So we gonna ignore the fact Tenshinhan got trashed??

[Shinda Forever]

Even if Roshi's been retconned to be stronger than anyone thought (or than what makes any sense), that says nothing about Yamcha. If Goku even remotely thought Yamcha was worth recruiting, he'd have done so back in 83 (when he was right there). We've seen that Yamcha has done absolutely nothing but wait at his house for hours expecting an invitation for nothing. It's actually pretty OoC considering Yamcha has been pretty adamant about retiring from martial arts since the early buu arc and refused to take place in a casual tournament with Gohan, Videl and the others. Tien never stopped Training and Krillin is back in his prime. The choice is fairly obvious.

Weirdly though we do see Yamcha train a little with Piccolo in the BoG arc(not doing anything particularly stressful, he's just practicing throwing punches and Piccolo is hand blocking them all) and he's proud enough of his martial arts to brag to Beerus about him being a great martial artist. Whilst inevitably a gag, Yamcha may have not entirely abandoned the martial arts lifestyle and a quick "he was training in secret" could just as easily shake up the status quo once again.

Precisely what i wanted to say, that's why i believe Yamcha also surpassed Tenshinhan. If Roshi did it Yamcha can do it as well.

[Roronoa-pt]

After the last two episodes Tenshinhan was destroyed as a character. I believe he will be pulled out of the team regardless the last scan where he does so well.

Yeah, I think you guys might be missing quite a few details, here...

The Bankoku Bikkuri Shō that possessed Roshi used is NOT some mundane ki attack. It's a last resort, surprise technique (the word "surprise is literally in the translation of the name) used to subdue and paralyze stronger opponents with a bare minimum of 20,000 volts of electricity that nearly killed Goku under MUCH less intensity. When hit by it at 100%, Tien was hurt and winded, but nowhere near killed by it. It's the deadliest attack in Roshi's arsenal, which is designed to use your own ki against you. Super is constantly showing us that being caught off guard can drastically affect the outcome of battle. For example, Goku getting shot by laser gun, Vegeta getting killed by frieza blowing the planet up, Goku losing to Frost, Gohan losing to Krillin AND piccolo all of those fights were lost by getting caught off guard....... So seeing Tien "losing" against Roshi doesn't necessarily mean Roshi > Tien, just like Frost is not stronger than Goku.

Tien took one punch and then ran straight into a move he's never seen, and payed for it. Not an indication he's too weak to fight in the tournament. Especially since that same episodes closing narration still classifies him as on of the 10 "strongest fighters in the universe" This is WHY Goku wanted Roshi on the team in the first place. He busts out techniques his opponents never saw coming, regardless of power gap. The plot convenience training/filler magic talisman crap is just a formality. Suggesting he's weaker than the series' buttmonkey (Yamcha) is absurd.

Secondly, The episode it's made a point of Roshi being WAY stronger than anyone expected him to be whilst at 100% (assuming the magic Yurin used didn't boost his power like it clearly did Tenshinhan's students) He was fighting on par with Goku (both fighters aura's blazing and neither landing a punch or kick on the other), who flat out said he was "counting on" Tien's help to finish the fight as quickly as he had (hint, ordering chioatzu to distract the one controlling Roshi so he couldn't dodge Goku's Kamehameha)

At worst, the series retconned Roshi to be stronger then Tien is now, and not saying that Tien is weaker than everyone thought Roshi was previously. Goku and Gohan don't have any objections to Ten being on the team, like the latter did with Krillin, and there's been nothing to suggest Tien will be taken off the team. Hell, there's no guarantee they're going to commit to having Frieza join u7 and replace buu in the end either.

In Episode 90, He took two heavy blows from gohan and an explosive wave from Piccolo without being knocked out, and even came close to blowing Piccolo away whilst the latter was left open. Had Goku been able to keep Gohan from intercepting, he would have knocked Piccolo Out of Bounds (tourney rules) He was fighting against two people leagues ahead of any human fighter in what he thought was going to be a simple warm up match. He was literally the one person in that 2v2 who was still straight up being lied to about whats at stake. Also take into account Gohan has seen Tien fight against Freeza's men and wanted him to test his new power alongside Goku. He respect tien and still does well after the fight was finished.

Great read. I fully agree with you. Keep posting

[GodKaio-Ken]

Say all you want about being ht off guard, it doesnt change the fact he looked and acted scared like a little girl during the sparring match.

[Shinda Forever]

Say all you want about being ht off guard, it doesnt change the fact he looked and acted scared like a little girl during the sparring match.

He looked like a scared bitch during the sparring match and obviously, he wasn't caught off guard, the mofo did a straightforward attack with 4 four arms to beat someone weak and old like Roshi and since z fighters are slow, he was unable to do an after image attack and counter Roshi basic move. The man was out of breath completely defeated. Plus, he was supposed to use a unique technique in the sparring match, but, somehow he didn't do shit.

[blackbewhite2k7]

Even if Roshi's been retconned to be stronger than anyone thought (or than what makes any sense), that says nothing about Yamcha. If Goku even remotely thought Yamcha was worth recruiting, he'd have done so back in 83 (when he was right there). We've seen that Yamcha has done absolutely nothing but wait at his house for hours expecting an invitation for nothing. It's actually pretty OoC considering Yamcha has been pretty adamant about retiring from martial arts since the early buu arc and refused to take place in a casual tournament with Gohan, Videl and the others. Tien never stopped Training and Krillin is back in his prime. The choice is fairly obvious.

Weirdly though we do see Yamcha train a little with Piccolo in the BoG arc(not doing anything particularly stressful, he's just practicing throwing punches and Piccolo is hand blocking them all) and he's proud enough of his martial arts to brag to Beerus about him being a great martial artist. Whilst inevitably a gag, Yamcha may have not entirely abandoned the martial arts lifestyle and a quick "he was training in secret" could just as easily shake up the status quo once again.

Precisely what i wanted to say, that's why i believe Yamcha also surpassed Tenshinhan. If Roshi did it Yamcha can do it as well.

Are we going to pretend Roshi hasn't been framed in a much more respectable light then Yamcha since the resurrection f movie/arc? Hell, are we going to pretend Yamcha has even half the experience, laundry list of techniques, and track record of success and importance Roshi has had throughout dragon ball as a whole?

The few times we've seen the old man fight at full power, he blew up the moon, fought dozens of Freeza's men alongside the other z fighters, and gave Goku a good fight which the latter got excited from


If the only recent examples in Yamcha's favor is that he gave an antagonist a friendly slap on the back, he can use his energy to cheat in a game of baseball and that he didn't die at the end of a comedic relief filler episode in which he was constantly a laughingstock...then yeah, I'd say there is a lot Roshi can do that Yamcha cant

And I love this reaction...when the U7 roster was announced, nobody would shut up about Roshi being too weak, but when an episode (and even an arc well before that) establishes that he's way, WAY stronger than even Goku thought, it's all "LOL Tien is weaker than a 'weakling' like Roshi?" Hint, hint...anyone who can clash blows like that with Goku, both aura's blazing is not weaker than a Saibaman, anymore.

Is it a stretch for Roshi to be stronger then any of the Z fighters that contradict his passing of the torch to the younger generation? Yes. But at least you can rationalize it, given everything we know, and don't, about him.

[precita]

Is it a stretch that roshi would be stronger then any of the x fighters that contradict his passi g of the torch to the younger generation? Yes. But at least you can rationalize it, given everything we know, and don't, about him.

Because realistically it makes no sense. Roshi can't even fly. Yamcha and Tien were able to climb Korin's tower, train with Kami and on King Kai's planet under intense gravity. They said Yamcha and Tien made it across snake way faster than Goku did when he died.

Even if Roshi trained he shouldn't be any stronger than Radditz at best. It makes no sense.

[blackbewhite2k7]

Is it a stretch that roshi would be stronger then any of the x fighters that contradict his passi g of the torch to the younger generation? Yes. But at least you can rationalize it, given everything we know, and don't, about him.

Because realistically it makes no sense. Roshi can't even fly. Yamcha and Tien were able to climb Korin's tower, train with Kami and on King Kai's planet under intense gravity. They said Yamcha and Tien made it across snake way faster than Goku did when he died.

Even if Roshi trained he shouldn't be any stronger than Radditz at best. It makes no sense.

I'm not saying it's particularly well written, I'm saying that between the two, Super has framed Roshi better than Z has and much better than it has Yamcha.

[blackbewhite2k7]

Say all you want about being ht off guard, it doesnt change the fact he looked and acted scared like a little girl during the sparring match.

He looked like a scared bitch during the sparring match and obviously, he wasn't caught off guard, the mofo did a straightforward attack with 4 four arms to beat someone weak and old like Roshi and since z fighters are slow, he was unable to do an after image attack and counter Roshi basic move. The man was out of breath completely defeated. Plus, he was supposed to use a unique technique in the sparring match, but, somehow he didn't do shit.

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Thunder_Shock_Surprise "Basic attack" huh? 5 seconds worth of research goes a long way, friendo.

Also, it's not a good sign when a Japanese children's show can hammer it in that one of it's characters is not some "weak old man" and still fly way over your head, is it?

If you're not even going to bother reading through someone's response all the way through, than don't bother commenting back at all, dude.

[blackbewhite2k7]

Say all you want about being ht off guard, it doesnt change the fact he looked and acted scared like a little girl during the sparring match.

Umm...why? For being...

A) the one fighter in the 2v2 who doesn't know (ie still being lied to about) the stakes of the tournament?

B) Being completely rational given he thought this was just a warm-up match given the main event is less than 5 hours away?

C) Taking 2 heavy blows (without getting knocked out) from a newly trained Gohan with something to prove, nearly knocking Piccolo Out of Bounds with his second strongest move had Goku been able to keep Gohan occupied, and Watching Goku's back so Piccolo's explosive wave didn't take him off guard?

D) Being matched up against 2 fighters who are stronger than every major/secondary human fighter put together, whilst he and his partner aren't working together nearly as well as their opponents are?

Of course he wasn't going to throw his life on the line against his own friends in a training match when he thinks nothing serious is at risk, like he did against Cell and Buu.

[The_Destroyer]

Tien got destroyed as a character because Gohan knocked the crap out of him, a character who is millions of times stronger than he is?

I think it has to do with the fact that he didn't have a single good showing in 89 or 90. Yes, one can justify his loss to Roshi and Gohan, but when Krillin beats Base Gohan and has a beam struggle with SSB Goku, and Roshi gets to go toe-to-toe with base Goku and Tien doesn't have single good showing so far, it does make his character look bad.

[Miracles]

Tenshinhan is obviously going to improve.

[NerdintheBay]

Is it a stretch that roshi would be stronger then any of the x fighters that contradict his passi g of the torch to the younger generation? Yes. But at least you can rationalize it, given everything we know, and don't, about him.

Because realistically it makes no sense. Roshi can't even fly. Yamcha and Tien were able to climb Korin's tower, train with Kami and on King Kai's planet under intense gravity. They said Yamcha and Tien made it across snake way faster than Goku did when he died.

Even if Roshi trained he shouldn't be any stronger than Radditz at best. It makes no sense.

You forget that he's semi Immortal aka on the Infinity Formula Nick Fury style as long as Roshi continues to have some paradise grass. Also the comment mentioned from Dende about not realizing that there are strong people on earth still. We still don't know what the earth fully looks like in the db universe. For what we know there can be an even better training location than the Hyperbolic Time Chamber or a Capsule Corp. ship or King Kai's planet.

[Israelite Wolfman]

The scene in today's episode (92) where Tien is hesitating over Krillin's suggestion for a sparring match should be a hint by Toei/Toriyama to settle the debates of who between them is the strongest Human.

[precita]

I really wonder what they will do with Tenshinhan in the tournament. Bringing him in just for him to bomb out quickly would be pointless. I'd rather have just seen Trunks and Goten then, because this is just getting ridiculous.

[JulianStyles]

The scene in today's episode (92) where Tien is hesitating over Krillin's suggestion for a sparring match should be a hint by Toei/Toriyama to settle the debates of who between them is the strongest Human.

Hints? Was it a hint when Krillin spent first part of Super scared while Tenshinhan getting glory and saving Krillins life in ROF saga? Tien frowned because just like Gohan he knew another matter was at hand and needed to be solved. Krillin landed all bubbly and ignorant. While Tenshinhan was focused on the problem at hand.These episodes are Toei filler and not Akiras writing or synopsis. Toei wrote Yamcha and Yajorobi beating Krillin in sparing matches in Z. Yes Super is running different. Its less organized. Every week new animators and story writers come in to make up an episode. Nothings settled because they have been recruited under different circumstances. Krillin in a friendly test with a weak Gohan. Tien under a real threat and a zombie Roshi that was attacking to kill. And Tien facing a stronger more focused Gohan not allowing Tien to get anything off the ground. If that was Krillin it would be same story, possibly worse as Krillin might have been knocked out while Tenshinhan wasnt.

[Shinda Forever]

Say all you want about being ht off guard, it doesnt change the fact he looked and acted scared like a little girl during the sparring match.

He looked like a scared bitch during the sparring match and obviously, he wasn't caught off guard, the mofo did a straightforward attack with 4 four arms to beat someone weak and old like Roshi and since z fighters are slow, he was unable to do an after image attack and counter Roshi basic move. The man was out of breath completely defeated. Plus, he was supposed to use a unique technique in the sparring match, but, somehow he didn't do shit.

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Thunder_Shock_Surprise "Basic attack" huh? 5 seconds worth of research goes a long way, friendo.

Also, it's not a good sign when a Japanese children's show can hammer it in that one of it's characters is not some "weak old man" and still fly way over your head, is it?

If you're not even going to bother reading through someone's response all the way through, than don't bother commenting back at all, dude.

What i meant is that it is an attack easy to dodge for a Z fighter, friendo.
You are the one who is not reading what i'm writing instead you are just making excuses for the fact that Tenshinhan was defeated by an old man who didn't receive so many special trainings like Tenshinhan, therefore, you missed the whole point. Tenshinhan is weaker than Roshi, everything else are only excuses.

The scene in today's episode (92) where Tien is hesitating over Krillin's suggestion for a sparring match should be a hint by Toei/Toriyama to settle the debates of who between them is the strongest Human.

Tenshinhan is weaker than Roshi, therefore, there is no debate anymore. Of course, Tenshinhan hesitated to face Kuririn, because, he would be destroyed very quickly.

[Akyon]

The scene in today's episode (92) where Tien is hesitating over Krillin's suggestion for a sparring match should be a hint by Toei/Toriyama to settle the debates of who between them is the strongest Human.

Hints? Was it a hint when Krillin spent first part of Super scared while Tenshinhan getting glory and saving Krillins life in ROF saga? Tien frowned because just like Gohan he knew another matter was at hand and needed to be solved. Krillin landed all bubbly and ignorant. While Tenshinhan was focused on the problem at hand.

Are you referring to Buu being asleep? Tien was no more in the know than Krillin about the actual stakes of this tournament. I do agree this was in no way a hint as to who was stronger.

Although screw you Toei, I actually wanted to see a friendly spar between these two. I got so excited before it got blown off. I'd of been fine with a nice draw even if you didn't want to settle the score.

Honestly though as a Krillin fan, I must say I find the rabidness of the Tien fans hatred towards Krillin pretty disheartening.

[blackbewhite2k7]

He looked like a scared bitch during the sparring match and obviously, he wasn't caught off guard, the mofo did a straightforward attack with 4 four arms to beat someone weak and old like Roshi and since z fighters are slow, he was unable to do an after image attack and counter Roshi basic move. The man was out of breath completely defeated. Plus, he was supposed to use a unique technique in the sparring match, but, somehow he didn't do shit.

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Thunder_Shock_Surprise "Basic attack" huh? 5 seconds worth of research goes a long way, friendo.

Also, it's not a good sign when a Japanese children's show can hammer it in that one of it's characters is not some "weak old man" and still fly way over your head, is it?

If you're not even going to bother reading through someone's response all the way through, than don't bother commenting back at all, dude.

What i meant is that it is an attack easy to dodge for a Z fighter, friendo.
You are the one who is not reading what i'm writing instead you are just making excuses for the fact that Tenshinhan was defeated by an old man who didn't receive so many special trainings like Tenshinhan, therefore, you missed the whole point. Tenshinhan is weaker than Roshi, everything else are only excuses.

The scene in today's episode (92) where Tien is hesitating over Krillin's suggestion for a sparring match should be a hint by Toei/Toriyama to settle the debates of who between them is the strongest Human.

Tenshinhan is weaker than Roshi, therefore, there is no debate anymore. Of course, Tenshinhan hesitated to face Kuririn, because, he would be destroyed very quickly.

No it isn't. In both instances in which it's been used, that move hit it's mark handily. He whipped out that moved the second Tenshinhan got close enough. The fact that, at worst, Roshi's been retconned to have been "training in secret" or whatever bullshit Super wants to sell, doesn't undo the fact Tiens been intensely training training his whole life, much less that he's one of the ten most qualified people in U7 to fight in the ToP according to the ending narration of exact same episode.

Way to take that scene in 92 out of context, btw.

[Basako]

Are you referring to Buu being asleep? Tien was no more in the know than Krillin about the actual stakes of this tournament. I do agree this was in no way a hint as to who was stronger.

Although screw you Toei, I actually wanted to see a friendly spar between these two. I got so excited before it got blown off. I'd of been fine with a nice draw even if you didn't want to settle the score.

Honestly though as a Krillin fan, I must say I find the rabidness of the Tien fans hatred towards Krillin pretty disheartening.

Maybe you only notice the rabidness and hatred towards the character you like, because if you take a better look to this thread, you may also find disheartening all the hate Ten is getting too.

I like Krilin a lot too, if anything, I have complains about how Toei has portrayed him as scary and like a guy without confidence so many times in Super. Although he has been redeemed a bit last chapters.

I have obviously complains about how Ten has been treated too, he has done nothing in two chapters, but there are the writers to blame for that.

I also feel they have missed the chance to show at least a spar between the two, but in some way I'm relieved, because I don't trust Toei to write this.

[Akyon]

Maybe you only notice the rabidness and hatred towards the character you like, because if you take a better look to this thread, you may also find disheartening all the hate Ten is getting too.

Maybe. But I honestly don't think that's the case.

I once upon a time liked Tenshinhan a lot. Third favourite character in the whole series. I was a massive Earthling fan, because I always liked the idea that someone who doesn't win a genetic lottery can become stronger through the power of hard work and both Tenshinhan and yes; even Krillin and Yamcha, embodied that idea perfectly to me, albeit with varying results. They were all, through the power of training able to rank amongst the most powerful in the universe.

This website(and tbf a lot of others) volatile Tien vs. Krillin debates put me off one side of the argument because it nearly always came down to Tien supporters calling Krillin a wimp, a weakling, a coward, undeserving of 'strongest human' or other pointless more venomous insults that never really help the discussion along.
It's gotten boring and yeah, it has ended up unfortunately tarnishing my enjoyment of Tien since everytime he appears now the same dull talking points come along.

Krillin and Tien are never going to actually fight seriously against one another, and their fighting styles are so different it could easily go in either direction so there's not really any solid conclusion. Some are going to side with Krillin due to it being stated by the author, others prefer a show not tell attitude to story telling and so use Tenshinhan's feats as reason. Either way, fans are going to go with their preferred character anyway, so it's not like anyone's getting swayed.

Frankly I do think Tenshinhan has been getting screwed by Toei as he is the ONLY ToP contestant from U7 to not really get the chance to show off in the recruitment episodes. I'd of loved Tien to get an episode dedicated to himself exclusively without Roshi hijacking it and getting a moment to truly shine rather than looking like an after thought character in his own recruitment episode. He should have been the one to subdue Roshi and in doing so he'd get to show off his skills whilst Master Roshi still doesn't look bad.

Tien getting smacked around by Gohan was inevitable if they seriously sparred. Not even going to count that as getting trashed. Gohan has no chill smashing him through the stage like that though.