The 28 planets debacle

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ChaosLordBrandon
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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by ChaosLordBrandon » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:33 am

Lupin879 wrote:But what exactly is the question of Gohan
Does the 28 planet thing make sense with every thing that has been stated by the jaco manga and the original manga was pretty much the purpose of this thread and it does make sense.

Also Gohan asked is there any fighters on other planets and Kaioshin said he will go check along with Beerus and Whis.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by Roronoa-pt » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:53 am

ChaosLordBrandon wrote:LMAO Did any body post this image? I found it on narutoforums.

Image
Really great, who knew Super could have some consistency.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:21 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
ChaosLordBrandon wrote:LMAO Did any body post this image? I found it on narutoforums.

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
What the!?! Was that the Resurrection F arc of Super or the movie itself? Because... holy shit. That's one hell of a coincidence. Or was this planned?
Considering that 28 is as random number as a number can get I am inclined to believe it's less of a coincidence.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by Speedster » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:44 pm

ChaosLordBrandon wrote:Did any body post this image? I found it on narutoforums.
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
Yes, it was me who posted this in the in-universe board. I posted it here together with a list of the planets with mortals that appeared or referenced throughout the series.
Lord Beerus wrote:What the!?! Was that the Resurrection F arc of Super or the movie itself? Because... holy shit. That's one hell of a coincidence. Or was this planned?
It is from Super - episode 19. Clearly planned. Too specific of a number to be a coincidence. The thing is whether this number comes from Toriyama himself or it was just from Toei.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:55 pm

Speedster wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:What the!?! Was that the Resurrection F arc of Super or the movie itself? Because... holy shit. That's one hell of a coincidence. Or was this planned?
It is from Super - episode 19. Clearly planned. Too specific of a number to be a coincidence. The thing is whether this number comes from Toriyama himself or it was just from Toei.
If it shows up in the Super manga too, I guess you can count this as a Toriyama tidbit.

Either way, well played Super. You kinda dug yourself out of that hole.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by Nano » Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:37 pm

This all stems from bad writing.

#making shit up as they go along
I love Dragon Ball so much that I'm constantly complaining about how horrible Super is.

Black Goku / Future Trunks saga... was/is garbage.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by dbzfan7 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:56 pm

Damn that is quite the coincidence. Could very well have been planned out, but I ain't sure. Doesn't change how nonsensical I think this all is and how it's likely the next Namekian Book of Legends, but hey if it was plans props for the foreshadow I guess....

Not sure how the Freeza army has such a hard time with controlling mostly empty planets or how they're so spread out when most of the universe is empty.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by dougo13 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:36 pm

ChaosLordBrandon wrote:
dougo13 wrote:Very much like the Marvel and DC versions of the universe...keep it small or the plot becomes too complicated. Too many populated worlds and a huge universe containing trillions of planets is beyond the scope of most narratives. Leave that for Valerian or Star Wars...
We didn't even explore a single planet outside of old namek so why the do people even care that U7 has little planets?

And almost all of the vast majority of DC AND Marvels stories take place on earth or is about the earth. even they don't take some how earth is some how part of the comics story in some way.

Mostly everybody in the Justice League is from earth or lives or earth now and the green lantern group is filled with humans.
Check this out then:

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/United_Planets


And that's only from the Milky Way Galaxy!

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by Alruneia » Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:19 am

Yomi wrote:Why are we acting like Life sustaining planets is some kind of everyday thing. It's pretty rare in the real world too.
In fact, as of now we know of exactly 1 planet with life. :P

We have something known as the Drake equation, which can be used to discern how many civilisations that send signals into space for us to detect there are in the galaxy. It boils down to N (amount of civilisations) ~= L (length of life of average civilisation in years). Of course there's a bunch of fractions that go into the full equation, and one of them is the fraction of planets with intelligent life that send out signals for us to detect. We can ignore that, because the Supreme Kai doesn't need signals. So our version would be N ~= L / s (s = fraction of planets with signals). L can have vastly varying values, obviously, but we can look at Earth's various historical civilisations to get a rough estimate. It gives about 1000 years or so. The fraction of planets with signals is part of a larger series of fractions which we have ignored, so it's not as small as you might think. It may be 1/10, or maybe even 1/5. That gives us N ~= 1000 * 5, N ~= 5000. 5000 eligible planets in the real world Milky Way, basically. Not too bad, that, but definitely not a lot.
I'm talking about applying real world stuff to fiction here, obviously. We have to remember that in Dragon Ball, the universe may or may not be large, but it is so, so finite.

How many galaxies are there in Universe 7? Well, it might be 4, and it might be more. There's links aplenty in the earlier pages of this thread where we can read about that. It seems like 4 galaxies is the best option. The definition of galaxy is quite loose, though, and I'm wondering if calling it "four galaxy groups" is better. A galaxy group is... well, a group of galaxies close to each other. That definition allows for regions of empty space within one Dragon Ball galaxy. So we'll say four galaxy groups. How many galaxies are there in a galaxy group? Difficult to say, but less than 50, otherwise it'd be a cluster. It doesn't really have to be more than a couple. If we assume that they're compact groups, there are about 5. So there being about 20 galaxies in Universe 7 doesn't seem like too wild of an estimate... It also gives roughly 100,000 ningen planets, as I like to call them, and that's a nice round number.

Then, we just apply periodic Buu since the beginning of time, millions of years of bad work etiquette by Beerus and Shin, and a handful of centuries of Frieza's empire (which I've found to be by far the most devastating factor), and suddenly 28 ningen planets doesn't seem so farfetched anymore.
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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by omaro34 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:23 pm

I tend to not overthink silly things that come up in an episode. Its Dragonball.

I agree 28 is way too low of a number, but to be honest it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things since there are so many other universes.
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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by Hitiro » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:11 am

With regards to this, didn't the Kaioshin say there were 28 planets that had developed to the point of having civilizations? That means that any other planets with life on would be primitive, to the point of just being cavemen and such. So it isn't like there are only 28 worlds with life. We also have to consider that many planets in the DB were destroyed due to characters like Boo, Freeza and even the Saiyans. In fact, isn't it mentioned that Boo destroyed most of the universe before he was sealed away? So I think this is reasonable.
Last edited by Hitiro on Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:24 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:14 am

Hitiro wrote:With regards to this, didn't the Kaioshin say there were 28 planets that had developed to the point of having civilizations?
No, he said that there were 28 planets with "mortal" life on them. Nothing about civilizations.
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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by Hitiro » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:26 am

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
Hitiro wrote:With regards to this, didn't the Kaioshin say there were 28 planets that had developed to the point of having civilizations?
No, he said that there were 28 planets with "mortal" life on them. Nothing about civilizations.
Ah, I was watching a video with MasakoX and I think he said that the Kaioshin said there are 28 planets with mortal life that have risen to the point of harboring a civilization. It could just be that the Kaioshin is wrong. He has been before. Considering he is terrible at his job. Heck, he didn't even know about the Saiyans and their power till he met them.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:32 am

Hitiro wrote:
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
Hitiro wrote:With regards to this, didn't the Kaioshin say there were 28 planets that had developed to the point of having civilizations?
No, he said that there were 28 planets with "mortal" life on them. Nothing about civilizations.
Ah, I was watching a video with MasakoX and I think he said that the Kaioshin said there are 28 planets with mortal life that have risen to the point of harboring a civilization.
He has a tendency to misquote and make inequivalent assumptions every now and then. I doubt he's intentionally misleading, but it's best to check behind him when he starts listing facts.
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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by Pluto » Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:18 pm

I highly doubt that planets with life levels similar to "babarin" are accounted at all. That would leave space for inteligent species, but even then, we have seen more then 28 species so far in DB. Although, Earth has talking dogs/cats, which clearly coexist with humans, it makes the number 28 really hard to deal with.

Old namek and Yardrat were on the same solar system (goku escapes to the neighour planet), so that's another paradox.

We need to lay down a list of known planets (earth, new namek, yardrat, etc), potentially existing planets (Freeza's race home planet, etc).

That 28 planet map from a previous episode seems to focus on earth, i know it was their destination, but any particular reason why it is the biggest, seems the only Blue one, or are the rest stars/solar systems?
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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by WittyUsername » Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:53 pm

Alruneia wrote:
Yomi wrote:Why are we acting like Life sustaining planets is some kind of everyday thing. It's pretty rare in the real world too.
In fact, as of now we know of exactly 1 planet with life. :P

We have something known as the Drake equation, which can be used to discern how many civilisations that send signals into space for us to detect there are in the galaxy. It boils down to N (amount of civilisations) ~= L (length of life of average civilisation in years). Of course there's a bunch of fractions that go into the full equation, and one of them is the fraction of planets with intelligent life that send out signals for us to detect. We can ignore that, because the Supreme Kai doesn't need signals. So our version would be N ~= L / s (s = fraction of planets with signals). L can have vastly varying values, obviously, but we can look at Earth's various historical civilisations to get a rough estimate. It gives about 1000 years or so. The fraction of planets with signals is part of a larger series of fractions which we have ignored, so it's not as small as you might think. It may be 1/10, or maybe even 1/5. That gives us N ~= 1000 * 5, N ~= 5000. 5000 eligible planets in the real world Milky Way, basically. Not too bad, that, but definitely not a lot.
I'm talking about applying real world stuff to fiction here, obviously. We have to remember that in Dragon Ball, the universe may or may not be large, but it is so, so finite.

How many galaxies are there in Universe 7? Well, it might be 4, and it might be more. There's links aplenty in the earlier pages of this thread where we can read about that. It seems like 4 galaxies is the best option. The definition of galaxy is quite loose, though, and I'm wondering if calling it "four galaxy groups" is better. A galaxy group is... well, a group of galaxies close to each other. That definition allows for regions of empty space within one Dragon Ball galaxy. So we'll say four galaxy groups. How many galaxies are there in a galaxy group? Difficult to say, but less than 50, otherwise it'd be a cluster. It doesn't really have to be more than a couple. If we assume that they're compact groups, there are about 5. So there being about 20 galaxies in Universe 7 doesn't seem like too wild of an estimate... It also gives roughly 100,000 ningen planets, as I like to call them, and that's a nice round number.

Then, we just apply periodic Buu since the beginning of time, millions of years of bad work etiquette by Beerus and Shin, and a handful of centuries of Frieza's empire (which I've found to be by far the most devastating factor), and suddenly 28 ningen planets doesn't seem so farfetched anymore.
The big problem with this idea that Universe 7 only has 28 planets with life is that it kind of makes you wonder why exactly Freeza's empire was having such a difficult time in his absence, if the vast majority of the universe is devoid of life. It also makes you wonder why there even is an intergalactic peacekeeping force if the universe is mostly empty anyway.

It just limits the scope of the universe.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by FortuneSSJ » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:46 pm

Nano wrote:This all stems from bad writing.
#making shit up as they go along
Toriyama in a nutshell and we still love this franchise.
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by Regarder » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:56 pm

So weren't there many more planets before Freeza died? Maybe the other life was wiped out in the long period of post-Freeza civil wars.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by The Monkey King » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:09 am

To be fair Toriyama did say this many moons ago:
How many planets do Freeza and his forces have? Also, is it a company-like organization?

The planets he controls number in the several hundreds, I think. (Of course, this doesn’t include the ones he went and destroyed.)
Since time immemorial, the Saiyans have been a warrior race leading a violent and inhuman existence, making their fortunes by attacking many planets. Furthermore, Freeza and his forces were able to bring even the Saiyans under his control through sheer power. He’s the godfather of the racket. However, they4 were merely violent, and didn’t have an especially company-like organization.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... agon-ball/
I think that several hundred makes more sense than Freeza having control of like 2 dozen planets.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:19 am

The Monkey King wrote:To be fair Toriyama did say this many moons ago:
How many planets do Freeza and his forces have? Also, is it a company-like organization?

The planets he controls number in the several hundreds, I think. (Of course, this doesn’t include the ones he went and destroyed.)
Since time immemorial, the Saiyans have been a warrior race leading a violent and inhuman existence, making their fortunes by attacking many planets. Furthermore, Freeza and his forces were able to bring even the Saiyans under his control through sheer power. He’s the godfather of the racket. However, they4 were merely violent, and didn’t have an especially company-like organization.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... agon-ball/
I think that several hundred makes more sense than Freeza having control of like 2 dozen planets.
The Saiyan have been around since time immemorial? Damn. God knows how many planets they wiped out before they were brought into Freeza's circle.

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