The 28 planets debacle

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by Totamo » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:10 pm

emperior wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:So it turns out, in the latest chapter of the Dragon Ball Super manga, the "28 planets of life in all of Universe 7" was in the manga. Implying that this may be a specific bit of lore that Toriyama wanted to include.
That obviously came from Toriyama. I’m 100% sure the tingly-back SSJ thing also comes from Toriyama. Caulifla going SSJ before the tournament will be in the manga.
This line was going to be in the manga when it comes to specific numbers like that, yeah thats Toriyama. He uses numbers so fans don't ask him this stuff and limit himself so he doesn't have to do to much work. Its why namek was just land and had 3 suns so he didn't have to draw much.


Transformations thats were I'm not so certain because Tori doesn't like to explain transformations. He only ever showed Goku and Toyo takes a lot after him.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by nato25 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:57 am

I dont mind retcons that dont clash with preestablished lore. I dont think its ok to just accept lines like this, I have a lot of passion for this series and i want to form a complete story with an awesome world. When lines like this basically cant fit with other things that are prestablished it just ruins it.

I also dont like mistakes. Like that 7 month thing annoys the shit out of me.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by HeroR » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:37 am

nato25 wrote:I dont mind retcons that dont clash with preestablished lore. I dont think its ok to just accept lines like this, I have a lot of passion for this series and i want to form a complete story with an awesome world. When lines like this basically cant fit with other things that are prestablished it just ruins it.

I also dont like mistakes. Like that 7 month thing annoys the shit out of me.
There is nothing in Z that goes against the 28 planets with mortal life other than how big Freeza's empire is, which was all speculation to begin with. Like is colonizing a planet count as creating mortal life?

And if 'month thing annoys the shit out of me', you mean eight months if you're talking about the Red Ribbon Army Saga.
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by nato25 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:34 am

I'll list my personal reasons why I take issue with the 28 planets life thing, from what I think is my strongest argument to the weakest.

- Freeza's army needs planets to conquer, he used the Saiyans to this. I know the correct length of time is out there somewhere, but it's obvious that several planets a week at least are getting taken over.
- The whole point of Freeza's business is to then sell those planets. With only 28 planets with mortal life, who the hell was buying the planets.
- The Kai system looks ridiculous with only 28 planets. You have a directional Supreme Kai (South Supreme Kai, North Supreme Kai etc.) all with directional Kai's (North Kai, East Kai) below them. What are they observing then?
- In about 10 seconds we see Kid Buu blow up 3 planets.
- All the different races that we see across the series (but yes of course its possible for multiple races to come from one planet).

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by HeroR » Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:23 am

nato25 wrote:I'll list my personal reasons why I take issue with the 28 planets life thing, from what I think is my strongest argument to the weakest.

- Freeza's army needs planets to conquer, he used the Saiyans to this. I know the correct length of time is out there somewhere, but it's obvious that several planets a week at least are getting taken over.
- The whole point of Freeza's business is to then sell those planets. With only 28 planets with mortal life, who the hell was buying the planets.
- The Kai system looks ridiculous with only 28 planets. You have a directional Supreme Kai (South Supreme Kai, North Supreme Kai etc.) all with directional Kai's (North Kai, East Kai) below them. What are they observing then?
- In about 10 seconds we see Kid Buu blow up 3 planets.
- All the different races that we see across the series (but yes of course its possible for multiple races to come from one planet).
- We don't know if these includes planets that have been colonized by other races and on top of that, Shin said 'currently 28'. Meaning that they were more, but they got destroyed. Two of the planets he named by Freeza.

- Again, does these count colonized planets? Maybe the population got too big on one world and they paid Freeza to find another good planet that happened to have another population who colonized it. Or, as it has been pointing out, there were more living worlds and Freeza wiped them.

- 28 planets with 'mortal life'. Meaning that planets filled with dogs and cats don't count. If Dragon Ball uses real world evolution and not the Bible's Adam and Eve, it would take millions of years for intelligent life to emerged from lower species.

- That was anime filler, not in the manga.

- A lot of those alien races are anime filler. The 'canon' races we have seen are the Saiyans (noted to wiped), the Namekians (original planet destroyed), humans, and the Yadrats. Freeza's army were filled with alien and mutants from planet he either conquered or outright destroyed.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by nato25 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:46 am

HeroR wrote:
nato25 wrote:I'll list my personal reasons why I take issue with the 28 planets life thing, from what I think is my strongest argument to the weakest.

- Freeza's army needs planets to conquer, he used the Saiyans to this. I know the correct length of time is out there somewhere, but it's obvious that several planets a week at least are getting taken over.
- The whole point of Freeza's business is to then sell those planets. With only 28 planets with mortal life, who the hell was buying the planets.
- The Kai system looks ridiculous with only 28 planets. You have a directional Supreme Kai (South Supreme Kai, North Supreme Kai etc.) all with directional Kai's (North Kai, East Kai) below them. What are they observing then?
- In about 10 seconds we see Kid Buu blow up 3 planets.
- All the different races that we see across the series (but yes of course its possible for multiple races to come from one planet).
- We don't know if these includes planets that have been colonized by other races and on top of that, Shin said 'currently 28'. Meaning that they were more, but they got destroyed. Two of the planets he named by Freeza.

- Again, does these count colonized planets? Maybe the population got too big on one world and they paid Freeza to find another good planet that happened to have another population who colonized it. Or, as it has been pointing out, there were more living worlds and Freeza wiped them.

- 28 planets with 'mortal life'. Meaning that planets filled with dogs and cats don't count. If Dragon Ball uses real world evolution and not the Bible's Adam and Eve, it would take millions of years for intelligent life to emerged from lower species.

- That was anime filler, not in the manga.

- A lot of those alien races are anime filler. The 'canon' races we have seen are the Saiyans (noted to wiped), the Namekians (original planet destroyed), humans, and the Yadrats. Freeza's army were filled with alien and mutants from planet he either conquered or outright destroyed.
I appreciate you trying to make me feel better man but i dont think ill ever be ok with the change. Even with heaps of explanations, 28 is just too small for an entire Universe. All good though ill live with it.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by Meshack » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:13 pm

nato25 wrote:I'll list my personal reasons why I take issue with the 28 planets life thing, from what I think is my strongest argument to the weakest.

- Freeza's army needs planets to conquer, he used the Saiyans to this. I know the correct length of time is out there somewhere, but it's obvious that several planets a week at least are getting taken over.
- The whole point of Freeza's business is to then sell those planets. With only 28 planets with mortal life, who the hell was buying the planets.
- The Kai system looks ridiculous with only 28 planets. You have a directional Supreme Kai (South Supreme Kai, North Supreme Kai etc.) all with directional Kai's (North Kai, East Kai) below them. What are they observing then?
- In about 10 seconds we see Kid Buu blow up 3 planets.
- All the different races that we see across the series (but yes of course its possible for multiple races to come from one planet).
It is said that there’re 28 planets with human life now that Planet Sadala, Planet Vegeta, and Namekku Planet are not gone. So that means there used to be 31 planets with human life before the Saiyans destroyed Planet Sadala, Freeza destroyed Planet Vegeta, and Freeza destroyed Namekku Planet. What the Saiyans did was sell planets, not planets with human life on them. Saiyans were sent to exterminate races but there were only a handful but their mission is really to sell planets.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by DNA » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:54 pm

Meshack wrote:
nato25 wrote:I'll list my personal reasons why I take issue with the 28 planets life thing, from what I think is my strongest argument to the weakest.

- Freeza's army needs planets to conquer, he used the Saiyans to this. I know the correct length of time is out there somewhere, but it's obvious that several planets a week at least are getting taken over.
- The whole point of Freeza's business is to then sell those planets. With only 28 planets with mortal life, who the hell was buying the planets.
- The Kai system looks ridiculous with only 28 planets. You have a directional Supreme Kai (South Supreme Kai, North Supreme Kai etc.) all with directional Kai's (North Kai, East Kai) below them. What are they observing then?
- In about 10 seconds we see Kid Buu blow up 3 planets.
- All the different races that we see across the series (but yes of course its possible for multiple races to come from one planet).
It is said that there’re 28 planets with human life now that Planet Sadala, Planet Vegeta, and Namekku Planet are not gone. So that means there used to be 31 planets with human life before the Saiyans destroyed Planet Sadala, Freeza destroyed Planet Vegeta, and Freeza destroyed Namekku Planet. What the Saiyans did was sell planets, not planets with human life on them. Saiyans were sent to exterminate races but there were only a handful but their mission is really to sell planets.
Were are you getting any of that!? And do you really think that was it? What about all the other planets we are shown? And races for that matter. Clearly more than those 3 were erradicated. In recent years, no counting Majin Buu's rampage, and ignoring movies and filler, Freeza and associates, including Saiyans, exterminated a lot of races. And then right before #20 and #19 arrived, Vegeta went on a space romp killing all remnants he could find of Freeza's army, obviously missed a few, but still.
Between those two events, planets with life must have dwindled.
If we pull movies and filler, you have to acknowledge Broli ending an entire galaxy.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by Meshack » Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:46 pm

DNA wrote:
Meshack wrote:
nato25 wrote:I'll list my personal reasons why I take issue with the 28 planets life thing, from what I think is my strongest argument to the weakest.

- Freeza's army needs planets to conquer, he used the Saiyans to this. I know the correct length of time is out there somewhere, but it's obvious that several planets a week at least are getting taken over.
- The whole point of Freeza's business is to then sell those planets. With only 28 planets with mortal life, who the hell was buying the planets.
- The Kai system looks ridiculous with only 28 planets. You have a directional Supreme Kai (South Supreme Kai, North Supreme Kai etc.) all with directional Kai's (North Kai, East Kai) below them. What are they observing then?
- In about 10 seconds we see Kid Buu blow up 3 planets.
- All the different races that we see across the series (but yes of course its possible for multiple races to come from one planet).
It is said that there’re 28 planets with human life now that Planet Sadala, Planet Vegeta, and Namekku Planet are not gone. So that means there used to be 31 planets with human life before the Saiyans destroyed Planet Sadala, Freeza destroyed Planet Vegeta, and Freeza destroyed Namekku Planet. What the Saiyans did was sell planets, not planets with human life on them. Saiyans were sent to exterminate races but there were only a handful but their mission is really to sell planets.
Were are you getting any of that!? And do you really think that was it? What about all the other planets we are shown? And races for that matter. Clearly more than those 3 were erradicated. In recent years, no counting Majin Buu's rampage, and ignoring movies and filler, Freeza and associates, including Saiyans, exterminated a lot of races. And then right before #20 and #19 arrived, Vegeta went on a space romp killing all remnants he could find of Freeza's army, obviously missed a few, but still.
Between those two events, planets with life must have dwindled.
If we pull movies and filler, you have to acknowledge Broli ending an entire galaxy.
We really don’t know what Toriyama was going for with 28 planets. It has probably to show the poor development of the universe because of an inexperienced Kaiohshin and a lazy Hakaishin. He probably didn’t even include the planets that’re similar to Planet Freeza No. 79, a base for the empire. Again, this only included planets with human life, not all of the planets in the universe. Raditz explained to Gokuh that the Saiyans were suppose to exterminate the species of a planet and it would get sold off. That means the Freeza Army caused tons of exterminations. We don’t even know if Boo went on a rampage if you solely go by the manga. For all we know, Boo and Babidi encounered the Kaiohshin and the Kaiohshin are the only people Boo killed.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by Hawk9211 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:54 pm

The way I see it makes sense in the following way.Buu destroyed hundreds of thousands planets and killed all the kais.The universe was left with shin the worthless.In the meantime destruction by freeza,beerus and saiyans kept going on but there was no development.
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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by DNA » Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:33 pm

You mean Shin, the extremely inexperienced "kid" who doesn't even know half is tasks? If anyone, you can blame the Kaioshins that were killed for not teaching him enough before they were killed, or Kibito for not ponting him the right way to gather knowledge.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by julianix » Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:45 pm

28 planets in the manga is Toriyama being an old hag.. the dude is losing his mind just like kurumada. Hang up the cleats man, anybody that thinks 28 plants with life in an entire universe is a good idea is on crack.

I will ignore it when it comes to dbz lore.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by majinwarman » Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:13 pm

julianix wrote:28 planets in the manga is Toriyama being an old hag.. the dude is losing his mind just like kurumada. Hang up the cleats man, anybody that thinks 28 plants with life in an entire universe is a good idea is on crack.

I will ignore it when it comes to dbz lore.
Hey you don't have a right to tell a man to quit his job due to you not liking his writing. That is just wrong and out of bounds man.
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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by FoolsGil » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:08 pm

The thing about 28 planets with lifeforms is that Freeza is supposed to be a planet broker. Who is Freeza selling planets to and killing lifeforms for if there are only 28 species to apparently sell planets too? Those lifeforms can't find a planet of their own because why? Also, half to maybe 2/3 of those species is apparently in Freeza's employ, so that's even less lifeforms to barter with.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by Meshack » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:21 pm

FoolsGil wrote:The thing about 28 planets with lifeforms is that Freeza is supposed to be a planet broker. Who is Freeza selling planets to and killing lifeforms for if there are only 28 species to apparently sell planets too? Those lifeforms can't find a planet of their own because why? Also, half to maybe 2/3 of those species is apparently in Freeza's employ, so that's even less lifeforms to barter with.
You acting like they can’t sell planets with only 28 planets with human life. What the Saiyans did was exterminate the species of a planet and then sell them.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by FoolsGil » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:32 pm

Meshack wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:The thing about 28 planets with lifeforms is that Freeza is supposed to be a planet broker. Who is Freeza selling planets to and killing lifeforms for if there are only 28 species to apparently sell planets too? Those lifeforms can't find a planet of their own because why? Also, half to maybe 2/3 of those species is apparently in Freeza's employ, so that's even less lifeforms to barter with.
You acting like they can’t sell planets with only 28 planets with human life. What the Saiyans did was exterminate the species of a planet and then sell them.
Who is Freeza going to sell planets to if everyone is dead or working for him? Because at 28 species to sell and kill for (and less because some of those 28 are annexed by Freeza,) you're going to run out of species really quick.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by Meshack » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:50 pm

FoolsGil wrote:
Meshack wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:The thing about 28 planets with lifeforms is that Freeza is supposed to be a planet broker. Who is Freeza selling planets to and killing lifeforms for if there are only 28 species to apparently sell planets too? Those lifeforms can't find a planet of their own because why? Also, half to maybe 2/3 of those species is apparently in Freeza's employ, so that's even less lifeforms to barter with.
You acting like they can’t sell planets with only 28 planets with human life. What the Saiyans did was exterminate the species of a planet and then sell them.
Who is Freeza going to sell planets to if everyone is dead or working for him? Because at 28 species to sell and kill for (and less because some of those 28 are annexed by Freeza,) you're going to run out of species really quick.
It really doesn’t matter anymore since Freeza’s Army is gone. The only thing that needs to happen is Shin developing more planets and species so their human level can be raised.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by FoolsGil » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:59 am

Meshack wrote: It really doesn’t matter anymore since Freeza’s Army is gone. The only thing that needs to happen is Shin developing more planets and species so their human level can be raised.
Perhaps you're right. Still though, the series contradicts itself in a major way, and that's really lame.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by Ki Breaker » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:55 am

julianix wrote:28 planets in the manga is Toriyama being an old hag.. the dude is losing his mind just like kurumada. Hang up the cleats man, anybody that thinks 28 plants with life in an entire universe is a good idea is on crack.

I will ignore it when it comes to dbz lore.
And this you being a silly fuck..
Life is rare in Universe, have we been able to find a single sentient being in all these years of search?
Even if all of Universe isn't examined, it's still far from brimming with life..

Besides, freeza doesn't need to have planets with life to have a huge empire, life can be planted into a planet with the right tools, thus being of value..

There's so many ways to write around it, each and every one of those 28 planets can have countless species, many more races than one controlling the entire planet, life harboring planets can consider some lifeless planets as their domains initiating war with one race from the possible countless present in the livable ones, which could be 100 times the size of Jupiter each for all we know, thus, capable of hosting those more than a enough sentient and capable of fighting races to fulfill the story requirements..
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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by Marco Polo » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:55 am

People act like there were millions of Saiyans slaughtering planets left and right, but there could have been barely a few hundred Saiyans in existence for all we know.

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