I find Goku to be the worst character in this show

[Zagacious]

His characterization for most of the series has been pretty terrible, yes, but it's definitely improving. The main complaint I have recently is that almost every episode he's been in the ToP he was unnecessary to be involved in, except for the fight against Trio De Dangers there was almost no reason for him to get involved in any of the fights he was involved in, and it took away greatly from moments of other characters.

Yeah, that's the problem here. Goku is at his best (most fun to watch) when he's fighting someone who's legitimately at his level or above it. If he's sandbagging someone, then there is little point in seeing that scene unless it's in another context than him being in physical danger, because we know he isn't. Him training Caulifla is more interesting than him sandbagging Jimeze, Ribrianne, Maji Kayo, etc. But that is the problem, there isn't much going for his character besides fighting, and if he isn't learning from or teaching, or just effortlessly defeating people weaker than him, there's little interest to those fights of his that aren't against people like Jiren or Hit.

Toriyama honestly had it right in Z. Let the Z team do most of the fighting and bring Goku in to defeat the main antagonist. They don't have to keep him off screen as much as they did in Z, but he isn't needed in every single episode unless it actually pertains to him. Or just expand his character so that he does have more to do in the plot other than just fight and be way stronger than every one else.

No he didn’t. Goku was just a plot device in Z and turned the story into ‘wait for Goku’. Goku in Super is an actual character regardless if you like him or not and no one is going ‘where’s Goku’ every five minutes.

And I personally enjoy Goku fighting fodder like the Ginyu Force because Goku in general is fun to watch.

You're kidding right? Goku wasn't even involved in the fight with Roshi so obviously I wasn't talking about that fight. The other characters actually meant something and were contributing while 'waiting for Goku', Vegeta and Piccolo were able to contribute greatly on Namek, if it wasn't for them Goku would not have time to rest up and finish off Frieza. Calling the Ginyu force fodder is a complete joke I'm not even going to respond to that part, are Nappa and Dabura fodder too just because they can easily be beaten by Goku? This is just another example of people greatly exaggerating faults of DBZ to justify something wrong with DBS, and nothing more, DBZ is far from perfect, but there is zero validity to anything you are saying.

[HeroR]

That was the case for the freeza saga,nobody waited for him in the cell and buu saga even if he ended up saving the day anyways.
The reason nobody is going 'where's Goku' every 5 minutes its because he is almost everywhere and in every episode,he had no reason to be in Hit's episode for example but he was there anyways.
I don't understand how you enjoy seeing Goku fight someone who is no challenge to him,unless you liked the GT formula where Goku defeats everyone,the main villains and the minions.

He was in the Hit episode since Hit was being double team and they so did the 'wait for Goku' even in the Cell Saga with TFS making a joke about it. In the TOP, most of the characters don't even see Goku, like Gohan and Piccolo have only seen Goku twice outside of the special.

Because it's fun and GT's problem for me wasn't Goku, except for him being a kid. I mean, why do people enjoy Saitama when he one-shots everything. Same thing.

You're kidding right? Goku wasn't even involved in the fight with Roshi so obviously I wasn't talking about that fight. The other characters actually meant something and were contributing while 'waiting for Goku', Vegeta and Piccolo were able to contribute greatly on Namek, if it wasn't for them Goku would not have time to rest up and finish off Frieza. Calling the Ginyu force fodder is a complete joke I'm not even going to respond to that part, are Nappa and Dabura fodder too just because they can easily be beaten by Goku? This is just another example of people greatly exaggerating faults of DBZ to justify something wrong with DBS, and nothing more, DBZ is far from perfect, but there is zero validity to anything you are saying.

Not from a lack of trying and you said that Goku takes away from people in everything except U9.

Their way of 'contributing' was mostly dying like in the Saiyan Saga and not even taken down the foe in question, making things worse like Vegeta in the Cell and Buu Saga, or nothing at all. Namek is one of the few exceptions and even that went down the drain during the Freeze battle where everyone existed just to stall until Goku got out of the healing tank.

Yes, Nappa and Dabura are fodder, especially Dabura who was eating by Buu.

And guess what, this is my opinion. So the "zero validity to anything you are saying", is BS. You don't like what I'm saying, tough. Not everyone shares your view.

This also has nothing to do with "greatly exaggerating faults of DBZ to justify something wrong with Dragon Ball Super" since this is a flaw in Z that I despised and I am glad Super doesn't have it. So in this case, Super does something better than Z. You don't agree, fine, but don't go into the old 'Super fans using a flaw in Z to make Super better' that seems to be the go to defense for every time someone has a different opinion.

[Whatever]

He was in the Hit episode since Hit was being double team and they so did the 'wait for Goku' even in the Cell Saga with TFS making a joke about it. In the TOP, most of the characters don't even see Goku, like Gohan and Piccolo have only seen Goku twice outside of the special.

Because it's fun and GT's problem for me wasn't Goku, except for him being a kid. I mean, why do people enjoy Saitama when he one-shots everything. Same thing.

When?When Goku was defeated by android 19,nobody outside of the humans despaired,if anything Vegeta and Piccolo ended up stepping up instead.
When everybody was defeated by 17/18 again its not like anybody waited for him,instead both Vegeta and Piccolo went ahead and found their own ways to power up to deal with the situation.
As for the Hit episode,Goku still did not need to be there,one of Hit's own teamates should have sufficed,heck they could have just written Kale to be fully rested since she was there anyways.The quality of the episode dropped as soon as Goku entered the scene,it went from a strategy battle to Goku going Leeroy Jenkins on the string guy.

[Jigurashi]

He was in the Hit episode since Hit was being double team and they so did the 'wait for Goku' even in the Cell Saga with TFS making a joke about it. In the TOP, most of the characters don't even see Goku, like Gohan and Piccolo have only seen Goku twice outside of the special.

Because it's fun and GT's problem for me wasn't Goku, except for him being a kid. I mean, why do people enjoy Saitama when he one-shots everything. Same thing.

When?When Goku was defeated by android 19,nobody outside of the humans despaired,if anything Vegeta and Piccolo ended up stepping up instead.
When everybody was defeated by 17/18 again its not like anybody waited for him,instead both Vegeta and Piccolo went ahead and found their own ways to power up to deal with the situation.
As for the Hit episode,Goku still did not need to be there,one of Hit's own teamates should have sufficed,heck they could have just written Kale to be fully rested since she was there anyways.The quality of the episode dropped as soon as Goku entered the scene,it went from a strategy battle to Goku going Leeroy Jenkins on the string guy.

That's false. Vegeta couldn't do shit after his L to 18 until Goku recovered and essentially helped all the Saiyans upgrade at that point.

[HeroR]

When?When Goku was defeated by android 19,nobody outside of the humans despaired,if anything Vegeta and Piccolo ended up stepping up instead.
When everybody was defeated by 17/18 again its not like anybody waited for him,instead both Vegeta and Piccolo went ahead and found their own ways to power up to deal with the situation.
As for the Hit episode,Goku still did not need to be there,one of Hit's own teamates should have sufficed,heck they could have just written Kale to be fully rested since she was there anyways.The quality of the episode dropped as soon as Goku entered the scene,it went from a strategy battle to Goku going Leeroy Jenkins on the string guy.

That's false. Vegeta couldn't do shit after his L to 18 until Goku recovered and essentially helped all the Saiyans upgrade at that point.

Yeah. All Vegeta did after getting his ass kicked by 18 was mope on a cliff for several days. It was Goku that got his butt into gear by telling him about the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. Even more ironic, Piccolo could have given Vegeta and the others the same information since he merged with Kami who knew about the chamber, yet it took Goku coming out of a coma for anyone besides Piccolo to do anything.

For for the Hit episode, Kale may have power, but she lacks any real experience in battle. What made the battle in 104 interesting is how both Hit and Goku used their heads outside of Goku's one bull charged, so it wasn't just Goku going Leeroy Jenkins since that was only one thing he did, but for some reason that is all anyone remembers, compared to him using his Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan switch and being able to somewhat counter Dypso since he found his movement linear.

[Whatever]

When?When Goku was defeated by android 19,nobody outside of the humans despaired,if anything Vegeta and Piccolo ended up stepping up instead.
When everybody was defeated by 17/18 again its not like anybody waited for him,instead both Vegeta and Piccolo went ahead and found their own ways to power up to deal with the situation.
As for the Hit episode,Goku still did not need to be there,one of Hit's own teamates should have sufficed,heck they could have just written Kale to be fully rested since she was there anyways.The quality of the episode dropped as soon as Goku entered the scene,it went from a strategy battle to Goku going Leeroy Jenkins on the string guy.

That's false. Vegeta couldn't do shit after his L to 18 until Goku recovered and essentially helped all the Saiyans upgrade at that point.

Yeah. All Vegeta did after getting his ass kicked by 18 was mope on a cliff for several days. It was Goku that got his butt into gear by telling him about the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. Even more ironic, Piccolo could have given Vegeta and the others the same information since he merged with Kami who knew about the chamber, yet it took Goku coming out of a coma for anyone besides Piccolo to do anything.

For for the Hit episode, Kale may have power, but she lacks any real experience in battle. What made the battle in 104 interesting is how both Hit and Goku used their heads outside of Goku's one bull charged, so it wasn't just Goku going Leeroy Jenkins since that was only one thing he did, but for some reason that is all anyone remembers, compared to him using his Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan switch and being able to somewhat counter Dypso since he found his movement linear.

Goku helped Vegeta no doubt by telling him of the HTC but he was not thinking of Goku or how Goku would save them all like they did in the freeza saga.

As for the Hit episode,after Hit was saved from the double teaming they could have simply have Hit 1vs1 Dyspo from the beggining(there was not much point in Goku fighting Dyspo since he switched opponents with Hit anyways)while one of Hit's teamates handled the string user,Kale could bull charge him the same way Goku did.

[HeroR]

Goku helped Vegeta no doubt by telling him of the HTC but he was not thinking of Goku or how Goku would save them all like they did in the freeza saga.

As for the Hit episode,after Hit was saved from the double teaming they could have simply have Hit 1vs1 Dyspo from the beggining(there was not much point in Goku fighting Dyspo since he switched opponents with Hit anyways)while one of Hit's teamates handled the string user,Kale could bull charge him the same way Goku did.

He didn't just help. If Goku didn't tell him, Vegeta would have been utterly useless for the rest of the saga. It might as well as be Vegeta 'waiting for Goku' since he couldn't do anything until Goku acted.

What does Hit keeping Dypso have to do with the tag-team overall? Would the episode change drastically if Goku didn't fight Dypso? And Goku did more than just bull charge. Not sure why that is all anyone seems to remember Goku doing in that match. Even then, Kale could bull charge, but her lack of fighting experience can easily end with the string guy tying her limbs and throwing her out of the ring.

[Kanassa]

Goku helped Vegeta no doubt by telling him of the HTC but he was not thinking of Goku or how Goku would save them all like they did in the freeza saga.

As for the Hit episode,after Hit was saved from the double teaming they could have simply have Hit 1vs1 Dyspo from the beggining(there was not much point in Goku fighting Dyspo since he switched opponents with Hit anyways)while one of Hit's teamates handled the string user,Kale could bull charge him the same way Goku did.

He didn't just help. If Goku didn't tell him, Vegeta would have been utterly useless for the rest of the saga.

To be fair, outside of his one helpful moment at the end, Vegeta WAS completely useless for the saga. Him, like most of the characters of that arc after the twins arrive now that I think about it, was just there to artificially pad the plot until Goku and Hogan were ready to start.

[HeroR]

To be fair, outside of his one helpful moment at the end, Vegeta WAS completely useless for the saga. Him, like most of the characters of that arc after the twins arrive now that I think about it, was just there to artificially pad the plot until Goku and Hogan were ready to start.

I was trying to be nice, but in truth, everything would have worked better if Vegeta was left out after his defeat to 18. Despite Goku's blood knight nature, he would never allowed Cell to eat someone to become complete, especially when Krillin was in the area. Honestly, the only real good thing Vegeta did in that saga was save Goku from 19, and Piccolo could have done that.

This is the primary reason why I hate Cell Saga Vegeta.

[Whatever]

Goku helped Vegeta no doubt by telling him of the HTC but he was not thinking of Goku or how Goku would save them all like they did in the freeza saga.

As for the Hit episode,after Hit was saved from the double teaming they could have simply have Hit 1vs1 Dyspo from the beggining(there was not much point in Goku fighting Dyspo since he switched opponents with Hit anyways)while one of Hit's teamates handled the string user,Kale could bull charge him the same way Goku did.

He didn't just help. If Goku didn't tell him, Vegeta would have been utterly useless for the rest of the saga. It might as well as be Vegeta 'waiting for Goku' since he couldn't do anything until Goku acted.

What does Hit keeping Dypso have to do with the tag-team overall? Would the episode change drastically if Goku didn't fight Dypso? And Goku did more than just bull charge. Not sure why that is all anyone seems to remember Goku doing in that match. Even then, Kale could bull charge, but her lack of fighting experience can easily end with the string guy tying her limbs and throwing her out of the ring.

If we think it that way,we may as well say Goku was 'waiting for Trunks' since he would be useless/dead in the whole saga if not for him.

It does matter because after Hit figured out Dyspo,it was only a matter of time(a short amount at that) before he ringed him out,so Kale(or any other of Hit's teamates)only had to buy a small amount of time fighting the string guy before Hit eliminated him as well at the worst case scenario.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Goku helped Vegeta no doubt by telling him of the HTC but he was not thinking of Goku or how Goku would save them all like they did in the freeza saga.

As for the Hit episode,after Hit was saved from the double teaming they could have simply have Hit 1vs1 Dyspo from the beggining(there was not much point in Goku fighting Dyspo since he switched opponents with Hit anyways)while one of Hit's teamates handled the string user,Kale could bull charge him the same way Goku did.

He didn't just help. If Goku didn't tell him, Vegeta would have been utterly useless for the rest of the saga.

To be fair, outside of his one helpful moment at the end, Vegeta WAS completely useless for the saga. Him, like most of the characters of that arc after the twins arrive now that I think about it, was just there to artificially pad the plot until Goku and Hogan were ready to start.

And the stupid thing about all that is, Toriyama went a massively convoluted and contrived way of getting rid of Goku in the first place, we got this absolutely stupid heart disease thing in the future whatever Trunks gives him a cure but Goku doesn't take the cure as nothing is wrong with him at the time (Trunks literally risked his life to get the cure to Goku and most of everyone in Trunks timeline is dead yet Goku doesn't take this situation seriously at all "nothing wrong me" he says). And then as soon as Goku starts fighting he then starts to feel the heart disease, what a f**cking coincidence? Wow. Not the day before, not even an hour before as soon as he starts fighting!! Whoa.
And then the cure takes literally forever to take effect thus Goku is out of commission for a long time so we can have fake tension and have the characters as HeroR says to cry out for Goku ever 5 mins "Oh if only Goku were here". "Man if only Goku were here".

Man that arc is Toriyama at his absolute worse, jeez.

[BlueBasilisk]

And the stupid thing about all that is, Toriyama went a massively convoluted and contrived way of getting rid of Goku in the first place, we got this absolutely stupid heart disease thing in the future whatever Trunks gives him a cure but Goku doesn't take the cure as nothing is wrong with him at the time (Trunks literally risked his life to get the cure to Goku and most of everyone in Trunks timeline is dead yet Goku doesn't take this situation seriously at all "nothing wrong me" he says). And then as soon as Goku starts fighting he then starts to feel the heart disease, what a f**cking coincidence? Wow. Not the day before, not even an hour before as soon as he starts fighting!! Whoa.
And then the cure takes literally forever to take effect thus Goku is out of commission for a long time so we can have fake tension and have the characters as HeroR says to cry out for Goku ever 5 mins "Oh if only Goku were here". "Man if only Goku were here".

Man that arc is Toriyama at his absolute worse, jeez.

The whole Future timeline is a bad case of "everyone needs Goku" even though it makes no sense at all for the Future to be in that shape given the rest of the Cell saga and the Buu saga. Gohan fights the Androids for 13 years but can't even match half of 17's full power, but one year of training with Goku as a child and he outpaces them by an incredible margin? Same with Trunks and Vegeta. Neither of them can fight the Androids in the Future but when Goku introduces them to the Hyperbolic Time Chamber the Androids are suddenly left in the dust even though Trunks was being ignored by Vegeta for most of that year.

[Kanassa]

And the stupid thing about all that is, Toriyama went a massively convoluted and contrived way of getting rid of Goku in the first place, we got this absolutely stupid heart disease thing in the future whatever Trunks gives him a cure but Goku doesn't take the cure as nothing is wrong with him at the time (Trunks literally risked his life to get the cure to Goku and most of everyone in Trunks timeline is dead yet Goku doesn't take this situation seriously at all "nothing wrong me" he says). And then as soon as Goku starts fighting he then starts to feel the heart disease, what a f**cking coincidence? Wow. Not the day before, not even an hour before as soon as he starts fighting!! Whoa.
And then the cure takes literally forever to take effect thus Goku is out of commission for a long time so we can have fake tension and have the characters as HeroR says to cry out for Goku ever 5 mins "Oh if only Goku were here". "Man if only Goku were here".

Man that arc is Toriyama at his absolute worse, jeez.

The whole Future timeline is a bad case of "everyone needs Goku" even though it makes no sense at all for the Future to be in that shape given the rest of the Cell saga and the Buu saga. Gohan fights the Androids for 13 years but can't even match half of 17's full power, but one year of training with Goku as a child and he outpaces them by an incredible margin? Same with Trunks and Vegeta. Neither of them can fight the Androids in the Future but when Goku introduces them to the Hyperbolic Time Chamber the Androids are suddenly left in the dust even though Trunks was being ignored by Vegeta for most of that year.

To be fair, this is KIND of explained (If I'm remembering right); the reason Goku and Gohan grew so powerful in the chamber is because of their training method, Vegeta and Co were stunted at that point because they were 'training the wrong way'. In the future timeline, Gohan never learns the way he's supposed to train to increase his Super Saiyan power the best way he can.

Though now thinking about Future 17 and 18's power, doesn't Super kind of bring in a plot hole; we see how much more powerful 17 has become after a few years in the main timeline, yet Trunks is able to easily handle him after a much longer stretch of time has passed in that timeline?

[Bardo117]

Goku is a good buy, and a good person but in a childish way. Remember, he's technically intellectually disabled because of his accident.

[BlueBasilisk]

And the stupid thing about all that is, Toriyama went a massively convoluted and contrived way of getting rid of Goku in the first place, we got this absolutely stupid heart disease thing in the future whatever Trunks gives him a cure but Goku doesn't take the cure as nothing is wrong with him at the time (Trunks literally risked his life to get the cure to Goku and most of everyone in Trunks timeline is dead yet Goku doesn't take this situation seriously at all "nothing wrong me" he says). And then as soon as Goku starts fighting he then starts to feel the heart disease, what a f**cking coincidence? Wow. Not the day before, not even an hour before as soon as he starts fighting!! Whoa.
And then the cure takes literally forever to take effect thus Goku is out of commission for a long time so we can have fake tension and have the characters as HeroR says to cry out for Goku ever 5 mins "Oh if only Goku were here". "Man if only Goku were here".

Man that arc is Toriyama at his absolute worse, jeez.

The whole Future timeline is a bad case of "everyone needs Goku" even though it makes no sense at all for the Future to be in that shape given the rest of the Cell saga and the Buu saga. Gohan fights the Androids for 13 years but can't even match half of 17's full power, but one year of training with Goku as a child and he outpaces them by an incredible margin? Same with Trunks and Vegeta. Neither of them can fight the Androids in the Future but when Goku introduces them to the Hyperbolic Time Chamber the Androids are suddenly left in the dust even though Trunks was being ignored by Vegeta for most of that year.

To be fair, this is KIND of explained (If I'm remembering right); the reason Goku and Gohan grew so powerful in the chamber is because of their training method, Vegeta and Co were stunted at that point because they were 'training the wrong way'. In the future timeline, Gohan never learns the way he's supposed to train to increase his Super Saiyan power the best way he can.

Though now thinking about Future 17 and 18's power, doesn't Super kind of bring in a plot hole; we see how much more powerful 17 has become after a few years in the main timeline, yet Trunks is able to easily handle him after a much longer stretch of time has passed in that timeline?

But even without finding out they were training the wrong way, Trunks and Vegeta surpassed the Androids with Grades 2 and 3. They were strong enough to handle Semi-Perfect Cell who was well beyond 17 and 18.

As for that last part, the Future Androids were probably like Frieza and never trained because they didn't need to, so they never got any stronger. Present 17 says he trains a lot.

[HeroR]

Goku helped Vegeta no doubt by telling him of the HTC but he was not thinking of Goku or how Goku would save them all like they did in the freeza saga.

As for the Hit episode,after Hit was saved from the double teaming they could have simply have Hit 1vs1 Dyspo from the beggining(there was not much point in Goku fighting Dyspo since he switched opponents with Hit anyways)while one of Hit's teamates handled the string user,Kale could bull charge him the same way Goku did.

He didn't just help. If Goku didn't tell him, Vegeta would have been utterly useless for the rest of the saga. It might as well as be Vegeta 'waiting for Goku' since he couldn't do anything until Goku acted.

What does Hit keeping Dypso have to do with the tag-team overall? Would the episode change drastically if Goku didn't fight Dypso? And Goku did more than just bull charge. Not sure why that is all anyone seems to remember Goku doing in that match. Even then, Kale could bull charge, but her lack of fighting experience can easily end with the string guy tying her limbs and throwing her out of the ring.

If we think it that way,we may as well say Goku was 'waiting for Trunks' since he would be useless/dead in the whole saga if not for him.

It does matter because after Hit figured out Dyspo,it was only a matter of time(a short amount at that) before he ringed him out,so Kale(or any other of Hit's teamates)only had to buy a small amount of time fighting the string guy before Hit eliminated him as well at the worst case scenario.

That isn’t really same because that’s a different timeline. And everyone died in that time too, so they were still useless without Goku.

Goku joined in because Hit got double team, not him figuring Dyspo or not. And this is assuming that Hit’s teammates could handle the strong guy since he wasn’t a pushover.

[gohan_black]

i find him too. he keep getting all those power up gifts because hes the protoaganist and thats annoying.

[BWri]

His characterization for most of the series has been pretty terrible, yes, but it's definitely improving. The main complaint I have recently is that almost every episode he's been in the ToP he was unnecessary to be involved in, except for the fight against Trio De Dangers there was almost no reason for him to get involved in any of the fights he was involved in, and it took away greatly from moments of other characters.

Yeah, that's the problem here. Goku is at his best (most fun to watch) when he's fighting someone who's legitimately at his level or above it. If he's sandbagging someone, then there is little point in seeing that scene unless it's in another context than him being in physical danger, because we know he isn't. Him training Caulifla is more interesting than him sandbagging Jimeze, Ribrianne, Maji Kayo, etc. But that is the problem, there isn't much going for his character besides fighting, and if he isn't learning from or teaching, or just effortlessly defeating people weaker than him, there's little interest to those fights of his that aren't against people like Jiren or Hit.

Toriyama honestly had it right in Z. Let the Z team do most of the fighting and bring Goku in to defeat the main antagonist. They don't have to keep him off screen as much as they did in Z, but he isn't needed in every single episode unless it actually pertains to him. Or just expand his character so that he does have more to do in the plot other than just fight and be way stronger than every one else.

No he didn’t. Goku was just a plot device in Z and turned the story into ‘wait for Goku’. Goku in Super is an actual character regardless if you like him or not and no one is going ‘where’s Goku’ every five minutes.

I can agree that Super is doing better with tying him to the plot, but it still comes off as forced much of the time, like just an excuse to put him on the screen, especially in this tournament. But the problem is that when he's there, his motivation for and joyous mood from simply fighting strong opponents doesn't always fit what's going on and often undermines the tone that's attempting to be set by everyone else. Goku's best moments in the Black arc (for me) were when got upset when Zamasu used his body to kill ChiChi and Goten or when he pushed past his limits to critically injure Zamasu on his own. He was overall solid in that arc, but was still kinda just there as he is in most arcs.

And I personally enjoy Goku fighting fodder like the Ginyu Force because Goku in general is fun to watch.

I addressed that. "or just effortlessly defeating people weaker than him". Super hasn't been doing that. They've been treating these people he's fighting as genuine threats to him, padding out time while we, the audience, know that he's sandbagging because he's usually using lesser transformations or holding back.

[TheZFighter]

Well unfortunately for all of you haters Goku is the man.

[TekTheNinja]

Well unfortunately for all of you haters Goku is the man.

This doesn't add to the conversation in the slightest.

I mean, why do people enjoy Saitama when he one-shots everything. Same thing.

Saitama isn't a good example for your cause, dude. One Punch Man quite certainly follows a "wait for Saitama" formula that helps make the show interesting, along with the character interactions and comedy. It's the reason for amazing moments like the heroes' struggle against the sea king, especially with Mumen Rider. This is the very same reasoning we have some of DBZ's best moments, and DBS doesn't have that, instead opting for Goku fighting weaker fighters who he exerts little effort for, while the other cast members could have much more interesting fights with them if they were given the chance.