The Universe Survival arc is looking to be handled poorly.

[Octorockandroll]

It seems your entire point here can be summed up in an even smaller TL:DR which is: "Toppo didn't win, thus making the tournament not dramatic enough"

I don't really understand why people are saying Toppo was getting floor mopped and that he was a pushover. He was able to take an SSB Warp Kamehameha to the face, to which Beerus even expresses that Goku's killed him. He didn't kill him, in fact he barely scratched him. The next argument is that Goku didn't use Kaioken yet, which to that I say, we didn't see Toppo use all of his power either. It's pretty clear Toppo had a lot more power judging by his red power-up when Goku went kaioken.

I don't know how the rest of the match would have gone, but to say that Toppo wasn't even a match for Goku is a severe understatement. For all intents and purposes they were near even. Toppo didn't win, but he didn't lose either. If he's almost even with Goku, then that matches the drama you're looking for with the reveal towards Jiren.

My biggest complaint of this arc has to be the "40 hour" thing. How much do you want to bet that in those forty hours, minimal training will take place, and Whis and Beerus will have absolutely no part in training the team? I can almost guarantee that this is what's going to happen. It's going to be extremely nonsensical, but I'm positive that the reveal of only 40 hours confirms that all the U7 members will be going into the tournament basically the way they are now.

I'm not saying that Goku mopped the floor with Toppo or that they needed to have Toppo win to be dramatic, but I am saying that's what would have been most productive to what they're trying to do here.

[Lord Frieza]

If sweat drops and worried looks ment "I'm gonna have trouble/I'm gonna lose" then Goku should have gotten his ass kicked by Nappa back in the saiyan arc, Piccolo would have lost to imperfect Cell and RoF Final Form Frieza was stronger the base Goku. But in all of those cases that was not the case based on context.

He didn't sweat against Nappa during their fight in the anime. In the manga, Goku only had one barely visible sweat drop, while Nappa himself was drenched in sweat and quivering with rage. Do I need to explain who has the advantage here based on sweat count?

Piccolo was sweating to sell the act that he was at a disadvantage, and earlier because he was disturbed at what was happening. You're right about the context, and that's why you shouldn't have used this example because it's not the same context.

I don't know when base Goku sweated against final form Freeza. The movie? The manga? The anime? I checked the anime but didn't see it in my brief skimming.

Also, one sweat drop is not the same indicator of distress as multiple sweat drops.

— The Sweat Drop Whisperer

First I would like to refer you back you your statement..

"If one combatant has sweat drops and their opponent doesn't, that means they're at a disadvantage. That's shonen 101."

Now you made no distinction about the number of swear drops having any official meaning, so next time please make your point more clear from the get go so no confusion is made at the start.

Part one about Goku v Nappa was is part of the "worried looks" category of my argumant and out of context you would thing Goku was having trouble, my point being people read way to much into looks.

Piccolo has 1, 2, 3, 4 and ...5 sweat drops when Cell pulls his Kamehameha on him, and I would also point this is quit a bit before he tries to act weaker then he really is. Its shock but by your original statement it should mean Piccolo is in trouble.

Just after Frieza "Takes his final form from the start" both Goku and Gets have one sweat drop a piece while Frieza has none, once again going by your original statement they should be toast.

Glade we cleared this up any way.

[Simere]

It's a lot of work and thought, for me anyway, to pedantic proof a post. I'd rather just clarify later on if there's a misunderstanding. Even with all the pedants around here.

The point, and it looks like you agree as well, is that sweating is always an indication of something that character is feeling. Frustration, anger, awkwardness, nervousness, fear—it depends on the context. For the context Toppo was in, the only thing his sweating could mean was that he was having a hard time of things. And it's noteworthy that Goku, in that moment, wasn't.

[dragonballgeek]

I don't really understand why people are saying Toppo was getting floor mopped and that he was a pushover. He was able to take an SSB Warp Kamehameha to the face, to which Beerus even expresses that Goku's killed him. He didn't kill him, in fact he barely scratched him. The next argument is that Goku didn't use Kaioken yet, which to that I say, we didn't see Toppo use all of his power either. It's pretty clear Toppo had a lot more power judging by his red power-up when Goku went kaioken.

I don't know how the rest of the match would have gone, but to say that Toppo wasn't even a match for Goku is a severe understatement. For all intents and purposes they were near even. Toppo didn't win, but he didn't lose either. If he's almost even with Goku, then that matches the drama you're looking for with the reveal towards Jiren.

Seriously! That move blew Cell's torso clean off when Goku was weaker, but Toppo is a little scorched and his suit is ripped. He was ready to give Goku a fight before the Grand Priest stopped them.

Are you looking at it from Toppos perspective too? He was unsure if he'd even be able to take Goku in the tournament while Goku is still pretty confident. Goku isn't one to underestimate his opponents often so I think he was pretty confident in his abilities.

It's little subtle hints that give away Goku has a Trump Card since he's not too worried about anything. Most likely the mastery of Kaioken.

That and this could all just be a gag between the grand priestand Zeno so Goku can get the fight he wants

[Boo Machine]

There are no hard set rules to a tourny arc. I'd say every universe hating Gokus guts makes the tournament pretty dramatic. Especially with the pride troopers and them seeing Goku as the bad guy.

Not to say the tournament is set up perfectly. But I wouldn't say poorly.

[Asura]

I don't really understand why people are saying Toppo was getting floor mopped and that he was a pushover. He was able to take an SSB Warp Kamehameha to the face, to which Beerus even expresses that Goku's killed him. He didn't kill him, in fact he barely scratched him. The next argument is that Goku didn't use Kaioken yet, which to that I say, we didn't see Toppo use all of his power either. It's pretty clear Toppo had a lot more power judging by his red power-up when Goku went kaioken.

I don't know how the rest of the match would have gone, but to say that Toppo wasn't even a match for Goku is a severe understatement. For all intents and purposes they were near even. Toppo didn't win, but he didn't lose either. If he's almost even with Goku, then that matches the drama you're looking for with the reveal towards Jiren.

Seriously! That move blew Cell's torso clean off when Goku was weaker, but Toppo is a little scorched and his suit is ripped. He was ready to give Goku a fight before the Grand Priest stopped them.

Are you looking at it from Toppos perspective too? He was unsure if he'd even be able to take Goku in the tournament while Goku is still pretty confident. Goku isn't one to underestimate his opponents often so I think he was pretty confident in his abilities.

It's little subtle hints that give away Goku has a Trump Card since he's not too worried about anything. Most likely the mastery of Kaioken.

That and this could all just be a gag between the grand priestand Zeno so Goku can get the fight he wants

Goku never panics. Even when he's getting his shit kicked in he still has that confident look on his face. I doubt Goku is 100% confident that he could easily take on Toppo, or the rest of that tournament for that matter. Every time Beerus yells at Goku to make things right, and asks him if he'll win Goku basically just says "How should I know?"

There's not even much reassurance or confidence on Goku's part. He's flat out telling Beerus that he's not sure if he can win, but tells him not to worry cause they've got Gohan.

But yes, he is being way too nonchalant about the entire thing. I don't think it's particularly due to confidence though. My bet is still on the "gag between zeno/goku" thing so goku can get better fights if the enemy thinks their universe is gonna be destroyed.

[KingKaash]

I completely disagree with Toppo not being a threat. I think he's a massive threat. He didn't power up in any sort of way and took on a point blank SSB Kamehameha to only have a few scratches and a tear in his Pride Trooper suit. They're clearly on par with each other. Even if Goku uses KK SSB then Toppo will have some kind of power up too. He did not lose to Goku in that match in any way to me.

[Simere]

I completely disagree with Toppo not being a threat. I think he's a massive threat. He didn't power up in any sort of way and took on a point blank SSB Kamehameha to only have a few scratches and a tear in his Pride Trooper suit. They're clearly on par with each other. Even if Goku uses KK SSB then Toppo will have some kind of power up too. He did not lose to Goku in that match in any way to me.

Stop trying to argue how strong Toppo is and start thinking about this from a narrative perspective. Introducing a much bigger threat than than the one you already know shifts the focus away from that now lesser threat; like the Androids and Cell. Suddenly the audience is forced to start thinking what this new challenge is all about and what can be done to overcome it, while the previous one no longer seems as important. The characters themselves do it.

Toppo is done for Goku, it's over. Let it go. This should be obvious. Is Goku fighting Toppo or Jiren in the opening?

[sangofe]

I dunno, I have no complaints. I'm lovin' it so far.

[MozillaVulpix]

I get the complaint, but...the tournament hasn't even started yet! In some of the Dragon Ball tournaments, you didn't really know who was going to be the big threat and what the overall themes of the fights were going to be about until all the contestants lined up and started talking to each other. Same with the Universe 6 tournament and Hit. Here, we have only met 4 fighters from only 2 different universes out of a total of 7. And at the very least, this tournament has established its themes pretty well in the exhibition match. That is, it's about other people pointing out Goku's flaws and self-proclaimed 'Champions of Justice' being upset at his apparent selfishness. That's more than I can say for a lot of the other tournament arcs.

Although it is interesting that in the original previews for the USA, it looked like Jiren was going to be at the exhibition match instead of Toppo. Clearly, Toei had a reason for changing it. Maybe because this tournament hasn't started, they didn't want to bring out their best cards first. Like saying "if Toppo isn't even the strongest fighter in U11, and yet he gave Goku a really good fight, how much stronger could Jiren possibly be?! How is Goku going to beat that?" Especially given they only have 40 hours to prepare.

If Goku gets his ass kicked, it's a significant moment and it'd probably also make him a bit humbled for the main event. And I don't think that's supposed to happen yet.

[dbs fanboy]

I have only one complaint but it has nothing to do with the narrative, it's personal. I actually thought that either Gohan or Mr Satan would mmention the fact that winning means killing a lot of people, i mean, i know that Zeno would kill them anyway, but as they are the most "human" characters, i kinda expected a reaction.

[emperior]

For now this arc has been fantastic to me, I have no complains whatsoever. You should wait for it to end before judging its writing and how it has been handled.

[SansrivaaL]

It's a lot of work and thought, for me anyway, to pedantic proof a post. I'd rather just clarify later on if there's a misunderstanding. Even with all the pedants around here.

The point, and it looks like you agree as well, is that sweating is always an indication of something that character is feeling. Frustration, anger, awkwardness, nervousness, fear—it depends on the context. For the context Toppo was in, the only thing his sweating could mean was that he was having a hard time of things. And it's noteworthy that Goku, in that moment, wasn't.

I'm with you on this, Toppo wasnt even sure he could beat Goku, and claimed in advance that at least Jiren is there if he fails, in Goku's case, he was only unsure of winning when Beerus asked him because he doesnt know who else he's fighting, and after hearing that there's someone more powerful than Toppo it'd be obvious Goku wouldnt be sure of things, what I find weird is Goku saying "I'm not sure if we can win, but at least we have Gohan and Boo" which makes me think what the hell can those 2 do if you get your ass kicked? Goku's just not the type to say "Yeah, I'll win this" unless he's provoking people like what he said to the GoDs

[TheMathemagician]

I get the complaint, but...the tournament hasn't even started yet! In some of the Dragon Ball tournaments, you didn't really know who was going to be the big threat and what the overall themes of the fights were going to be about until all the contestants lined up and started talking to each other. Same with the Universe 6 tournament and Hit. Here, we have only met 4 fighters from only 2 different universes out of a total of 7. And at the very least, this tournament has established its themes pretty well in the exhibition match. That is, it's about other people pointing out Goku's flaws and self-proclaimed 'Champions of Justice' being upset at his apparent selfishness. That's more than I can say for a lot of the other tournament arcs.

Although it is interesting that in the original previews for the USA, it looked like Jiren was going to be at the exhibition match instead of Toppo. Clearly, Toei had a reason for changing it. Maybe because this tournament hasn't started, they didn't want to bring out their best cards first. Like saying "if Toppo isn't even the strongest fighter in U11, and yet he gave Goku a really good fight, how much stronger could Jiren possibly be?! How is Goku going to beat that?" Especially given they only have 40 hours to prepare.

If Goku gets his ass kicked, it's a significant moment and it'd probably also make him a bit humbled for the main event. And I don't think that's supposed to happen yet.

Assuming it's suppose to happen at all.

[KingKaash]

I completely disagree with Toppo not being a threat. I think he's a massive threat. He didn't power up in any sort of way and took on a point blank SSB Kamehameha to only have a few scratches and a tear in his Pride Trooper suit. They're clearly on par with each other. Even if Goku uses KK SSB then Toppo will have some kind of power up too. He did not lose to Goku in that match in any way to me.

Stop trying to argue how strong Toppo is and start thinking about this from a narrative perspective. Introducing a much bigger threat than than the one you already know shifts the focus away from that now lesser threat; like the Androids and Cell. Suddenly the audience is forced to start thinking what this new challenge is all about and what can be done to overcome it, while the previous one no longer seems as important. The characters themselves do it.

Toppo is done for Goku, it's over. Let it go. This should be obvious. Is Goku fighting Toppo or Jiren in the opening?

Why the narrow-mindedness? Is Toppo exclusively a threat to Goku? No, Toppo is a threat to everyone else in U7 because no one else in that Universe can hang with Toppo. You giving him a jobber status by saying he's only meant to come in and say "Jiren is super strong" and then that's it for Toppo is short-sighted to say the least. Of course I agree that Jiren is the main threat. But Toppo is still a massive threat to U7 in the ToP and disputing that is moronic.

I know Toppo may not fight Goku anymore. But I think it's still a possibility he does because of this revenge factor. He thinks Goku is evil and he wants to remove this evil