Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
Miracles
I Live Here
Posts: 3744
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:31 am

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by Miracles » Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:56 am

JazzMazz wrote:Why exactly couldn't he have done so earlier in the fight when Hit hadn't fully powered up?

Also, I'm not sure if I'm just reading this wrong, but Hits power-up really wasn't anything to particularly gloat about in comparison to Blue, and they make it extremely clear that Goku could have won if he continued the fight.
On the contrary, they make it seem like the fight could have gone either way due to Hit holding back not being able to use killing techniques after dodging the Blue Kamehameha.
Also, Goku didn't turn Blue immediately cause he said he was waiting "for the moment" Hit powered up and it came down to the finale.

User avatar
JazzMazz
I Live Here
Posts: 2217
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:28 am
Location: Mordor, the Borg cube and Voldemort's lair all at the same time in the year 199X

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by JazzMazz » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:03 am

Miracles wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:Why exactly couldn't he have done so earlier in the fight when Hit hadn't fully powered up?

Also, I'm not sure if I'm just reading this wrong, but Hits power-up really wasn't anything to particularly gloat about in comparison to Blue, and they make it extremely clear that Goku could have won if he continued the fight.
On the contrary, they make it seem like the fight could have gone either way due to Hit holding back not being able to use killing techniques after dodging the Blue Kamehameha.
Also, Goku didn't turn Blue immediately cause he said he was waiting "for the moment" Hit powered up and it came down to the finale.
Yeah, but it was still pretty anti-climatic considering how little was done to build the tension to that final conflict, also, they make it clear that Hit's stamina is even shiter than SSB's at full power, so the fight would have definitely gone in his favour after the Kamehameha.

User avatar
Exline
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 287
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:28 pm

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by Exline » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:06 am

kn83 wrote: Character development is the process of a character becoming more rounded a fleshed out overtime. Changing into a different personality is not development, because all that's doing replacing one small set of traits with another. Also, are you really implying that a person can't be jealous of somebody and care about their family at the same time? Because that's a false dichotomy and an extremely one dimensional view how personalities work.

Goku has only pushed Kaioken to its max twice in all of Super. Once against Hit (where it damaged his body) and against Jiren in the ToP. He didn't use KKx10-20 in any other time used Kaioken in Super.

Also, Goku can't use Ultra Instinct at will, and there is no guarantee that it will activate every time Goku gets pushed into a corner. Until Goku learns how to use UI at will, Vegeta will remain the stronger of the two because of his Evolution form.
Pretty sure he used SSB Kaioken multiple times within this arc. I may be wrong, but I always thought the multiplier he used was x10 since it first debuted. I'm not sure if it's been stated otherwise whether or not he'd been using anything less than that.

And yes changing one's personality is a form of development. I was also not trying to imply Vegeta cannot be jealous and care about his family at the same time. I was implying that he dwindles between his cell and buu saga self and used them as examples. I didn't explain it very clearly cause I was getting pretty tired haha

Some other examples of his odd personality is that he refuses to give Goku energy for his spirit bomb, but then gives his energy to Goku to fight Jiren after he is knocked out. That doesn't make any sense to me at all. Why would he give energy to Goku if he refused to do it the first time..?
He even rushes at Jiren with little to no strategy at all. He even claims Jiren is holding back on him, something along the lines of "you were faster and stronger when you fought kakarot". He then proceeds to get himself embarrassed by Jiren and even does a Full-Power Final Flash on him, extremely similar to what happened in the Perfect Cell Saga. He even gets cocky believing he's bested Jiren.

One's development does not have to change drastically, but it should not remain stagnant. If you're going to continue a story with many main characters, you have to give these characters something to go through and make them change how they approach situations because then we are just going to get the same old same old every time and eventually, that character will become extremely boring. There's like two threads talking about how people are tired of Vegeta and how he should be phased out like he was in GT.

(Not saying I completely agree with that, but just throwing it out there. Not everyone is fond of this "rivalry" betweenn Goku and Vegeta. It is indeed getting a bit stale.)

kn83
Banned
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:27 pm

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by kn83 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:52 am

Exline wrote:And yes changing one's personality is a form of development. I was also not trying to imply Vegeta cannot be jealous and care about his family at the same time. I was implying that he dwindles between his cell and buu saga self and used them as examples. I didn't explain it very clearly cause I was getting pretty tired haha

Some other examples of his odd personality is that he refuses to give Goku energy for his spirit bomb, but then gives his energy to Goku to fight Jiren after he is knocked out. That doesn't make any sense to me at all. Why would he give energy to Goku if he refused to do it the first time..?
Completely changing a personality is not development, because all that's doing is replacing one small set of traits with another. You aren't actually building or expanding a character if you just outright change their core personality traits. By making the false argument that he is switching between his Cell and Buu arc selves, you are essentially reducing a character to a narrow set of small traits and implying that a character can't have more of them simultaneously.

Also, the reason he doesn't give Goku energy for the Spirit Bomb was that he wanted to take on Jiren himself. He only gives his energy when it becomes completely clear he isn't gonna beat Jiren in ep.129.
Exline wrote:He even rushes at Jiren with little to no strategy at all. He even claims Jiren is holding back on him, something along the lines of "you were faster and stronger when you fought kakarot". He then proceeds to get himself embarrassed by Jiren and even does a Full-Power Final Flash on him, extremely similar to what happened in the Perfect Cell Saga. He even gets cocky believing he's bested Jiren.
Vegeta put up a much better fight against Jiren than both Hit and especially Blue Goku did in the hour special since Vegeta actually managed to hurt him without Ultra Instinct. There was nothing embarrassing about Vegeta's performance compared to Goku's, since Goku was the one who took an embarrassing L against Jiren before unlocking UI.

Comparing Vegeta vs Jiren to Vegeta vs Cell is a false analogy. Vegeta fought Jiren in the hopes that doing so would break his limits like Goku did, which is exactly what happened with him unlocking Blue Evolution. Vegeta fighting Cell was him being under the delusion that he was the strongest in the universe after training in the ROSAT. That's why he allowed Cell to become Perfect. The two fights are clearly not the same.
Exline wrote:One's development does not have to change drastically, but it should not remain stagnant. If you're going to continue a story with many main characters, you have to give these characters something to go through and make them change how they approach situations because then we are just going to get the same old same old every time and eventually, that character will become extremely boring. There's like two threads talking about how people are tired of Vegeta and how he should be phased out like he was in GT.

(Not saying I completely agree with that, but just throwing it out there. Not everyone is fond of this "rivalry" betweenn Goku and Vegeta. It is indeed getting a bit stale.)
I just proved that Vegeta in those scenes was not at all approaching a situation like he would in Z. Claiming that a character maintaining innate and lifelong personality traits like arrogance, pride, etc is being stagnant shows a complete ignorance of both what character development actually is and how personalities actually work. That's like arguing the characters of a Shakespeare play a stagnant because none of them ever change at all from beginning to the end. It doesn't make any sense.

Phasing out a character like Vegeta (who is just as popular as Goku and has the most development out of anyone in the entire franchise) is an extremely stupid idea. Its just one of the many reasons why GT was a failure. I doubt the people at Toei would make the same mistake again.

User avatar
Miracles
I Live Here
Posts: 3744
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:31 am

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by Miracles » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:45 pm

JazzMazz wrote:
Miracles wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:Why exactly couldn't he have done so earlier in the fight when Hit hadn't fully powered up?

Also, I'm not sure if I'm just reading this wrong, but Hits power-up really wasn't anything to particularly gloat about in comparison to Blue, and they make it extremely clear that Goku could have won if he continued the fight.
On the contrary, they make it seem like the fight could have gone either way due to Hit holding back not being able to use killing techniques after dodging the Blue Kamehameha.
Also, Goku didn't turn Blue immediately cause he said he was waiting "for the moment" Hit powered up and it came down to the finale.
Yeah, but it was still pretty anti-climatic considering how little was done to build the tension to that final conflict, also, they make it clear that Hit's stamina is even shiter than SSB's at full power, so the fight would have definitely gone in his favour after the Kamehameha.
Hit's stamina at full power isn't bad like SSB. He couldn't maintain it for long because he never had to use it before. It isn't like SSB drain which is a constant problem.

User avatar
Rakurai
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1258
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:48 pm
Contact:

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by Rakurai » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:07 pm

I hope to Kami/Dende/Shin/Beerus that Vegeta don't get SSB Evolution. Because that form felt completely like powerscaling damage control since he wasn't destined to achieve Completed UI or lacked an equivalent to SSB-KK. Hell even the way it was achieved by 'breaking his shell' felt strange since that is literally the same cause for getting UI. I'm sure everyone probably already knew this, but I just wanted to vent. Toyotaro did good by laying out a progression of how to master and utilize SSB to its fullest extent without introducing pretentious power-ups, for both Goku and Vegeta.
Super Dragon Ball Heroes Universe Mission translation compilation here. All translations are done and owned by me.

SDBH 9th anniversary the secret development interview here. Learn how original SDBH characters such as SS3 Raditz, SS4 Bardock, Robel, & more were conceived!

ToshioWrites
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 573
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:22 pm

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by ToshioWrites » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:12 pm

Rakurai wrote:I hope to Kami/Dende/Shin/Beerus that Vegeta don't get SSB Evolution. Because that form felt completely like powerscaling damage control since he wasn't destined to achieve Completed UI or lacked an equivalent to SSB-KK. Hell even the way it was achieved by 'breaking his shell' felt strange since that is literally the same cause for getting UI. I'm sure everyone probably already knew this, but I just wanted to vent. Toyotaro did good by laying out a progression of how to master and utilize SSB to its fullest extent without introducing pretentious power-ups, for both Goku and Vegeta.

He’s not getting SSBE since Toyo never introduced KK. In the anime until episode 123 , Goku was at minimum 20 times stronger than Goku whereas in the manga they are on even terms power wise until UI

kn83
Banned
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:27 pm

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by kn83 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:05 am

Rakurai wrote:I hope to Kami/Dende/Shin/Beerus that Vegeta don't get SSB Evolution. Because that form felt completely like powerscaling damage control since he wasn't destined to achieve Completed UI or lacked an equivalent to SSB-KK. Hell even the way it was achieved by 'breaking his shell' felt strange since that is literally the same cause for getting UI. I'm sure everyone probably already knew this, but I just wanted to vent. Toyotaro did good by laying out a progression of how to master and utilize SSB to its fullest extent without introducing pretentious power-ups, for both Goku and Vegeta.
The writing and powerscaling for Mastered SSB in the manga is far worse than ToP power-up in the anime
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31DC7quEm8M

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by sintzu » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:47 am

Rakurai wrote:I hope to Kami/Dende/Shin/Beerus that Vegeta don't get SSB Evolution.
That was just introduced to close the gap between him and Goku, a gap that doesn't exist in the manga so we won't see it there. I don't even think we'll see UI Omen as that also may be a Toei exclusive. I do hope we see Vegeta use Ssj3, maybe to show it to Cabba.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

User avatar
Hawk9211
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 812
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:23 am

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by Hawk9211 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:07 am

kn83 wrote:
Rakurai wrote:I hope to Kami/Dende/Shin/Beerus that Vegeta don't get SSB Evolution. Because that form felt completely like powerscaling damage control since he wasn't destined to achieve Completed UI or lacked an equivalent to SSB-KK. Hell even the way it was achieved by 'breaking his shell' felt strange since that is literally the same cause for getting UI. I'm sure everyone probably already knew this, but I just wanted to vent. Toyotaro did good by laying out a progression of how to master and utilize SSB to its fullest extent without introducing pretentious power-ups, for both Goku and Vegeta.
The writing and powerscaling for Mastered SSB in the manga is far worse than ToP power-up in the anime
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31DC7quEm8M
I can't bear seth so I only watched half the video.So,just lay out the points and from what I watched:
1.Bases in anime are all over the place.Ssjg was said to be stronger than vegetto and if we take it at face value it means everyone is comparable to ssjg including krillin.Not to mention it does not make sense since god ki can't be sensed and ssjg appears later in the anime.That's like saying you can stack super saiyan on super saiyan.
2.Lifting power has always been unbelievable relative to other powers especialy the numbers.In the 23 tournament,goku wearing something like 40 pounds makes him significantly slower.Even though he thew a car at the start of manga.
Why power levels are important?
The genre and roots of dragon ball

User avatar
Bergamo
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 968
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:18 am

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by Bergamo » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:59 am

What people don't understand is that
Goku's initial SSG transformation = Base < Super Saiyan < Goku's SSG transformation uses effectively < Blue

This can be seen when goku is supposedly stronger than SSG in SS, but he still needed to transform back into SSG to destroy the sphere of destruction. I'm pretty sure this is because goku didn't know how to properly use SSG when he first transformed, and he was able to mimic the hints of god power he felt in his base, but real god power is still stronger than that.
My explanations for the events of my favorite current manga.

DBS Manga Explained: Goku Black's Transformations

User avatar
Exline
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 287
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:28 pm

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by Exline » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:52 pm

sintzu wrote:
Rakurai wrote:I hope to Kami/Dende/Shin/Beerus that Vegeta don't get SSB Evolution.
That was just introduced to close the gap between him and Goku, a gap that doesn't exist in the manga so we won't see it there. I don't even think we'll see UI Omen as that also may be a Toei exclusive. I do hope we see Vegeta use Ssj3, maybe to show it to Cabba.
Why does Vegeta need SS3? It's such a dated and useless transformation at this point since he already has SSG, SSB and Complete SSB.

SSJ2 is enough for Cabba and he should be striving for SSG.

Wait thinking about it now, what if the saiyans have to work together and then infuse SSG into one of the U6 Saiyans to give them a fighting chance? Ah it would be sick!!!!! It's a ritual anyways, it's one of the few transformations that doesn't need to be earned through intense training.

The only way I can see them being forced to do a ritual is if Anilaza appears earlier in the tournament. With more fighters being preoccupied, Anilaza will be able to deal with some without too many distractions. The saiyans might come together to face against him, but fail. The U6 Saiyans will question Goku and Vegeta about their SSG Transformations and bring up the idea that one of them could do the ritual. It could be a ritual for either Gohan or Cabba to get SSG to help against Anilaza. Would prefer Cabba so he gets a power boost so he and Vegeta can have a proper rematch instead of their one-sided match in the U6 Tournament.

SHIT Maybe Cabba thinks ahead and figures out how to do the ritual on Planet Sadala with other saiyans? They probably learned of it from the U6 Namekian Book of Legends >_>

You guys might think this idea is definitely stupid haha :lol:
Bergamo wrote:What people don't understand is that
Goku's initial SSG transformation = Base < Super Saiyan < Goku's SSG transformation uses effectively < Blue

This can be seen when goku is supposedly stronger than SSG in SS, but he still needed to transform back into SSG to destroy the sphere of destruction. I'm pretty sure this is because goku didn't know how to properly use SSG when he first transformed, and he was able to mimic the hints of god power he felt in his base, but real god power is still stronger than that.
Really? I thought the Saiyan Beyond God was retconned at this point. I'm grateful both the anime and manga haven't forgotten about SSG. I love that form, more than Blue tbh.

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by sintzu » Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:07 pm

Exline wrote:Why does Vegeta need SS3?
He's my favorite character and that's my favorite Ssj form so I want to see it in "canon" at least once.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

User avatar
Miracles
I Live Here
Posts: 3744
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:31 am

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by Miracles » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:26 pm

sintzu wrote:
Exline wrote:Why does Vegeta need SS3?
He's my favorite character and that's my favorite Ssj form so I want to see it in "canon" at least once.
He'll like Gotenks three mode. :lol:

User avatar
Rakurai
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1258
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:48 pm
Contact:

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by Rakurai » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:50 pm

ToshioWrites wrote:
Rakurai wrote:I hope to Kami/Dende/Shin/Beerus that Vegeta don't get SSB Evolution. Because that form felt completely like powerscaling damage control since he wasn't destined to achieve Completed UI or lacked an equivalent to SSB-KK. Hell even the way it was achieved by 'breaking his shell' felt strange since that is literally the same cause for getting UI. I'm sure everyone probably already knew this, but I just wanted to vent. Toyotaro did good by laying out a progression of how to master and utilize SSB to its fullest extent without introducing pretentious power-ups, for both Goku and Vegeta.

He’s not getting SSBE since Toyo never introduced KK. In the anime until episode 123 , Goku was at minimum 20 times stronger than Goku whereas in the manga they are on even terms power wise until UI
That's the hope. Or if he attempts to break his limit, make the narrative more consistent and give him pseudo-UI like how Whis explained things.
kn83 wrote:
Rakurai wrote:I hope to Kami/Dende/Shin/Beerus that Vegeta don't get SSB Evolution. Because that form felt completely like powerscaling damage control since he wasn't destined to achieve Completed UI or lacked an equivalent to SSB-KK. Hell even the way it was achieved by 'breaking his shell' felt strange since that is literally the same cause for getting UI. I'm sure everyone probably already knew this, but I just wanted to vent. Toyotaro did good by laying out a progression of how to master and utilize SSB to its fullest extent without introducing pretentious power-ups, for both Goku and Vegeta.
The writing and powerscaling for Mastered SSB in the manga is far worse than ToP power-up in the anime
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31DC7quEm8M
Sorry but if you want to demonstrate why, please don't link me to YouTubers. With the exception of Ajay, I can't stand DB YouTubers. Use your own words to explain to me why (once you get off your ban).

That being said, I don't think there is anything worse that tops out Copy Vegeta shitting on SSJ3 Gotenks or Gohan going from his old power to fighting against SSB Goku in like less than a day.
Super Dragon Ball Heroes Universe Mission translation compilation here. All translations are done and owned by me.

SDBH 9th anniversary the secret development interview here. Learn how original SDBH characters such as SS3 Raditz, SS4 Bardock, Robel, & more were conceived!

User avatar
Bergamo
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 968
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:18 am

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by Bergamo » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:37 pm

It's not a matter of if Vegeta will break his limits, but how. Vegeta said that he's tired of following in the path created by kakarot and that he'd obtain the power of the gods first. This line from chapter 27 basically confirms that Goku will most definitely surpass Goku, but probably in the capacity of Evolution or "My Bulma".
My explanations for the events of my favorite current manga.

DBS Manga Explained: Goku Black's Transformations

EGonzo
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 220
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:36 am

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by EGonzo » Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:38 pm

sintzu wrote:
Rakurai wrote:I hope to Kami/Dende/Shin/Beerus that Vegeta don't get SSB Evolution.
That was just introduced to close the gap between him and Goku, a gap that doesn't exist in the manga so we won't see it there. I don't even think we'll see UI Omen as that also may be a Toei exclusive. I do hope we see Vegeta use Ssj3, maybe to show it to Cabba.
I like Blue Evolution just fine, in a way it dispels the idea Goku is the only one who can break his limits. It was damage control to keep them equal, but it works fine for the story. That said, I don't mind if we don't see it the manga.

I hope we see Omen in the manga. it was interesting to see Goku having to working his way to actually fully use the transformation, unlike the other times(aside SSJ1) where he can use them as soon as he learns them.

Super Saiyan 3 Vegeta I'm 100% with you.

User avatar
Bergamo
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 968
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:18 am

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by Bergamo » Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:45 pm

EGonzo wrote:
sintzu wrote:
Rakurai wrote:I hope to Kami/Dende/Shin/Beerus that Vegeta don't get SSB Evolution.
That was just introduced to close the gap between him and Goku, a gap that doesn't exist in the manga so we won't see it there. I don't even think we'll see UI Omen as that also may be a Toei exclusive. I do hope we see Vegeta use Ssj3, maybe to show it to Cabba.
I like Blue Evolution just fine, in a way it dispels the idea Goku is the only one who can break his limits. It was damage control to keep them equal, but it works fine for the story. That said, I don't mind if we don't see it the manga.

I hope we see Omen in the manga. it was interesting to see Goku having to working his way to actually fully use the transformation, unlike the other times(aside SSJ1) where he can use them as soon as he learns them.

Super Saiyan 3 Vegeta I'm 100% with you.
I think Goku can still gradually learn UI even without omen. Goku changing form twice in the same saga was gratuitous, and it was jarring having a new hair color for one episode, when it would have been no different if Goku stayed in omen. I think Goku should just have one ultra instinct, and that's it.
My explanations for the events of my favorite current manga.

DBS Manga Explained: Goku Black's Transformations

EGonzo
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 220
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:36 am

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by EGonzo » Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:58 pm

Aside from the Goku Black Arc (which I think is terrible in the manga due to turning Black into a generic bad guy, Trunks barely doing anything on his own arc, Vegeta randomly regressing character in the fight against Merged Zamasu, and Merged Zamasu himself being so weak he's beaten by Blue Goku) I don't mind the manga that much. I think it's an inferior product that relies too much on the readers watching the anime equivalent, but I enjoy the different take on Toriyama's outline.

That said, I think Blue is worse in the manga, or at least very confusing. At first the flaw was that you couldn't transform over and over like the other transformations, because the act of transforming took a lot of stamina. Then by the Goku Black Arc it changes to Blue being like SSJ3 on steroids, it drains stamina like crazy and can only be used at full power for a few minutes; I actually don't mind that a lot, I see the blue "chunks" in the aura as energy leaking out, so when they "master" it by sealing the aura makes sense and is kinda cool.

But by the ToP Arc it changes again. Mastered Blue was being able to use the full power of Blue for a longer period, but suddenly sealing the aura makes the user randomly far more powerful? It's shown when Vegeta spars against Beerus. Using normal Blue (right as he transforms, so he's logically still using the full power) he can't do anything to Beerus, but as soon as he goes Mastered he can actually land a punch on him. Yes, Beerus is fooling around, but he's fooling around all the time so it still counts.

User avatar
Bergamo
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 968
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:18 am

Re: Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

Post by Bergamo » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:11 pm

EGonzo wrote:Aside from the Goku Black Arc (which I think is terrible in the manga due to turning Black into a generic bad guy, Trunks barely doing anything on his own arc, Vegeta randomly regressing character in the fight against Merged Zamasu, and Merged Zamasu himself being so weak he's beaten by Blue Goku) I don't mind the manga that much. I think it's an inferior product that relies too much on the readers watching the anime equivalent, but I enjoy the different take on Toriyama's outline.

That said, I think Blue is worse in the manga, or at least very confusing. At first the flaw was that you couldn't transform over and over like the other transformations, because the act of transforming took a lot of stamina. Then by the Goku Black Arc it changes to Blue being like SSJ3 on steroids, it drains stamina like crazy and can only be used at full power for a few minutes; I actually don't mind that a lot, I see the blue "chunks" in the aura as energy leaking out, so when they "master" it by sealing the aura makes sense and is kinda cool.

But by the ToP Arc it changes again. Mastered Blue was being able to use the full power of Blue for a longer period, but suddenly sealing the aura makes the user randomly far more powerful? It's shown when Vegeta spars against Beerus. Using normal Blue (right as he transforms, so he's logically still using the full power) he can't do anything to Beerus, but as soon as he goes Mastered he can actually land a punch on him. Yes, Beerus is fooling around, but he's fooling around all the time so it still counts.
Mastered Blue is the full power of Blue, so it still is stronger than Blue in the sense that it uses power that would regularly be leaking out. It's stronger in the sense that Full Power Super Saiyan in the cell saga is stronger than regular SS, because once stamina is no longer an issue, you can power up more. Also, just because Black, MZ, Vegeta, and Trunks are written differently in the manga doesn't make the manga worse. Black is much more idealistic than Cell or Frieza, and he is so obsessed with being revered that he loses his temper because Vegeta smirks at him. These things make Black less "generic" than you give him credit for.
My explanations for the events of my favorite current manga.

DBS Manga Explained: Goku Black's Transformations

Post Reply