Will Yamcha get a Mr. Satan or Yajirobe moment in Super?

[precita]

So you know how Yajirobe and Mr. Satan get a moment to play hero and do something special and save the day every so often? You think they're setting it up for Yamcha to have a moment in Super?

It really seems to me that they're laying the meta-humor on Yamcha way too thick lately, far more than ever before. I was surprised to see they were actually going to give a reason for Yamcha not to be selected in the tournament, I thought he would just be ignored off-screen sort of how he was when Freeza appeared on Earth.

We saw Super give both Mr. Satan and Yajirobe some spotlight, and Yamcha and his VA are still popular in Japan. Do you think they're setting him up for something?

[The_Destroyer]

I hope it's something big, but knowing Toei it'll probably just be a scene after the tournament is over where Yamcha is still waiting for an invite despite it being over.

[Boo Machine]

I would like it if he at least had one moment. It's a shame that he seems to be the butt monkey all the time.

[DragonBallFoodie]

Maybe a Yajirobe moment.

He has no idea what he's dealing with, so he's sure to be shocked and maybe run off. Then again, he did handle himself capably in the baseball tournament with Universe 6.

[kinisking]

I hope it's something big, but knowing Toei it'll probably just be a scene after the tournament is over where Yamcha is still waiting for an invite despite it being over.

Yup, I'm expecting this too. I liked the meta humor in episode 70 but I feel like this episode overdid it.

[Lord Beerus]

The baseball episode is a close you're gonna get to Yamcha having a "moment". He's a joke character. And has been so since practically his debut.

[precita]

Yamcha might get a moment of glory at the end of this arc, I can feel it.

[Beek King]

It's pretty evident he's a joke if they're considering Muten Roshi to be more useful than him in the tournament.

[precita]

Master Roshi can't even beat Piccolo in Dragonball. That's comparison to Yamcha who is probably at least around Ginyu Force strength?

[Cipher]

The baseball episode is a close you're gonna get to Yamcha having a "moment". He's a joke character. And has been so since practically his debut.

That's heavily revisionist. He had one major personality quirk upon his debut, just like the rest of the cast in what was predominantly a gag manga. He was never a full-blown joke character before Super.

[batistabus]

I don't expect Yamcha to have that kind of moment. Toriyama seems to be done with that character, and Toei is only throwing him in because he's apparently a Japanese meme.

[Lord Beerus]

The baseball episode is a close you're gonna get to Yamcha having a "moment". He's a joke character. And has been so since practically his debut.

That's heavily revisionist. He had one major personality quirk upon his debut, just like the rest of the cast in what was predominantly a gag manga. He was never a full-blown joke character before Super.

I'm not sure about that. When you get hit in the balls trying to attack an opponent who's cowering in fear and have everyone laugh at you in that moment during a tournament of which the gag is that for you to never make it past the quarter finals, I think it's safe to say the author doesn't take you seriously in the slightest. And prior to that, he's basically a glorified measuring stick who barely wins any battles, has a phobia of speaking to women, of which he overcomes to get a girlfriend, only for him to lose said girlfriend to the man that's indirectly responsible for him suffering his most humiliating defeat. After that, he gets a hole in chest courtesy of Dr Gero, does nothing in the Cell arc and then retires from fighting. For a character that supposedly part of the main cast from the get-go, Yamcha feels like such an unbelievably inconsequential character.

[Totamo]

The baseball episode is a close you're gonna get to Yamcha having a "moment". He's a joke character. And has been so since practically his debut.

That's heavily revisionist. He had one major personality quirk upon his debut, just like the rest of the cast in what was predominantly a gag manga. He was never a full-blown joke character before Super.

He got blown by a saibaman and has lost brutally in the quarter final of every tournament he has ever been in. he was also replaced by vegeta, the guy who was indirectly responsible for his death, to be bulma's husband and got stabbed in chest by an old geezer.



Either he was a joke character or toriyama used subversion to make his life a joke because this is hilarious.

[Cipher]

I disagree that a string of defeats constitutes a "joke" character, especially in the vein of Super's tendency to not simply place him in comedic situations, but to make jokes at his expense (that type of humor is something Toriyama almost never engaged in, by the way).

His loss to Jackie Chun is treated seriously, and establishes the danger of this old master. His battle with the Invisible Man is comedic, but not in any way at the expense of Yamcha himself; he's still presented as being quite capable. His loss to Tenshinhan is played entirely for drama, as is his role as a spectator for the rest of the tournament. In the Piccolo Daimao arc, Kame-Sennin entrusts everyone's protection to him should he and Tenshinhan fail to collect the Dragon Balls. His fight against Shen is comic, but, again, not in a way that belittles Yamcha as a fighter. (That tournament, by the way, also features Goku pantsing Ten.) His death against the Saibaimen is all drama, as is his being run through by Dr. Gero, and by the time he's simply a spectator in the Boo arc, he isn't treated as an annoyance or a joke. He's just one of the gang. While he hardly appears in GT, his send-off cameo feels appropriate and somber. Perhaps he isn't a central character anymore, but he's certainly no walking gag.

Super's take is all new, and it's one of the more obvious tells it's written twenty years after the conclusion of the original series. I can't stress this enough: Toriyama delighted in character-based humor, but very, very rarely did his jokes specifically target or belittle any member of the cast. One of the great, rare things about his writing is that he always treats his characters sincerely.

Either he was a joke character or toriyama used subversion to make his life a joke because this is hilarious.

Saying "his life is a joke," and ignoring the actual tone and presentation of each of those unfortunate events is sloppy analysis and you know this. If you're going to come on here to talk about fiction, even something as ridiculous as Dragon Ball, then be ready to seriously talk about fiction.

[Totamo]

I disagree that a string of defeats constitutes a "joke" character, especially in the vein of Super's tendency to not simply place him in comedic situations, but to make jokes at his expense (that type of humor is something Toriyama almost never engaged in, by the way).

His loss to Jackie Chun is treated seriously, and establishes the danger of this old master. His battle with the Invisible Man is comedic, but not in any way at the expense of Yamcha himself; he's still presented as being quite capable. His loss to Tenshinhan is played entirely for drama, as is his role as a spectator for the rest of the tournament. In the Piccolo Daimao arc, Kame-Sennin entrusts everyone's protection to him should he and Tenshinhan fail to collect the Dragon Balls. His fight against Shen is comic, but, again, not in a way that belittles Yamcha as a fighter. (That tournament, by the way, also features Goku pantsing Ten.) His death against the Saibaimen is all drama, as is his being run through by Dr. Gero, and by the time he's simply a spectator in the Boo arc, he isn't treated as an annoyance or a joke. He's just one of the gang. While he hardly appears in GT, his send-off cameo feels appropriate and somber. Perhaps he isn't a central character anymore, but he's certainly no walking gag.

Super's take is all new, and it's one of the more obvious tells it's written twenty years after the conclusion of the original series. I can't stress this enough: Toriyama delighted in character-based humor, but very, very rarely did his jokes specifically target or belittle any member of the cast. One of the great, rare things about his writing is that he always treats his characters sincerely.

Either he was a joke character or toriyama used subversion to make his life a joke because this is hilarious.

Saying "his life is a joke," and ignoring the actual tone and presentation of each of those unfortunate events is sloppy analysis and you know this. If you're going to come on here to talk about fiction, even something as ridiculous as Dragon Ball, then be ready to seriously talk about fiction.

These are just your interpretetion of these moments. Anytime yamcha lost a fight, I never felt any drama from it because I expected him to lose. I never took him seriously because the series never gave me a reason to. Toriyama never gave me a reason to.

Even If I did take those scenes seriously, Yamcha is a loser, who has a little wins to his name. Thats still a joke to me.The only reason yamcha was even around in z was because of some stupid nonsensical contrivance aka training 1 year and passing goku who trained the same way for 3.
Without that, Rosh would be more powerful and he deserves it.

In fact, roshi who was treated as a pervert showed everal times that he was a wise master and a legitimate threat. Bulma as well even the pig was more useful than yamcha. These characters all had quirks but they always gave me a reason to take them seriously. That they were more than just their quirks. Yamcha never showed me one time except mastering the Kamehameha but all that did was turn the Kamehameha into the easiest move to learn in dragon Ball.

That's right when he did it, he diminished it. Anyone who did it after him made perfect sense, after all if he could do it, anyone can.

Me seeing yamcha as a joke, is not a "sloppy analysis" it's me not trying to put more meaning into something and seeing things as they are. Yamcha losing like he always does. It's not a shock that the fandom sees him as a joke. I have met very little yamcha fans in my life.

Maybe you see saw yamcha as a sincere character and thats your opinion but I never did, not the way the Manga painted him.

[Beyond]

Yamcha fights usually have a purpose. Even if he loses. I don't like saying a character sucks because they lose a fight. It's way to limiting. Piccolo and Krillin are both in my top 5 and they don't usually win, but they do entertain and that's whats important. A good fight that results in a loss is usually better than a lame or easy win. Take Vegeta vs Frost and compare it to Krillin vs Goku or Yamcha vs Tien. Even though Yamcha and Krillin lost those fights like you knew they would, it still showed progress in their potential and made them look like they've come a long way. Vegeta beating someone whose fodder to him in a anticlimactic matter could never compare, especially someone he has no connection with like Frost.

[Makaioshin]

I think the baseball episode was the most we'll get from Yamcha. He has fallen into the category of background characters that have been forgotten about like Chaozu and the recent jokes at his expense have mostly just been Toei's attempt at fanservice.

And yes, to think that he has ever been an actual gag character like Mr. Satan is a bit silly. If anything he has been the complete opposite. He is a pretty plain which works to his detriment. Unlike Tenshinhan, who was almost equally as unimportant to the plot until recently, he never had much presence as a character. In the earlier parts of the series he is the older brother figure who always seems impressive but gets outdone. Then as the series progresses he becomes less impressive as more rivals are introduced but he is still a competent fighter that just gets outclassed. The idea of him getting constantly outdone without anything to really show for it exists in retrospect. And it is funny not because he is a joke character but rather because you can see him as a joke of a character.

Overall him being sidelined this arc isn't really too bad because he has been sidelined for awhile. Even Gotenks barely exists anymore. At least he sort of has a spin-off manga.

[Cipher]

Me seeing yamcha as a joke, is not a "sloppy analysis" it's me not trying to put more meaning into something and seeing things as they are. Yamcha losing like he always does. It's not a shock that the fandom sees him as a joke. I have met very little yamcha fans in my life.

You don't see a difference between the fandom treating him as a joke and the series treating him as a joke?

I'm not sure how anyone can watch or read his fight against Tenshinhan or his death against the Saibaimen and come away thinking he's not a character you're supposed to take seriously (or at least as seriously as any other silly main character in Dragon Ball). I'd argue those are obviously dramatic moments that have only been plastered over with a level of irony and humor in the intervening twenty years, as the characters' continued losses have built him into a meme.

[Totamo]

Me seeing yamcha as a joke, is not a "sloppy analysis" it's me not trying to put more meaning into something and seeing things as they are. Yamcha losing like he always does. It's not a shock that the fandom sees him as a joke. I have met very little yamcha fans in my life.

You don't see a difference between the fandom treating him as a joke and the series treating him as a joke?

I'm not sure how anyone can watch or read his fight against Tenshinhan or his death against the Saibaimen and come away thinking he's not a character you're supposed to take seriously (or at least as seriously as any other silly main character in Dragon Ball). I'd argue those are obviously dramatic moments that have only been plastered over with a level of irony and humor in the intervening twenty years, as the characters' continued losses have built him into a meme.

Tien tanked Yamcha's strongest attacks and broke his leg, that has to be the most humiliating defeat of that entire arc and Yamcha lost to basically to basically a footsoldier.


Though TBH, TFS has changed my views on a lot of characters and I have heard some people say that those characters are better than in the manga or anime so maybe I see yamcha as a joke because they put a lot of the things he did in the perspective of a joke.


I am going to do a dragon. ball marathon after super is over, maybe I might see what you mean.

[Cipher]

Tien tanked Yamcha's strongest attacks and broke his leg, that has to be the most humiliating defeat of that entire arc and Yamcha lost to basically to basically a footsoldier.

But that leg-break is presented horrifically, and is used to build up how ruthless and powerful Tenshinhan is. It's quite a ruthless and drawn-out battle on both sides.

You can't seriously tell me that a character losing in a horrific, dramatic way constitutes their being played for comedy? If that's the case, Vegeta's defeat at the hands of Freeza is a gag scene, and he's the funniest character in the series.

I feel like this is a case of a need for characters to be "powerful" and "bad-ass" affecting the experience of watching the series. It's not about who gets "humiliating" defeats. It's about how scenes are executed, and the way relationships are portrayed between characters.

A parody dub should have no place in conversations like these, but I feel like that goes without saying.