Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

HeroR
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8306
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:28 pm

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by HeroR » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:18 pm

Totamo wrote: The manga stands on its own as a punchout one shot like what Toriyama used to do back in the days. These plotlines aren't meant for arcs and Toyo knows that.


The anime stands on its own as entertainment value .


The manga does use more logic and things tend to make more sense, that we don't need to have a thousand videos and posts arguing about something.

The anime uses more emotion and things tend to be more important even if they really didn't need to.



You can't use either because both should stand on their own to feat and what we have is: 1 story with logic and no heart and 1 story with heart and no logic all base of a vague plotline and edited by a man who simple does not care.
Not really since Toriyama didn’t skip plot points or at least not to the extent of the Super manga. And who says what plots are meant for arcs?

People keep saying the manga makes more sense, I can never agree with that. And most people don’t argued about the manga because no one reads it compared to the anime.

And saying that the anime has no logic is really just nonsense. And you keep saying Toriyama doesn’t care when he clearly does, otherwise he wouldn’t be doing shit.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

Blade249
Newbie
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:03 am

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by Blade249 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:37 pm

gammabeast21 wrote:
Blade249 wrote:
gammabeast21 wrote:
3. Freeza negotiations were treated as a gag and remember by looking at manga on its own the last time we saw Freeza was the shitty movie. Remember how hateful everyone was when we first heard Freeza was coming back for the tournament, but anime converted the fan base into Freeza fan boys
This may be off topic but I don't understand why people like frieza being here. He doesn't do much and he kinda takes away the spotlight from other characters who needed it like cabbe.
I don't understand how does he not do much but at the same time takes the spotlight from other characters. Only culprit of taking too much spotlight is Goku. Freeza only had 1 dedicated episode in ToP so far. Just like Cabbe. Plus, Freeza shared his episode with Gohan.

People enjoy Freeza being here because he is a wild card. He is not a Z-fighter. He has his own agenda and so his presence provides a new angle of tension that Jiren (at least the anime version) does not provide.
What I meant was more like cabbe was treated like garbage during the build up and when he finally starts to do great things, frieza stepped in and took that away. And I'm not sure if you can count the frost elimination because gohan and frieza faked the fight.

User avatar
LightBing
I Live Here
Posts: 3848
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:47 am

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by LightBing » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:40 pm

HeroR wrote:Not really since Toriyama didn’t skip plot points or at least not to the extent of the Super manga. And who says what plots are meant for arcs?

People keep saying the manga makes more sense, I can never agree with that. And most people don’t argued about the manga because no one reads it compared to the anime.

And saying that the anime has no logic is really just nonsense. And you keep saying Toriyama doesn’t care when he clearly does, otherwise he wouldn’t be doing shit.
Which plot points did the manga skip since the Zamasu arc? Essential plot points not going 3 times to the Future buffers.

The logic bit is mostly about power levels, the anime is all over the place in this regards with even some blatant contradictions. The rest is nit-picking, back-tingles for example doesn't have anything about making sense it's brand new information that doesn't contradict anything. Or something like Goku learning the Hakai, there's already many examples of Goku learning techniques exactly and there's absolutely a huge widow for Goku to have seen it.

The anime does have silly things like Trunks learning the Mafuba in 5 minutes while showing us Goku and Tenshinhan(in the Piccolo Daimao arc) needing a whole day with a bunch of failures. That does fall in a not making sense category, more specifically disregarding in-universe rules for a gag or to force a character into the spotlight.

User avatar
Totamo
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1885
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:24 pm

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by Totamo » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:47 pm

HeroR wrote:
Totamo wrote: The manga stands on its own as a punchout one shot like what Toriyama used to do back in the days. These plotlines aren't meant for arcs and Toyo knows that.


The anime stands on its own as entertainment value .


The manga does use more logic and things tend to make more sense, that we don't need to have a thousand videos and posts arguing about something.

The anime uses more emotion and things tend to be more important even if they really didn't need to.



You can't use either because both should stand on their own to feat and what we have is: 1 story with logic and no heart and 1 story with heart and no logic all base of a vague plotline and edited by a man who simple does not care.
Not really since Toriyama didn’t skip plot points or at least not to the extent of the Super manga. And who says what plots are meant for arcs?

People keep saying the manga makes more sense, I can never agree with that. And most people don’t argued about the manga because no one reads it compared to the anime.

And saying that the anime has no logic is really just nonsense. And you keep saying Toriyama doesn’t care when he clearly does, otherwise he wouldn’t be doing shit.
I was talking about his one shots, not dragon balls and yes these arcs feel like they were meant for movies, there isn't a lot of story here.

The manga makes more sense because we don't have to ask as many questions as we do in the anime and what we argue about in the anime isn't in the manga.

There isn't any logic in the anime when you have a busted power scale, characters inconsistent in their own arcs and rarely any explanations, whether you agree with any of that, all of these have been numerous and continuous complaints that you have to blind not to see some truth to them.

User avatar
dbgtFO
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 7888
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:07 pm
Contact:

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by dbgtFO » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:46 am

This chapter certainly felt like the "just following plot points" critique was justified.
On that account the anime did better with a lot of cool content instead of it just being off screen, as was also typical of the original manga.
As I have always thought the franchise simply works best, when it's animated. I don't think Toyotaro can convince me otherwise no matter what he does, because even Toriyama couldn't.

blackbewhite2k7
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 75
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 10:17 pm

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by blackbewhite2k7 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:30 pm


User avatar
Lord Beerus
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 21389
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:20 pm
Location: A temple on a giant tree
Contact:

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:53 pm

I found the "recruitment" portion of the Universal Survival arc to be vastly better handled in the anime. I liked the manga providing a bit more expansion on Planet Sadala and I enjoy the more grounded and subtle approach with Cabba, Caulifla and Kale's character. But I found the anime handled everything else better. The world building (by providing a perspective of other universes and their fighters taking part in the Tournament Of Power), the payoff for how strong Gohan, Piccolo and Freeza had gotten, the character interactions between Freeza, Goku, Vegeta and the rest of the cast and the fights in general.

User avatar
JazzMazz
I Live Here
Posts: 2217
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:28 am
Location: Mordor, the Borg cube and Voldemort's lair all at the same time in the year 199X

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by JazzMazz » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:32 am

Lord Beerus wrote:I found the "recruitment" portion of the Universal Survival arc to be vastly better handled in the anime. I liked the manga providing a bit more expansion on Planet Sadala and I enjoy the more grounded and subtle approach with Cabba, Caulifla and Kale's character. But I found the anime handled everything else better. The world building (by providing a perspective of other universes and their fighters taking part in the Tournament Of Power), the payoff for how strong Gohan, Piccolo and Freeza had gotten, the character interactions between Freeza, Goku, Vegeta and the rest of the cast and the fights in general.
While I certainly agree that the anime did a better job of expanding upon the points and storylines established during in the anime, I feel the manga is a better connected and structured story, and doesn't feel as episodic as the anime has felt throughout the entire arc.

User avatar
LightBing
I Live Here
Posts: 3848
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:47 am

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by LightBing » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:47 pm

Let's talk about the recruitment phase. The anime part was bloated and misleading with some cool moments, the manga was concise and straight to the point.

The anime approach was to give each character their little episode(s) which I appreciate. The delivery and the lack of pay off on many characters was awful unfortunately.
  • Tenshinhan - He was the one who received less care in the anime, basically a tidbit how he now has a school and that's it. Muten Roshi does more than him in that episode! Basically filler.
  • Muten Roshi - His character arc revolves around supressing his perversion. This wasn't pretty to watch and for some reason given far too much screen time. All this for a 10 second moment against an opponent who was unimportant.
  • Kuririn - He was hyped a bit and had that taiyoken x100. The hype didn't really amount to anything but since it wasn't over the top no harm was done. Yeah, it was okay.
  • #18 and #17 - I don't remember anything specific about #18, pretty sure it's about the same in both mediums. Likewise for #17 except the anime adds that Space Poacher episode which was pretty weak and ultimately worthless.
  • Gohan - An exaggerate amount of importance was given to Gohan for no apparent reason. It was the typical Toei hard on for the character. My only problem is the leader take, that was laughable. He never was the leader and providing tactics a couple of times doesn't make him one, no matter how many times the writers make the other characters say it.
  • Freeza - The only one where the anime surpasses the manga. Freeza is supposed to be a threat and they make him so, even better they keep it up later during the tournament; uneasiness always surrounds the character actions. This all wrapped in a little pre-tournament plot against Universe 7. Well done.
  • Mr.Boo - Misleading pure and simple. Why?
  • Other Universes - Most were like with Mr.Boo pure baits and waste of time. Didn't they know which characters were going to be important? The rest didn't do much, it was basically glimpses with the exception of the Saiyan girls.
The manga felt straight out of the original manga. Introduced who it needs to introduce and told us which ones got stronger or not. That's it and if you want more wait for the tournament.
I would give a bit more to Gohan since he's been absent from the manga and needed a bit more than an off-screen rehabilitation with some words of hype from Vegeta at the end.
The Saiyan girls and Jiren are also better so far than in the anime. Specially Kale.

I vastly prefer the manga here, there's just so much crap the anime threw at us for no reason. I bet this will be extremely noticeable on re-watch now that we have foresight.

User avatar
OLKv3
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1820
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 12:39 pm

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by OLKv3 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:00 pm

The only time the manga skipped plot points were BoG and skipping RoF. They haven't done it since
Just because your favorite anime segment didn't make it to the manga doesn't mean they skipped important plot points. They covered everything they needed of the plot, and if someone only reads the manga they won't be confused at all
Logic like this is like saying the original manga is bad because it's missing all of the extras the anime put in during the 1 year period in the Saiyan arc. Or how the OG manga didn't show any of Vegeta's training during the 3 year gap before the Androids, or even showed how he became SS
Toyo is handling the plot detail aspect just like the original manga did. The anime exists for all the extra things, like it always did. The manga only has time to cover the main plot.
That said, building up Gohan's return with a cliffhanging ending and then skipping the entirety of it in the next chapter was questionable writing. Chapter ending would've been better served with them finding out Boo can't join

User avatar
Brettjr25
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:54 pm

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by Brettjr25 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:22 pm

Now that Beerus has stated in the anime that only gods of destruction can use destruction powers and it became an important plot point, how is the manga going to handle it since it already had ssg Goku use it or a certain level of it? Or is the manga giving away details that will later be used in the anime like how it had goku transform back to ssg in an earlier arc instead of recently like the anime. Is what we're seeing in the manga foreshadowing Goku fighting Jiren or Toppo with GoD abilities? Will Goku realize he has access to the GoD powers in his more pure deity form than ssb? That could work and would be a throwback to genki dama not working with SS. Plus it wouldnt make sense (seemingly) for the manga to mess up something like that when it is aware of the events that transpire in the finale. The manga introduced us to the fact that Toppo was a God of destruction candidate immediately. So it cant simply be oversight.

User avatar
sangofe
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 7535
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 3:39 pm

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by sangofe » Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:50 am

Lord Beerus wrote:I found the "recruitment" portion of the Universal Survival arc to be vastly better handled in the anime. I liked the manga providing a bit more expansion on Planet Sadala and I enjoy the more grounded and subtle approach with Cabba, Caulifla and Kale's character. But I found the anime handled everything else better. The world building (by providing a perspective of other universes and their fighters taking part in the Tournament Of Power), the payoff for how strong Gohan, Piccolo and Freeza had gotten, the character interactions between Freeza, Goku, Vegeta and the rest of the cast and the fights in general.
I really hated these episodes in the anime before it got to Freeza. Garlic Jr. bad for me.

User avatar
Zephyr
I Live Here
Posts: 4021
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:20 pm

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by Zephyr » Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:08 am

The only thing the anime did that I wish the manga had, for the recruitment, was Freeza's. The manga's take provides an funny unexpected reveal, but the anime's established Freeza's growth as a martial artist. Ribrianne is also weirdly missing.

The manga handled the Pride Troopers' introduction better, giving Jiren some actual personality, and giving a hint of what his motivations are. It kept things simple for the U6 Saiyans, and didn't immediately show the readers that Kale is not!Broly; something that could be a cool twist. What the anime showed of Universes 3 and 10 involved characters ultimately unimportant in the actual tournament, serving to give set up with no payoff; maybe set up Obuni and Paparoni instead? It'd be nice to make the emotional poignancy of Universe 10's erasure more than fleeting.

Gohan was given undue focus during the pre-tournament phase, and his cheerleading squad was completely lead astray, and naturally confused when he didn't really give the 10/10 performance he seemingly promised; Piccolo whipping him into shape is all we needed to expect the performance he gave. Roshi was given needless setup for what he did - being the underdog getting by due to experience and technique variety, and that's all stuff we've known about him since the franchise's second story arc.
Last edited by Zephyr on Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Hawk9211
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 812
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:23 am

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by Hawk9211 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:18 am

Lord Beerus wrote:I found the "recruitment" portion of the Universal Survival arc to be vastly better handled in the anime. I liked the manga providing a bit more expansion on Planet Sadala and I enjoy the more grounded and subtle approach with Cabba, Caulifla and Kale's character. But I found the anime handled everything else better. The world building (by providing a perspective of other universes and their fighters taking part in the Tournament Of Power), the payoff for how strong Gohan, Piccolo and Freeza had gotten, the character interactions between Freeza, Goku, Vegeta and the rest of the cast and the fights in general.
I really disagree about that.Yes,I am still salty about ribriane,nigrisshi and narirama.U11 and U6 were handled better in the manga.
Why power levels are important?
The genre and roots of dragon ball

User avatar
dbgtFO
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 7888
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:07 pm
Contact:

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by dbgtFO » Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:16 am

Brettjr25 wrote:Now that Beerus has stated in the anime that only gods of destruction can use destruction powers and it became an important plot point, how is the manga going to handle it since it already had ssg Goku use it or a certain level of it? Or is the manga giving away details that will later be used in the anime like how it had goku transform back to ssg in an earlier arc instead of recently like the anime. Is what we're seeing in the manga foreshadowing Goku fighting Jiren or Toppo with GoD abilities? Will Goku realize he has access to the GoD powers in his more pure deity form than ssb? That could work and would be a throwback to genki dama not working with SS. Plus it wouldnt make sense (seemingly) for the manga to mess up something like that when it is aware of the events that transpire in the finale. The manga introduced us to the fact that Toppo was a God of destruction candidate immediately. So it cant simply be oversight.
It was SSB Goku, not SSG.
I wonder if the manga will even have a transformed Toppo with Destruction abilities. We will just to wait till October to see, I think.

Cipher
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6333
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:54 pm
Location: Nagano
Contact:

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by Cipher » Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:53 am

I'd just be echoing Zephyr and others above, but I do feel the manga's take is going to reveal the stronger pacing by the end—with the expectation this moves in the vein of a brisk one-off just as Toyotaro's previous two arcs did. Freeza's the only one for whom I think the amine's version might do the story more justice.

Re: Missing Ribrianne: The tournament is a fine place to introduce the Kamikazes' transformations. It was a bit odd in the anime that we essentially got two introductions to their gag.

User avatar
FortuneSSJ
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5812
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:07 pm

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by FortuneSSJ » Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:39 pm

Talking about Jiren's/Toppo's revelations, the anime did it much better.

The manga says right away Toppo is a GoD candidate and that Jiren is stronger than a GoD, while the anime waited for the right time to reveal those details and it worked great as a shock effect both times.
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.

User avatar
Dragon Wukong
Regular
Posts: 684
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:06 am

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by Dragon Wukong » Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:47 pm

Personally, I feel like 60% sure Toppo won't transform in the manga. The anime seems to treat the transformation as Toppo's usage of godly ki, directly tying it to his abilities as a GoD, while the manga has Toppo use godly ki immediately to reach SSB+-tier. Like I'm thinking the draft says something along the lines of "Toppo can use godly ki to enhance his strength" and this is just Toei's interpretation of what we saw in chapter 29.

Also, I don't think the anime really contradicts what the manga did in giving Goku hakai. Toppo is a "God of Destruction" right now, but he seemingly doesn't have the actual position still, with Belmod still referring to him as a candidate, albeit one who awoke their powers. Other than the more varied usage of Destruction, I don't see many differences between what Toppo's doing now and what Goku did in the Black arc in the manga.

User avatar
RedHeat
Regular
Posts: 651
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 11:55 pm

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by RedHeat » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:07 pm

I honestly think Toriyama's outline for the ToP/Pre-ToP must be extremely barren, more so than the rest of the series. There are such huge differences between the manga and anime arcs that it's not even funny.

I wouldn't be surprised if they both ended differently either.
Feels over Reals.

User avatar
Miracles
I Live Here
Posts: 3745
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:31 am

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by Miracles » Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:00 pm

OLKv3 wrote:The only time the manga skipped plot points were BoG and skipping RoF. They haven't done it since
Just because your favorite anime segment didn't make it to the manga doesn't mean they skipped important plot points. They covered everything they needed of the plot, and if someone only reads the manga they won't be confused at all
Logic like this is like saying the original manga is bad because it's missing all of the extras the anime put in during the 1 year period in the Saiyan arc. Or how the OG manga didn't show any of Vegeta's training during the 3 year gap before the Androids, or even showed how he became SS
Toyo is handling the plot detail aspect just like the original manga did. The anime exists for all the extra things, like it always did. The manga only has time to cover the main plot.
That said, building up Gohan's return with a cliffhanging ending and then skipping the entirety of it in the next chapter was questionable writing. Chapter ending would've been better served with them finding out Boo can't join
The manga can just reference Gohan's training with small flashback panel bubbles during the TOP.
Just like they did with ROF's conclusion, we saw a quick rewind of what happened in the anime in the manga.

Everything else you stated is spot on.

Post Reply