So we gonna ignore the fact Tenshinhan got trashed??

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Re: So we gonna ignore the fact Tenshinhan got trashed??

Post by Shinda Forever » Fri May 19, 2017 1:18 pm

After the last two episodes Tenshinhan was destroyed as a character. I believe he will be pulled out of the team regardless the last scan where he does so well.

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Re: So we gonna ignore the fact Tenshinhan got trashed??

Post by precita » Fri May 19, 2017 2:20 pm

Tien got destroyed as a character because Gohan knocked the crap out of him, a character who is millions of times stronger than he is?

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Re: So we gonna ignore the fact Tenshinhan got trashed??

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Fri May 19, 2017 2:40 pm

precita wrote:Tien got destroyed as a character because Gohan knocked the crap out of him, a character who is millions of times stronger than he is?
Problem is...yes. Why? Because these are the types of opponents waiting at the ToP. When you dont have any moments to lean on and then your two appearances have you get handled Id agree thats being destroyed....at least in terms of this arc.
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Re: So we gonna ignore the fact Tenshinhan got trashed??

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri May 19, 2017 2:42 pm

GodKaio-Ken wrote:
precita wrote:Tien got destroyed as a character because Gohan knocked the crap out of him, a character who is millions of times stronger than he is?
Problem is...yes. Why? Because these are the types of opponents waiting at the ToP. When you dont have any moments to lean on and then your two appearances have you get handled Id agree thats being destroyed....at least in terms of this arc.
To be fair, the only reason Gohan got the drop in Tien was because he was flying. They can't do that in the Tournament of Power.

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Re: So we gonna ignore the fact Tenshinhan got trashed??

Post by HeroR » Fri May 19, 2017 3:00 pm

Lord Beerus wrote: To be fair, the only reason Gohan got the drop in Tien was because he was flying. They can't do that in the Tournament of Power.
You can fly within the ring. You can't if you're out of bounds. We see people flying in the intro.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: So we gonna ignore the fact Tenshinhan got trashed??

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri May 19, 2017 3:04 pm

HeroR wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote: To be fair, the only reason Gohan got the drop in Tien was because he was flying. They can't do that in the Tournament of Power.
You can fly within the ring. You can't if you're out of bounds. We see people flying in the intro.
Nope. Flight abilities are nullified during the tournament.

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Re: So we gonna ignore the fact Tenshinhan got trashed??

Post by HeroR » Fri May 19, 2017 3:11 pm

Lord Beerus wrote: Nope. Flight abilities are nullified during the tournament.
That wasn't said. Only outside the ring.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: So we gonna ignore the fact Tenshinhan got trashed??

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri May 19, 2017 3:23 pm

HeroR wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote: Nope. Flight abilities are nullified during the tournament.
That wasn't said. Only outside the ring.
Just double checked the episode and you're right.

My mistake.
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Re: So we gonna ignore the fact Tenshinhan got trashed??

Post by HeroR » Fri May 19, 2017 3:28 pm

Lord Beerus wrote: Just double checked the and you're right.

My mistake.
No problem. I see people make this mistake all the time.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: So we gonna ignore the fact Tenshinhan got trashed??

Post by Shinda Forever » Fri May 19, 2017 5:42 pm

precita wrote:Tien got destroyed as a character because Gohan knocked the crap out of him, a character who is millions of times stronger than he is?
He lost with Roshi.

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Re: So we gonna ignore the fact Tenshinhan got trashed??

Post by JulieYBM » Sat May 20, 2017 3:47 pm

TekTheNinja wrote:
JulieYBM wrote: It's fine and dandy to want things to be different (I'm nowhere near pleased with the series as a whole), but you need to have the perspective to understand where you fall and what one can realistically accomplish.
So you're saying we shouldn't complain or voice our opinions on pretty much anything then? I mean it doesn't matter that Toriyama's never gonna read through Kanzenshuu or anything. No one thinks that. Forums are for voicing opinions and that's what will people do. I mean I don't know what you expect, for people to just ignore faults and only give blind praise?
No, I am saying you are doing a terrible job of accomplishing or contributing anything for yourself or others and as a result of that perhaps you should try to put your feelings into something productive, rather than repeating the same tired tirades about wanting to be listened to and acquiesced.
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Re: So we gonna ignore the fact Tenshinhan got trashed??

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Sun May 21, 2017 8:56 am

Ki Breaker wrote:Tien got bodied by roshi, he shouldn't be here anymore, forget Krillin, compare him with Yamcha from now..
He was caught off guard by a shock also didn't wanna kill roshi, but yeah leats ignore that

Also, aside from the being thoroughly discussed in episode threads and shitstorming the power level threads, yeah, we so gonna ignore that..
Tien clearly came with the intention of taking Muten Roshi down and he got zapped like a fly.
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Re: So we gonna ignore the fact Tenshinhan got trashed??

Post by blackbewhite2k7 » Tue May 23, 2017 12:31 pm

Shinda Forever wrote:After the last two episodes Tenshinhan was destroyed as a character. I believe he will be pulled out of the team regardless the last scan where he does so well.
Yeah, I think you guys might be missing quite a few details, here...

The Bankoku Bikkuri Shō that possessed Roshi used is NOT some mundane ki attack. It's a last resort, surprise technique (the word "surprise is literally in the translation of the name) used to subdue and paralyze stronger opponents with a bare minimum of 20,000 volts of electricity that nearly killed Goku under MUCH less intensity. When hit by it at 100%, Tien was hurt and winded, but nowhere near killed by it. It's the deadliest attack in Roshi's arsenal, which is designed to use your own ki against you. Super is constantly showing us that being caught off guard can drastically affect the outcome of battle. For example, Goku getting shot by laser gun, Vegeta getting killed by frieza blowing the planet up, Goku losing to Frost, Gohan losing to Krillin AND piccolo all of those fights were lost by getting caught off guard....... So seeing Tien "losing" against Roshi doesn't necessarily mean Roshi > Tien, just like Frost is not stronger than Goku.

Tien took one punch and then ran straight into a move he's never seen, and payed for it. Not an indication he's too weak to fight in the tournament. Especially since that same episodes closing narration still classifies him as on of the 10 "strongest fighters in the universe" This is WHY Goku wanted Roshi on the team in the first place. He busts out techniques his opponents never saw coming, regardless of power gap. The plot convenience training/filler magic talisman crap is just a formality. Suggesting he's weaker than the series' buttmonkey (Yamcha) is absurd.

Secondly, The episode it's made a point of Roshi being WAY stronger than anyone expected him to be whilst at 100% (assuming the magic Yurin used didn't boost his power like it clearly did Tenshinhan's students) He was fighting on par with Goku (both fighters aura's blazing and neither landing a punch or kick on the other), who flat out said he was "counting on" Tien's help to finish the fight as quickly as he had (hint, ordering chioatzu to distract the one controlling Roshi so he couldn't dodge Goku's Kamehameha)

At worst, the series retconned Roshi to be stronger then Tien is now, and not saying that Tien is weaker than everyone thought Roshi was previously. Goku and Gohan don't have any objections to Ten being on the team, like the latter did with Krillin, and there's been nothing to suggest Tien will be taken off the team. Hell, there's no guarantee they're going to commit to having Frieza join u7 and replace buu in the end either.

In Episode 90, He took two heavy blows from gohan and an explosive wave from Piccolo without being knocked out, and even came close to blowing Piccolo away whilst the latter was left open. Had Goku been able to keep Gohan from intercepting, he would have knocked Piccolo Out of Bounds (tourney rules) He was fighting against two people leagues ahead of any human fighter in what he thought was going to be a simple warm up match. He was literally the one person in that 2v2 who was still straight up being lied to about whats at stake. Also take into account Gohan has seen Tien fight against Freeza's men and wanted him to test his new power alongside Goku. He respect tien and still does well after the fight was finished.

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Re: So we gonna ignore the fact Tenshinhan got trashed??

Post by JulianStyles » Tue May 23, 2017 3:43 pm

blackbewhite2k7 wrote:
Shinda Forever wrote:After the last two episodes Tenshinhan was destroyed as a character. I believe he will be pulled out of the team regardless the last scan where he does so well.
Yeah, I think you guys might be missing quite a few details, here...

The Bankoku Bikkuri Shō that possessed Roshi used is NOT some mundane ki attack. It's a last resort, surprise technique (the word "surprise is literally in the translation of the name) used to subdue and paralyze stronger opponents with a bare minimum of 20,000 volts of electricity that nearly killed Goku under MUCH less intensity. When hit by it at 100%, Tien was hurt and winded, but nowhere near killed by it. It's the deadliest attack in Roshi's arsenal, which is designed to use your own ki against you. Super is constantly showing us that being caught off guard can drastically affect the outcome of battle. For example, Goku getting shot by laser gun, Vegeta getting killed by frieza blowing the planet up, Goku losing to Frost, Gohan losing to Krillin AND piccolo all of those fights were lost by getting caught off guard....... So seeing Tien "losing" against Roshi doesn't necessarily mean Roshi > Tien, just like Frost is not stronger than Goku.

Tien took one punch and then ran straight into a move he's never seen, and payed for it. Not an indication he's too weak to fight in the tournament. Especially since that same episodes closing narration still classifies him as on of the 10 "strongest fighters in the universe" This is WHY Goku wanted Roshi on the team in the first place. He busts out techniques his opponents never saw coming, regardless of power gap. The plot convenience training/filler magic talisman crap is just a formality. Suggesting he's weaker than the series' buttmonkey (Yamcha) is absurd.

Secondly, The episode it's made a point of Roshi being WAY stronger than anyone expected him to be whilst at 100% (assuming the magic Yurin used didn't boost his power like it clearly did Tenshinhan's students) He was fighting on par with Goku (both fighters aura's blazing and neither landing a punch or kick on the other), who flat out said he was "counting on" Tien's help to finish the fight as quickly as he had (hint, ordering chioatzu to distract the one controlling Roshi so he couldn't dodge Goku's Kamehameha)

At worst, the series retconned Roshi to be stronger then Tien is now, and not saying that Tien is weaker than everyone thought Roshi was previously. Goku and Gohan don't have any objections to Ten being on the team, like the latter did with Krillin, and there's been nothing to suggest Tien will be taken off the team. Hell, there's no guarantee they're going to commit to having Frieza join u7 and replace buu in the end either.

In Episode 90, He took two heavy blows from gohan and an explosive wave from Piccolo without being knocked out, and even came close to blowing Piccolo away whilst the latter was left open. Had Goku been able to keep Gohan from intercepting, he would have knocked Piccolo Out of Bounds (tourney rules) He was fighting against two people leagues ahead of any human fighter in what he thought was going to be a simple warm up match. He was literally the one person in that 2v2 who was still straight up being lied to about whats at stake. Also take into account Gohan has seen Tien fight against Freeza's men and wanted him to test his new power alongside Goku. He respect tien and still does well after the fight was finished.
This.

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Re: So we gonna ignore the fact Tenshinhan got trashed??

Post by Shinda Forever » Wed May 24, 2017 10:22 am

blackbewhite2k7 wrote:
Shinda Forever wrote:After the last two episodes Tenshinhan was destroyed as a character. I believe he will be pulled out of the team regardless the last scan where he does so well.
Yeah, I think you guys might be missing quite a few details, here...

The Bankoku Bikkuri Shō that possessed Roshi used is NOT some mundane ki attack. It's a last resort, surprise technique (the word "surprise is literally in the translation of the name) used to subdue and paralyze stronger opponents with a bare minimum of 20,000 volts of electricity that nearly killed Goku under MUCH less intensity. When hit by it at 100%, Tien was hurt and winded, but nowhere near killed by it. It's the deadliest attack in Roshi's arsenal, which is designed to use your own ki against you. Super is constantly showing us that being caught off guard can drastically affect the outcome of battle. For example, Goku getting shot by laser gun, Vegeta getting killed by frieza blowing the planet up, Goku losing to Frost, Gohan losing to Krillin AND piccolo all of those fights were lost by getting caught off guard....... So seeing Tien "losing" against Roshi doesn't necessarily mean Roshi > Tien, just like Frost is not stronger than Goku.

Tien took one punch and then ran straight into a move he's never seen, and payed for it. Not an indication he's too weak to fight in the tournament. Especially since that same episodes closing narration still classifies him as on of the 10 "strongest fighters in the universe" This is WHY Goku wanted Roshi on the team in the first place. He busts out techniques his opponents never saw coming, regardless of power gap. The plot convenience training/filler magic talisman crap is just a formality. Suggesting he's weaker than the series' buttmonkey (Yamcha) is absurd.

Secondly, The episode it's made a point of Roshi being WAY stronger than anyone expected him to be whilst at 100% (assuming the magic Yurin used didn't boost his power like it clearly did Tenshinhan's students) He was fighting on par with Goku (both fighters aura's blazing and neither landing a punch or kick on the other), who flat out said he was "counting on" Tien's help to finish the fight as quickly as he had (hint, ordering chioatzu to distract the one controlling Roshi so he couldn't dodge Goku's Kamehameha)

At worst, the series retconned Roshi to be stronger then Tien is now, and not saying that Tien is weaker than everyone thought Roshi was previously. Goku and Gohan don't have any objections to Ten being on the team, like the latter did with Krillin, and there's been nothing to suggest Tien will be taken off the team. Hell, there's no guarantee they're going to commit to having Frieza join u7 and replace buu in the end either.

In Episode 90, He took two heavy blows from gohan and an explosive wave from Piccolo without being knocked out, and even came close to blowing Piccolo away whilst the latter was left open. Had Goku been able to keep Gohan from intercepting, he would have knocked Piccolo Out of Bounds (tourney rules) He was fighting against two people leagues ahead of any human fighter in what he thought was going to be a simple warm up match. He was literally the one person in that 2v2 who was still straight up being lied to about whats at stake. Also take into account Gohan has seen Tien fight against Freeza's men and wanted him to test his new power alongside Goku. He respect tien and still does well after the fight was finished.

Tenshinhan wasn't caught off guard, he directly attacked Roshi and was unable to evade the attack, at least for me that says all about him as a fighter.
Tenshinhan didn't do absolutely anything noteworthy during his recruitment, he basically had his ass kicked by everyone. I bet Yamcha surpassed him as well.

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Re: So we gonna ignore the fact Tenshinhan got trashed??

Post by blackbewhite2k7 » Wed May 24, 2017 12:53 pm

Shinda Forever wrote:
blackbewhite2k7 wrote:
Shinda Forever wrote:After the last two episodes Tenshinhan was destroyed as a character. I believe he will be pulled out of the team regardless the last scan where he does so well.
Yeah, I think you guys might be missing quite a few details, here...

The Bankoku Bikkuri Shō that possessed Roshi used is NOT some mundane ki attack. It's a last resort, surprise technique (the word "surprise is literally in the translation of the name) used to subdue and paralyze stronger opponents with a bare minimum of 20,000 volts of electricity that nearly killed Goku under MUCH less intensity. When hit by it at 100%, Tien was hurt and winded, but nowhere near killed by it. It's the deadliest attack in Roshi's arsenal, which is designed to use your own ki against you. Super is constantly showing us that being caught off guard can drastically affect the outcome of battle. For example, Goku getting shot by laser gun, Vegeta getting killed by frieza blowing the planet up, Goku losing to Frost, Gohan losing to Krillin AND piccolo all of those fights were lost by getting caught off guard....... So seeing Tien "losing" against Roshi doesn't necessarily mean Roshi > Tien, just like Frost is not stronger than Goku.

Tien took one punch and then ran straight into a move he's never seen, and payed for it. Not an indication he's too weak to fight in the tournament. Especially since that same episodes closing narration still classifies him as on of the 10 "strongest fighters in the universe" This is WHY Goku wanted Roshi on the team in the first place. He busts out techniques his opponents never saw coming, regardless of power gap. The plot convenience training/filler magic talisman crap is just a formality. Suggesting he's weaker than the series' buttmonkey (Yamcha) is absurd.

Secondly, The episode it's made a point of Roshi being WAY stronger than anyone expected him to be whilst at 100% (assuming the magic Yurin used didn't boost his power like it clearly did Tenshinhan's students) He was fighting on par with Goku (both fighters aura's blazing and neither landing a punch or kick on the other), who flat out said he was "counting on" Tien's help to finish the fight as quickly as he had (hint, ordering chioatzu to distract the one controlling Roshi so he couldn't dodge Goku's Kamehameha)

At worst, the series retconned Roshi to be stronger then Tien is now, and not saying that Tien is weaker than everyone thought Roshi was previously. Goku and Gohan don't have any objections to Ten being on the team, like the latter did with Krillin, and there's been nothing to suggest Tien will be taken off the team. Hell, there's no guarantee they're going to commit to having Frieza join u7 and replace buu in the end either.

In Episode 90, He took two heavy blows from gohan and an explosive wave from Piccolo without being knocked out, and even came close to blowing Piccolo away whilst the latter was left open. Had Goku been able to keep Gohan from intercepting, he would have knocked Piccolo Out of Bounds (tourney rules) He was fighting against two people leagues ahead of any human fighter in what he thought was going to be a simple warm up match. He was literally the one person in that 2v2 who was still straight up being lied to about whats at stake. Also take into account Gohan has seen Tien fight against Freeza's men and wanted him to test his new power alongside Goku. He respect tien and still does well after the fight was finished.

Tenshinhan wasn't caught off guard, he directly attacked Roshi and was unable to evade the attack, at least for me that says all about him as a fighter.
Tenshinhan didn't do absolutely anything noteworthy during his recruitment, he basically had his ass kicked by everyone. I bet Yamcha surpassed him as well.
Roshi using that technique on Goku directly during their first fight didn't make it any less of a surprise technique with all of the other properties I mentioned. This was the first time in years that move was used in years, let alone @ 100% power. Neither of the two it was used on saw it coming, nor ever before. There's also no dodging a literally shock-wave from that close a distance. During the fight,Tien used no energy, nor powered up (like he demonstrated to his students earlier), nor any of his signature blasts, unlike possessed Roshi who went straight to his deadliest move, which again...came nowhere close to Killing the former. It's not unreasonable to say Tien was holding back, or at least wasn't out for blood, like the old man was under Yurin's spell.

We've seen tenshinhan take several of Frieza's men and even save Krillin once. He's a capable enough fighter for Gohan to ask to him to "test his new power" alongside his dad. If you think Gohan's post-training sparring match would have been written differently with any other human fighter in Tenshinhan's place...no. The former is on a whole different lever than when he fought Lavenda and Krillin and episode 90 was mainly to showcase that.

Even if Roshi's been retconned to be stronger than anyone thought (or than what makes any sense), that says nothing about Yamcha. If Goku even remotely thought Yamcha was worth recruiting, he'd have done so back in 83 (when he was right there). We've seen that Yamcha has done absolutely nothing but wait at his house for hours expecting an invitation for nothing. It's actually pretty OoC considering Yamcha has been pretty adamant about retiring from martial arts since the early buu arc and refused to take place in a casual tournament with Gohan, Videl and the others. Tien never stopped Training and Krillin is back in his prime. The choice is fairly obvious.

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Re: So we gonna ignore the fact Tenshinhan got trashed??

Post by Akyon » Wed May 24, 2017 2:17 pm

blackbewhite2k7 wrote:
Even if Roshi's been retconned to be stronger than anyone thought (or than what makes any sense), that says nothing about Yamcha. If Goku even remotely thought Yamcha was worth recruiting, he'd have done so back in 83 (when he was right there). We've seen that Yamcha has done absolutely nothing but wait at his house for hours expecting an invitation for nothing. It's actually pretty OoC considering Yamcha has been pretty adamant about retiring from martial arts since the early buu arc and refused to take place in a casual tournament with Gohan, Videl and the others. Tien never stopped Training and Krillin is back in his prime. The choice is fairly obvious.
Weirdly though we do see Yamcha train a little with Piccolo in the BoG arc(not doing anything particularly stressful, he's just practicing throwing punches and Piccolo is hand blocking them all) and he's proud enough of his martial arts to brag to Beerus about him being a great martial artist. Whilst inevitably a gag, Yamcha may have not entirely abandoned the martial arts lifestyle and a quick "he was training in secret" could just as easily shake up the status quo once again.
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Re: So we gonna ignore the fact Tenshinhan got trashed??

Post by blackbewhite2k7 » Wed May 24, 2017 2:43 pm

Akyon wrote:
blackbewhite2k7 wrote:
Even if Roshi's been retconned to be stronger than anyone thought (or than what makes any sense), that says nothing about Yamcha. If Goku even remotely thought Yamcha was worth recruiting, he'd have done so back in 83 (when he was right there). We've seen that Yamcha has done absolutely nothing but wait at his house for hours expecting an invitation for nothing. It's actually pretty OoC considering Yamcha has been pretty adamant about retiring from martial arts since the early buu arc and refused to take place in a casual tournament with Gohan, Videl and the others. Tien never stopped Training and Krillin is back in his prime. The choice is fairly obvious.
Weirdly though we do see Yamcha train a little with Piccolo in the BoG arc(not doing anything particularly stressful, he's just practicing throwing punches and Piccolo is hand blocking them all) and he's proud enough of his martial arts to brag to Beerus about him being a great martial artist. Whilst inevitably a gag, Yamcha may have not entirely abandoned the martial arts lifestyle and a quick "he was training in secret" could just as easily shake up the status quo once again.
That...seems like a bit of reaching, but whatever. It's not like Super's writing has been that good since the start.

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Re: So we gonna ignore the fact Tenshinhan got trashed??

Post by blackbewhite2k7 » Wed May 24, 2017 8:30 pm

I also shouldn't need to explain why a move like the kikoho/shin kikoho would be extremely useful for a battle royale in which knocking opponents Out of Bounds is the objective, should I?
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Re: So we gonna ignore the fact Tenshinhan got trashed??

Post by JulianStyles » Wed May 24, 2017 9:09 pm

Episode 91 Roshi cant fly. Which disputes what he did in 89. Also these episodes are pretty much filler. Yes Super is different from Z in regards of whats filler and not. But these recruitment episodes are written by the same types that wrote Yamcha beating Olibu or Yamcha beating Krillin. Or Z warriors on Kais place beating the Ginyu force. The Garlic Jr Saga the the movies ect.

If you want to take everything in Super literal then you have to ask where is Arale? Take episodes like that serious. Gohan was on SS Goku level the episode Goku went to find Krillin to go into the woods. Goku was training with Piccolo after ROF. Just to be said hes weak again to him fighting Goku then to be said weak again to fighting in the preliminaries get strong just to be weak again then unlocking mystic. Now hes strong again.

Super is a mess because Akira writes a page and they have to make an entire arc out of it. Episode 89 was pointless and badly written. No reason to introduce Yurin and that back story, having a mini threat turned out to be boring. And creating drama and coming up for a reason how Roshi will be relevant. Tenshinhan didnt need explaining to be in the tournament. So Tien was used as a show for Roshi. If you think this was canon then Goku and 17 fighting space poachers is canon. Or Satan fighting Aliens is canon. Or Goku being hurt by a bullet. Akira has not written this. The only thing to pay attention to is the tournament.

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