Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by Bergamo » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:48 am

reecehoward wrote:
1345521 wrote:
reecehoward wrote:The has good art and captures Toriyama's style a bit better, but...As an artist myself, I can tell you that it isn't really better. While Toyo captures the signature style of the series better, he has a VERY crude understanding of anatomy, if any at all. It's no secret that he sucks at drawing necks, but beyond that he needs to really study proportions and basic anatomy, as I've noticed plenty of his illustrations where his arms were in impossible positions or when he draws incredibly small torsos with ridiculously long legs. These are easy fixes that can bring the best out of his talent, but as of now his art comes off as someone who EXCLUSIVELY draws dragonball and never ventured into the fundamentals. I know, because I used to be that dude.

The manga has a bit more consistency overall than the anime, but not by enough in my opinion to give it the edge that people give it credit for. It should be easy to keep a story consistent if not much at all is happening...

The storytelling is a toss up. The anime does too much at times, while the manga does too little. The best product would take the best parts of each's method of storytelling and world building. Toyo's exposition with Toei's characterization, and a combination of both approaches to the action scenes would be DOPE!

The anime, in my opinion, has the edge if and only due to it being an overall more entertaining product. What I mean by that is, for as "logical" as the manga tries to be, that's never been the reason I personally followed Dragonball all of these years. The hype moments and characters are what made the series a juggernaut, and there's so little of that in the manga that whatever positives it does has, it doesn't grab my attention. I expect to at bare minimum get some moments that I can remember with fondness. I get that with the anime in most if it's arcs...even the filler. I only remember like 3 things from the entire manga that could be considered HYPE: Goku using hakai, Kale's rampage, and Roshi vs Jiren. Sadly, I'm not fond of any of those moments. The anime: Goku vs Beerus nearly destroying the universe, Goku using Ssb Kaioken x10, Gohan vs Watagashi, Goku Black killing Future Bulma, Goku's epic rampage against Black abd Zamasu, Future Trunks transformation into SsRage(can't deny that it was cool when it first happened), Goku Black's first transformation into Rose, Vegeta finally get to beat the tar out of Black, Everything about Merged Zamasu, Father Son Galick Gun, Goku putting so much power into a Kamehameha that his arms go limp, Zamasu becoming one with a timeline, Zeno obliterating said timelime...all of this before ToP.

Other than that, the two versions are more or less equal to me. I lean to the anime for having more standout moments.
I've seen your soloquy of why you like the anime over the manga a lot on the youtube community and even here, you don't need to tell me, again. And it's funny you critize the manga art but don't even adress why the anime art is as good. Manga art isn't perfect, but it's far better then the anime's. The character are drawn much more on model in the manga then in the anime, plus toyotaro action scenes in the fight far surpass the art of the anime. DB heroes manga is art that more resembles the anime.
The anime's art is mostly average. You have a few horrid episodes and a few spectacular episodes sprinkled in that. Overall, it's average. Not too bad, but not too good either. The manga has the style down, but the fundamentals are not there. I'll have to find time to round up some images and highlight the things I'm talking about. Everyone knows the Toyo neck issue though.lol Not saying his art is bad, I prefer it to the anime overall, but there are things that bugs me when it comes to his anatomy. So while I think he captures the style better, he needs some work on his basic anatomy, and as a fellow artist I'm not necessarily blown away by his art when I see those types of "rookie" mistakes considering he's at working at a professional level.
You have to admit Toyotaro absolutely nails certain aspects, such as shading and simplicity. I can't tell you how often I wonder what is even going on while reading another manga like JoJo. Toyotaro has the issue of cluttering panels with text boxes, but his art is very easy to follow.
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Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by reecehoward » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:20 am

Bergamo wrote:
reecehoward wrote:
1345521 wrote: I've seen your soloquy of why you like the anime over the manga a lot on the youtube community and even here, you don't need to tell me, again. And it's funny you critize the manga art but don't even adress why the anime art is as good. Manga art isn't perfect, but it's far better then the anime's. The character are drawn much more on model in the manga then in the anime, plus toyotaro action scenes in the fight far surpass the art of the anime. DB heroes manga is art that more resembles the anime.
The anime's art is mostly average. You have a few horrid episodes and a few spectacular episodes sprinkled in that. Overall, it's average. Not too bad, but not too good either. The manga has the style down, but the fundamentals are not there. I'll have to find time to round up some images and highlight the things I'm talking about. Everyone knows the Toyo neck issue though.lol Not saying his art is bad, I prefer it to the anime overall, but there are things that bugs me when it comes to his anatomy. So while I think he captures the style better, he needs some work on his basic anatomy, and as a fellow artist I'm not necessarily blown away by his art when I see those types of "rookie" mistakes considering he's at working at a professional level.
You have to admit Toyotaro absolutely nails certain aspects, such as shading and simplicity. I can't tell you how often I wonder what is even going on while reading another manga like JoJo. Toyotaro has the issue of cluttering panels with text boxes, but his art is very easy to follow.
That goes more into the Dragonball style itself, rather than that being something inherently Toyotaro. He is good at capturing that style. All I'm saying is that him gaining understanding of the basics and fundamentals would solidify his position. Trust me, you will see a difference if and when that happens. He'd be a straight up beast.

I definitely understand about JoJo. While he actually does know his shit(he intentionally draws weird and exaggerated poses), he can go overboard with his art sometimes. Very few mangaka have mastered what Toriyama had: simplicity. This is why Hirohiko Araki holds Toriyama in the highest of regard, even though he is a legend himself. Read his book about the fundamentals of creating manga. It gives you great insight and perspective about the entire craft.

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Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by PFM18 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:55 am

Bergamo wrote:
reecehoward wrote:
1345521 wrote: I've seen your soloquy of why you like the anime over the manga a lot on the youtube community and even here, you don't need to tell me, again. And it's funny you critize the manga art but don't even adress why the anime art is as good. Manga art isn't perfect, but it's far better then the anime's. The character are drawn much more on model in the manga then in the anime, plus toyotaro action scenes in the fight far surpass the art of the anime. DB heroes manga is art that more resembles the anime.
The anime's art is mostly average. You have a few horrid episodes and a few spectacular episodes sprinkled in that. Overall, it's average. Not too bad, but not too good either. The manga has the style down, but the fundamentals are not there. I'll have to find time to round up some images and highlight the things I'm talking about. Everyone knows the Toyo neck issue though.lol Not saying his art is bad, I prefer it to the anime overall, but there are things that bugs me when it comes to his anatomy. So while I think he captures the style better, he needs some work on his basic anatomy, and as a fellow artist I'm not necessarily blown away by his art when I see those types of "rookie" mistakes considering he's at working at a professional level.
You have to admit Toyotaro absolutely nails certain aspects, such as shading and simplicity. I can't tell you how often I wonder what is even going on while reading another manga like JoJo. Toyotaro has the issue of cluttering panels with text boxes, but his art is very easy to follow.
I frankly am baffled by any criticism of Toyotaro's art/shading. It is just fantastic. He also does a really good job of emulating Toriyama's style and making it feel like the original manga IMO

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Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by reecehoward » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:25 pm

PFM18 wrote:
Bergamo wrote:
reecehoward wrote: The anime's art is mostly average. You have a few horrid episodes and a few spectacular episodes sprinkled in that. Overall, it's average. Not too bad, but not too good either. The manga has the style down, but the fundamentals are not there. I'll have to find time to round up some images and highlight the things I'm talking about. Everyone knows the Toyo neck issue though.lol Not saying his art is bad, I prefer it to the anime overall, but there are things that bugs me when it comes to his anatomy. So while I think he captures the style better, he needs some work on his basic anatomy, and as a fellow artist I'm not necessarily blown away by his art when I see those types of "rookie" mistakes considering he's at working at a professional level.
You have to admit Toyotaro absolutely nails certain aspects, such as shading and simplicity. I can't tell you how often I wonder what is even going on while reading another manga like JoJo. Toyotaro has the issue of cluttering panels with text boxes, but his art is very easy to follow.
I frankly am baffled by any criticism of Toyotaro's art/shading. It is just fantastic. He also does a really good job of emulating Toriyama's style and making it feel like the original manga IMO
Anyone's art is subject to critique. You learn that very quickly when you're in that world. Just look at how comic book fans can call art trash that the average person would call good.

https://i.redd.it/q5mb7xu4zu0y.jpg
This picture is a good example. It's a DOPE illustration, but it's got a glaring issue. Goku's left arm and neck/head are off. His head should be up higher, with his neack starting around the base of the collar of his blue shirt. It's much to low for the position he is in, as if it's not attached to his spine. His left arm looks limp AND is also drawn to high. When drawing an action pose, especially a dynamic one, the shoulders should be diagonal. In this pic, they are vertical, which is "unnatural" considering his actual pose. Long story short, this picture of Goku is trying WAAAAY too hard to be dynamic and any artist with some study under their belt can see the lack of understanding in that picture.

https://www.google.com/search?q=toyotar ... uIJMG6iFiM
This pic suffers the same issues. Arms are in an "unnatural" position, as if Goku has no shoulder blades. His neck, much like in the previous example, also doesn't fit the curvature of his spine in this pose.

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/23/9b/e0/239b ... 54bb56.jpg
This is another dope picture hurt only by Toyo's lack of understanding of basic anatomy. Super Saiyan Goku's lower half does not fit the pose and angle of his upper half. When drawing these poses, he doesn't do so with how the spine curves.

This is a recurring thing in his work, which goes to show that he has great talent but has never really studied the arts as these are like basic "rookie" mistakes. Like I said, he does a GREAT job emulating Toriyama's feel and art, however, the recurring issues in his work tells me where he could use a crash course on several basic things.

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Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by Bergamo » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:38 pm

reecehoward wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Bergamo wrote: You have to admit Toyotaro absolutely nails certain aspects, such as shading and simplicity. I can't tell you how often I wonder what is even going on while reading another manga like JoJo. Toyotaro has the issue of cluttering panels with text boxes, but his art is very easy to follow.
I frankly am baffled by any criticism of Toyotaro's art/shading. It is just fantastic. He also does a really good job of emulating Toriyama's style and making it feel like the original manga IMO
Anyone's art is subject to critique. You learn that very quickly when you're in that world. Just look at how comic book fans can call art trash that the average person would call good.

https://i.redd.it/q5mb7xu4zu0y.jpg
This picture is a good example. It's a DOPE illustration, but it's got a glaring issue. Goku's left arm and neck/head are off. His head should be up higher, with his neack starting around the base of the collar of his blue shirt. It's much to low for the position he is in, as if it's not attached to his spine. His left arm looks limp AND is also drawn to high. When drawing an action pose, especially a dynamic one, the shoulders should be diagonal. In this pic, they are vertical, which is "unnatural" considering his actual pose. Long story short, this picture of Goku is trying WAAAAY too hard to be dynamic and any artist with some study under their belt can see the lack of understanding in that picture.

https://www.google.com/search?q=toyotar ... uIJMG6iFiM
This pic suffers the same issues. Arms are in an "unnatural" position, as if Goku has no shoulder blades. His neck, much like in the previous example, also doesn't fit the curvature of his spine in this pose.

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/23/9b/e0/239b ... 54bb56.jpg
This is another dope picture hurt only by Toyo's lack of understanding of basic anatomy. Super Saiyan Goku's lower half does not fit the pose and angle of his upper half. When drawing these poses, he doesn't do so with how the spine curves.

This is a recurring thing in his work, which goes to show that he has great talent but has never really studied the arts as these are like basic "rookie" mistakes. Like I said, he does a GREAT job emulating Toriyama's feel and art, however, the recurring issues in his work tells me where he could use a crash course on several basic things.
I think that anatomically incorrect poses are part of Toyo's artstyle, similar to the backbreaking poses in JoJo.
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Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by reecehoward » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:59 pm

Bergamo wrote:
reecehoward wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
I frankly am baffled by any criticism of Toyotaro's art/shading. It is just fantastic. He also does a really good job of emulating Toriyama's style and making it feel like the original manga IMO
Anyone's art is subject to critique. You learn that very quickly when you're in that world. Just look at how comic book fans can call art trash that the average person would call good.

https://i.redd.it/q5mb7xu4zu0y.jpg
This picture is a good example. It's a DOPE illustration, but it's got a glaring issue. Goku's left arm and neck/head are off. His head should be up higher, with his neack starting around the base of the collar of his blue shirt. It's much to low for the position he is in, as if it's not attached to his spine. His left arm looks limp AND is also drawn to high. When drawing an action pose, especially a dynamic one, the shoulders should be diagonal. In this pic, they are vertical, which is "unnatural" considering his actual pose. Long story short, this picture of Goku is trying WAAAAY too hard to be dynamic and any artist with some study under their belt can see the lack of understanding in that picture.

https://www.google.com/search?q=toyotar ... uIJMG6iFiM
This pic suffers the same issues. Arms are in an "unnatural" position, as if Goku has no shoulder blades. His neck, much like in the previous example, also doesn't fit the curvature of his spine in this pose.

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/23/9b/e0/239b ... 54bb56.jpg
This is another dope picture hurt only by Toyo's lack of understanding of basic anatomy. Super Saiyan Goku's lower half does not fit the pose and angle of his upper half. When drawing these poses, he doesn't do so with how the spine curves.

This is a recurring thing in his work, which goes to show that he has great talent but has never really studied the arts as these are like basic "rookie" mistakes. Like I said, he does a GREAT job emulating Toriyama's feel and art, however, the recurring issues in his work tells me where he could use a crash course on several basic things.
I think that anatomically incorrect poses are part of Toyo's artstyle, similar to the backbreaking poses in JoJo.
I disagree STRONGLY. You can tell the difference between deliberate exaggeration and accidental. As I said about Araki, he knows his stuff, and has a strong grasp of anatomy. His manga isn't called "BIZARRE ADVENTURES" for nothing. Toyo's is clearly not deliberate, as I mentioned earlier with the Goku poses; he has the shoulders at a direct vertical angle. That's a BIG no-no. You take away from the dynamics of an image like that. Further evidence is how in the images of multiple people, he gets them right, only missing the mark when he goes for certain angles and poses.

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Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by Bergamo » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:37 pm

reecehoward wrote:
Bergamo wrote:
reecehoward wrote:
Anyone's art is subject to critique. You learn that very quickly when you're in that world. Just look at how comic book fans can call art trash that the average person would call good.

https://i.redd.it/q5mb7xu4zu0y.jpg
This picture is a good example. It's a DOPE illustration, but it's got a glaring issue. Goku's left arm and neck/head are off. His head should be up higher, with his neack starting around the base of the collar of his blue shirt. It's much to low for the position he is in, as if it's not attached to his spine. His left arm looks limp AND is also drawn to high. When drawing an action pose, especially a dynamic one, the shoulders should be diagonal. In this pic, they are vertical, which is "unnatural" considering his actual pose. Long story short, this picture of Goku is trying WAAAAY too hard to be dynamic and any artist with some study under their belt can see the lack of understanding in that picture.

https://www.google.com/search?q=toyotar ... uIJMG6iFiM
This pic suffers the same issues. Arms are in an "unnatural" position, as if Goku has no shoulder blades. His neck, much like in the previous example, also doesn't fit the curvature of his spine in this pose.

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/23/9b/e0/239b ... 54bb56.jpg
This is another dope picture hurt only by Toyo's lack of understanding of basic anatomy. Super Saiyan Goku's lower half does not fit the pose and angle of his upper half. When drawing these poses, he doesn't do so with how the spine curves.

This is a recurring thing in his work, which goes to show that he has great talent but has never really studied the arts as these are like basic "rookie" mistakes. Like I said, he does a GREAT job emulating Toriyama's feel and art, however, the recurring issues in his work tells me where he could use a crash course on several basic things.
I think that anatomically incorrect poses are part of Toyo's artstyle, similar to the backbreaking poses in JoJo.
I disagree STRONGLY. You can tell the difference between deliberate exaggeration and accidental. As I said about Araki, he knows his stuff, and has a strong grasp of anatomy. His manga isn't called "BIZARRE ADVENTURES" for nothing. Toyo's is clearly not deliberate, as I mentioned earlier with the Goku poses; he has the shoulders at a direct vertical angle. That's a BIG no-no. You take away from the dynamics of an image like that. Further evidence is how in the images of multiple people, he gets them right, only missing the mark when he goes for certain angles and poses.
I think that Araki was a much better understanding of anatomy, but Toyotaro isn't doing this on accident. Toyotaro draws angles with an utter disregard for anatomy, which gives a surreal look to his art and makes it feel like the scene is twisting around the paper.
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Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by reecehoward » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:36 pm

Bergamo wrote:
reecehoward wrote:
Bergamo wrote: I think that anatomically incorrect poses are part of Toyo's artstyle, similar to the backbreaking poses in JoJo.
I disagree STRONGLY. You can tell the difference between deliberate exaggeration and accidental. As I said about Araki, he knows his stuff, and has a strong grasp of anatomy. His manga isn't called "BIZARRE ADVENTURES" for nothing. Toyo's is clearly not deliberate, as I mentioned earlier with the Goku poses; he has the shoulders at a direct vertical angle. That's a BIG no-no. You take away from the dynamics of an image like that. Further evidence is how in the images of multiple people, he gets them right, only missing the mark when he goes for certain angles and poses.
I think that Araki was a much better understanding of anatomy, but Toyotaro isn't doing this on accident. Toyotaro draws angles with an utter disregard for anatomy, which gives a surreal look to his art and makes it feel like the scene is twisting around the paper.
I'm going to disagree for the simple fact that in the examples I've posted, only one character has that look and not the scenery nor other characters around them. For instance, The picture of the three forms of Goku. Base and God are drawn in a standard 2D pose, yet Super Saiyan is drawn in a 3D pose. Nothing too crazy or surreal, just that his torso is in a position that doesn't line up with his lower half. There's no way that it's purposely done as it doesn't add a single thing to that picture. That's the indicator of it accidental or something he does subconsciously.

Like in using Araki, you validate what I'm saying. Araki bends the rules to give this sort of flamboyant and borderline erotic vibe to his poses. The figure AND everything around the figure work together to create that vibe. That's the sign of an artist who knows his shit. In the case of Toyo's, if everything around(the background and other characters) is fairly normal and only one thing out the whole bunch has that dynamic...it kind of ruins the effect. It's a very nuanced thing and takes tons of practice.

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Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by Bergamo » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:51 pm

reecehoward wrote:
Bergamo wrote:
reecehoward wrote: I disagree STRONGLY. You can tell the difference between deliberate exaggeration and accidental. As I said about Araki, he knows his stuff, and has a strong grasp of anatomy. His manga isn't called "BIZARRE ADVENTURES" for nothing. Toyo's is clearly not deliberate, as I mentioned earlier with the Goku poses; he has the shoulders at a direct vertical angle. That's a BIG no-no. You take away from the dynamics of an image like that. Further evidence is how in the images of multiple people, he gets them right, only missing the mark when he goes for certain angles and poses.
I think that Araki was a much better understanding of anatomy, but Toyotaro isn't doing this on accident. Toyotaro draws angles with an utter disregard for anatomy, which gives a surreal look to his art and makes it feel like the scene is twisting around the paper.
I'm going to disagree for the simple fact that in the examples I've posted, only one character has that look and not the scenery nor other characters around them. For instance, The picture of the three forms of Goku. Base and God are drawn in a standard 2D pose, yet Super Saiyan is drawn in a 3D pose. Nothing too crazy or surreal, just that his torso is in a position that doesn't line up with his lower half. There's no way that it's purposely done as it doesn't add a single thing to that picture. That's the indicator of it accidental or something he does subconsciously.

Like in using Araki, you validate what I'm saying. Araki bends the rules to give this sort of flamboyant and borderline erotic vibe to his poses. The figure AND everything around the figure work together to create that vibe. That's the sign of an artist who knows his shit. In the case of Toyo's, if everything around(the background and other characters) is fairly normal and only one thing out the whole bunch has that dynamic...it kind of ruins the effect. It's a very nuanced thing and takes tons of practice.
In the picture of the 3 forms, base Goku also has an exaggerated pose where his shoulders are too high and his head is too low. I think this actually points to it being an artstyle.
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Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by prince212 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:49 pm

reecehoward wrote:
Bergamo wrote:
reecehoward wrote:

https://i.redd.it/q5mb7xu4zu0y.jpg
This picture is a good example. It's a DOPE illustration, but it's got a glaring issue. Goku's left arm and neck/head are off. His head should be up higher, with his neack starting around the base of the collar of his blue shirt. It's much to low for the position he is in, as if it's not attached to his spine. His left arm looks limp AND is also drawn to high. When drawing an action pose, especially a dynamic one, the shoulders should be diagonal. In this pic, they are vertical, which is "unnatural" considering his actual pose. Long story short, this picture of Goku is trying WAAAAY too hard to be dynamic and any artist with some study under their belt can see the lack of understanding in that picture.

https://www.google.com/search?q=toyotar ... uIJMG6iFiM

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/23/9b/e0/239b ... 54bb56.jpg

This is a recurring thing in his work, which goes to show that he has great talent but has never really studied the arts as these are like basic "rookie" mistakes. Like I said, he does a GREAT job emulating Toriyama's feel and art, however, the recurring issues in his work tells me where he could use a crash course on several basic things.
I think that anatomically incorrect poses are part of Toyo's artstyle, similar to the backbreaking poses in JoJo.
I disagree STRONGLY. You can tell the difference between deliberate exaggeration and accidental.
I’m not a big fan of those poses . I’m not an artist myself like you , but I still can see those unnatural positions just like you said ..., at first I thought how in the world he can draw doing those mistakes or accidents.... but it’s clear that if I see them he can see them too .. so it’s deliberate. Thanks to those examples that you provide I’m starting to dig more that artstyle , on those I get the feeling , the dynamic of imposible poses , but there’s other examples that I don’t get it that much
An artist doesn’t need to study arts , he just need to practice , observe an have a good eye , in fact those kind of artist use to be the genius ones
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

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Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by reecehoward » Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:59 pm

prince212 wrote:
reecehoward wrote:
Bergamo wrote: I think that anatomically incorrect poses are part of Toyo's artstyle, similar to the backbreaking poses in JoJo.
I disagree STRONGLY. You can tell the difference between deliberate exaggeration and accidental.
I’m not a big fan of those poses . I’m not an artist myself like you , but I still can see those unnatural positions just like you said ..., at first I thought how in the world he can draw doing those mistakes or accidents.... but it’s clear that if I see them he can see them too .. so it’s deliberate. Thanks to those examples that you provide I’m starting to dig more that artstyle , on those I get the feeling , the dynamic of imposible poses , but there’s other examples that I don’t get it that much
An artist doesn’t need to study arts , he just need to practice , observe an have a good eye , in fact those kind of artist use to be the genius ones
Not necessarily true. If you have natural talent as an artist, but no formal training, there's a very VERY good chance that he doesn't see the flaw in his work. It takes for experienced artist to point out those things for you to dig further. This is what i like to call a quirk of his art. Yes, it can pass for a style, but that would mean that all of his drawings have that issue and they clearly don't. In the example with Merged Zamasu, only Goku has that rough pose. Everything else is fine proportion wise.

Edit: I want to add, one tell tale sign that this is not intentional is that it has no purpose. It doesn't add to the images. When an artist bends the rules, it has to have a meaning behind it. For instance, Street Fighter characters are drawn bulky to emphasize power and weight. No real human is shaped like Ryu or Chun-li, but these proprtions work because there is an intention behind the style. Araki's JoJo, has an exaggerated style that gives off this flamboyant vibe. He uses certain colors and imagery to add to that. For Toyo, what effect is added by a characters neck protruding from the middle if their chest? If you can find a reason, other than veing different for the sake of it, i'd concede my point.

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Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by prince212 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:04 pm

reecehoward wrote:
prince212 wrote:
reecehoward wrote: I disagree STRONGLY. You can tell the difference between deliberate exaggeration and accidental.
I’m not a big fan of those poses . I’m not an artist myself like you , but I still can see those unnatural positions just like you said ..., at first I thought how in the world he can draw doing those mistakes or accidents.... but it’s clear that if I see them he can see them too .. so it’s deliberate. Thanks to those examples that you provide I’m starting to dig more that artstyle , on those I get the feeling , the dynamic of imposible poses , but there’s other examples that I don’t get it that much
An artist doesn’t need to study arts , he just need to practice , observe an have a good eye , in fact those kind of artist use to be the genius ones
Not necessarily true. If you have natural talent as an artist, but no formal training, there's a very VERY good chance that he doesn't see the flaw in his work. It takes for experienced artist to point out those things for you to dig further. This is what i like to call a quirk of his art. Yes, it can pass for a style, but that would mean that all of his drawings have that issue and they clearly don't. In the example with Merged Zamasu, only Goku has that rough pose. Everything else is fine proportion wise.

Edit: I want to add, one tell tale sign that this is not intentional is that it has no purpose. It doesn't add to the images. When an artist bends the rules, it has to have a meaning behind it. For instance, Street Fighter characters are drawn bulky to emphasize power and weight. No real human is shaped like Ryu or Chun-li, but these proprtions work because there is an intention behind the style. Araki's JoJo, has an exaggerated style that gives off this flamboyant vibe. He uses certain colors and imagery to add to that. For Toyo, what effect is added by a characters neck protruding from the middle if their chest? If you can find a reason, other than veing different for the sake of it, i'd concede my point.
Honestly if I look deep into those examples that you provided ... I hate it , goku left hand in the cover of volume 6 is horrible... I still think is intentional, but it’s a fail to me . At first sight might give me some meaning of a death all-in fight , but nothing to look more than half a second .
The others examples of u.i that you posted are cool to me .
I understand your point , has sense , but I can’t understand how a guy who draw something can not watch the issues I watch after 1 second and place the head or whatever in a different position ... Those are not drawings to be done in a minute and leave them as they are with no possibility to correct them . Plus .. editors , some helpers , friends ... is he that lonely or blind ?
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

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Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by reecehoward » Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:45 am

prince212 wrote:
reecehoward wrote:
prince212 wrote: I’m not a big fan of those poses . I’m not an artist myself like you , but I still can see those unnatural positions just like you said ..., at first I thought how in the world he can draw doing those mistakes or accidents.... but it’s clear that if I see them he can see them too .. so it’s deliberate. Thanks to those examples that you provide I’m starting to dig more that artstyle , on those I get the feeling , the dynamic of imposible poses , but there’s other examples that I don’t get it that much
An artist doesn’t need to study arts , he just need to practice , observe an have a good eye , in fact those kind of artist use to be the genius ones
Not necessarily true. If you have natural talent as an artist, but no formal training, there's a very VERY good chance that he doesn't see the flaw in his work. It takes for experienced artist to point out those things for you to dig further. This is what i like to call a quirk of his art. Yes, it can pass for a style, but that would mean that all of his drawings have that issue and they clearly don't. In the example with Merged Zamasu, only Goku has that rough pose. Everything else is fine proportion wise.

Edit: I want to add, one tell tale sign that this is not intentional is that it has no purpose. It doesn't add to the images. When an artist bends the rules, it has to have a meaning behind it. For instance, Street Fighter characters are drawn bulky to emphasize power and weight. No real human is shaped like Ryu or Chun-li, but these proprtions work because there is an intention behind the style. Araki's JoJo, has an exaggerated style that gives off this flamboyant vibe. He uses certain colors and imagery to add to that. For Toyo, what effect is added by a characters neck protruding from the middle if their chest? If you can find a reason, other than veing different for the sake of it, i'd concede my point.
Honestly if I look deep into those examples that you provided ... I hate it , goku left hand in the cover of volume 6 is horrible... I still think is intentional, but it’s a fail to me . At first sight might give me some meaning of a death all-in fight , but nothing to look more than half a second .
The others examples of u.i that you posted are cool to me .
I understand your point , has sense , but I can’t understand how a guy who draw something can not watch the issues I watch after 1 second and place the head or whatever in a different position ... Those are not drawings to be done in a minute and leave them as they are with no possibility to correct them . Plus .. editors , some helpers , friends ... is he that lonely or blind ?
I'm not sure. I vaguely remember him admitting to have never been formally trained in art. When I read that, it all adds up to why he, for as talented as he is, still makes those anatomical mistakes. He simply doesn't know any better. As for editors and what not, it seems like either editors these days are far more lenient than they used to be on mangaka, or he really doesn't have one. I'm not sure. Either way, he could easily fix that with a simple anatomy course or a little bit of fine art. The level he's akready at, he'd breeze through that shit.

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FortuneSSJ
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Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by FortuneSSJ » Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:03 pm

Two things TOP manga did better than the anime:

- Time management. It was an error in the anime to have the narrator saying how much time is left in almost every episode, because it made the passage of time even harder to believe when only 1/2 minutes had passed in a episode. They should have been more vague about it like the manga and only update the audience a few times.

- Not every Universe team was defeated by Universe 7. Have Kale responsible for the elimination of 4 Universes was an exaggeration, but it fixes my problem with the anime where Universe 7 gave the final blow to all of them. The fact that she went berserk in the anime and bareilly eliminated anyone, it's like Toei wanted to have the cake and eat it too.

Talking about the new characters Base kale is infinitely better in the manga. I like how capable she is, while in the anime she didn't even seem to be able to throw a punch.
As for Jiren, he's boring in both versions. There's no much difference here.

All the other new characters were done better in the anime and Toei actually made TOP felt like the spectacle it was supposed to be.

Breaking down Universe Survival arc as a whole:

Beginning - Anime > Manga
Introduction of the other Gods - Anime < Manga
Zen Exhibition Match - Draw
Recruitment - Anime > Manga
TOP - Anime > Manga

Just like every single arc until now, the manga does a few things better but overall the anime is the better product.
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.

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Tai Lung
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Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by Tai Lung » Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:21 pm

the manga version of the tournament of power has convinced me that the toei version is superior at least for now

Goku seriously had no eliminations in the Manga?

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