The 28 planets debacle

[Overlord78]

Lets see what the guidebooks have to say about this...

What did that tell you? Can't say I read anything noteworthy there, besides that they called the universe infinite.

The Dragon Ball universe doesn't work in the same way our own universe does. There are basically four galaxies in the universe, but they're fucking huge. As within those galaxies are... more galaxies. As it would seem. If we're taking the new material into regards, where we clearly see there are several galaxies in the universe in Super.

It's all really confusing.

I mean we see hundreds if not thousands of galaxies surrounding Super Shenron in Super. I honestly think that the 4 galaxies in the universe has been retconned at this point unless there are galaxies inside galaxies like you said.

[dbzfan7]

Yep, there are really are only four galaxies and Daizenshuu 7 seems to have unnecessarily made things confusing.

Pretty sure Herms said it's not just four galaxies but quadrants or something like that. Or something to do with the way it's translated potentially. I tweeted him so hopefully he'll say something on the matter.

[Asura]

I'm split on the issue. On one hand, having such a small amount of planets with people on them is ridiculous and completely undermines Freeza. Not only that, but why are there Kais for each quadrant if there are literally only 28 inhabited planets in the entire universe? Once again, Super retcons and destroys parts of Z's storyline. Individually none of these changes are very big, but collectively all this retconning and story butchering just adds up.

But yet, on the other hand, I can't help but like the fact that the universe is smaller. This might not be a popular statement, but I actually liked how grounded GT was. Yes, there was a wide universe to explore in the very first arc of GT (with some really beautiful hand paintings and landscapes that Super has been missing for almost its entire run. Seriously, go rewatch GT and look at how beautiful some of those hand painted backgrounds were.) but none of it was ever too essential or important to the plot except for at the very end with Goku's universal spirit bomb. For the most part, all of the events of GT took place on Earth or very close to it (Planet Tsufuru) and the gods remained the exact same as the ones we knew in Z. All of the enemies of GT had to do with the Z fighters past and how it's coming back to haunt them.

I feel like Super has gone way too far into ridiculous territory, and I guess it all really stems from Beerus' line in the BoG movie where he says there are 12 universes. Twelve universes, each with their own god of destruction, their own angel, and their own kai, as well as their own strong fighters. Not only that, we also have a manchild "god-of-everything" that can destroy literal universes in the blink of an eye. The scale of things has just gotten absolutely insane and I kinda miss the days where the Dragonball universe was a lot smaller.

[dbzfan7]

So Boo only destroyed hundreds of planets in a few years? Does it say he continued his rampage for a long time after that? Cause hundreds ain't a lot.

[Lupin879]

Okay, I've just done some more digging and there really is only four galaxies, according to Herms:

The Universe
宇宙/Uchuu
Translation: the universe, space, outer space

The universe is the upper portion of the living world, and is the realm where Goku and the other main characters live and die. It’s the only portion of the DB world that even remotely resembles reality, being based off of the actual universe (or at least the universe as seen in countless sci-fi space operas like Star Wars). As such it consists of countless planets, stars, and other celestial bodies. Daizenshuu 7 explains that in the DB universe, a collection of planets forms a nebula, and a collection of nebulas forms a galaxy (in actual modern astronomy, nebula are collections of space dust and gas rather than planets, though the term was originally looser and included galaxies). There are four galaxies in the DB universe: north, south, east, and west.

These 4 galaxies serve as the governing areas for the gods, and so each one is overseen by the corresponding Kaio and Kaioshin. In fact, Daizenshuu 7 says that the “galaxies” of DB are merely administrational units used by the gods, and so there’s nothing stopping races from travelling from one galaxy to another, provided they have the technology to do so. So basically, these “galaxies” don’t have much reality as physical divisions, and are sort of like the boarders between countries. It’s not clear what significance the cardinal directions could have in space, but the map of the DB world shows what appear to be division lines between galaxies engraved into the living world’s outer walls, so that might have something to do with it.

So... there you have it.

Wrong
The term galaxy is in japanese area

[Lupin879]

I'm split on the issue. On one hand, having such a small amount of planets with people on them is ridiculous and completely undermines Freeza. Not only that, but why are there Kais for each quadrant if there are literally only 28 inhabited planets in the entire universe? Once again, Super retcons and destroys parts of Z's storyline. Individually none of these changes are very big, but collectively all this retconning and story butchering just adds up.

But yet, on the other hand, I can't help but like the fact that the universe is smaller. This might not be a popular statement, but I actually liked how grounded GT was. Yes, there was a wide universe to explore in the very first arc of GT (with some really beautiful hand paintings and landscapes that Super has been missing for almost its entire run. Seriously, go rewatch GT and look at how beautiful some of those hand painted backgrounds were.) but none of it was ever too essential or important to the plot except for at the very end with Goku's universal spirit bomb. For the most part, all of the events of GT took place on Earth or very close to it (Planet Tsufuru) and the gods remained the exact same as the ones we knew in Z. All of the enemies of GT had to do with the Z fighters past and how it's coming back to haunt them.

I feel like Super has gone way too far into ridiculous territory, and I guess it all really stems from Beerus' line in the BoG movie where he says there are 12 universes. Twelve universes, each with their own god of destruction, their own angel, and their own kai, as well as their own strong fighters. Not only that, we also have a manchild "god-of-everything" that can destroy literal universes in the blink of an eye. The scale of things has just gotten absolutely insane and I kinda miss the days where the Dragonball universe was a lot smaller.

Fully agree with you. They should be more generic otherwise then there are errors. However, even counting the planets of the GT series, oddly enough you get to about twenty-eight,

[Lord Beerus]

Okay, I've just done some more digging and there really is only four galaxies, according to Herms:

The Universe
宇宙/Uchuu
Translation: the universe, space, outer space

The universe is the upper portion of the living world, and is the realm where Goku and the other main characters live and die. It’s the only portion of the DB world that even remotely resembles reality, being based off of the actual universe (or at least the universe as seen in countless sci-fi space operas like Star Wars). As such it consists of countless planets, stars, and other celestial bodies. Daizenshuu 7 explains that in the DB universe, a collection of planets forms a nebula, and a collection of nebulas forms a galaxy (in actual modern astronomy, nebula are collections of space dust and gas rather than planets, though the term was originally looser and included galaxies). There are four galaxies in the DB universe: north, south, east, and west.

These 4 galaxies serve as the governing areas for the gods, and so each one is overseen by the corresponding Kaio and Kaioshin. In fact, Daizenshuu 7 says that the “galaxies” of DB are merely administrational units used by the gods, and so there’s nothing stopping races from travelling from one galaxy to another, provided they have the technology to do so. So basically, these “galaxies” don’t have much reality as physical divisions, and are sort of like the boarders between countries. It’s not clear what significance the cardinal directions could have in space, but the map of the DB world shows what appear to be division lines between galaxies engraved into the living world’s outer walls, so that might have something to do with it.

So... there you have it.

Wrong
The term galaxy is in japanese area

What are you talking about?

[dbzfan7]

A note below that shows the layout of the cosmos and the universe. The Kaiōshin oversee both the upper half, or the heavenly realm, and the bottom half, the world of the living. The diagram of the universe shows how it is divided into four quadrants called “galaxies” and how Earth is in the north one.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2013/02/06/ch ... -and-more/

Alongside a shot of Super Saiyan Goku and Freeza taken from the manga is a small caption that says the universe that the Earth is part of holds a past where hundreds of planets have been destroyed through Majin Boo, creation of the dark mage Bobbidi, apart from Planet Vegeta, which was destroyed by Freeza.

[Lord Beerus]

A note below that shows the layout of the cosmos and the universe. The Kaiōshin oversee both the upper half, or the heavenly realm, and the bottom half, the world of the living. The diagram of the universe shows how it is divided into four quadrants called “galaxies” and how Earth is in the north one.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2013/02/06/ch ... -and-more/

Alongside a shot of Super Saiyan Goku and Freeza taken from the manga is a small caption that says the universe that the Earth is part of holds a past where hundreds of planets have been destroyed through Majin Boo, creation of the dark mage Bobbidi, apart from Planet Vegeta, which was destroyed by Freeza.

And that pretty much seals it. The Dragon Ball universe has four galaxies. There are just really fucking big.

[dbzfan7]

[Baggie_Saiyan]

This also answers why the Saiyans sent Goku as far as Earth in the first place. Honestly this reveal answers a lot of questions. Plus we have barely visited any planets this reveal doesn't change a thing. There could be galaxies upon galaxies with no life forms for all we know.

[Beek King]

I find that whole statement to be supreme bullshit. It's a ridiculously small number considering it's like, a whole universe and if there's just that little, then, well:
- Kaio wouldn't have needed an address book of planets
- Freeza and his dad would have had too little conquer at all
- Freeza's army had so many races, sure some of them could have shared planets but still, there's a lot
- I'm pretty sure with the way Freeza labeled his planets he alone had a few hundred at least
- There's a Galactic King, a Galactic Patrol, etc., why would there be so much space infrastructure if there's so little life spread across the universe at all?

It's sketchy even if you disregard things like filler or movies.

[Lord Beerus]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

At this point, should we be surprised when Super decides to do its own contradictory shit? We have one source telling us that there are four galaxies and another show says something completing different. Who do you actually listen to?

And the end of the day... being a Dragon Ball fans is very bloody stressful at times.

[pacz360]

A note below that shows the layout of the cosmos and the universe. The Kaiōshin oversee both the upper half, or the heavenly realm, and the bottom half, the world of the living. The diagram of the universe shows how it is divided into four quadrants called “galaxies” and how Earth is in the north one.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2013/02/06/ch ... -and-more/

Alongside a shot of Super Saiyan Goku and Freeza taken from the manga is a small caption that says the universe that the Earth is part of holds a past where hundreds of planets have been destroyed through Majin Boo, creation of the dark mage Bobbidi, apart from Planet Vegeta, which was destroyed by Freeza.

And that pretty much seals it. The Dragon Ball universe has four galaxies. There are just really fucking big.

No it doesn't Jaco stated there were multiple galaxies in super not to mention goku scanning for vegeta where we saw five galaxies.

[Bullza]

As mentioned in another thread. This isn't anything new.

Jaco already said there weren't that many planets with intelligent life forms and that was back before the events of the original Dragon Ball when their were more planets around.

[Lord Beerus]

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2013/02/06/ch ... -and-more/

And that pretty much seals it. The Dragon Ball universe has four galaxies. There are just really fucking big.

No it doesn't Jaco stated there were multiple galaxies in super not to mention goku scanning for vegeta where we saw five galaxies.

My guess is that there are galaxies within galaxies. I mean, that's the only way this can work.

[pacz360]

And that pretty much seals it. The Dragon Ball universe has four galaxies. There are just really fucking big.

No it doesn't Jaco stated there were multiple galaxies in super not to mention goku scanning for vegeta where we saw five galaxies.

My guess is that there are galaxies within galaxies. I mean, that's the only way this can work.

Not really either the guidebook is outdated or recton cause either way dragon ball has more than just four galaxies so no need to bring up a long dead argument

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I mentioned this in a similar discussion in another thread, but it bears repeating. Even if not all planets are capable of evolving life, there's absolutely no reason why the new planets shouldn't be colonized. Even taking into account Boo, Freeza, and Beerus, the universe is absolutely MASSIVE! 28 is an utterly stupid number no matter what we take into account. I would have been fine with just a couple of hundred. I think even that's a little small, but it would be enough to make a single Universe narratively useful at this point. But no... Two dozen planets, that's what we have.

[ChiefWamsutta]

Do we even know if that image with Super Shenron is within Universe 7?

This was more than likely an answer to the question of why all ten fighters are coming from earth. It was specifically said that there are 28 planets with mortal life on them -- this means sentient beings. There could be thousands of planets with life on them.

[Lord Beerus]

No it doesn't Jaco stated there were multiple galaxies in super not to mention goku scanning for vegeta where we saw five galaxies.

My guess is that there are galaxies within galaxies. I mean, that's the only way this can work.

Not really either the guidebook is outdated or recton cause either way dragon ball has more than just four galaxies so no need to bring up a long dead argument

Just chalk it up as a retcon.