The Future Trunks Arc Under a Critical Lens

[Shuby]

You mind organizing them better?

Yeah sorry don't know how some of this stuff work still learning lol.

By the logic here, the humans should've rolled and died since they shouldn't even attempt to fight back because it futile.

They did, it fight, didn't work that was the whole point of them relying on the saiyans...

[Kanassa]

I don't know how this shit works sorry for that lol.

Just don't put your replies between the two [quote [/quote] tags, or your reply will be inside the quotes. Which is why most of the people ehre can barely read your replies, as to the eye it's easy to assume that your reply is what they typed.

In the long run did it work not not? Exactly

I'm not seeing the problem here, it didn't work; so what? Are you saying it's bad writing for characters to not be able to see into the future or to do irrational things when pushed into a corner?

What do you mean with objectivity?

The general point of this thread (Seems at least to me) is to place the arc under a 'Critical Lens', an objective lens, to show that objectively it is bad. Your points however are all personal opinions, subjective views on details of the arc. It's not exposing a part of the structure or awkward implementation that can objectively be considered bad writing, you're just saying ''I don't like this and here's why''. Which is completely fine, except you seem to be trying to tout these opinions as objective statements. Please, correct me if I mistook the purpose of this thread.

[HeroR]

They did, it fight, didn't work that was the whole point of them relying on the saiyans...

And they saved those Saiyans' asses once. Several times with Trunks. They worked together and did what they could in spite of their weakness.

[Kanassa]

They did, it fight, didn't work that was the whole point of them relying on the saiyans...

And they saved those Saiyans' asses once. Several times with Trunks. They worked together and did what they could in spite of their weakness.

Basically, they were in a fucked situation and still pushed on no matter what. Which is where some of the HOPE aspect of Trunks comes from in this arc as his determination inspires the wills of those around him to take up arms and back him up. Bringing up another excellent point for the arc, it does a good job of making the civilians (Those random assholes you usually never care about in Dragon Ball) awesome, simple, background characters.

[Shuby]

I'm not seeing the problem here, it didn't work; so what? Are you saying it's bad writing for characters to not be able to see into the future or to do irrational things when pushed into a corner?

I am saying is that they could''ve used the humans in a more proper manner, which they did but not enough of it like Mai taking care of Trunks when he was wounded or humans taking care of other humans, show us more of that instead of something we saw that constantly backfired these humans/characters.

The general point of this thread (Seems at least to me) is to place the arc under a 'Critical Lens', an objective lens, to show that objectively it is bad. Your points however are all personal opinions, subjective views on details of the arc. It's not exposing a part of the structure or awkward implementation that can objectively be considered bad writing, you're just saying ''I don't like this and here's why''. Which is completely fine, except you seem to be trying to tout these opinions as objective statements. Please, correct me if I mistook the purpose of this thread.

Yet you keep harping on the human argument i made, you haven't even countered my other arguments. Under critical lens is basically looking the arc from a critical point of view, and you're perfectly in you right to counter those arguments i made when i critically viewed the arc.

And they saved those Saiyans' asses once. Several times with Trunks. They worked together and did what they could in spite of their weakness.

That's all fine but we saw how it constantly backfired them or them making no progression, they had to introduce bs transformation or messing up with the power scalling to progress the story. We could''ve seen more interesting screem time with these humans.

[Kanassa]

I am saying is that they could''ve used the humans in a more proper manner, which they did but not enough of it like Mai taking care of Trunks when he was wounded or humans taking care of other humans, show us more of that instead of something we saw that constantly backfired these humans/characters

They did use the humans, no matter how bad it got in the arc, the humans were always willing to jump in at a moments notice to face entities they knew could wipe them out with one pinky. They save Goku and Co, they tend to their wounds, they push Trunks's determination and keep him motivated, they try their very best take down Black even if they're fucked, they protect their own from him and they are there at the end helping Trunks in the only way they can when he fights Merged Zamasu.

To say that the humans weren't used a lot is objectively false.

Yet you keep harping on the human argument i made, you haven't even countered my other arguments.

Because that's the only counter argument you made to me, you haven't replied to any of my other arguments.

[Shuby]

They did use the humans, no matter how bad it got in the arc, the humans were always willing to jump in at a moments notice to face entities they knew could wipe them out with one pinky. They save Goku and Co, they tend to their wounds, they push Trunks's determination and keep him motivated, they try their very best take down Black even if they're fucked, they protect their own from him and they are there at the end helping Trunks in the only way they can when he fights Merged Zamasu.

To say that the humans weren't used a lot is objectively false.

Whatever you see fit, the human usage is subjective from viewers, but this argument isn't even the worst thing happening this arc by far.

Because that's the only counter argument you made to me, you haven't replied to any of my other arguments.

I did look back.

[Kanassa]

That shouldn't even happen why is his kamehameha piercing through his strongest attack, while Vegeta and Trunks both using all their strength couldn't? That was also one of the CRITICIZIM people had, he screams full power which is strong enough to pierce through his attack and hit Zamasu and you can clearly see him fighting back unlike the previous ep where he was really off guard enabling Trunks and Vegeta pushing back his death ball or whatever it's called. Not only that it f''ked up his body, while Vegeta and Trunks weren't able to.... and then to make matters even worse Gokus goes at him and fucks him up shouldn't merged Zamasu be too strong to the point Goku's kicks and punches, they should not have any effect on merged Zamasu.

It's simple. Vegeta and Trunks's attack combined cover a larger surface area, so their attack covered most of Zamasu's attack; couple that with the fact that Zamasu wasn't really taking them seriously then and of course the beam pushed the ball back instead of piercing it. In Goku's case, there were two factors, his kamehameha covered a smaller surface area, as well as the added bonus of Zamasu applying much more pressure on his end. It's the different between pushing a block near the same width of an object into said object, and pushing a needle into it. And again, Zamasu is caught by surprised (Look at his expression the moment the Kamehameha pierces the attack).

And then Goku goes to attack Zamasu... Only to be easily caught, until he whips out a move Zamasu has never seen him use. Once again, catching him off guard and delivering a major blow.

His immortaly or half-immortal body isn't how immortality works... that's the whole point.

How do you know that? This is form of immortality not seen in Dragon Ball (In this continuity) before hand, subjected to factors we've never seen interact with immortal characters beforehand.

Plenty of character? Where show me, most of the time we see him saying the same shit over and over again, how is this ,"plenty of character"?

So, they do exactly what I said the show was doing? That's the point. Zamasu's madness is so deep, his self-righteous nature so strong that he can't see the irony of his actions, which the show constantly pokes fun at; because it's doing it on purpose. Vegeta points out the hipocrasy. Even BLACK makes fun of Zamasu for this. Trunks and Mai point out the flaws of his 'justice'. And Vegitto makes jabs at Merged Zaasu around the subject for his whole fight. Fuck, if that's not enough there's a whole scene dedicated to GOWASU EXPLAINING IT ALL to Goku and Co.

[Shuby]

Except that doesn't happen. Vegeta and Trunks combined were able to overwhelm Merged Zamasu. But Goku never overwhelms Merged Zamasu, he pierces the center of Merged Zamasu's attack and completely catches him off guard, then proceeds to whip out a move he has never used against Zamasu, which again catches Zamasu by surprise and allows Goku to deliver a powerful blow. By this point Dragon Ball has made a point to show how effective taking an opponent by surprise can be.

That shouldn't even happen why is his kamehameha piercing through his strongest attack, while Vegeta and Trunks both using all their strength couldn't? That was also one of the CRITICIZIM people had, he screams full power which is strong enough to pierce through his attack and hit Zamasu and you can clearly see him fighting back unlike the previous ep where he was really off guard enabling Trunks and Vegeta pushing back his death ball or whatever it's called. Not only that it f''ked up his body, while Vegeta and Trunks weren't able to.... and then to make matters even worse Gokus goes at him and fucks him up shouldn't merged Zamasu be too strong to the point Goku's kicks and punches, they should not have any effect on merged Zamasu.

I'm not seeing the contradiction here. Roshi became immortal (In a completely different sense than Zamasu), Piccolo obtained Eternal Youth, and the andorids also basically had eternal youth. What does that have to do with the effects of a mortal and an immortal fusing?

Because you''re either immortal or not even, there isn't such thing as "half-immortality" he gained his immortality through the Super Dragon, even though the immortality Zamasu has doesn't even make much sense

Gowasu has plenty of character, it's just that his character usually goes hand in hand with how trusting and incompetent he is at his job.

Plenty of character? Where show me, most of the time we see him saying the same shit over and over again, how is this ,"plenty of character"?

When Trunks realised he couldn't beat Cell, he gave up and accepted that he was going to die. And Trunks DID need his present self's help, one of his core problems is how much he allows his failures to weigh on him.

I actually see a point in here.

Because Beerus didn't just kill Zamasu, he erased him.

We don't know that, what does it mean to be erased and was that specifically stated?

That's the point. The big irony in Zamasu is how much he's resembling the aspects of evil he's on the quest to wash out from the universe. The show is incredibly aware of how hypocritical Zamasu is as even Vegeta and Goku Black point it out. Which makes it even more of a blow to Trunks that these people are daring to put the blame on him after all they've done.

As the members of Kanzenshuu podcast said durning their review of this arc, these characters, none of them, even take Zamasu serious nor do they even listen to him or them, the only dialogue you hear is, "don't underestimate mortals". Other than that they do a shitty job in what you're claiming.

[Kanassa]

Okay, somthing's getting funky with my post. I wrote out this big reply and only two parts of it showed up...

[Freeza9000]

That adds my point, if the barbarian race fueled his hatred for mortals then show us where it started. We don't even know if all gods and or kiaoshins are "incompotent". In u9 we have the pride troopers, in u6 nobel peace prize and saiyans who fight for the well beings of creatures. We don't see Zamasu address the good side if you will, which leaves him at a akward midpoint. So his fueled hatred caused by the barbarians is still weak. If all those you have mentioned before is all he saw, well why didn't he saw the other side of the coin? Why is that area left grey, so his hatred fueled by it leaves us with those questions.

There are numerous mortals shown to repeat this cycle of harming each other so it's pretty hard to pinpoint where Zamasu's hatred for mortals started. A mad scientist created a much of robots/Artificial humans (not to mention kidnapped teenagers and forcefully add cybernetic adjustments to their being) to kill Goku because his precious army was defeated which lead to entire populations of Earth being destroyed and those same artificial humans turned their backs on Gero to kill him and massacre the Earth in order to quench their satisfaction. Even fucking Cell selfishly violated the gods taboo of time traveling in order to attain his so called perfection and other characters did that too. Boo also killed numerous beings across the universe for millions of years and nearly killed all the Kaioshins. Watagash infected many evil beings and causing destruction of many civilizations according to Jaco. Frost in Universe 6 deceived others into believing his supposed heroicness and secretly caused wars and ended them, thus causing many lives to be lost in the process. DB does show a plethora of mortals that are prone to repeat the cycle of violence. It's true that that isn't the only things mortals are capable of, but in Zamasu's case, it's generalizing. So don't act like Zamasu came to hate mortals and got 'pushed over the edge" because of just seeing random Barbarians killing each other. Hell, even the show acknowledges Zamasu's flawed hatred.

The point that he shows no disgust in sharing a body of a mortal is indeed a misstep in his character, if he seeked power and an effective body, which we know he did, he should've switched bodies with Beerus or any other god... which would made more sense since he loves his godlihood.

Except the point was that he saw something in Goku that he deems greater than the gods. The fact that a mere mortal was able to reach godhood, rival gods, and can potentially become a Hakaishin himself and is disgusting casual towards other gods was what made Zamasu all the more interested in Goku and his potential.

Ever since Zamasu inhabited Goku's body, alterations were made such as Goku Black lean appearance akin to Zamasu's lean physique and Black's dark aura that's similar to Zamasu's. So why is it hard to grasp the fact that his transformation is different than Goku's?

But is this specifically stated in the anime? If not it''s your headcanon filling the questions we have which isn't good enough.

Except that not everything needs to be spoon-fed to us audience when it is already made so painfully obvious why this is the case.

He was nowhere near their level until SSJI (Ikari). Sure SSJ2 Trunks was able to kick SSJR Black (who was off guard btw) and land some good hits on Future Zamasu (who didn't take Trunks very seriously since he was immortal and wanted to show that that Trunks and his attempts were hopeless against him), but that's about it. And he unlocked SSJI through the anguish of learning how he was the one that doomed his people and loved ones.

You do know that the biggest criticizim this arc had was the fuckery of power scalling? Fights looked cool but looking from a critical point of view, it made no sense at all... watch it again with that mindset.

You didn't really attempt to counter what I said, all you did was state that powerscaling was the arc's biggest criticism which is something I already fucking know.

There were only a few lines of that and "justice of gods" refers to his own justice considering how he always proclaimed himself and other self to be the Supreme God needed.

The anime failed in showing that... so was that really what he meant or am i speaking the truth, extactly...

It was made pretty obvious that what he meant by "justice of the gods" was his and other self's sense of justice considering his overblown and exaggerated narcissism. I don't think it can be made anymore obvious than this.

No it isnt entertaining, using the same dialogue over and over again makes a character boring, rahter they could've filled the void of other grey areas of his character, what he thought of good mortals or when he exactly came to think like that etc etc..

Except it's his exaggerated narcissism that makes him stand out as a character and really entertaining. Even to the point where his only comrade and partner in crime is literally his other self from another timeline and even hugging his other self.

[Kanassa]

That shouldn't even happen why is his kamehameha piercing through his strongest attack, while Vegeta and Trunks both using all their strength couldn't? That was also one of the CRITICIZIM people had, he screams full power which is strong enough to pierce through his attack and hit Zamasu and you can clearly see him fighting back unlike the previous ep where he was really off guard enabling Trunks and Vegeta pushing back his death ball or whatever it's called. Not only that it f''ked up his body, while Vegeta and Trunks weren't able to.... and then to make matters even worse Gokus goes at him and fucks him up shouldn't merged Zamasu be too strong to the point Goku's kicks and punches, they should not have any effect on merged Zamasu.

It's simple. Vegeta and Trunks's attack combined cover a larger surface area, so their attack covered most of Zamasu's attack; couple that with the fact that Zamasu wasn't really taking them seriously then and of course the beam pushed the ball back instead of piercing it. In Goku's case, there were two factors, his kamehameha covered a smaller surface area, as well as the added bonus of Zamasu applying much more pressure on his end. It's the different between pushing a block near the same width of an object into said object, and pushing a needle into it. And again, Zamasu is caught by surprised (Look at his expression the moment the Kamehameha pierces the attack).

And then Goku goes to attack Zamasu... Only to be easily caught, until he whips out a move Zamasu has never seen him use. Once again, catching him off guard and delivering a major blow.

His immortaly or half-immortal body isn't how immortality works... that's the whole point.

How do you know that? This is form of immortality not seen in Dragon Ball (In this continuity) before hand, subjected to factors we've never seen interact with immortal characters beforehand.

Plenty of character? Where show me, most of the time we see him saying the same shit over and over again, how is this ,"plenty of character"?

His character is that of a well intentioned old man who just wanted to do right by his position and student, yet ends the arc bearing the weight of his student's sin. He's optimistic of Mortals and, while he disagrees strongly with Zamasu, he never tries to force his views on the boy. He's obviously fond of Zamasu, is shocked to hear of Zamasu's deeds, but is still completely willing to do all he can to correct them as he partly shares the guilt of them. As well as having his wonderful moments of goofiness, ranging from joking about the patora's with Zamasu, to his obsession with tea, to wanting to become a God Tuber. He's a wonderfully tragic character, who only wanted to do his job and drink his damn tea.

We don't know that, what does it mean to be erased and was that specifically stated?

Beerus makes it a point that a God killing another God is an entirely more 'complete' matter than a mortal or god killing another God or Mortal (Which leads him to theorise that the effects of erasing another God could spread across time), as well as every other reference to a GoD's Hakai ability, describing it as erasing more than just the body.

As the members of Kanzenshuu podcast said durning their review of this arc, these characters, none of them, even take Zamasu serious nor do they even listen to him or them, the only dialogue you here is, "don't underestimate mortals". Other than that they do a shitty job in what you're claiming.

So, they do exactly what I said the show was doing? That's the point. Zamasu's madness is so deep, his self-righteous nature so strong that he can't see the irony of his actions, which the show constantly pokes fun at; because it's doing it on purpose. Vegeta points out the hipocrasy. Even BLACK makes fun of Zamasu for this. Trunks and Mai point out the flaws of his 'justice'. And Vegitto makes jabs at Merged Zaasu around the subject for his whole fight. Fuck, if that's not enough there's a whole scene dedicated to GOWASU EXPLAINING IT ALL to Goku and Co.

[Asura]

Why do you guys watch Super if you dislike more than half the show then? If you don't count the movie adaptions and don't like the Zamasu arc...what's left? A just ok to mediocre Champa tournament, tons of fillers/slice of life episodes and an upcoming tournament that didn't even start yet? I mean there's literally nothing else besides the slice of life episodes.

Because we love the characters and the world it created.
But I'll admit I've gone from following it religiously to catching it days or even a week later. I'm waiting to see how this arc pans out, but even if it's amazing I may still drop it anyway as I'm just not a fan of the general direction. I've even been posting on here a lot less as I'm not watching or as invested in the show. The slice of life episodes where Goku doesn't act like a complete idiot are magnificent though and I would pop in occasionally just to watch those in the future.

I fully agree with this. We watch the show because we hope it'll get better. We don't watch it just so we can come here and talk about how much we hate it because we're just evil people that want to see the show fail or something.

I agree with you too though about following it religiously to catching it days/weeks later. The Gohan vs Goku episode got me pumped to watch it every week on Crunchyroll again, but before that I was losing interest quickly. If this arc goes down the shitter, which I'm hopeful that it doesn't given what we've seen so far (but hey I was hopeful that the Future Trunks arc was going to be the most amazing thing ever with the return of Vegito but I don't even have a word to describe how badly that backfired) then I'll probably just drop the show as well and go back to what I was doing before on very late Saturday nights, which was to get intoxicated and watch old school DB and Z episodes.

I also disliked the general direction that Super has been headed in for awhile. Before the Universal Survival Arc, the show felt like it had no passion. No reason for even existing aside from making money. It didn't feel like the writers, animators, artists, etc. were giving it their all. It's better now for sure, but to me Super still feels like a bad fanfiction cash cow. I view it as entertaining for a fanfiction, but certainly not a respectable continuation of the franchise.

[HeroR]

That's all fine but we saw how it constantly backfired them or them making no progression, they had to introduce bs transformation or messing up with the power scalling to progress the story. We could''ve seen more interesting screem time with these humans.

How did it backfired on them. If they didn't act, Goku, Vegeta, and Trunks would have died after their first encounter with Black. Even before then, if they did nothing Trunks would have died to Black a long time ago. And what does Trunks getting a new form have to do with the humans being more useful?

[Kanassa]

Except the point was that he saw something in Goku that he deems greater than the gods. The fact that a mere mortal was able to reach godhood, rival gods, and can potentially become a Hakaishin himself and is disgusting casual towards other gods was what made Zamasu all the more interested in Goku and his potential.

Let's also not forget that, as Zamasu tells Goku himself, Goku is what he perceives as the face of the mortal scourge, and thus found it fitting that it be with this body that the mortals were to be purged.

[Misirius]

The manga and anime are two different things.... just because the manga fixes the problems does not mean the anime gets a free pass...

That's why I've started enjoying the anime lesser and lesser after each episode. While enjoying the manga more and more as I read forward.

Now go tell what you think to the DBZ Subreddit. Jeez the manga haters are real there.

[Shuby]

It's simple. Vegeta and Trunks's attack combined cover a larger surface area, so their attack covered most of Zamasu's attack; couple that with the fact that Zamasu wasn't really taking them seriously then and of course the beam pushed the ball back instead of piercing it. In Goku's case, there were two factors, his kamehameha covered a smaller surface area, as well as the added bonus of Zamasu applying much more pressure on his end. It's the different between pushing a block near the same width of an object into said object, and pushing a needle into it. And again, Zamasu is caught by surprised (Look at his expression the moment the Kamehameha pierces the attack).

this explanation is just a big headcanon with the surface thing... Zamasu caught off guard with Vegeta and Trunks yes, but in Goku'' case they were both "pushing", yet somewhow and not by this surface shit you're talking about but more because it''s Goku and he had to win the beam battle, Goku won! Remember how big Vegeta''s Big Bang attack was directed at Cell? So it should've been smaller to have a better or effective impact or Gohan's kamehameha against perfect Cell should've been more denser rather than being it bigger as we saw which overwhelmed his kamehameha? Even if in both cases Zamasu was caught off guard, the fact that Vegeta and Trunks kamehameha wasn't even effective as Goku's makes no sense at all.

And then Goku goes to attack Zamasu... Only to be easily caught, until he whips out a move Zamasu has never seen him use. Once again, catching him off guard and delivering a major blow.

How many times is he gonna caught off guard now? You''re just replying with your made up headcanons, until it isnt explained it is your headcanon. Even if he is distracted, a fushed body should withstand that many blows from a weaker opponent which we have seen time and time again... You can't really call if off guard when you''re struggling as you''re fully focused which wasn't the case at all wit Trunks and Vegeta really... even worse his kamehameha damages Zamasu while earlier the gallic gun did absolutely nothing.

So, they do exactly what I said the show was doing? That's the point. Zamasu's madness is so deep, his self-righteous nature so strong that he can't see the irony of his actions, which the show constantly pokes fun at; because it's doing it on purpose. Vegeta points out the hipocrasy. Even BLACK makes fun of Zamasu for this. Trunks and Mai point out the flaws of his 'justice'. And Vegitto makes jabs at Merged Zaasu around the subject for his whole fight. Fuck, if that's not enough there's a whole scene dedicated to GOWASU EXPLAINING IT ALL to Goku and Co.

It's more flaw in his character rather then the irony, yes he is self-centered individual but that doesn't mean whatever he is saying makes sense of that his character isn't flawed that is the point. Zamasu is saying that shit? But he is doing it as well.. well that's pretty boring, imagine if he realized his hypocrisy, it would''ve made for a more interesting and complex villain yet it all remains surface level .

There are numerous mortals shown to repeat this cycle of harming each other so it's pretty hard to pinpoint where Zamasu's hatred for mortals started. A mad scientist created a much of robots/Artificial humans (not to mention kidnapped teenagers and forcefully add cybernetic adjustments to their being) to kill Goku because his precious army was defeated which lead to entire populations of Earth being destroyed and those same artificial humans turned their backs on Gero to kill him and massacre the Earth in order to quench their satisfaction. Even fucking Cell selfishly violated the gods taboo of time traveling in order to attain his so called perfection and other characters did that too. Boo also killed numerous beings across the universe for millions of years and nearly killed all the Kaioshins. Watagash infected many evil beings and causing destruction of many civilizations according to Jaco. Frost in Universe 6 deceived others into believing his supposed heroicness and secretly caused wars and ended them, thus causing many lives to be lost in the process. DB does show a plethora of mortals that are prone to repeat the cycle of violence. It's true that that isn't the only things mortals are capable of, but in Zamasu's case, it's generalizing. So don't act like Zamasu came to hate mortals and got 'pushed over the edge" because of just seeing random Barbarians killing each other. Hell, even the show acknowledges Zamasu's flawed hatred.

Which gets back to my point, you''re pointing out the evil done in the universe but what about the good deeds and human beings dealing with such things? Did he overlook that watching mortals from centuries? Or did he just not wanna deal with it? Or was it that he didn't care about that aspect? It's those questions that arises.. so all we see is him being midway and his hatred for the barbarians fuelling those questions[/quote]

Except the point was that he saw something in Goku that he deems greater than the gods. The fact that a mere mortal was able to reach godhood, rival gods, and can potentially become a Hakaishin himself and is disgusting casual towards other gods was what made Zamasu all the more interested in Goku and his potential.

That wasn't even the point, the point was that even though he was interested in his body, the mere fact that he never showed disgust in having to do so even for his own sake while he hated mortals for centuries is a missed opportunity in his character. It's like ooh mortal , you are interesting, let's switch whatever. instead of i hate doing this to myself but he caught my attention which makes me hate mortals and gods even more in doing so.

Except that not everything needs to be spoon-fed to us audience when it is already made so painfully obvious why this is the case.

All we know is that Zamasu has his ki, but how does that ki come into play? Where and how did he learn to use the super saiyan transformation in the first place and how did he come to the conclusion of how to reach this SSJ Pink transformation? This has nothing to do with spoon-feeding but providing essential questions even dating back to how SSB works and how Vegeta achieved it

You didn't really attempt to counter what I said, all you did was state that powerscaling was the arc's biggest criticism which is something I already fucking know.

Because that was also the fucking point? Especially since the Black arc and overall really in the manga is more consistent with the fights and power scalling... which is hard to watch, i guess this guy explains it better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaYjoaXjvv0 watch 5:30

Except it's his exaggerated narcissism that makes him stand out as a character and really entertaining. Even to the point where his only comrade and partner in crime is literally his other self from another timeline and even hugging his other self.

That exaggerated narcissim is pretty much all we see from him which could be interesting in the beginning but starts to feel boring after a while... that isn't anything entertaining, unlike what i said what could have made this character more dynamic which would result into being more entertaining to watch him

[Kanassa]

this explanation is just a big headcanon with the surface thing... Zamasu caught off guard with Vegeta and Trunks yes, but in Goku'' case they were both "pushing", yet somewhow and not by this surface shit you're talking about but more because it''s Goku and he had to win the beam battle, Goku won!

It's not really head cannon when it's a logical way of how the scene works. If someone pushes a glass over, it's not a head-cannon to say that the glass fell because their hand pushed against it.Of course they were both pushing, piercing won't happen if there's no pressure or resistance from the side that goes through the other.

How many times is he gonna caught off guard now? You''re just replying with your made up headcanons, until it isnt explained it is your headcanon. Even if he is distracted, a fushed body should withstand that many blows from a weaker opponent which we have seen time and time again...

Even though it's been constantly noted by Goku, Trunks and Vegito that Zamasu keeps letting his guard down. Even though the show continuously emphasising how effective a surprise attack can be.

You can't really call if off guard when you''re struggling as you''re fully focused which wasn't the case at all wit Trunks and Vegeta really... even worse his kamehameha damages Zamasu while earlier the gallic gun did absolutely nothing.

It doesn't matter how focused you are, if someone pulls out a trump card that you didn't expect, you're going to be caught off guard. And Super barely ever shows a lot of damage (Which is a problem), so it's asinine to assume that the Galick Gun had no effect.

It's more flaw in his character rather then the irony, yes he is self-centered individual but that doesn't mean whatever he is saying makes sense of that his character isn't flawed that is the point. Zamasu is saying that shit? But he is doing it as well.. well that's pretty boring, imagine if he realized his hypocrisy, it would''ve made for a more interesting and complex villain yet it all remains surface level

If he realised his hypocrisy he wouldn't be as entertaining a villain. A lot of the entertainment value of Zamasu is in how blatantly ego-centric, insane and hammy he is as well as the poetic irony of his defeat.

[Master Xar]

Most of this seems to be quite subjective and opinionated, very little to do with the arc in most points and mostly just whining about how certain characters were used and lack of understanding why and how they were used. Kanassa and Freeza9000 above already listed most of the points are coming from a lack of understanding the characters, the plot, and just the arc's meaning overall, you have some points like why didn't Zamasu use the Dragonballs, but for the most part there are the same problems that plague Z, character stupidity/arrogance, lack of common sense/logic in the characters or flaws, powerscaling issues, Yada, Yada... i'm not going to make excuses for the arc and it does have it's flaws, but objectively it does not "suck ass" not that this review was being all that objective to begin with

Instead of saying all of this is boring you could've countered my arguments....

that was the response, what can i say in reply that hasn't already been said, most of your points come from personal opinion, so no this isn't a "critical lens" for the most part it's just sour grapes and "meh i wanted dis" or "i want dat" i'm not gonna waste my time countering ignorant points so bye

[Freeza9000]

Which gets back to my point, you''re pointing out the evil done in the universe but what about the good deeds and human beings dealing with such things? Did he overlook that watching mortals from centuries? Or did he just not wanna deal with it? Or was it that he didn't care about that aspect? It's those questions that arises.. so all we see is him being midway and his hatred for the barbarians fuelling those questions

He descended into madness which was so deep that he didn't even care for the good mortals which was evident when he wrecks Trunks's future and taunts Trunks who was grieving over Mai's supposed death. As a matter of fact, he looked too much on the evil side of humanity and was influenced heavily by it to the point where he even wants to kill mortals that aren't remotely bad.

That wasn't even the point, the point was that even though he was interested in his body, the mere fact that he never showed disgust in having to do so even for his own sake while he hated mortals for centuries is a missed opportunity in his character. It's like ooh mortal , you are interesting, let's switch whatever. instead of i hate doing this to myself but he caught my attention which makes me hate mortals and gods even more in doing so

Why should he show disgust? It's not like he thought that he became a mortal himself anyway. He was still a god except in a more efficient body that increases in strength and reaches great heights in power constantly in battle. As a matter of fact, he actually thought that he himself gave Goku more of a reputation by putting him at the height of beauty (EP 56).

All we know is that Zamasu has his ki, but how does that ki come into play? Where and how did he learn to use the super saiyan transformation in the first place and how did he come to the conclusion of how to reach this SSJ Pink transformation? This has nothing to do with spoon-feeding but providing essential questions even dating back to how SSB works and how Vegeta achieved it

He learned all that shit in his battle with Goku in the present? The show even shows Black constantly adapting and learning all about Goku in his body unless you are purposely ignoring all of that. Ever since Zamasu entered Goku's body, alterations occurred such as his aura, ki, physique, etc. It's so obvious that I don't know why it should be a headcanon.

Because that was also the fucking point? Especially since the Black arc and overall really in the manga is more consistent with the fights and power scalling... which is hard to watch, i guess this guy explains it better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaYjoaXjvv0 watch 5:30

Trunks wasn't even a match for Zamasu. Zamasu didn't even take Trunks remotely seriously since he is literally immortal and allowed himself to be stabbed and attacked to show how Trunks's attacks were hopeless against him and wanted Trunks to be aware of his state of powerlessness. He basically wanted to destroy all the hope and confidence Trunks had in him

That exaggerated narcissim is pretty much all we see from him which could be interesting in the beginning but starts to feel boring after a while... that isn't anything entertaining, unlike what i said what could have made this character more dynamic which would result into being more entertaining to watch him

There's more to his character than just that. Such as his disturbing admiration for Goku when he steals his body even to the point where he's even influenced by his body's impulses and inherits Goku's lust for reaching greater heights.