The 28 planets debacle

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The 28 planets debacle

Post by dbzfan7 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:31 am

I'm going to make this here so the main thread does not become all about this one argument. So here we can discuss in fairness how it works. I'll join in probably tomorrow as it's 4:30 am here, and it's too late for me to discuss things in detail.

Geekdom will apparently also have a video with a perspective on the matter, so we can add that to the conversation.
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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by SansrivaaL » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:37 am

Its a matter of either Shin sucks hard at his job or Boo,Freeza,Saiyans,Beerus had destroyed too much planets with mortals on them.
Indeed 28 is waaaaaaay too few in a literal sense, I cant imagine that in all of U7 only 28 planets with life in it remains, like wtf? so I tend to go with Shin just sucks at his job.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by sintzu » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:44 am

A lot could be done with them if the writers wanted to.

We had an entire arc set on Namek so the same thing could happen with other planets.

We could have conflict between planets.

We could have torunaments between them to determain which is the strongest.

We could have Goku find allies on them to help with future villains.

What we have here is a problem that DB has had since day 1, not realizing the potential of the concepts it has. Super in its entirty could revolve around half or less that number if the writers took their time with it. instead we now have universes but what's the point if they're not going to do much with them and they're just there to make the world feel bigger ?

Instead of having universes why not have those 28 universes devided into 7 sections, each one with its destroyer, Kais, etc. ? it's the same concept of the universes but at a more smaller realistic level.
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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by SansrivaaL » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:53 am

Tho with this, there's a possibility that the ending of this arc would be to combine the low mortal universes, I mean if all their universes also has a few amount of mortals in them then combining them into 1 resolves the problem, no one gets destroyed and their mortal rate increases.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:32 am

There are several factors to take into consideration with this new revelation:
1. Majin Boo went on rampage for God knows how long and destroyed countless planets. Hell, Kaioshin himself states that in just a few hundred years he destroyed several hundred planets.
2. Beerus has been around several million years has destroyed countless planets on a whim and nobody can really challenge him on that role.
3. Jaco himself states that there aren't many planets in the universe with life on then in the Jaco The Galactic Patrolman manga.
4. The Saiyan rampaged on countless planets universe before joining Freeza's army
5. Freeza himself went on an unchallenged reign in the universe wiping out God knows how many species or life on planets across the universe, keeping the the planets he wanted and selling off the others for profit
6. Kaioshin doesn't do his homework. Or is the very least very singled-minded. He knew about Freeza but practically knew nothing about the Saiyans. On top of that, Kaioshin had been following Babidi in his spaceship, with the sealed Majin Boo inside, across the universe for God knows how long. I'm thinking that Majin Boo destroyed so much of the universe when he was set free that original by Babidi, that Kaioshin had to keep constant tabs on him, and as a result to protect the life that remained in the universe, didn't have the time to create new planets, as he was supposed to given his role as a creator of life. He didn't want to lose track of Majin Boo and for Babidi to have the chance to ressurect Majin Boo, even if that meant he wouldn't have the time tor create new life-being and planets.

So really, it's perfect feasible for universe 7 to have only 28 planets with mortal life on them. There's more than enough evidence from previously established material to support the claim.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by Israelite Wolfman » Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:03 am

IF The Supreme Kai would phrase it like "there are only 28 planets with AS MUCH life as Earth across this Universe at the moment", I'd be find with this line. I mean, Appule's race must be pretty large considering with how common trash they were among Frieza's fodder Army, and that faction alone had more than 28 races involved there.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by pacz360 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:32 am

Lord Beerus wrote:There are several factors to take into consideration with this new revelation:
1. Majin Boo went on rampage for God knows how long and destroyed countless planets. Hell, Kaioshin himself states that in just a few hundred years he destroyed several hundred planets.
2. Beerus has been around several million years has destroyed countless planets on a whim and nobody can really challenge him on that role.
3. Jaco himself states that there aren't many planets in the universe with life on then in the Jaco The Galactic Patrolman manga.
4. The Saiyan rampaged on countless planets universe before joining Freeza's army
5. Freeza himself went on an unchallenged reign in the universe wiping out God knows how many species or life on planets across the universe, keeping the the planets he wanted and selling off the others for profit
6. Kaioshin doesn't do his homework. Or is the very least very singled-minded. He knew about Freeza but practically knew nothing about the Saiyans. On top of that, Kaioshin had been following Babidi in his spaceship, with the sealed Majin Boo inside, across the universe for God knows how long. I'm thinking that Majin Boo destroyed so much of the universe when he was set free that original by Babidi, that Kaioshin had to keep constant tabs on him, and as a result to protect the life that remained in the universe, didn't have the time to create new planets, as he was supposed to given his role as a creator of life. He didn't want to lose track of Majin Boo and for Babidi to have the chance to ressurect Majin Boo, even if that meant he wouldn't have the time tor create new life-being and planets.

So really, it's perfect feasible for universe 7 to have only 28 planets with mortal life on them. There's more than enough evidence from previously established material to support the claim.
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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by kaioken12 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:43 am

Lord Beerus wrote:There are several factors to take into consideration with this new revelation:
1. Majin Boo went on rampage for God knows how long and destroyed countless planets. Hell, Kaioshin himself states that in just a few hundred years he destroyed several hundred planets.
2. Beerus has been around several million years has destroyed countless planets on a whim and nobody can really challenge him on that role.
3. Jaco himself states that there aren't many planets in the universe with life on then in the Jaco The Galactic Patrolman manga.
4. The Saiyan rampaged on countless planets universe before joining Freeza's army
5. Freeza himself went on an unchallenged reign in the universe wiping out God knows how many species or life on planets across the universe, keeping the the planets he wanted and selling off the others for profit
6. Kaioshin doesn't do his homework. Or is the very least very singled-minded. He knew about Freeza but practically knew nothing about the Saiyans. On top of that, Kaioshin had been following Babidi in his spaceship, with the sealed Majin Boo inside, across the universe for God knows how long. I'm thinking that Majin Boo destroyed so much of the universe when he was set free that original by Babidi, that Kaioshin had to keep constant tabs on him, and as a result to protect the life that remained in the universe, didn't have the time to create new planets, as he was supposed to given his role as a creator of life. He didn't want to lose track of Majin Boo and for Babidi to have the chance to ressurect Majin Boo, even if that meant he wouldn't have the time tor create new life-being and planets.

So really, it's perfect feasible for universe 7 to have only 28 planets with mortal life on them. There's more than enough evidence from previously established material to support the claim.
I would have to disagree here. 28 is just way too little.
We are talking about the universe here, not milky way galaxy. And the universe comprises a sheer indefinite number of galaxies with again indefinite amounts of solar systems.

28 just doesn't make any kind of sense. It is still a baffling low number considering that Freeza's army (or was it only the Saiyans?) made it a business to conquer and sell planets. And they were only located in the milky way galaxy, which is an unimaginably tiny fraction of the whole universe. I mean, how much of a business of killing people and selling their planets can you actually drive there, when there is a total number of 28 inhabited planets in the whole universe? It would neither make sense, if they are located in the milky way galaxy (which should consequently contain only a small fraction of these 28 planets) nor when they would drive their business in the whole universe (28 planets in total - minus your customers' planets of course! - is ridiculous for this kind of business model).

More evidence is that these guys were apparently even so busy - even in our galaxy - that they sent out infants to conquer remote planets like Earth. I don't see, how busy you can possibly be, if there are only these few planets around.

Or the other way round: If we take a look at the different alien races that were presented to us in the "canon" Dragon Ball source material, these alone already take up a good chunk from these 28 planets - and they are all exclusively from "our" galaxy. It sounds quite unbelievable that our galaxy is crowded that much, while the infinite number of other galaxies is more or less completely deprived of any human life.

Any way you look at it, it simply doesn't add up.

(By the way, I found it very funny, how the Kaioshin only mentioned Namek as being lost. Namek is not really lost and the Kaioshin should know this. The people are still alive and kicking, just at a different location. He himself has even been there more than once quite recently.)

Seriously, why not just have the Kaioshin mention a much larger number of inhabited planets? He could still state that none of them - to his knowledge - should currently inhabit beings of sufficient battle power to keep up with the bar currently set by our protagonists. He could still leave in the same way to verify his claim and we could still end up with the very same story progression. Why are these Toei writers always so excruciatingly unimaginative? There is really no excuse for this.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by Basako » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:02 am

Freezer wasn't just a destroyer, he was making business with planets. It looks like very shitty business now, with so few planets in the market to deal with. You people don't see any problem with that either? If it was 100... But it's 28... And what about King Cold, him being a conquerer too is off the table now, because there is just no space for two tyrants.

Beerus's job is to keep the balance destroying some useless planets from time to time. So why the hell did he destroy those planets in the begining of Super? If anything, universe 7 is unbalanced for having so few.

Apart from those considerations, I really think it's very disappointing that there are only left so few inhabited planets in universe 7. They didn't have to be millions, but fucking 28?? Maybe some hundreds or some thousands. The perspective has changed, I don't like it. Freezer conquering now seems a joke, the job of the gods the same thing. The possibilities of universe 7 are totally gone now. 28 is very dissapointing.
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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by Totamo » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:18 am

I don't know, man. Was there ever an exact number stated about how many planets there were in the manga or did people just assumed there were more?

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by Kishido » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:40 am

Can someone explain menwhynit needed 5 Kais and 5 Kaioshins to manage this LOL.

And Freeza's empire looks like a joke now

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by LightBing » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:53 am

I'm sure Vegeta landed on Freeza's planet 7x when he escaped Earth, back in the Saiyan Arc. Just by this indicator and Freeza's conquer and sale planet business. The number doesn't make sense.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by BlueBasilisk » Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:19 am

I had a feeling people weren't going to like the answer when we finally got one. This is the natural consequence of having so many planet destroyer villains in such a short span of time: eventually the number of inhabited planets is going to run very low.
LightBing wrote:I'm sure Vegeta landed on Freeza's planet 7x when he escaped Earth, back in the Saiyan Arc. Just by this indicator and Freeza's conquer and sale planet business. The number doesn't make sense.
Most of the Frieza planets we've seen are military outposts occupied by the Frieza Force. After he and the rest of the senior leadership died, they were probably abandoned by the soldiers.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:26 am

kaioken12 wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:There are several factors to take into consideration with this new revelation:
1. Majin Boo went on rampage for God knows how long and destroyed countless planets. Hell, Kaioshin himself states that in just a few hundred years he destroyed several hundred planets.
2. Beerus has been around several million years has destroyed countless planets on a whim and nobody can really challenge him on that role.
3. Jaco himself states that there aren't many planets in the universe with life on them in the Jaco The Galactic Patrolman manga.
4. The Saiyan rampaged on countless planets universe before joining Freeza's army
5. Freeza himself went on an unchallenged reign in the universe wiping out God knows how many species or life on planets across the universe, keeping the the planets he wanted and selling off the others for profit
6. Kaioshin doesn't do his homework. Or is the very least very singled-minded. He knew about Freeza but practically knew nothing about the Saiyans. On top of that, Kaioshin had been following Babidi in his spaceship, with the sealed Majin Boo inside, across the universe for God knows how long. I'm thinking that Majin Boo destroyed so much of the universe when he was set free that original by Babidi, that Kaioshin had to keep constant tabs on him, and as a result to protect the life that remained in the universe, didn't have the time to create new planets, as he was supposed to given his role as a creator of life. He didn't want to lose track of Majin Boo and for Babidi to have the chance to resurrect Majin Boo, even if that meant he wouldn't have the time tor create new life-being and planets.

So really, it's perfect feasible for universe 7 to have only 28 planets with mortal life on them. There's more than enough evidence from previously established material to support the claim.
I would have to disagree here. 28 is just way too little.
We are talking about the universe here, not milky way galaxy. And the universe comprises a sheer indefinite number of galaxies with again indefinite amounts of solar systems.

28 just doesn't make any kind of sense. It is still a baffling low number considering that Freeza's army (or was it only the Saiyans?) made it a business to conquer and sell planets. And they were only located in the milky way galaxy, which is an unimaginably tiny fraction of the whole universe. I mean, how much of a business of killing people and selling their planets can you actually drive there, when there is a total number of 28 inhabited planets in the whole universe? It would neither make sense, if they are located in the milky way galaxy (which should consequently contain only a small fraction of these 28 planets) nor when they would drive their business in the whole universe (28 planets in total - minus your customers' planets of course! - is ridiculous for this kind of business model).

More evidence is that these guys were apparently even so busy - even in our galaxy - that they sent out infants to conquer remote planets like Earth. I don't see, how busy you can possibly be, if there are only these few planets around.

Or the other way round: If we take a look at the different alien races that were presented to us in the "canon" Dragon Ball source material, these alone already take up a good chunk from these 28 planets - and they are all exclusively from "our" galaxy. It sounds quite unbelievable that our galaxy is crowded that much, while the infinite number of other galaxies is more or less completely deprived of any human life.

Any way you look at it, it simply doesn't add up.

(By the way, I found it very funny, how the Kaioshin only mentioned Namek as being lost. Namek is not really lost and the Kaioshin should know this. The people are still alive and kicking, just at a different location. He himself has even been there more than once quite recently.)

Seriously, why not just have the Kaioshin mention a much larger number of inhabited planets? He could still state that none of them - to his knowledge - should currently inhabit beings of sufficient battle power to keep up with the bar currently set by our protagonists. He could still leave in the same way to verify his claim and we could still end up with the very same story progression. Why are these Toei writers always so excruciatingly unimaginative? There is really no excuse for this.
When was it ever confirmed that Freeza's army were based in one galaxy? They were all over the universe. Hell, Beerus and Freeza met at one stage and even became acquainted. Plus, Kaioshin states in Super that there are currently 28 planets with life on them. Not that that there was always 28 planets with life on them, even during Freeza's unchallenged reign of terror, Majin Boo's lengthy rampage, Beerus doing his usual destroyer God shit and the Saiyans running amok for shits and giggles.

Plus, and as I've said before, Kaioshin had been following Babidi in his spaceship, with the sealed Majin Boo inside, across the universe for God knows how long. And considering that Kioashin was the last of his kind, and Majin Boo had destroyed so much of the universe when he was set free that original by Babidi, Kaioshin had to keep constant tabs on him, to make sure that the evil, ancient Djinn didn't come back to life. And as a result to protect the life that remained in the universe, he just didn't have the time to create new planets, as he was supposed to given his role as a creator of life. He didn't want to lose track of Majin Boo and give Babidi the chance to resurrect Majin Boo, even if that meant he wouldn't have the time tor create new life-being and planets. Especially since, on top of that, Babidi was recruiting minions to assist him in bringing Majin Boo back to life. Kaioshin ultimately had to make the decision to forgo creating new life that was destroyed by Majin Boo, Freeza, the Saiyans and Beerus to ensure that Majin Boo would never be released again and bring the universe to it's knees.

I will agree that 28 planets is very low number, but it's not entirely unreasonable. Considering how much destruction has come from so many different parties for several million years, the universe being quite barren with life should really come as no major surprise. Everyone from Kaioshin, to the Kais, to Beerus, to Freeza, to Majin Boo, to the Saiyans, are at major fault for this. And people wonder why Universe 7 has such a low mortal level. Their lack of attention to their own universe has gloriously come back to bite them in the ass.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by LightBing » Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:52 am

BlueBasilisk wrote:I had a feeling people weren't going to like the answer when we finally got one. This is the natural consequence of having so many planet destroyer villains in such a short span of time: eventually the number of inhabited planets is going to run very low.
LightBing wrote:I'm sure Vegeta landed on Freeza's planet 7x when he escaped Earth, back in the Saiyan Arc. Just by this indicator and Freeza's conquer and sale planet business. The number doesn't make sense.
Most of the Frieza planets we've seen are military outposts occupied by the Frieza Force. After he and the rest of the senior leadership died, they were probably abandoned by the soldiers.
I concede that's likely to be the case but even then based on Freeza's/Saiyans business model, the various races we've seen and how only about 15(?)years have passed since Freeza died; 28 is a number far too low.

Boo happened millions of years ago, he only destroyed Earth in the manga in the Boo arc. Cell didn't destroy anything nor did the Androids. Beerus woke up fairly recently and since meeting Goku, appears to have stopped destroying anything.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by BlueBasilisk » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:10 am

LightBing wrote:Boo happened millions of years ago, he only destroyed Earth in the manga in the Boo arc. Cell didn't destroy anything nor did the Androids. Beerus woke up fairly recently and since meeting Goku, appears to have stopped destroying anything.
Buu did happen millions of years ago, but his actions have perhaps the most significant impact of all. He (effectively) killed 4 of the 5 Kaioshin and the one survivor dedicated himself to stopping him and Bibidi/Babidi for millions of years. Creation and destruction are supposed to go hand-in-hand, but Universe 7's system has Beerus and Frieza destroying on their own fickle whim on the one side and a green Kaioshin on the other side neglecting his responsibilities on the other hand throwing the entire process out of whack. If Frieza only takes inhabited planets then that's 400 worlds or more where he might have committed genocide and nobody is replacing what he destroys.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by TheMikado » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:17 am

Kishido wrote:Can someone explain menwhynit needed 5 Kais and 5 Kaioshins to manage this LOL.

And Freeza's empire looks like a joke now
And this is the crux of the issue, while it's perfectly logical that it could have happened in universe. With the number of deity figures around, it's difficult to imagine that this went on for so long unnoticed. I mean Beerus clearly knows what a mortal rating is so you would think once he gets down to a low number he might be worried about Zeno noticing he's been wiping things out on a whim or letting others go ahead and wipe things out.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by apex_pretador » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:26 am

Lord Beerus wrote:There are several factors to take into consideration with this new revelation:
1. Majin Boo went on rampage for God knows how long and destroyed countless planets. Hell, Kaioshin himself states that in just a few hundred years he destroyed several hundred planets.
2. Beerus has been around several million years has destroyed countless planets on a whim and nobody can really challenge him on that role.
3. Jaco himself states that there aren't many planets in the universe with life on then in the Jaco The Galactic Patrolman manga.
4. The Saiyan rampaged on countless planets universe before joining Freeza's army
5. Freeza himself went on an unchallenged reign in the universe wiping out God knows how many species or life on planets across the universe, keeping the the planets he wanted and selling off the others for profit
6. Kaioshin doesn't do his homework. Or is the very least very singled-minded. He knew about Freeza but practically knew nothing about the Saiyans. On top of that, Kaioshin had been following Babidi in his spaceship, with the sealed Majin Boo inside, across the universe for God knows how long. I'm thinking that Majin Boo destroyed so much of the universe when he was set free that original by Babidi, that Kaioshin had to keep constant tabs on him, and as a result to protect the life that remained in the universe, didn't have the time to create new planets, as he was supposed to given his role as a creator of life. He didn't want to lose track of Majin Boo and for Babidi to have the chance to ressurect Majin Boo, even if that meant he wouldn't have the time tor create new life-being and planets.

So really, it's perfect feasible for universe 7 to have only 28 planets with mortal life on them. There's more than enough evidence from previously established material to support the claim.
Perhaps kaioshin meant intelligent life.
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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by Simere » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:29 am

This is just a classic example of Sci-Fi Writers Have No Sense of Scale.

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Re: The 28 planets debacle

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:30 am

Simere wrote:This is just a classic example of Sci-Fi Writers Have No Sense of Scale.
In what specific sense?

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