Super's Manga vs Super's Anime Discussion

[SupremeKai25]

Yes Manga Vegetto punked manga Zamasu [that's how it should be] but this has nothing to do with Vegetto. Non of this changes the fact that fused Zamasu was embarrassed/injured in the anime by a fatigue Goku.

Again, Fused Zamasu was never embarassed by a fatigued Goku. Goku had to use his most powerful Kamehameha ever, and it was so strong that it broke his arms (so how was he exhausted if he could fire such a massive attack?). And even then, he couldn't really push back the Holy Wrath, he could only pierce it, catcing Fused Zamasu by surprise. And even so, Goku couldn't finish the job. It took an even greater power to take advantage of Fused Zamasu's weakness. Lastly, let us not forget that Fused Zamasu had been stomping effortlessly those beasts for the vast majority of episode 65.

Cause Goku actually needed a powerful new mode to compete against a fused character.

The anime incarnation of the arc was centered more around Future Trunks, and indeed he required a powerful new transformation to deal with this new enemy that was Zamasu, and a powerful new technique to deal with this fused character.

But in the anime Goku is on life support

A Saiyan 'on life support' does not conjure an attack so powerful that it breaks their arms.

Some of the worst writing in DB history.

We agree on that. Goku SHOULDN'T have overpowered Fused Zamasu. Even so, it was not such a devastating and humiliating defeat. Especially since Fused Zamasu grew stronger from that minor setback, and evolved into a new, even more powerful, and grotesque form.

Oh, And small reminder that Fused Zamasu ultimately merged with the Universe and became order and justice itself, and was able to transcend time and space and even defeat effortlessly his opponents. Hahaha, some 'humiliation' he suffered.

[Bergamo]

Yes Manga Vegetto punked manga Zamasu [that's how it should be] but this has nothing to do with Vegetto. Non of this changes the fact that fused Zamasu was embarrassed/injured in the anime by a fatigue Goku.

Again, Fused Zamasu was never embarassed by a fatigued Goku. Goku had to use his most powerful Kamehameha ever, and it was so strong that it broke his arms (so how was he exhausted if he could fire such a massive attack?). And even then, he couldn't really push back the Holy Wrath, he could only pierce it, catcing Fused Zamasu by surprise. And even so, Goku couldn't finish the job. It took an even greater power to take advantage of Fused Zamasu's weakness. Lastly, let us not forget that Fused Zamasu had been stomping effortlessly those beasts for the vast majority of episode 65.

Cause Goku actually needed a powerful new mode to compete against a fused character.

The anime incarnation of the arc was centered more around Future Trunks, and indeed he required a powerful new transformation to deal with this new enemy that was Zamasu, and a powerful new technique to deal with this fused character.

But in the anime Goku is on life support

A Saiyan 'on life support' does not conjure an attack so powerful that it breaks their arms.

Some of the worst writing in DB history.

We agree on that. Goku SHOULDN'T have overpowered Fused Zamasu. Even so, it was not such a devastating and humiliating defeat. Especially since Fused Zamasu grew stronger from that minor setback, and evolved into a new, even more powerful, and grotesque form.

Oh, And small reminder that Fused Zamasu ultimately merged with the Universe and became order and justice itself, and was able to transcend time and space and even defeat effortlessly his opponents. Hahaha, some 'humiliation' he suffered.

People at full strength don't break their arms when they fire ki blasts. I think his broken arms are evidence that he was heavily damaged.

[Miracles]

Yes Manga Vegetto punked manga Zamasu [that's how it should be] but this has nothing to do with Vegetto. Non of this changes the fact that fused Zamasu was embarrassed/injured in the anime by a fatigue Goku.

Again, Fused Zamasu was never embarassed by a fatigued Goku. Goku had to use his most powerful Kamehameha ever, and it was so strong that it broke his arms (so how was he exhausted if he could fire such a massive attack?). And even then, he couldn't really push back the Holy Wrath, he could only pierce it, catcing Fused Zamasu by surprise. And even so, Goku couldn't finish the job. It took an even greater power to take advantage of Fused Zamasu's weakness. Lastly, let us not forget that Fused Zamasu had been stomping effortlessly those beasts for the vast majority of episode 65.

Cause Goku actually needed a powerful new mode to compete against a fused character.

The anime incarnation of the arc was centered more around Future Trunks, and indeed he required a powerful new transformation to deal with this new enemy that was Zamasu, and a powerful new technique to deal with this fused character.

But in the anime Goku is on life support

A Saiyan 'on life support' does not conjure an attack so powerful that it breaks their arms.

Some of the worst writing in DB history.

We agree on that. Goku SHOULDN'T have overpowered Fused Zamasu. Even so, it was not such a devastating and humiliating defeat. Especially since Fused Zamasu grew stronger from that minor setback, and evolved into a new, even more powerful, and grotesque form.

Oh, And small reminder that Fused Zamasu ultimately merged with the Universe and became order and justice itself, and was able to transcend time and space and even defeat effortlessly his opponents. Hahaha, some 'humiliation' he suffered.

I don't think you are understanding...It doesn't matter if Goku was fatigued or not [which he was], a single character has no business overpowering a fused character of that level and also injuring THEM followed up by a combo loop with Broken arms!!! It was a straight up embarrassment for anime fused Zamasu.

[OLKv3]

Can we kill the stupid "Trunks didn't do anything in his own arc" nonsense that people use against the manga? It's blatantly untrue. He accomplished the same things he did in the anime, the only difference is he didn't get an insane powerup out of nowhere

[SupremeKai25]

I don't think you are understanding...It doesn't matter if Goku was fatigued or not [which he was], a single character has no business overpowering a fused character of that level and also injuring THEM followed up by a combo loop with Broken arms!!! It was a straight up embarrassment for anime fused Zamasu.

Even if Fused Zamasu was embarassed by Goku, in the end he 'redeemed' himself, as he put up a very good fight against both Vegito and Trunks, and was able to ascend and become the Universe itself, to the point that it took the King of All himself to defeat him.

Also, To be fair, Fused Zamasu was not expecting that Goku would pierce through his Holy Wrath. And indeed you could see the shock in his eyes when the Kamehameha suddenly appeared in front of him. Goku is guilty of this several times too. He lost his focus and attention several times during his many battles, such as when he got distracted fighting Kefla and was knocked unconcious. Or Kefla herself who wasn't expecting that Goku would use his Kamehameha in such a creative way and was eliminated as a result of her lack of attention. Point is, there was a common mistake at the origin of Goku winning over Fused Zamasu, a mistake that the vast majority of characters in this show have committed at least once in their lives.

I am fond of this. While I still have a grip over Goku overpowering Fused Zamasu, it shows that it doesn't matter if you are fused or not, nor how much power you have, if you get distracted during a fight at a crucial moment, there will be severe consequences. Indeed, manga Fused Zamasu was also distracted while figthing Goku. When he charged at Goku, he failed to anticipate the Hakai, and was lucky that Mai was within his reach to use as a meatshield, otherwise there would have been drastic consequences.

And that's fine. It truly is. It shows that Fused Zamasu was getting stressed and desperate over the constant defiance of mortals, and thus was losing his focus and composure.

Can we kill the stupid "Trunks didn't do anything in his own arc" nonsense that people use against the manga? It's blatantly untrue. He accomplished the same things he did in the anime, the only difference is he didn't get an insane powerup out of nowhere

I never said that? I said that the anime was centered more around Future Trunks (indeed, he was the one to receive a new transformation, not Goku or Vegeta), I never said that Trunks didn't do anything in the manga.

[JazzMazz]

If your definition of getting beaten is getting knocked to the ground and receiving damage then I still don’t see how that isn’t also applicable to the manga version of merged Zamasu.

Also, I don't see how Goku's use of KaioKen in knocking down Zamasu isn't equivalent with say Goku using completed Blue in the manga.

Cause Goku actually needed a powerful new mode to compete against a fused character. The story is more believable that way. Still couldn't beat fused Zamasu either. But in the anime Goku is on life support and overpowers a fused Zamasu. Even injuring him in the process, lolol. Some of the worst writing in DB history.

Context is important. Goku's on life support in the anime, because his pushing his body past his limits to injure merged Zamasu and that's all he accomplishes. He injures Zamasu, and knocks him off his high horse using his most powerful technique that possesses power beyond that of Blue, before clocking out. All of which, only served to further piss of and unhinge Zamasu.

I don't see how this isn't directly comparable to the manga still, as Goku in the manga, was still basically exploding from over-using his power, and suffering adverse side effects just like in the anime.

[Miracles]

Context is important. Goku's on life support in the anime, because his pushing his body past his limits to injure merged Zamasu and that's all he accomplishes. He injures Zamasu, and knocks him off his high horse using his most powerful technique that possesses power beyond that of Blue, before clocking out. All of which, only served to further piss of and unhinge Zamasu.

I don't see how this isn't directly comparable to the manga still, as Goku in the manga, was still basically exploding from over-using his power, and suffering adverse side effects just like in the anime.

Let's apply the context then, Goku is on life support cause he previously was battling fused Zamasu with Vegeta. Even with Broken arms he STILL combo looped fused Zamasu...Pathetic.

Even if Fused Zamasu was embarassed by Goku, in the end he 'redeemed' himself, as he put up a very good fight against both Vegito and Trunks, and was able to ascend and become the Universe itself, to the point that it took the King of All himself to defeat him.

Also, To be fair, Fused Zamasu was not expecting that Goku would pierce through his Holy Wrath. And indeed you could see the shock in his eyes when the Kamehameha suddenly appeared in front of him. Goku is guilty of this several times too. He lost his focus and attention several times during his many battles, such as when he got distracted fighting Kefla and was knocked unconcious. Or Kefla herself who wasn't expecting that Goku would use his Kamehameha in such a creative way and was eliminated as a result of her lack of attention. Point is, there was a common mistake at the origin of Goku winning over Fused Zamasu, a mistake that the vast majority of characters in this show have committed at least once in their lives.

I am fond of this. While I still have a grip over Goku overpowering Fused Zamasu, it shows that it doesn't matter if you are fused or not, nor how much power you have, if you get distracted during a fight at a crucial moment, there will be severe consequences. Indeed, manga Fused Zamasu was also distracted while figthing Goku. When he charged at Goku, he failed to anticipate the Hakai, and was lucky that Mai was within his reach to use as a meatshield, otherwise there would have been drastic consequences.

And that's fine. It truly is. It shows that Fused Zamasu was getting stressed and desperate over the constant defiance of mortals, and thus was losing his focus and composure.

I'm glad you admitted fused Zamaus was embarrassed by Goku and it was some of the worst writing in DB history.

[SupremeKai25]

Let's apply the context then, Goku is on life support cause he previously was battling fused Zamasu with Vegeta. Even with Broken arms he STILL combo looped fused Zamasu...Pathetic.

Yeah, Hahaha, Fused Zamasu is so pathetic!

(even though he merged with the fabric of the universe and transcended time and space and indirectly caused the eradication of an entire timeline, and even Trunks admitted that he failed to defend his world)

I'm glad you admitted fused Zamaus was embarrassed by Goku and it was some of the worst writing in DB history.

Everyone has been embarassed at least once in their lives. Even Zeno. I fail to see how that denigrates Fused Zamasu in any way. If anything, the fact that Fused Zamasu was brilliantly able to turn that humiliation into an advantage and grow even more powerful than before is proof to his untold potential, astonishing resourcefulness and limitless acumen.

[JazzMazz]

Context is important. Goku's on life support in the anime, because his pushing his body past his limits to injure merged Zamasu and that's all he accomplishes. He injures Zamasu, and knocks him off his high horse using his most powerful technique that possesses power beyond that of Blue, before clocking out. All of which, only served to further piss of and unhinge Zamasu.

I don't see how this isn't directly comparable to the manga still, as Goku in the manga, was still basically exploding from over-using his power, and suffering adverse side effects just like in the anime.

Let's apply the context then, Goku is on life support cause he previously was battling fused Zamasu with Vegeta. Even with Broken arms he STILL combo looped fused Zamasu...Pathetic.

I'm glad that you admitted that merged Zamasu is pathetic in both incarnations, that was how he was intended to come off in both iterations.

Also, yes Goku broke both his arms, but I wouldn't exactly say that's life support. The events after the fact I would say more contributed to that. He literally lasted less than a minute against Zamasu before conking out, even with his power beyond Blue, and even then, it only strengthened Zamasu's resolve to grow stronger, in contrast to him simply wanting to destroy himself in order to destroy Goku.

[Miracles]

I'm glad that you admitted that merged Zamasu is pathetic in both incarnations, that was how he was intended to come off in both iterations.

Also, yes Goku broke both his arms, but I wouldn't exactly say that's life support. The events after the fact I would say more contributed to that. He literally lasted less than a minute against Zamasu before conking out, even with his power beyond Blue, and even then, it only strengthened Zamasu's resolve to grow stronger, in contrast to him simply wanting to destroy himself in order to destroy Goku.

lol
Nothing Zamasu did after changes the fact that it was shameful for anime fused Zamasu to get pwned like that. Manga Zamasu actually had dignity by fighting a new mode Goku with Hakai equally.

[JazzMazz]

I'm glad that you admitted that merged Zamasu is pathetic in both incarnations, that was how he was intended to come off in both iterations.

Also, yes Goku broke both his arms, but I wouldn't exactly say that's life support. The events after the fact I would say more contributed to that. He literally lasted less than a minute against Zamasu before conking out, even with his power beyond Blue, and even then, it only strengthened Zamasu's resolve to grow stronger, in contrast to him simply wanting to destroy himself in order to destroy Goku.

lol
Nothing Zamasu did after changes the fact that it was shameful for anime fused Zamasu to get pwned like that. Manga Zamasu actually had dignity by fighting a new mode Goku with Hakai equally.

Its ironic that you bring up Zamasu fighting Goku blue using Hakai as your example of Zamasu fighting with dignity, when literally anyone that read that chapter could tell you that how Zamasu conducted himself during that fight was shameful, hell, even Zamasu admitted how he fought in that encounter was shameful.

[SupremeKai25]

I'm glad that you admitted that merged Zamasu is pathetic in both incarnations, that was how he was intended to come off in both iterations.

Also, yes Goku broke both his arms, but I wouldn't exactly say that's life support. The events after the fact I would say more contributed to that. He literally lasted less than a minute against Zamasu before conking out, even with his power beyond Blue, and even then, it only strengthened Zamasu's resolve to grow stronger, in contrast to him simply wanting to destroy himself in order to destroy Goku.

lol
Nothing Zamasu did after changes the fact that it was shameful for anime fused Zamasu to get pwned like that. Manga Zamasu actually had dignity by fighting a new mode Goku with Hakai equally.

At least Fused Zamasu did not fall so low as to resort to using a filthy mortal scum as a shield to survive like his manga counterpart.

[Miracles]

Its ironic that you bring up Zamasu fighting Goku blue using Hakai as your example of Zamasu fighting with dignity, when literally anyone that read that chapter could tell you that how Zamasu conducted himself during that fight was shameful, hell, even Zamasu admitted how he fought in that encounter was shameful.

That was the end of the match...Before all that he was dignified. Yet he still partially regenerated from Hakai. As long as he didn't get styled on with no arms.

At least Fused Zamasu did not fall so low as to resort to using a filthy mortal scum as a shield to survive like his manga counterpart.

Oh yea, use those filthy ningen.

[SupremeKai25]

Also, manga Fused Zamasu was completely immortal, of course he never had to put up with the problems that anime Fused Zamasu had, which includes (but is not limited to), a flawed regeneration ability and a grotesque form. Let's see how long manga Fused Zamasu would have resisted had his immortality been damaged too.

It is clear that the writers of the anime had no idea on how to handle Fused Zamasu, and so came up with a silly excuse to give him a downside. It never made sense that Fused Zamasu was only half immortal because half of his body was mortal. When Vegito was born in the Buu saga, he was not on the verge of life and death simply because a living Saiyans merged with a dead one. He was 100% alive. And so it should have been the same with Fused Zamasu, he should have been 100% immortal like in the anime.

Perhaps the only problem is that anime Fused Zamasu was much more powerful than manga Fused Zamasu, and that is clear by the difference in how they handled Vegito, and also by the fact that it took two asspulls (Goku going beyond his limits for the 32th time in this series and Trunks' sword of love and friendship) to defeat him.

Lastly, manga Fused Zamasu was pretty desperate too, when he resorted to increasing his power exponentially to destroy the galaxy. Zamasu never desired to destroy the galaxy, but simply to cleanse it and dominate it, so the fact that the manga version made such an effort, but the anime version didn't, proves that manga Fused Zamasu was truly desperate.

[Bergamo]

Also, manga Fused Zamasu was completely immortal, of course he never had to put up with the problems that anime Fused Zamasu had, which includes (but is not limited to), a flawed regeneration ability and a grotesque form. Let's see how long manga Fused Zamasu would have resisted had his immortality been damaged too.

It is clear that the writers of the anime had no idea on how to handle Fused Zamasu, and so came up with a silly excuse to give him a downside. It never made sense that Fused Zamasu was only half immortal because half of his body was mortal. When Vegito was born in the Buu saga, he was not on the verge of life and death simply because a living Saiyans merged with a dead one. He was 100% alive. And so it should have been the same with Fused Zamasu, he should have been 100% immortal like in the anime.

Perhaps the only problem is that anime Fused Zamasu was much more powerful than manga Fused Zamasu, and that is clear by the difference in how they handled Vegito, and also by the fact that it took two asspulls (Goku going beyond his limits for the 32th time in this series and Trunks' sword of love and friendship) to defeat him.

Lastly, manga Fused Zamasu was pretty desperate too, when he resorted to increasing his power exponentially to destroy the galaxy. Zamasu never desired to destroy the galaxy, but simply to cleanse it and dominate it, so the fact that the manga version made such an effort, but the anime version didn't, proves that manga Fused Zamasu was truly desperate.

I think that they were both very desperate. They both had started failing to regenerate, and they both ended up losing their form. I think there are many differences between the interpretations of MZ, but who was more desperate and who got embarrassed harder aren't really notable.

[JazzMazz]

Its ironic that you bring up Zamasu fighting Goku blue using Hakai as your example of Zamasu fighting with dignity, when literally anyone that read that chapter could tell you that how Zamasu conducted himself during that fight was shameful, hell, even Zamasu admitted how he fought in that encounter was shameful.

That was the end of the match...Before all that he was dignified. Yet he still partially regenerated from Hakai. As long as he didn't get styled on with no arms.

At least Fused Zamasu did not fall so low as to resort to using a filthy mortal scum as a shield to survive like his manga counterpart.

Oh yea, use those filthy ningen.

Have you actually read the manga? Seriously? Or better yet, do you know being dignified actually means?

I'll tell you. According to the oxford dictionary, it means the following.Having or showing a composed or serious manner that is worthy of respect.

Though its true merged Zamasu lost a great deal of dignity after getting rofl stomped by Goku for all of 5 seconds, merged Zamasu was never really dignified, or possessing in dignity. He was, from beginning to end, a petulant, visibly psychopathic, megalomaniacal asshole, without even the remotest sense of divine dignity and composure to him.

[Miracles]

Have you actually read the manga? Seriously? Or better yet, do you know being dignified actually means?

I'll tell you. According to the oxford dictionary, it means the following.Having or showing a composed or serious manner that is worthy of respect.

Though its true merged Zamasu lost a great deal of dignity after getting rofl stomped by Goku for all of 5 seconds, merged Zamasu was never really dignified, or possessing in dignity. He was, from beginning to end, a petulant, visibly psychopathic, megalomaniacal asshole, without even the remotest sense of divine dignity and composure to him.

Dignity; as worthy of respect, more so than anime Zamas, who got pwned by a Goku with asthma.

[SupremeKai25]

Dignity; as worthy of respect, more so than anime Zamas, who got pwned by a Goku with asthma.

Fused Zamasu was never 'pwned' by Goku, He was overpowered for a brief moment. This happens to everyone, How many times has Goku been overpowered momentarily in his life? A hundred times? The fact that Goku broke his own arms due to the power he needed to push back Fused Zamasu's Holy Wrath, if anything, is indeed worthy of note.

Also, At least Fused Zamasu appeared for longer than 5 minutes, unlike another fused warrior!

Regardless, this whole debate was never about dignity, was it? No, It was about how anime Fused Zamasu's techniques are much more creative and unique than manga Fused Zamasu's, who borrowed most of his techniques from other characters. It is therefore not a surprise that every videogame so far has always chosen to include anime Fused Zamasu over the manga version of the character.

[OLKv3]

Also, manga Fused Zamasu was completely immortal, of course he never had to put up with the problems that anime Fused Zamasu had, which includes (but is not limited to), a flawed regeneration ability and a grotesque form. Let's see how long manga Fused Zamasu would have resisted had his immortality been damaged too.

It is clear that the writers of the anime had no idea on how to handle Fused Zamasu, and so came up with a silly excuse to give him a downside. It never made sense that Fused Zamasu was only half immortal because half of his body was mortal. When Vegito was born in the Buu saga, he was not on the verge of life and death simply because a living Saiyans merged with a dead one. He was 100% alive. And so it should have been the same with Fused Zamasu, he should have been 100% immortal like in the anime.

Perhaps the only problem is that anime Fused Zamasu was much more powerful than manga Fused Zamasu, and that is clear by the difference in how they handled Vegito, and also by the fact that it took two asspulls (Goku going beyond his limits for the 32th time in this series and Trunks' sword of love and friendship) to defeat him.

Lastly, manga Fused Zamasu was pretty desperate too, when he resorted to increasing his power exponentially to destroy the galaxy. Zamasu never desired to destroy the galaxy, but simply to cleanse it and dominate it, so the fact that the manga version made such an effort, but the anime version didn't, proves that manga Fused Zamasu was truly desperate.

He wasn't desperate there, he was pissed off. He thought he was the shit and some stupid ningen matched his power. I wouldn't call Zamasu desperate in the anime or manga, except for the part where Goku Hakai'd him in the manga. That was actual desperation because he believed he would die. I actually loved that moment until the following chapter made it pointless.

[Mattias_]

The manga version is a wonderful relate.

The anime version is just, well...... crap sometimes, you know...