Why so much hatred over the manga Zamasu?

[VegettoEX]

I always love how people just talk shit about things they have not even watched/read. There is a reason, its definetly not a random thing, so I suggest you to actually read it before showing ignorance about a matter saying it's a nonsense. Then again, it isn't very different from the people who are supposed to have read the manga yet they say that he just saw a random clip on Godtube, but oh well, this is DB fandom after all, where people hate about things they don't even know about apart from a few images and spoilers (and it sadly applies to Super as a whole most of the time).

You could skip including this entire paragraph and be in a pretty OK place. Please consider this moving forward with your posts. Thank you!

[HeroR]

Yes that was what was implied, Goku and Zamasu were always on a course to clash and this is not too far fetched because Zamasu was heralded as a special fighter prodigy Kaioshin, in our timeline it was because of Trunks they fought but in the other it could have been any other reason like Whis saying to Goku oh there a unique fighter Kaioshin in U10 and Goku would be like oh cool I wanna fight him! etc but the reason why is not important it is them fighting that is with the point being that them sparring was fate.

There was a stable time loop. Nothing in the anime suggest that they met under different conditions. The footage was even that of Episode 54. And I don't see why Whis or Beerus would mentioned Zamasu even in passing.

[HeroR]

The anime actually goes out its way to specify why Zamasu chose Goku's body. He defeats him in a sparring match, and personally comes to the conclusion, following how Goku was able defeat him with just a fraction of his strength, that mortals having that kind of power, let alone the power to challenge Gods, is a potentially great danger to the universe and a grave mistake of the Gods to let it happen in the first place. Hell, Merged Zamasu even further states to Vegetto that he chose Goku's body specifically because he believes that Goku is the representation of all of the failures of the Gods, as Goku had obtained power surpassing the Gods, despite being mortal, and uses is so frivolously. Hell, the anime even goes further in making the connection with Goku Black/Zamasu and Goku all the more personal with Goku Black/Zamasu killing Chi Chi and Goten out of spite. And those two where the first two mortal he killed in his path to completing his Zero Mortals Plan.

The anime makes the scenario with Zamasu's distrusts and resentment of mortals, and later Goku specifically, more logical and layered. The manga take all of that development out and, because of that, Goku Black loses all of his unique symbolism, dramatic irony and intentional hypocritical representation which makes the character so great and complex.

I would also liked to add that the anime also gave Black a love/hate relationship with Goku. For as much as Black despises Goku for being a powerful mortal who dared to fight the gods, he also greatly admired him. Despite Vegeta overwhelming him at one point, he never saw Vegeta at his equal. It was always Goku and the person he inspired to be so much that he purposely copied his mannerisms, fighting style, and later even his speech patterns. He also views Goku's body as the ultimate vessel or as he puts it 'a gift from the gods'.

And the Zamasu that becomes Black is also influence by Goku's body. He could have wished for immortality like Future Zamasu and be invincible. Instead, he loved fighting and growing stronger so much that he reject the very idea of living forever. Which in the end screw over Merged Zamasu in poetic irony. The vessel that made him so powerful ended up being his biggest flaw in the end.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Yes that was what was implied, Goku and Zamasu were always on a course to clash and this is not too far fetched because Zamasu was heralded as a special fighter prodigy Kaioshin, in our timeline it was because of Trunks they fought but in the other it could have been any other reason like Whis saying to Goku oh there a unique fighter Kaioshin in U10 and Goku would be like oh cool I wanna fight him! etc but the reason why is not important it is them fighting that is with the point being that them sparring was fate.

There was a stable time loop. Nothing in the anime suggest that they met under different conditions. The footage was even that of Episode 54. And I don't see why Whis or Beerus would mentioned Zamasu even in passing.

Because he was was a big deal like I said he was heralded as a special fighter Kaioshin, Whis knew about him in our timeline so it's really not far fetched to think Whis passed it in mentioneing in another timeline where Trunks didn't come.

[HeroR]

Because he was was a big deal like I said he was heralded as a special fighter Kaioshin, Whis knew about him in our timeline so it's really not far fetched to think Whis passed it in mentioneing in another timeline where Trunks didn't come.

Zamasu wasn't a big deal. He was just another Kai, although very powerful one. Whis nor Beerus felt the need to mention him until the whole thing with Black. Even Goku only showed as much interest as he did because Zamasu could have been Black who was very powerful. To Goku, strong for a Supreme Kai doesn't mean anything.

[ckal9]

He sees a few clips on Godtube of Goku fighting in the Universe 6/7 tournament is all like "Yeah. Fuck this guy."

That makes no sense. Other than Goku being the main character, why would he not decide he has a vendetta with Hit or Vegeta? Why pick Goku? There probably is no other reason.

The anime actually goes out its way to specify why Zamasu chose Goku's body. He defeats him in a sparring match, and personally comes to the conclusion, following how Goku was able defeat him with just a fraction of his strength, that mortals having that kind of power, let alone the power to challenge Gods, is a potentially great danger to the universe and a grave mistake of the Gods to let it happen in the first place. Hell, Merged Zamasu even further states to Vegetto that he chose Goku's body specifically because he believes that Goku is the representation of all of the failures of the Gods, as Goku had obtained power surpassing the Gods, despite being mortal, and uses is so frivolously. Hell, the anime even goes further in making the connection with Goku Black/Zamasu and Goku all the more personal with Goku Black/Zamasu killing Chi Chi and Goten out of spite. And those two where the first two mortal he killed in his path to completing his Zero Mortals Plan.

The anime makes the scenario with Zamasu's distrusts and resentment of mortals, and later Goku specifically, more logical and layered. The manga take all of that development out and, because of that, Goku Black loses all of his unique symbolism, dramatic irony and intentional hypocritical representation which makes the character so great and complex.

I've seen the anime, just haven't read the manga. With that said, I still appreciate your comment as you did a nice job highlighting why it works in the anime. With all that removed, I can see why the manga would struggle with Zamasu's rationale/motivations and Goku Black.

[Swifticuffs]

This may have already been said BUT, wasn't another Manga motivator for Present Zamas the fact that he sparred with Kibito? Kibito was strong, but Zamas eventually overpowers him and is praised by Shin, right? Zamas compliments U7, saying they have very strong beings, and I even think Gowasu mentions how they destroyed Majin Boo. Then, Shin explains how that was due to a mortal named Son Gokuu, who had far more power than him or his fellow gods, right? It definitely is not spot on, since I read that chapter many, many months ago, but I'm sure the core concept is there.

Anyone care to correct that, build on, concur, or a bit of all of the above? I think that is the original catalyst there, and then when he views Son Gokuu on the tube it only furthers the interest.

Seems fine to me... maybe I'm easy to please?

[dbs fanboy]

Yes that was what was implied, Goku and Zamasu were always on a course to clash and this is not too far fetched because Zamasu was heralded as a special fighter prodigy Kaioshin, in our timeline it was because of Trunks they fought but in the other it could have been any other reason like Whis saying to Goku oh there a unique fighter Kaioshin in U10 and Goku would be like oh cool I wanna fight him! etc but the reason why is not important it is them fighting that is with the point being that them sparring was fate.

There was a stable time loop. Nothing in the anime suggest that they met under different conditions. The footage was even that of Episode 54. And I don't see why Whis or Beerus would mentioned Zamasu even in passing.

To be fair, there's nothing stated. What i mean, is that the only thing we know is that Zamasu (the one who succeeded in killing Goku and all that stuff) fought our lovable dummie and lost. That's all the bit of information we have, it's not stated that this is exactly the same scene from ep 53 (there's only a little bit of portion of the actual fight showed but not the part which relates to Goku feeling Black's ki throught Zamasu's), it's also not stated anything such as "we fought under a different situation". And for the record ep 61 contradicts any existence of a time loop, as when Goku was killed, he had no idea of what was happening and who was the one "with his face".

Sorry for going off topic people.

[The gr]

He sees a few clips on Godtube of Goku fighting in the Universe 6/7 tournament is all like "Yeah. Fuck this guy."

That makes no sense. Other than Goku being the main character, why would he not decide he has a vendetta with Hit or Vegeta? Why pick Goku? There probably is no other reason.

I always love how people just talk shit about things they have not even watched/read. There is a reason, its definetly not a random thing, so I suggest you to actually read it before showing ignorance about a matter saying it's a nonsense. Then again, it isn't very different from the people who are supposed to have read the manga yet they say that he just saw a random clip on Godtube, but oh well, this is DB fandom after all, where people hate about things they don't even know about apart from a few images and spoilers (and it sadly applies to Super as a whole most of the time).

Zamasu first learns about Goku after his battle with Kibito. He was praising Shin akd Kibito for getting rid of Buu, a job which should have been done by Beerus, however Shin tells him that it was Son Goku who did it. Zamasu doesn't believe at first that there are mortals reaching the levels of the gods and what's more, using it that way, doing the job of the gods. After the Barbari incident, when the only conclusion Zamasu has about Gowasu's (poor) attemps to make him change his mind about mortals is that the power he has been working so hard to obtain is useless because, being a Kaio, he can't use it. He then become interested in Goku and searched about him on Godtube, finding the torunament of the Champa arc. The rest is pretty much the same that in tje anime, but without the nonsensical scene of trying to kill Gowasu with a Ki sword, when there were a hell lot of ways to make it easier. In the manga he's caught as fast as he returns from speaking with Zuno.

Why would he chose Vegeta? As far as he knows, he doesn't use his power to make the God's job. Hit is even a worde option consifering how weak he is, and he doesn't even have god ki.

Actually, the «random Godtube clip» applies more for the anime version than for the manga one. In the anime Zamasu just sees casually a clip of SSB Goku fighting Hit, not the tournament itself like in the manga, yet he latter knows about Vegeta. The time travel in this arc is a nonsense in both manga and anime, but its even worse in the anime, where Black can't even be Zamasu. They didn't even make a «good» time loop, since the flashbacks of Black doesn't match at all with it (Gowasu dies in differents ways, the Goku who Blsck killed was in the garden casually instead of eing worried because of he entire Goku Black thing) In thw anime Black could not even know about Vegeta. But well, Goku could have also oneshoted Black back when he was supposed to be pissed about him killing his family using the Kaioken, yet he didn't because of... whatever. The logic in the anime is absolutely non existent except from some parts.

Its indeed true that Zamasu doesn't have a personal connection to Goku, but the whole «he just chose Goku from a random clip of Godtube» meme needs to die since it's not true at all. Goku is still a mortal who as the power of the gods and use it like of he was one, having even a power more close to the Hakaishins that they should.

And the anime didn't make a perfect job with him either, since Future Zamasu was extremely lame, taking like ten seconds to turn evil, just because a random ningen with a Pothala appears, kills his master, and says «I'm here for the sake of justice!». Future Zamasu in the manga actually has , as said by Trunks himself, psycological damage because of Black's influencd, while the anime one was like «Oh yeah, fuck everything, now I won't have to make more tea» after looking for some seconds to, as I said, a ningen with Pothalas who has just killed his master.

I mean how can anyone ignore ft zamasu road to corruption in The manga,is because Black treated him like trash and views him as a weakling, hence Why he gave him inmortality, that's way better than I'm evil so I'm joining him, and people Manga Black a moron,so is anime black, because the fact that he didn't kill trunks for one year,I call bs

[OLKv3]

Yeah, people are very hypocritical when it comes to bashing the manga and defending the anime. The whole "Manga Black sucks because it took him a year to kill Trunks" reason really annoys me, especially since Anime Black was worse in that regard, where he completely failed to stop the resistance actually fighting him, as well as Trunks.

The biggest inconsistency for me in the anime though is the resistance themselves, even though I like their addition. The fact that they're nowhere to be found in the beginning of the arc to help Mai and Trunks reach the time machine, Trunks and Mai aren't hiding out in their camp and are instead together in an apartment, and the fact that both Trunks and Mai were planning to abandon them to run to the present, let's me know that Toei didn't create them until they made the storyboards for the return to the future.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Yeah, people are very hypocritical when it comes to bashing the manga and defending the anime. The whole "Manga Black sucks because it took him a year to kill Trunks" reason really annoys me, especially since Anime Black was worse in that regard, where he completely failed to stop the resistance actually fighting him, as well as Trunks.

The biggest inconsistency for me in the anime though is the resistance themselves, even though I like their addition. The fact that they're nowhere to be found in the beginning of the arc to help Mai and Trunks reach the time machine, Trunks and Mai aren't hiding out in their camp and are instead together in an apartment, and the fact that both Trunks and Mai were planning to abandon them to run to the present, let's me know that Toei didn't create them until they made the storyboards for the return to the future.

Fwiw Its probably best Trunks wasnt with them. Of course Black could sense ki at first I believe...but even following Trunks to the site would have been a disaster for the people.

I do kind of agree overall though.

[The gr]

I'm completely fine with zamas Being a pshycopaht, killing the humans with his hands, but one year,he didn't kill the resistance fighter, that is very strange, even in the manga it took this page for black and zamasu to eliminate mankind

[batistabus]

Agree with MisteryOne. I'd also like to elaborate on why Zamasu would choose Son Goku and not Hit.

1. In the manga, the fight is not nearly as close as it is in the anime. Goku realizes that he is going to win the match, but he surrenders to Hit because he knows he's held back by the tournament rules. He also wants to see Monaka fight. In the anime, Goku surrenders because Beerus and Champa are fighting and wants to prove a point. It's not clear that Goku is strong enough to beat Hit, but even if he could, the result would be tainted. While both the manga and anime follow the same outline, the implications are very different.

2. Hit does not defile god ki like Goku does. If Zamasu saw the part of the tournament where Goku shakes Zeno's hand, I'm sure that would irritate him as well.

3. Goku shows himself to be extremely adaptable in his fight against Hit. While this largely has to do with Goku's mind, it would still cause Zamasu to take greater interest in him.

4. Hit is 1,000 years old. Goku is much younger. It is more likely that Goku has room for improvement.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Agree with MisteryOne. I'd also like to elaborate on why Zamasu would choose Son Goku and not Hit.

1. In the manga, the fight is not nearly as close as it is in the anime. Goku realizes that he is going to win the match, but he surrenders to Hit because he knows he's held back by the tournament rules. He also wants to see Monaka fight. In the anime, Goku surrenders because Beerus and Champa are fighting and wants to prove a point. It's not clear that Goku is strong enough to beat Hit, but even if he could, the result would be tainted. While both the manga and anime follow the same outline, the implications are very different.

2. Hit does not defile god ki like Goku does. If Zamasu saw the part of the tournament where Goku shakes Zeno's hand, I'm sure that would irritate him as well.

3. Goku shows himself to be extremely adaptable in his fight against Hit. While this largely has to do with Goku's mind, it would still cause Zamasu to take greater interest in him.

4. Hit is 1,000 years old. Goku is much younger. It is more likely that Goku has room for improvement.

It's amazing how some people totally ignore the explanations and just to say that Zamasu's bad manga sums up his body swap with Goku the '' Godtube. '' Ignoring that he went to Zuno and knew everything about Goku, ignoring that he already had Hatred of humans and ignoring that in Godtube goku himself, a low-class mortal, became everything Zamasu hated most as well as anime.

Is at least acceptable Zamasu change body, was not something just script. In the anime was more worked but you can understand their motivations in the manga too.

[perucho1990]

It also doesn't make a lick of sense. It's impossible for Black to have sparred with Goku in his past since Trunks was the catalyst for that, yet that's exactly what happened in Black's past somehow. He sparred with Goku and everything apparently was the same until for some reason, Goku decided to not pursue this and just go back home to a normal life

It's a time paradox that doesn't make sense because time travel doesn't work that way in DB. I absolutely hate the Goku/Zamasu relationship in the anime

It was an alternative timeline, maybe Goku went to spar with Zamasu for a different reason.(He just wanted to fight strong guys as the latest episode mentioned).

Since there was no evil in that timeline, Goku just went back to have a normal life(He was working as a bodyguard, farmer, and playing baseball as we saw in the anime after the Black Arc).

[The SSJ4 Guy]

I missed where Vegito beamed his arms off... first up, I thought Zamasu pulled so hard, that he didn't budge Vegito... kind of like when Mr Potato head was doing the 'weightlifting' in Toy Story ^_^

[Guesswhoo]

Anime Zamasu is an overly narcissistic-badass completely obsessed with his goal, he never loses his cool even when the enemy beat him up, he is calm with some madness moment.
Manga Zamasu is just a narcissistic whiny brat, he loses his cool when his enemy get the upper hand but act like he always had the upper hand when he suddenly become more powerful.

[OLKv3]

Anime Zamasu is an overly narcissistic-badass completely obsessed with his goal, he never loses his cool even when the enemy beat him up, he is calm with some madness moment.
Manga Zamasu is just a narcissistic whiny brat, he loses his cool when his enemy get the upper hand but act like he always had the upper hand when he suddenly become more powerful.

Anime Zamasu is different from Toriyama's normal formula, and this is probably why he's so popular
Manga Zamasu is just like the rest of the DBZ villains, though I still think he's well written since he's supposed to be a brat

I prefer Anime Zamasu, but I like how Toyo handled Manga Zamasu essentially being an immature child who is way in over his head and ignorant of the world outside of Gowasu's teachings