Will Vegeta ever address the elephant in the room?

[TBMx]

I notice they have him go back to thinking he will surpass Goku.

He says that, but he doesn't address kaioken. Anyone want to bet that he just comes out of the chamber vaguely stronger in raw strength, but still nothing against Kaioken?

If they're not going to replace Vegeta as Goku's archrival with Hit or Toppo or Jiran (understandable, y'know... money $$) Then you gotta give him something against kaioken. Either that, or don't have him keep talking about surpassing Goku, because it makes him look like a delusional idiot.

[precita]

And here I thought you meant Vegeta speaking to the pink elephant God.

[Chuquita]

You could have Vegeta learn kaio-ken, but there's only two people who know how to do it. He's not gonna ask Gokû (if he was I think that would've happened during their 3 years together in the RoSaT) and getting to North Kaio-sama is something he can't do on his own (Gokû could teleport him there, but Vegeta-being-stubborn-about-Gokû's-help pops up again) so Vegeta'd have to ask either Shin or Whis to take him there and then he'd have to convince North Kaio-sama to teach him the technique.

OR he could spy on Gokû and try to learn it though watching him from a hiding spot.

[sintzu]

I think the reaosn is simply because it was never a Toriyama concept to begin with.

[Basako]

Toriyama gave the last panel of the EoZ to Vegeta saying he would someday surpass Goku. Some things never change.

[MagmonKai]

Kaio-Ken is a rather temporary power-up. My guess is Vegeta want to surpass Goku entirely without the need to resort to such tactics as the kaio-ken.

[Pluto]

Well, he made a confession lately, in the Manga, and there is a dimension of it that i liked and always wondered why DB staff never used it in their advantage.

Simply put, i'd expect "somehow" Vegeta to be able to sense (reverse engineer) all Goku's attacks/techniques and vice versa, due to their minds being merged in to one with fusion.

[TBMx]

Kaio-Ken is a rather temporary power-up. My guess is Vegeta want to surpass Goku entirely without the need to resort to such tactics as the kaio-ken.

Goku seems to be spamming it a lot without negative effects, so I don't buy into the idea that it can be outlasted.

[Gig]

Kaio-Ken is a rather temporary power-up. My guess is Vegeta want to surpass Goku entirely without the need to resort to such tactics as the kaio-ken.

Goku seems to be spamming it a lot without negative effects, so I don't buy into the idea that it can be outlasted.

Unlike the match against Hit, he later used it only for short periods of time, and probably at its standard level (2x) instead of 10x.
Of course, it's also possible that he somewhat "completed" that technique in the meanwhile, making it cause less backfiring to him than before.

I would have liked to see it used more in Zamasu arc... but maybe it may have brought to goku Black doing the same, or maybe he was still too near to his ki disorder syndrome and he hadn't perfected the technique yet. However I would have appreciated if he had used it to win the beam struggle with fused Zamasu...

[omaro34]

Vegeta will never truly pass Goku for a while. It will never be Goku training hard to surpass Vegeta. That was never Goku's goal, it was Vegeta's goal.

Which is sad because he trained for many years and even had a head-start because Vegeta was stronger when they first met.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Kaio-Ken is a rather temporary power-up. My guess is Vegeta want to surpass Goku entirely without the need to resort to such tactics as the kaio-ken.

Goku seems to be spamming it a lot without negative effects, so I don't buy into the idea that it can be outlasted.

Unlike the match against Hit, he later used it only for short periods of time, and probably at its standard level (2x) instead of 10x.
Of course, it's also possible that he somewhat "completed" that technique in the meanwhile, making it cause less backfiring to him than before.

I would have liked to see it used more in Zamasu arc... but maybe it may have brought to goku Black doing the same, or maybe he was still too near to his ki disorder syndrome and he hadn't perfected the technique yet. However I would have appreciated if he had used it to win the beam struggle with fused Zamasu...

Agreed 1000% on the last part.

If it can be controlled though its basically the ultimate form. Even 2x the power of a SSB is a gigantic leap to overcome just through training to catch up.

[Alruneia]

Since the Blue Kaioken isn't in the manga, I'd say he'll never touch upon it. The story isn't going to go that way. I find it more likely that both of them will reach some new level where Kaioken won't apply anymore.

[AnimeNation101]

And here I thought you meant Vegeta speaking to the pink elephant God.

Lol me too

[IKevinX]

And here I thought you meant Vegeta speaking to the pink elephant God.

Lol me too

You made me cough/laugh hard aswell. Jeez

Vegeta will never surpass Goku definitely with SSJ Blue. They need a transformation that nullifies Kaioken for good first.

[cheddarsword]

the problem is, Kaioken in it's current form causes an extreme amount of stress on the body. So much so that the form is considered a last ditch effort.

To beat it, Vegeta would have to be strong enough or skilled enough to outlast Goku's willingness to use it.

However, there could be a bit of a darker option here. I a desperate attempt to beat Vegeta, Goku refuses to drop out of Kaioken. However, after a lengthy battle, Goku can no longer control the form and dies from overextending himself. Even if Vegeta is beating down deaths door, he could still call it a victory due to some twisted Joker Vs. Batman style logic.

*Cough! "Haaa... I-I did it... I p-pushed you, beyond your breaking point... Haha... I... win..."

[Shinda Forever]

I notice they have him go back to thinking he will surpass Goku.

He says that, but he doesn't address kaioken. Anyone want to bet that he just comes out of the chamber vaguely stronger in raw strength, but still nothing against Kaioken?

If they're not going to replace Vegeta as Goku's archrival with Hit or Toppo or Jiran (understandable, y'know... money $$) Then you gotta give him something against kaioken. Either that, or don't have him keep talking about surpassing Goku, because it makes him look like a delusional idiot.

I really hope they replace Vegeta as Goku's archrival with Hit, because, Vegeta says always the same shit and he is always surpassed by Goku in every department. Everyone is tired of Vegeta, we need some fresh air and Hitto can provide that with his awesome abilities, Vegeta hasn't anything to offer except raw power and i'm tired to see him ranting all the time about Goku. Enough is enough, he needs to accept his place like he did in DBZ and move on like Piccolo and Tenshinhan did.

They don't need to give him anything, Vegeta has raw power and that's all, he never did a decent creative technique his entire career and he is not going to start now, because, it goes against his principles. Vegeta believes that raw power can overcome anything.

[Benedetto12]

Without Kaioken, Vegeta is already stronger than Goku. But what can Vegeta do to surpass the Kaioken?

Learning Kaioken is out of discussion, he won´t ask Goku to teach him and he doesn´t even know North Kaio

Getting his potential unleashed like Gohan might work, Old Kaio already offered Goku to do that, but Vegeta is too proud to accept help

Pushing the SSJB to the limits, like he and Trunks pushed SSJ2 to be stronger than SSJ3, don´t know, something like SSJB2

Developing his own technique, after watching Goku´s Kaio Ken, Trunks´s Ikari form or Goku Black´s SSJR

Learning to control his rage and powering up like he did when Bulma was hurt by Beerus

[HeroR]

Without Kaioken, Vegeta is already stronger than Goku. But what can Vegeta do to surpass the Kaioken?

Learning Kaioken is out of discussion, he won´t ask Goku to teach him and he doesn´t even know North Kaio

Getting his potential unleashed like Gohan might work, Old Kaio already offered Goku to do that, but Vegeta is too proud to accept help

Pushing the SSJB to the limits, like he and Trunks pushed SSJ2 to be stronger than SSJ3, don´t know, something like SSJB2

Developing his own technique, after watching Goku´s Kaio Ken, Trunks´s Ikari form or Goku Black´s SSJR

Learning to control his rage and powering up like he did when Bulma was hurt by Beerus

That isn't true since nothing has shown Vegeta being stronger than Goku. All you have is Vegeta beating up Black and Goku one-up that's by melting Merged Zamasu's face. And that was months ago, so we don't know how Vegeta compares to Goku.

And Trunks being stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku is only in the manga.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Without Kaioken, Vegeta is already stronger than Goku. But what can Vegeta do to surpass the Kaioken?

Learning Kaioken is out of discussion, he won´t ask Goku to teach him and he doesn´t even know North Kaio

Getting his potential unleashed like Gohan might work, Old Kaio already offered Goku to do that, but Vegeta is too proud to accept help

Pushing the SSJB to the limits, like he and Trunks pushed SSJ2 to be stronger than SSJ3, don´t know, something like SSJB2

Developing his own technique, after watching Goku´s Kaio Ken, Trunks´s Ikari form or Goku Black´s SSJR

Learning to control his rage and powering up like he did when Bulma was hurt by Beerus

That isn't true since nothing has shown Vegeta being stronger than Goku. All you have is Vegeta beating up Black and Goku one-up that's by melting Merged Zamasu's face. And that was months ago, so we don't know how Vegeta compares to Goku.

And Trunks being stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku is only in the manga.

Agreed..yeah Vegeta came out of the time chamber extremely strong but in the end Goku had the epic feat of the beam clash.

SSB Goku and Vegeta are probably close but no way Vegeta could even keep up with a standard Kaio-Ken.