Am I the only one that thinks SSJ4 is more innovative than Super's transformations?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Am I the only one that thinks SSJ4 is more innovative than Super's transformations?

Post by gofishus » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:24 am

As much as people like to hate on GT, I really liked SSJ4. It brought back Oozaru and a different branch of SSJ transformation, going back to black hair and a completely different look. It was more original and more innovative.
Super meanwhile, has five really redundant looking transformations. 1) SSJ God which was only used once, and is essentially just base form with a red aura.
2) SSJ Blue which is just SSJ with blue hair. And utilizes 'God ki' which is weird because Goku can also go "normal" SSJ so does that mean he can willingly choose to use God ki or not? What is the benefit of using normal SSJ when SSJ Blue is strictly better?
3) SSJ Rose which is SSJ with pink hair. Its only used by one person and is the same? as SSJ Blue except its used by an actual god?
4) SSJ Rage which is still unexplained how that form is attained, doesn't all SSJ forms triggered by rage? What makes this one special? And it seems to be just a bulkier form with blue aura inside a yellow aura.
5) SSJ Blue with Kaio Ken which is just a blue aura engulfed inside a red aura.

Am I the only one who thinks SSJ4 is way more original than ANY of super's forms? Oozaru hasn't been acknowledged since the Saiyan saga which I thought was odd especially since Toriyama brought back Kaioken so...

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Re: Am I the only one that thinks SSJ4 is more innovative than Super's transformations?

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:09 am

SS4 is the most innovative Super Saiyan form period. SS was spike hair, turn blonde add green eyes. SS2 now with cool lightning effects. SS3 make the hair longer and no eyebrows! Don't get me wrong I do like the simplicity of the Saiyan forms but they weren't exactly most innovative thing from the franchise.

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Re: Am I the only one that thinks SSJ4 is more innovative than Super's transformations?

Post by Yomi » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:19 am

Are we really doing this again? I thought this discussion died 2 years ago.
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Re: Am I the only one that thinks SSJ4 is more innovative than Super's transformations?

Post by Totamo » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:28 am

eye shadow and pink fur............really?

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Re: Am I the only one that thinks SSJ4 is more innovative than Super's transformations?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:48 am

SSJ4 had a lot of effort put into it. And while I think that the mere concept of SSJ4 was where Dragon Ball jumped the shark, I can't deny that, speaking from an aesthetic standpoint at the very least, it's an amazing form. The homage to the long lost form Oozaru while also tying it into the lore of the Original Super Saiyan and managing combine the characteristic of controlling your rage, much like Super Saiyan. Just fantastic.

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Re: Am I the only one that thinks SSJ4 is more innovative than Super's transformations?

Post by Shinda Forever » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:33 am

Yes, SSJ4 is way more original than ANY of super's forms by a long shot. It just relates more with Saiyajin origins.

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Re: Am I the only one that thinks SSJ4 is more innovative than Super's transformations?

Post by ichasedreams » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:43 am

I've always loved SSJ4 the most. I hope maybe they'll let cabba & the Saiyans from his universe get it.

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Re: Am I the only one that thinks SSJ4 is more innovative than Super's transformations?

Post by Overlord78 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:14 pm

Dude, SSJ4 is more innovative than ANY saiyan transformation. That form at least had some thought and effort put into it.

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Re: Am I the only one that thinks SSJ4 is more innovative than Super's transformations?

Post by Asura » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:19 pm

Nope. SSJ4 is personally my favorite form. Anyone who thinks Super Saiyan Blue is more innovative and original than SSJ4 is simply delusional. That's not even opinion, it's just fact. Regardless of whether or not you like the SSJ4 design, thinking that a literal recolor is somehow more interesting and innovative looking is madness, yet I've seen quite a few people say it (seems to be the majority opinion on Reddit, actually), and I don't understand those people. :eh:
Totamo wrote:eye shadow and pink fur............really?
Black has some black eye shadow (the insides of his eyes are always colored in black compared to Goku) and pink hair, yet I don't recall hearing too many complaints about that.

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Re: Am I the only one that thinks SSJ4 is more innovative than Super's transformations?

Post by Alee9977 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:41 pm

That was the only good thing about GT, I still want to know how the hell the pants grew with Goku.

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Re: Am I the only one that thinks SSJ4 is more innovative than Super's transformations?

Post by Lupin879 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:56 pm

Me too
The god form should have more powers not only a new level
Damn the god dies if you destroy the planet because he can not survive in the without air

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Re: Am I the only one that thinks SSJ4 is more innovative than Super's transformations?

Post by Kaboom » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:02 pm

You're not alone at all. I liked the red-haired Super Saiyan God form, and how its design with the skinny frame and ethereal fire-aura evoked the mysterious new power source that Goku was using rather than just "MORE BULK, MORE GOLD, MORE POWER." Super Saiyan Blue would have done well to keep some of SSG's traits, like the skinny figure and visible pupils. Because as it is, the remaining fancy aura is the only thing preventing it from being an unimaginative simple re-color of Super Saiyan.

Super Saiyan 4 on the other hand is still moderately better in design than Super Saiyan God and WAAAY better than Super Saiyan Blue. The underlying concept of combining Oozaru and Super Saiyan to get a new form stronger than either one is a stroke of genius that almost seems uncharacteristic for Toei, and the design itself is very well put-together and exudes power and presence in a really unique way.
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Re: Am I the only one that thinks SSJ4 is more innovative than Super's transformations?

Post by Lord Frieza » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:08 pm

None's gonna disagree that the forms pretty but thats all its got apart from "it turns my signature attack red" and has an after taste of Goku Time.

I'll take the power of the gods over a red monkey any day.

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Re: Am I the only one that thinks SSJ4 is more innovative than Super's transformations?

Post by Kishido » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:17 pm

Hate the desigm but the cocept of uising the saiyan traits was far better than silly... i have gid ki now so I'm blue and ultra strong

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Re: Am I the only one that thinks SSJ4 is more innovative than Super's transformations?

Post by Bansho64 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:23 pm

No, you're definitely not alone there. I'd definitely put it up there in terms of how awesome it is and it's the most innovative one if you ask me. It's pure badassery at it's finest. Super can't hold a candle to it if you ask me.
Yomi wrote:Are we really doing this again? I thought this discussion died 2 years ago.
Not sure what you mean by this but, yeah, we are. Not seeing the problem here.
Last edited by Bansho64 on Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Am I the only one that thinks SSJ4 is more innovative than Super's transformations?

Post by MKJ » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:26 pm

I always thought that the idea behind SS4 was good, but I was not a fan of the execution of the idea. I did like Vegeta's path to it better than Goku's although I may be in the minority on that. Tapping into the science of the moonlight was cool to me while Goku having his tail pulled out by the kai seemed kind of lame. Symbolically speaking, it looks like ape=primitive rage, ss=controlled rage, and ssb=without rage. They obviously still experience anger, but it is not the same. Toriyama seems to prefer great power in simplicity instead of a "badass" new form. I guess everyone will have their own opinion of what "badass" looks like. I prefer the red form in BoG over everything, but that is just me. It looks like we have one more evolution coming so lets see what they do with that.

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Re: Am I the only one that thinks SSJ4 is more innovative than Super's transformations?

Post by Totamo » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:30 pm

Asura wrote:Nope. SSJ4 is personally my favorite form. Anyone who thinks Super Saiyan Blue is more innovative and original than SSJ4 is simply delusional. That's not even opinion, it's just fact. Regardless of whether or not you like the SSJ4 design, thinking that a literal recolor is somehow more interesting and innovative looking is madness, yet I've seen quite a few people say it (seems to be the majority opinion on Reddit, actually), and I don't understand those people. :eh:
Totamo wrote:eye shadow and pink fur............really?
Black has some black eye shadow (the insides of his eyes are always colored in black compared to Goku) and pink hair, yet I don't recall hearing too many complaints about that.
There were several and some called it a lame recolor but then we saw the form do stuff and then people liked it. Plus it was only around for one arc, ssj4 was around all the time. I just can't take it seriously man

The original super saiyan was a recolor and no one said anything

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Re: Am I the only one that thinks SSJ4 is more innovative than Super's transformations?

Post by sintzu » Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:25 pm

gofishus wrote:Am I the only one who thinks SSJ4 is way more original than ANY of super's forms ?
No, as many flaws as GT has, Ssj4 isn't one of them and is to this day the best Ssj form created since the manga's ending.

What I like about Ssj4 is that it's the only form they introduced in GT and they did it after GT was half over. they made one great form that they believed was strong enough to represent the whole show.

Another thing is the writers, they said they weren't even going to introduce it cause they thought the story didn't need anymore forms and only did it because Shueisha wanted it. DB was never about the Ssj forms and GT's writers got that from day 1.

Modern DB ? they've made the forms the face of the franchise now. every minute someone's getting a new form, and lazy ones at that. they've made it really clear with how little effort is put into them that they're just fast cash grabs, unlike 4 which has creative effort put into it.
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Re: Am I the only one that thinks SSJ4 is more innovative than Super's transformations?

Post by dbs fanboy » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:18 pm

Nope.
Super saiyan 4 is the most original saiyan transformation, people can dislike GT all what they want but at least for me, this is a fact.
I really miss ma boy, Black :( :cry:


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Re: Am I the only one that thinks SSJ4 is more innovative than Super's transformations?

Post by WittyUsername » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:27 pm

As others have pointed out, you're not the only one. It's by far the most unique transformation in the Super Saiyan line-up. Regardless of one's opinion on GT, there's no denying that SSJ4 was something that had effort put into it.

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