Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

[MajinMan]

After reading the Future Trunks arc from start to "finish," I can say that I prefer the anime. I thought the emotional moments, characters, and to an extent, the fight scenes, were all done better in the anime. The biggest reason why I prefer the anime is Trunks himself. In the manga he was very much a supporting character. I did not like his medic role. The ending of the manga was also not nearly as good as the anime's. Toei actually gave us a very unique and depressing ending in a Dragon Ball series, something we haven't ever gotten before. Some may not like it, but I thought it was one of the arc's strongest points.

[Lord Beerus]

Having read the final chapter of the Future Trunks arc in the manga and having watched the anime version of the Future Trunks arc, I personally much prefer the anime interpretation of the events.

Goku Black and Zamasu felt more fleshed more in the anime, not just in the aspect of their personalities and their character development but in how they connected with the central cast. Goku battling Zamasu in the anime was huge a part of Zamasu descent into darkness and a very important aspect within the plot itself. After meeting Goku however and losing to him quickly in a sparring match, his views radically changed and his distrustful nature towards mortals only grew. Annoyed at Goku's carefree attitude and lack of respect, his distaste for the gods not quelling the dangerous nature of mortals evolved to a radicalism-level. Shocked at how a mortal like Goku could gain a power rivalling gods, let alone even obtaining such power, and so recklessly challenge a God and defeat him easily, Zamasu came to sternly believe that mortal life by nature is an evil. It's that meeting with Goku that also serves as the core purpose for why he steal Goku's body in the first place.

The anime makes scenario with Zamasu's distrusts of mortals, and later Goku specifically, more logical because he actually meets and fights Goku and personally comes to the conclusion that mortal having that kind of power, let alone the power to challenge Gods, is a potentially great danger to the universe and a grave mistake of the Gods to let it happen in the first place. The manga just glosses over that aspect by having Zamasu's only knowledge of Goku be watching him through Godtube clips. Take all of the that development out and Goku Black loses all of his unique symbolism and representation. In the manga, he sees a few clips on Godtube of Goku fighting in the Universe 6/7 tournament is all like "Yeah. Fuck this guy." Seriously? I don't like that lack of motivation as why he would choose Goku. There's literally no point to the concept of Goku Black even existing in the manga. Zamasu could have switched bodies with anyone in the manga with how more ambiguous and shallow they make his motivation towards hating mortals. For all intents and purposes, he could have swapped bodies with Hit or Vegeta.

In the anime when one of the Babarians tries to attack Zamasu and Gowasu at first glance the scene was made scene all the more poignant was the look of shock on Zamasu face after he cut the Babarian in half. He didn't evilly grin like he did in he manga. In the anime, he was just seem more taken aback that his natural instinct would lead him to do such a thing even in the extreme circumstance. It's those little detail that may not seem to matter but they really do so much for the perspective of his character and story because it makes Zamasu as whole in the anime feel like more of a complicated character. At the start, you see a young, bashful and down-to-earth Kaioshin who ultimately calls a spade a spade and knows of just how dangerous mortals can be and openly questions the system that he is a part of. He feels, given the role he has, that he doesn't have the true freedom of doing enough to curb the continuing cycle of violence that is tarnishing the imagine of the universe he is meant to protect and look over. Zamasu was clearing getting tired of being a bystander and actually wanted to be an active role as a Kaioshin and instead of just watching mayhem spontaneously unfold before him, and that is what makes his fall from grace all the more raw and amazing to watch. He had good intentions for the sake of his universe but the fashion of which he went about them became more extreme with how events would later unfold with him visiting the Babarians planet and encountering Goku. It's what makes him quite an awesome villain, and even to a degree, quite a tragic character. In the anime, he wasn't really evil to begin with. He was just jaded and disillusioned by what he saw and what he knew and took matters into his own hands. The manga played it more straight with him being a person who was just looking for an excuse to jump down the route of evil would.

I also really didn't like just how generically evil Goku Black and Zamasu were in the manga. In the anime, Goku Black was his own unique character with his own wonderful quirks. He was extremely sadistic, as well as savage in battle and also relished the opportunities to test his new power or abilities. But he was shown to be very pragmatic is his way of achieving his Zero Mortals Plan, never lost his composure when things didn't go his way and was also so formal with his speech pattern. And he never wasted an opportunity to display his superiority complex and his fixation on beauty. Nozawa performance certainly helped in elevating Goku Black's presence, but the style of Goku Black's writing in the anime just stood out so much more because of hos un-Toriyama it self at times.

What made the Goku Black and Zamasu paring so great in the anime was that they never turned on each-other, they both realized how much they needed each other and how they respected themselves. Here in the manga, it just comes across as it that Goku Black is Zamasu' lackey and underling. Despite the fact it was Goku Black who got the ball rolling with the entire plot of the arc. Goku Black is made to play the "submissive" role in the dynamic relationship of Goku Black and Zamasu.

Goku Black and Zamasu are the characters drive that arc, and are primarily responsible for why I love the arc so much. Especially in the case with Goku Black. And how they've been handled in the manga has left quite a bit to be desired.

Over the course of the arc, nothing really resonated with me. I didn't feel anything. Not sadness or anger or happiness. I just feel indifferent to all of this. There just wasn't enough for me to personally invest into the manga's interpretation of the the events of the Future Trunks arc. The anime gave me more incentives to get personally invested into and make me attached to Future Trunks story. Whether it be Haru, Maki, Earth's Resistance or Future Yajirobe, the anime gave me a reason to care more what occurs in Future Trunks world because he still had something to fight for and is seen as a beacon of hope that those who still remain on Earth look up to. It makes the Genki Dama Sword, while nonsensical in concept, works extremely well in a thematic sense because from the beginning of the arc to the end of it, Future Trunks was fighting valiantly for what remained of humanity in his world, and every step of the way, the humans that remained on Earth supported him every time things looked grim and he was looked up as the hope bringer for the world. So I find the idea of the humans that were left urging Future Trunks on so much that they innately gave him their power to slain an extreme misanthrope like Merged Zamasu very satisfying and cathartic. The manga also skipped Future Bulma's death which robbed the us of arguably its most emotional moment of the story. Why would Toyotaro skim over such a detail like that. It goes back to my point of giving me something to personally feel invested into with the story. Anime played up the nature of her death so well with Future Trunks PTSD influenced nightmares and hallucinations in the anime all the more dramatic and genuine because you personally witnessed the horrific nature of Future Bulma's demise as he did and you can sympathize with him on personal level as you can understand much more the mental trauma he is going through with the circumstances he has to deal with. These are all small things but it makes such a huge different to how much you attach yourself to his character and care more for his journey beyond a surface level.

I don't really like how the cast are far more upbeat about the fact that Future Trunks lost everything, excluding Future Mai, than they are in the anime. It's treating Future Trunks losing everything as more of a happy ending when it really isn't a happy ending. At all. The anime went for the bittersweet route and it works far better tonally. I do think Vegeta comforting a tearful Bulma was a nice touch. And Future Trunks never interacting with Gohan once at all in the arc in the manga is a major bummer.

I will say that the power scaling is at least workable in the manga and there is certainly less fat in the narrative. The art style remained consistent and very good, especially in the last few chapter of the arc. But that's all the manga has over the anime at with regards to the Future Trunks. It just lacks that "wow" factor that the anime gave us at times and it doesn't do enough to make me care for what happens. Having power consistency is one thing, but making me care about the fate of the characters and being personally invested in them is another. And the manga's interpretation of the events of the Future Trunks arc just didn't cut the mustard for me in that regard in comparison to the anime, despite the anime's shortcomings in itself.

Despite the nature of Merged Zamasu's defeat and his unexplained new SSJ form, Future Trunks felt like the central focus of his arc in the anime, for better or for worse. The manga made him feel like a supporting character who ultimately didn't feel needed in the plot 80% of the time.

[FortuneSSJ]

FT Trunks arc - Anime vs Manga

A lot of things I like in the anime came from Toei: Black's badass entrances, Goku vs Goku Black, FT Trunks being updated about everyone's lives, emphasis on his bond with Gohan, FT Yajirobe, Black stabbing Vegeta, FT Trunks/Goku vs Black/Zamasu, Goku Black's unique attacks, Black/Zamasu provoking Goku about his family's death, Goku's rage boost, FT Trunks SSJ Ikari, kid Trunks having a serious conversation with FT Trunks, Father-Son Galick Gun, Double Face Zamasu, FT Trunks Genki Sword and his farewell.

But just like the BOG and Champa arcs, there are some things the manga did better:

- Buu arc recap of FT Trunks timeline.
- Explanation of FT Trunks SSJ2 power.
- Only two trips back and forth instead of three.
- Mafuba is done by Goku instead of FT Trunks (This was my only problem with FT Trunks abilities in the anime).
- Vegeta's reason to fuse with Goku. In the anime he acts like the boring tsundere he is. In the manga he's convinced by FT Trunks speech about FT Bulma "HOPE" of wanting to meet him one more time before dying. That hit me! It was subtle and a beautiful way to show their love unlike the overdramatic "That's my Bulma!!!" crap.
- Vegeta's Gamma Burst Flash. I've been asking for Vegeta to get a new technique since he trained 3 years in the Time Chamber with Goku. Goku came up with SSB + Kaioken in the anime and Vegeta nothing. I will take this. I'm disappointed Toei still didn't give him anything new. Even in GT he got the Final Shine attack.

Neutral:
- SSJ Black. I'm glad Toyotaro didn't ignore Toriyama's notes, but I also understand why Toei didn't bother since Black was already confirmed to get stronger after each fight and he would soon have an unique form.

Zamasu's character

Present Zamasu and Immortal Zamasu were handled well, but Goku Black and Merged Zamasu are a joke compared to their anime counterparts.

Goku Black is a badass in the anime with badass entrances, unique abilities and never loses his cool no matter the situation. In the manga he's generic and loses his cool everytime something unexpected happens. There's nothing unique about him besides SSR which came from Toriyama and that says everything...

Merged Zamasu is a joke too. The anime gave him a halo and godlike abilities that support his role as the Supreme God he's supposed to be. In the manga there's nothing special about him. He spams Katchin blocks, attacks like Janemba and the clones are just like what happened in Metal Coola's movie. He's also a bodybuilder, something I don't think it fits his character.

I also liked the Double Face Merged Zamasu in the anime and how Gowasu connected that to the internal conflict it was happening inside him, because it gives depth to his character.

FT Trunks

Oh boy, I hate how Toyotaro handled FT Trunks! The arc is officially called "Future Trunks arc". It's supposed to be his big return. Doesn't matter if he needs help, it's his arc, his fight on his timeline. When I think of FT Trunks in the manga I only remember him running away, being a punching bag, being on the sidelines rooting for Goku/Vegeta and healing people. Something that any character can do, just replace the healing power with senzus. The little things he did on the frontlines are overshadowed by the uselessness he was most of time.

I will take the anime version! He was entertaining, assumed the main role like it's supposed to be and I have no problems with the power levels.

Best episodes and chapters

Episodes - 57, 61, 66
Chapters - 20, 22, 25

Best fight

Anime - SSB Goku and SSJ2 FT Trunks vs SSR Goku Black and Immortal Zamasu (episode 57).

Manga - SSB Goku vs Merged Zamasu.

Just like I thought, FT Trunks arc not being a arc based on a Tournament like Champa arc was gave more room to Toyotaro do his own thing, which made the manga version more entertaining and memorable than before. Unfortunately he will have same the problem in Universe Survival arc and with the amount of characters, I'm expecting the art quality to drop.

In both products it's still the best DBS arc by far, but the anime wins again and the gap is bigger than it was in Champa arc.
That's because a lot of things improved in the anime in this arc - darker tone, better fighter scenes, better pacing and better soundtrack. I still can't stop listening to Desperate Assault.

If the manga didn't manage to be better than the anime during the Champa arc when the production still had a lot of problems, I doubt it will ever have a chance now that the anime is better than ever. But that won't stop the manga of keep making some things better. Both products complement each other.

[Marlowe89]

There were definitely a few things I preferred in the manga's version of the arc. For one thing, some of it just made more sense -- the power-scaling was more cohesive and easy to understand almost throughout, the timeline stuff was given a little more thought and there weren't any unexplained transformations out of nowhere for the sake of quick drama -- not to mention that the artwork was straight-up gorgeous, especially during the latter half. On top of that, the main battles (Vegeta vs. Black, Goku vs. Fused Zamasu) also included a sort of tactical aspect that was largely absent in the anime's version of those fights, so it didn't just feel like a typical power struggle. I still believe Toyotaro's rendition could benefit from being adapted into an OVA or film because of the narrative's streamlined format.

Overall though? I'd have to give it to the anime in spades and it's really not even close. The writers did an excellent job providing some much-needed characterization for Black, Trunks, Gohan, Mai, etc. and frequently established a degree of tension and excitement that the manga just didn't have. Goku Black in particular is my favorite Dragon Ball villain almost solely due to his portrayal in the anime, being a sadistic yet cunning force of nature that cemented himself as a major threat from the get-go. Even his personality is slightly distinct from Zamasu's, with the dialogue itself hinting during a couple of instances that Black's thirst for fighting resulted from inhabiting Goku's body which absolutely gives his character more depth compared to the way it was handled in the manga. As Lord Beerus pointed out, Zamasu's downfall was also significantly more tragic in the anime. The minor Earthling characters also served to make the viewer actually care about Future Trunks' world, leading to the ending having a much greater impact when tragedy ultimately befell them. The anime certainly doesn't dance around the fact that Trunks' world was just wiped from existence, and it's hard not to feel sympathy for the protagonists and particularly those that perished in the wake of Zamasu's destruction when everything neared its conclusion. That intense struggle that Trunks himself went through just to protect everyone was brought to the forefront constantly, yet it was all for naught in the end, conveying an almost nihilistic approach to Dragon Ball that you wouldn't normally get from a series like this.

Both versions have their pros and cons, but I'd say the anime's pros vastly outweigh its cons whereas it's the opposite in the manga's case. Toyotaro just played it way too safe here, and as a result none of the events had nearly the same degree of excitement or intrigue. The anime took huge risks, and for the most part those risks paid off immensely.

[Kanassa]

- Vegeta's Gamma Burst Flash. I've been asking for Vegeta to get a new technique since he trained 3 years in the Time Chamber with Goku.

I wouldn't really call that a new technique.

[Kishido]

- Vegeta's Gamma Burst Flash. I've been asking for Vegeta to get a new technique since he trained 3 years in the Time Chamber with Goku.

I wouldn't really call that a new technique.

Yeah Vegeta got a new ki blast!!!

Fuck new forms, new abilities like Kaioken or other useful things.

For real now. Vegeta should stop his plain RoSaT and gravity training... take some advices from Piccolo, Goku and hell even Freeza

[The gr]

- Vegeta's Gamma Burst Flash. I've been asking for Vegeta to get a new technique since he trained 3 years in the Time Chamber with Goku.

I wouldn't really call that a new technique.

yes that is a new technique,here's a comparison between final flash and gamma burst

Final flash

gamma burst

[Kanassa]

- Vegeta's Gamma Burst Flash. I've been asking for Vegeta to get a new technique since he trained 3 years in the Time Chamber with Goku.

I wouldn't really call that a new technique.

yes that is a new technique,here's a comparison between final flash and gamma burst

Final flash

gamma burst

So... There's a tiny difference in the hand gesture?

[The gr]

I wouldn't really call that a new technique.

yes that is a new technique,here's a comparison between final flash and gamma burst

Final flash

gamma burst

So... There's a tiny difference in the hand gesture?

Pretty much and maybe it will have a different color,this is Vegeta third variation of the final flash

[Kanassa]

Pretty much and maybe it will have a different color,this is Vegeta third variation of the final flash

Ffinal Shine Attack was a much more visually different technique. This does not qualify as new when it's only a fraction of difference ahead of Final Flash

[The gr]

Pretty much and maybe it will have a different color,this is Vegeta third variation of the final flash

Ffinal Shine Attack was a much more visually different technique. This does not qualify as new when it's only a fraction of difference ahead of Final Flash

then the final flash shouldn't be a technique because is just similar to the attack that Vegeta used against recoome and we don't know the color of gamma burst flash maybe is red

[Kanassa]

Pretty much and maybe it will have a different color,this is Vegeta third variation of the final flash

Ffinal Shine Attack was a much more visually different technique. This does not qualify as new when it's only a fraction of difference ahead of Final Flash

then the final flash shouldn't be a technique because is just similar to the attack that Vegeta used against recoome and we don't know the color of gamma burst flash maybe is red

I thought the FInal Flash was that technique, it was just finally given a name

[The gr]

Ffinal Shine Attack was a much more visually different technique. This does not qualify as new when it's only a fraction of difference ahead of Final Flash

then the final flash shouldn't be a technique because is just similar to the attack that Vegeta used against recoome and we don't know the color of gamma burst flash maybe is red

I thought the FInal Flash was that technique, it was just finally given a name

Nope there different, the hand of Vegeta are placed differently to the final flash,here how it looks like

[HeroR]

I think it's obvious that my opinion is heavily in flavor of the Anime. And now that the arc has ended I can finally fully compare the two mediums. For the manga, as I've mentioned before, emotion is it's biggest pitfall. When I think of comparing the two mediums, I'd say the Anime is a story, the Manga is a checklist of plot points. At no point in the manga was I ever emotionally invested in the story, every character felt dry and the few attempts they had at getting across an emotional scene fell flat; it felt like the manga wanted to fast forward to the fights, but begrudgingly had to give context beforehand. You have Future Bulma die off screen and Trunks barely gives the time of day to be sad about it before he seemingly completely forgets about his fucked future. "Oh god, my mom died an- Oh look, video games!"

The character feel less like people expressing their personality, and more like those RP character creation forums where the member is listing the personality traits of their character. There seemed to be no effort put forth to try and get us to care about what was happening. The Anime actually gave a lot of character to the future timeline, showing us the remnants of humanity, their investment in this cause and their devotion to Trunks, being one of the few shonen anime's that tries to make you give a shit about the civilians. With the manga, it just expected that you care because the main character's faces are painted on the panels. Though that makes it a good point that the manga doesn't even bother to try and make Zeno erasing the timeline tragic, Toyo hasn't attempted any investment before hand, it would be dumb to start now.

I also enjoyed the implementation of out--the-box thinking with the use of the resistance, they came up with plans and methods to deal with a being that could kill them with his pinky. Some worked, some didn't. Seriously, why did it take until now for someone to think of biological weapons to use on the bad guys? Yyeha, they're strong, but they still have organs.

Now, onto the villains. Yes, I'm going with the popular opinion of the anime doing Black, but my reasons for disliking the manga version don't really stem much from that. IN the manga, Zamasu and Black are underwhelming and generic. Their problem is that they're not the anime versions, they're problem for me is that I can't ever take them the least bit seriously as characters or see them as anything more than losers in Goku and Vegeta's way. No matter what they do, I have little to no care. Zamasu could exterminate the earth, overpower Zeno and end the story sitting upon a giant throne made from the bones of Goku. And I'd still think he lost somehow. Though, as much as I joke about him stealing from almost every movie villain by the end, I actually did enjoy the techniques he used. Aside fro the cubes... Seriously, dude? Cubes? FUCKING CUBES?! You can do better then that, make a giant golem of katchin or something.

I hear a lot of disappointment over the fact that Manga!MergedZamasu's attacks aren't as flashy as Anime!MergedZamasu. But, as entertaining and cool to look at as those attacks were, I don't think they'd work in the manga. The divine and holy themed attacks work for Anime!Zamasu because it's supposed to show off the Godly being he has become. With Manga!Zamasu, their angle is more focused on reminding us that no matter what, Zamasu never really becomes a god. Which is why his fusion ends up failing. He's a being seeking godhood, but dragged down to the level of mortals by his sins.

The fights are definitely the manga's strength, the art is consistently very good (With the anime it's ht and miss), the choreography is usually top-notch, and while the homages is a problem; I really didn't start to notice them until the ending fight, so it didn't really impact my enjoyment. Though speaking of fights, something that both versions did was they had a set formula to their fights a lot of the time. This could be considered a problem with Dragonball in general, but it's more obvious in this arc. A lot of te fights in this arc boil down to...

Character A: Oh no, if only we had a convenient technique and/or item that could completely help us!
Character B: Oh wait! YOU DO!
Character A: Wow!

Seriously, both versions do this.

Trunks: Oh no, if only I could heal Vegeta and GOku or something...
Shin: Oh wait! You have the power to heal one of them to full strength!
Trunks: Neat!

Vegeta: Oh no, Zamasu's immortal! if only there was some technique that could seal him away or something!
Goku: Oh wait! There's always the mafuuba
Vegeta: HOW MANY TIMES COULD BE HAVE USED THAT!?

Black: Oh no, if only I could makes clones of myself to hold off Goku and Vegeta!
Rift in Time: Oh wai-
Black: WHAT THE FUCK!?

Now, what makes Black in the anime such an entertaining villain has been talked to death, so I don't think I need to beat that bloody corpse at the moment. What I do want to talk about is not Black himself, but his presence. In the anime, they didn't just have a good character, they had a character that was very effective on the narrative. Black had build, grim and proper build up. Both the anime and the Manga had the good and foreboding opening, but the anime went further. You get to see Black's effect on the story, on the character and the location. In meeting the resistance members and building up their rather simple characters, by extension we also build up Black's characters. We hear about the stories of the damage he's done, how much he's pushed the world to the brink with that psychotic grin imprinted on the memories of his victims. With Trunks, even before they go back to the future, we see just how much of an effect Black has had on him. To the point that Trunks's very psyche is threatened by the man, so nervous that he wakes up in a cold sweat, instinctively lashes out at Goku and even when training he can only imagine the multiple ways that Black butchers him. It reminds me of the days leading up to Frieza, where even in the filler you'd hear about him from both King Kai and other characters. I always though Frieza wasn't that good of a villain, but damn did he have some good build up.

In the Manga, Black's presence is not really felt that much. As soon as he steps up against Goku and Vegeta he's reduced to a whiny nine year old, and when he does get the upper hand it feels artificial because it seemed less on him as a villain and more on Vegeta. Which makes it much less impactful when characters get a good punch in. When Vegeta decimates Black in the anime, when Trunks gets to savour that first look of fear from Black, its kick-ass. But when it happens in the manga, it feels severely downgraded because Black was already humiliated, so this feels par for the course, not a rising point.

The most disappointing aspect to me is Trunks. No, I on't say he was completely useless, he did have his moments. But they felt arbitrary, and again, empty. It felt like it was the Cell saga all over again with Trunks being that cool character you like, but is really just there to go "This is the plot, have a nice day". He's yet again the side character when he should have the focus. It was frustrating in the Cell arc and it's still frustrating here. Also, on the point of Trunks/Gohan interaction; yeah, it was nice of TOEI to have that and it did lead to a emotional moment, but I disagree that it's NEEDED. Trunks being Gohan's student in Z felt like an after thought, it does feel off in the anime that NOW he decides to give a shit.

Now, the main points of discussion it the whole ridiculous VS Consistency between the Anime and Manga. Does the Anime leave many things unexplained and leads to some stupid plot holes? Yes. Does that take away from the quality of the arc? Fuck yes, there's so much stupid shit in the anime (And I say this as a person who enjoyed the Pilaf Gang). Is the manga more logical, consistent and makes much more sense? Yes, and I thank it for that. But when I'm looking at a product as a whole, the defining factor is one thing: Entertainment. Despite all the stupid shit, I enjoyed watching the Black arc in the anime, I got emotionally invested, I wanted to see what happened next and Ii cheered even when the bullshit painted the screen and actually got emotional at Dragonball when Trunks said his goodbyes to Gohan (Last time that happened was Krillin's second death), I enjoyed watching it. And that's why I still love it after watching the arc all over again two more times.

With the Manga? At first I was entertained, then I got annoyed at some points, until by the end I was just flat out bored.

Late, but your post reflects how I feel about the arc as whole to the story, to the characters, to how everything worked out. I especially laughed when I thought about Merged Zamasu making a giant golem of katchin, that would have been awesome. And that's very good point that Merged Zamasu's overall fighting style fits the manga since the anime played up that Merged Zamasu was this unstoppable fused god, while Manga Merged Zamasu was just a brute playing the supreme god. For the characters Manga Black and Future Zamasu were, it works very well and in retrospect, I don't think we were every supposed to take Zamasu in any form seriously. Nothing he did demanded respect or fear unlike every villain in the franchise.

What I disagree with you at is that the manga had good fights. The art may have been consistently, but the fights were meh except for Black vs Super Saiyan God Vegeta and Mastered Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku vs Merged Zamasu. Especially since the anime had a lot more team up fights like how Black and Future Zamasu fought together, giving up something different from the usual 1v1. The manga didn't have that. We didn't even get Goku and Vegeta working together. Almost everything was 1v1, even during parts where the heroes should have tried to mob the villain and it got frustrating and boring after awhile. By the end, I could only think 'hurry up!'. And on a personally note, I really hate how Toyo draws Zamasu and especially Merged Zamasu. His version of Black was alright until he decided to give him Majin Vegeta's eyes.

I also disagree on the characters having convenient techniques they don't used until the last minute. For one, in the anime Goku didn't know about the Evil Containment Wave. Piccolo did, but he didn't show up until after their second defeat to Black. There was no point before then that they could have learned about the Evil Containment Wave. The same with Goku since in the manga since he knew about the Evil Containment Wave, he didn't know how to do it or didn't think he need it. They also wouldn't used it sooner since Saiyans like straight fights and it's always better to kill your opponent then seal them, otherwise they could comeback like King Piccolo and Majin Buu. Zamasu was an exception since he was an immortal. Also, Black didn't set out to make clones. It was a complete accident after his power grew. I do agree, however, on Trunks suddenly knowing to heal coming out of nowhere and it's extremely contrived.

Finally, I disagree with the manga making more sense than the anime from a 'logical' point-of-view. The manga tries to give explanations, but most of the time what they give either creates plot holes, plot points that goes nowhere and could be cut off with no repercussions, or really don't make sense when you think about it. The anime often get crap on for not making sense even when it does tell us stuff or even implies what happens, but there are only a few times that I pause and go, 'what, that doesn't make sense', while the manga manages to do this to me almost every chapter.

For example: Black choosing Trunks' timeline because Beerus was dead thanks to Dabura, because Beerus was the most troublesome God of Destruction. This doesn't make sense since we know from the Universal Survival Saga and U7's low mortal ranking that Beerus is horrible at his job and the Gods of Destruction in Universes 1, 12, 11, 8, and 5 are more competent at their job then Beerus since they actually pay attention to their universes. So unless the manga is different from the anime in this respect, this makes Black's 'Beerus is the most troublesome god' comment nonsense. Especially since Beerus would be most likely still asleep since he only woke up 'early' in the main timeline to fight a Super Saiyan God.

[The gr]

Finally, I disagree with the manga making more sense than the anime from a 'logical' point-of-view. The manga tries to give explanations, but most of the time what they give either creates plot holes, plot points that goes nowhere and could be cut off with no repercussions, or really don't make sense when you think about it. The anime often get crap on for not making sense even when it does tell us stuff or even implies what happens, but there are only a few times that I pause and go, 'what, that doesn't make sense', while the manga manages to do this to me almost every chapter.

For example: Black choosing Trunks' timeline because Beerus was dead thanks to Dabura, because Beerus was the most troublesome God of Destruction. This doesn't make sense since we know from the Universal Survival Saga and U7's low mortal ranking that Beerus is horrible at his job and the Gods of Destruction in Universes 1, 12, 11, 8, and 5 are more competent at their job then Beerus since they actually pay attention to their universes. So unless the manga is different from the anime in this respect, this makes Black's 'Beerus is the most troublesome god' comment nonsense. Especially since Beerus would be most likely still asleep since he only woke up 'early' in the main timeline to fight a Super Saiyan God.

This is a statement that's true,how the hell did mz made a billion copies in chap 26 or why did mz didn't made clone of himself when vegito was chopping his arms or how did goku went to the future to find Zeno when the time ring is destroyed of that timeline or pilaf outsmarting Bulma which is insane ,he did not plan this well

[HeroR]

This is a statement that's true,how the hell did mz made a billion copies in chap 26 or why did mz didn't made clone of himself when vegito was chopping his arms or how did goku went to the future to find Zeno when the time ring is destroyed of that timeline or pilaf outsmarting Bulma which is insane ,he did not plan this well

I think the theory for that is that Merged Zamasu's 'regeneration' was out of wack after he defused and try to force to re-fused and that is how he made billions of clones from being blown up. Although, I don't think the manga actually said that.

I would also like the add that even without the Universal Survival Saga, we already know that Beerus was horrible at his job in the manga. In the Super manga Kibito noted that Beerus should have been the one to kill Buu, but he was asleep. So even in the story of the manga, Beerus isn't a good God of Destruction since he failed to handle Buu not once, but twice, yet he's somehow the most troublesome God of Destruction. Even ignoring that, how can Beerus be the most troublesome god when he didn't even bother to deal with Buu yet again in the future timeline which is how he end up dying? This is kind of what I mean when I said Toyo tries to explain stuff that makes sense at that moment, but then doesn't make sense upon further inspection.

[The gr]

I think the theory for that is that Merged Zamasu's 'regeneration' was out of wack after he defused and try to force to re-fused and that is how he made billions of clones from being blown up. Although, I don't think the manga actually said that.

I would also like the add that even without the Universal Survival Saga, we already know that Beerus was horrible at his job in the manga. In the Super manga Kibito noted that Beerus should have been the one to kill Buu, but he was asleep. So even in the story of the manga, Beerus isn't a good God of Destruction since he failed to handle Buu not once, but twice, yet he's somehow the most troublesome God of Destruction. Even ignoring that, how can Beerus be the most troublesome god when he didn't even bother to deal with Buu yet again in the future timeline which is how he end up dying? This is kind of what I mean when I said Toyo tries to explain stuff that makes sense at that moment, but then doesn't make sense upon further inspection.

No the manga didn't even bother with an explanation,compared the horde of mz in chap 25 to 26

Maybe Beerus is the most ruthless god of destruction compared to the other,that's the only thing I'm thinking right now we haven't seen the portrayal of the exempted gods who are ironically designed by toyo

[HeroR]

No the manga didn't even bother with an explanation,compared the horde of mz in chap 25 to 26

Maybe Beerus is the most ruthless god of destruction compared to the other,that's the only thing I'm thinking right now we haven't seen the portrayal of the exempted gods who are ironically designed by toyo

I have no explanation for that other than Toyo channeling Cooler Revenge. Although it was BS that a hurt and weakened Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Vegeta blasted two Merged Zamasu's to bits when it took Mastered Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku to do anything to Merged Zamasu. I don't think the manga said the clones got weaker like the Multiform.

Can't be since at least according to Toei's website, the multi-tailed fox god is the most ruthless God of Destruction. Again, could be different in the manga, but the descriptions sounds like something Toriyama wrote as a basic outline for each god.

[LightBing]

Beerus being troublesome doesn't necessarily relate to his job. Besides he can be sleeping for long periods of time and be extremely compete at his job while awake, like when he destroyed Present Zamasu, exactly what Black was worried about...

This complaint is based purely on conjecture, besides taking assumptions from material that it's not yet on the manga and which might be different from the anime version. I don't understand why people keep bringing anime points into the manga, every time...

Regarding Pilaf coming up with a solution, he's a genius and he's always been portrayed like so. I believe he's the only one capable of making a dragon radar as good as Bulma ever did, besides all the other mechas and crap he had.

Zamasu not multipling when he's hand were cut, that's because he didn't have the ability yet. It's not explained but it's implied. He gained the ability when he forcefully resisted the de-fusion. It's like in the anime, before being cut down Zamasu didn't have the ability to fuse with the Universe. I don't know, seemed pretty obvious to me.

[HeroR]

Beerus being troublesome doesn't necessarily relate to his job. Besides he can be sleeping for long periods of time and be extremely compete at his job while awake, like when he destroyed Present Zamasu, exactly what Black was worried about...

This complaint is based purely on conjecture, besides taking assumptions from material that it's not yet on the manga and which might be different from the anime version. I don't understand why people keep bringing anime points into the manga, every time...

Regarding Pilaf coming up with a solution, he's a genius and he's always been portrayed like so. I believe he's the only one capable of making a dragon radar as good as Bulma ever did, besides all the other mechas and crap he had.

Zamasu not multipling when he's hand were cut, that's because he didn't have the ability yet. It's not explained but it's implied. He gained the ability when he forcefully resisted the de-fusion. It's like in the anime, before being cut down Zamasu didn't have the ability to fuse with the Universe. I don't know, seemed pretty obvious to me.

Problem, the only reason why Beerus could kill Present Zamasu was by a twist of fate. Namely, Beerus was only awake to begin with to fight a Super Saiyan God, not to actually do his job. If there was no Goku, Beerus would still be sleeping as the future timeline showed us. He also only knew about Zamasu's plan because of Trunks, otherwise Black would have never succeeded in the first place. What Beerus did isn't a sign of him being competent. More lucky.

Also, even awake Beerus isn't good at his job because he destroys stuff for petty reasons, something a God of Destruction is supposed to be thoughtful about, and trapped his own fellow god in a sword.

And I gave examples that are not only in the anime, but also the manga. The manga told us that Beerus is horrible at his job and can't even be bother to handle Buu despite it being part of his job, which actually got him killed in the future timeline. Black could have done that himself without Dabura. And unless the manga doesn't have mortal ratings, universes not being in the tournament because of their high mortal ranking and competent gods, and the bios on the website just being stuff Toei made up, I don't see how Zamasu's "troublesome god" statement works for Beerus.

In the anime, Merged Zamasu fused with the universe because his body was destroyed. The only way he could have done it before was for him to destroy his own body, which really wouldn't make much sense since he was winning until Future Trunks gutted him. In the manga, it never explained how Merged Zamasu gained his multiple ability after defusing. It only explained how Black and Future Zamasu both became Merged Zamasu.