The Future Trunks Arc Under a Critical Lens

[Shuby]

Zamasu's character is terrible

Apparently for all the years he's been watching humanity or lives/creatures. The only conclusion he could come to
is that mortals are worth killing. Stupid and unreasonable. How in the f''k do you watch life from thousands of years apparently or heck even hundrends of years.
How does one continue to watch life from x amount of years and only come to the conclusion is that mortals are destructive? Has he never noticed the capacity of good?
Or did human emotions mean nothing to him? like in u6 they have the nobel peace prize or when Black arrived and saw humans working together to build their civilization.
You'd think that would mean something. So yeah his reasons for hating mortals is quite baseless if not weak. And Especially he starts to hate mortals when he came in contact
with the barbarians, of course one would come to conclusion that they are violent, they were primitive creatues. How can someone base their hatred for mortals of a race that is
primitive as f''k. So you hate mortals because they have the capacity for violence or strength(Goku's case) but Zamasu himself was a fighting prodigy...Really? So his reasons for
hating mortals doesn't make much sense. Secondly, he keeps refering as what he is doing as "the justice and will of the gods". Yet he ends up killing all the gods that he refers to.
Obviously at that time he did not respect the gods but the point is he shouldn't be refering in what he is doing as the justice and will of the gods. He keeps using that same phrase
over and over again. It's like i hate the American armly for whatever reason and kill all of them then i start killing terrorists and say i do it in the name of the American army, it doesnt
make sense at all. It's just you can't convince me that you were watching mortals for centuries and all you saw was violence and them fighting each other. Like in the past or sometimes even now
humans do a shit job messing up earth but lots of humans put effort in saving earth or animals, climate change, etc. Another misstep in his character is Zamasu wanting and having a mortal body
named Goku. If you were a racist and let's say hated a particular race, would you wish to become that race? Or like a jew who hated nazi's somehow joined them. This is not your typical Toriyama irony.
Typical Toriyama irony is small characters being strong, strong looking characters being weak for example. So he's shit for these reasons. Also his dialogue is terrible all he says is how much he hates
ninegans and i love my kami-self. It's not the only the motivation of that of a villain that matters but also it's execution. Every villain in fiction does things because he feels like it. Because he
wants to do it. Zamasu isn't any different. It motives are different, even though it's flawed but it's different, but the end goal killing beings is not different. So yeah f'ck Zamasu.
How does Zamasu get so strong off of immortality? Immortality doesn't mean one doesn't have the ability to feel pain, nor does it give someone the ability to match SSjB in combat...then Trunks says something about regeneration not being able to keep up? That isn't how one beats immortality, by that logic Buu has a much better body...
Why is SSj Rose a thing? Why is the hair pink? I think it looks cool but why does it exist?
How is Trunks faring well against Zamasu and Black, when he's nowhere near their level? ooh and also
Zamasu knows that other timelines exist too, so what is stopping you from killing those mortals in his timeline? It would've been so cool if he had to realize the sheer magnitude of the number of different timelines there are

-Goku Black's "identity" shouldn't be a mystery if its Zamasu all along; what the fuck is the point? Everyone was guessing Zamasu and it was a horrible "reveal".
-How does Zamasu know Goku in the timeline in which he became Goku Black if Future Trunks coming back to the past is what spurred him to meet Goku in the first place?
-They have no response for Vegeta when he asks what their utopia is about: why wouldn't Vegeta understand (not agree with) a world that is being built for new gods?
-Trunks powerup into SSj stage 3 with blue ki highlights is cool but makes no sense, and once again, he's all of a sudden so strong to challenge Black and Zamasu even holding on his own for a while; No explanation for it, of course.
-Black and Zamasu know Trunks time traveled, yet Black was surprised that he saw the time machine when he first fought Goku...
-WHY THE FUCK DOESN'T ZAMASU WISH FOR ALL MORTALS TO BE KILLED WHEN HE GATHERS THE SUPER DRAGON BALLS?!
HE COULD KILL THE GODS BY KILLING ALL THE KAIOSHIN AND THEN USING IT. DON'T GIVE ME THAT THERE WILL BE NO PLOT EXCUSE, ITS FUCKING SLOPPY WRITING.
-Some people say that Zamasu didn't do it because he relished killing mortals but the reason that is bullshit is because he's carrying out his Zero mortals plan in the future, where humans are scarce.
-There is no excuse for him not doing it in the present, where killing the Kaioshin without the knowledge of the GoDs would be no problem.
-How the fuck did Trunks escape Black and Zamasu when he served as a shield for Goku, Vegeta and Bulma to return to the past?
-Mai tries to snipe Black, I'm actually dying....AND SHE MISSED?! LMFAOOOOOOOOO. What the fuck is an energy bullet? You just saw Goku, Vegeta and Trunks fail, and you think a fucking bullet is going to work?
-How does Vegeta get stronger than Black in a year's time when he couldn't do the same against Cell? Not only that but earlier in the Universe 6 arc he said that using the Time Chamber would do nothing because they were at
their limits, yet here he easily surpasses that?
-LOL why is there some long winded dialog about how "anger is power" when Black makes his scythe?
-Holy shit, Toei has lost it: he creates a rift and has no idea what the fuck happened. Then Toei tries to play this off with some dialog about how what he's staring at could be the future or the past, what the fuck are they talking about?
LOOOL what is this smoke clone shit, this is so wack.
-Goku forgets the talisman, zentsu-bean? Way to go Toei.
-Zamasu and Black fuse while he is still a SSj Rose, something which Old Kai said NOT to do when Goku asked; the design is absolutely bland too
-Wait, so his plan was to create a new world for gods, yet he killed gods?
-How tf are SSjB's able to resist the Lightning of Absolution
-Why is Goku doing better than both Trunks and Vegeta did durning the energy wave struggle against merged Zamasu?
--How is Zamasu not in any pain when Vegetto impales him with the beam sword, when it was said in this very same episode that he doesn't have his immortality anymore?
- How is Mai still alive? How is she as young as she is? She needed to turn into a kid when Piccolo was still alive, no Piccolo= no dragon balls
from a thieve to a leader in a group to defend earth.. where did that transition happen? F''k the Pilaf gang, they were essentially a waste of space
not funny or interesting.

Trunks has no problem going to a different timeline after Zeno destroys his own...are you serious? Are you just going to shit on his entire character like that? That Hope!! on his time machine has no meaning now. The meaning of his journey in the Androids arc is compltely nullified now. People who just helped him defeat Zamasu on some bullshit, all just died..., but at the expense of fucking the meaning of Trunks's character up? Naaaaah. And you know, given the whole strict rules about time travel and all that...this might be the last time we see Future Trunks. Yep, Future Trunks goes off to a new future where his entire character is written off.
Why did no one try and get the Namekians and use their Dragon Balls to revive Earth?! Why not just stay in this fucking timeline.........

[Zamasu55]

- You're right.
- This makes no sense in the anime, but in the manga yes, it absolutely does. Zamasu never met Goku, he only watched his fight with Hit on Godtube.
- You're right.
- You're right.
- The manga fixed this as well, Black Goku never went to the past. He doesn't even wear a time ring.
- Because he wanted to do it himself. This is easy.
- You're right.
- Beerus wasn't sleeping in the future when he became Black.
- Because his new form isn't that weaker than them. Which is bullshit.
- That was a desperate attack, come on.
- You're right. This is Super, where Beerus goes from being only 40% stronger than SsjG Goku to being more powerful than SsjB Vegito. In the anime, of course.
- No clue.
- You're right.
- In the anime, it's Roshi who forgets to give Goku the talisman.
- You're right.
- He killed them because they wouldn't have agreed with his plans, he said this to Gowasu.
- No clue.
- Because power levels don't make sense.
- He's half immortal.
- You're right.

[Akyon]

.
- In the anime, it's Roshi who forgets to give Goku the talisman.

I swear Roshi said he was specifically going inside the house to make the Talisman, then Goku leaves before it's ready.

[Cipher]

That Hope!! on his time machine has no meaning now. The meaning of his journey in the Androids arc is compltely nullified now.

Under a more critical lens, that journey now has far greater meaning than it ever did in the original run because the arc posits that the worthiness of Trunks' actions is inherent, rather than dependent upon a series of favorable outcomes outside of his control as in the Cell arc. What he does is valuable for the lives he touches, personal happy ending or not. It's the first time, in fact, the series ever dares leave its audience with such a lesson.

Trunks' time travel is one of the elements that allows Zamasu to carry out his plans, which both Black and Future Zamasu taunt him with, but in the face of their (largely unfair, but somewhat accurate) accusations, Trunks stands up for the morality of his actions regardless of how they've chosen to use the world he created. Once his timeline is erased, at his lowest ebb of self-confidence, in which he's bemoaning his inability to save the world his Gohan entrusted him with, he's seen off by a version of Gohan who, thanks to his actions, has gotten to live the life his couldn't. He's seen off by Vegeta, by Goku, by Bulma—all people who can and should be dead, but are alive and thriving thanks to him. The goodness and optimism of his actions, imperfect a solution as they may offer, carry over into his and Mai's decision to introduce the same cosmic second chance to the friends they knew in their future. The "Hope!!" on the side of that time machine has never meant more than when it's presented as a shorthand for all imperfect, inconvenient ways of doing what good one can.

The arc is a rocky, rocky thing, as executed in the anime, but its ending is among the more worthwhile bits of the entire meta-series. On the whole, and especially through its finale, the arc manages to take Trunks, who exists more or less a plot device and catalyst for action in the original run, and turn him into a poignant character all his own.

If anything, my stance on the storyline is that it's a great ending in want of a substantially better arc.

[precita]

That OP post is one long tl/dr, but I'll just say I enjoyed the Zamasu arc and it's (so far) Super's best arc. It has it's flaws, yes, but it doesn't bother me.

[SaiyanGod117]

The first half of the arc was decent I guess, the 57th episode is the Turing point when the arc turned to flash, but no substance. There was also way too much Pilaf gang.

[GodKaio-Ken]

.
- In the anime, it's Roshi who forgets to give Goku the talisman.

I swear Roshi said he was specifically going inside the house to make the Talisman, then Goku leaves before it's ready.

Nope. Goku leaves and then Roshi comes running outside saying he forgot the talisman. He doesnt say anything about the talisman to that point to my recollection.

[dragon boss z]

- How is Mai still alive? How is she as young as she is? She needed to turn into a kid when Piccolo was still alive, no Piccolo= no dragon balls

Toyotaro had a special manga chapter showing that the pilaf gang became babies during the 3 year training period for the androids. So piccolo was alive then.

[dbgtFO]

.
- In the anime, it's Roshi who forgets to give Goku the talisman.

I swear Roshi said he was specifically going inside the house to make the Talisman, then Goku leaves before it's ready.

Nope. Goku leaves and then Roshi comes running outside saying he forgot the talisman. He doesnt say anything about the talisman to that point to my recollection.

It goes like this, at the end of episode 62, after Goku has finished practicing the Mafuba, Roshi goes inside, telling Goku he'll make a talisman. Then in the beginning of episode 63, Roshi and Goku part ways with the viewer naturally assuming, that Goku was given everything he needed to make the Mafuba work, only to find out in episode 64, that Roshi hadn't given him the talisman.
So yeah, while Roshi said Goku forgot, it was as much Roshi's fault.

[GodKaio-Ken]

I swear Roshi said he was specifically going inside the house to make the Talisman, then Goku leaves before it's ready.

Nope. Goku leaves and then Roshi comes running outside saying he forgot the talisman. He doesnt say anything about the talisman to that point to my recollection.

It goes like this, at the end of episode 62, after Goku has finished practicing the Mafuba, Roshi goes inside, telling Goku he'll make a talisman. Then in the beginning of episode 63, Roshi and Goku part ways with the viewer naturally assuming, that Goku was given everything he needed to make the Mafuba work, only to find out in episode 64, that Roshi hadn't given him the talisman.
So yeah, while Roshi said Goku forgot, it was as much Roshi's fault.

Ah see it was split into two episodes. Thats why we were all confused.

Id blame Roshi...I mean why would you not give it to him as soon as it was complete?

[Asura]

I fully agree with you, but be aware of the onslaught of posts that will probably come making up the craziest and wackiest of excuses to try and defend some of those problems you listed.

[emperior]

That Hope!! on his time machine has no meaning now. The meaning of his journey in the Androids arc is compltely nullified now.

Under a more critical lens, that journey now has far greater meaning than it ever did in the original run because the arc posits that the worthiness of Trunks' actions is inherent, rather than dependent upon a series of favorable outcomes outside of his control as in the Cell arc. What he does is valuable for the lives he touches, personal happy ending or not. It's the first time, in fact, the series ever dares leave its audience with such a lesson.

Trunks' time travel is one of the elements that allows Zamasu to carry out his plans, which both Black and Future Zamasu taunt him with, but in the face of their (largely unfair, but somewhat accurate) accusations, Trunks stands up for the morality of his actions regardless of how they've chosen to use the world he created. Once his timeline is erased, at his lowest ebb of self-confidence, in which he's bemoaning his inability to save the world his Gohan entrusted him with, he's seen off by a version of Gohan who, thanks to his actions, has gotten to live the life his couldn't. He's seen off by Vegeta, by Goku, by Bulma—all people who can and should be dead, but are alive and thriving thanks to him. The goodness and optimism of his actions, imperfect a solution as they may offer, carry over into his and Mai's decision to introduce the same cosmic second chance to the friends they knew in their future. The "Hope!!" on the side of that time machine has never meant more than when it's presented as a shorthand for all imperfect, inconvenient ways of doing what good one can.

The arc is a rocky, rocky thing, as executed in the anime, but its ending is among the more worthwhile bits of the entire meta-series. On the whole, and especially through its finale, the arc manages to take Trunks, who exists more or less a plot device and catalyst for action in the original run, and turn him into a poignant character all his own.

If anything, my stance on the storyline is that it's a great ending in want of a substantially better arc.

What a awesome post.
I completely agree with you. For me Trunks represent "Hope" much more than before, and in a very realistic way.

[Shinda Forever]

Zamasu arc it sucked big time , because, we only had saiyajins in the cast to fight evil and Zamasu had no minions to back him up, furthermore, the fights didn't make any sense and they didn't explore the fact that other gods could follow Zamasu, because, they would be afraid of him and that way we could have a z team like now fighting against several opponents. The main problem is that they are always struggling with the animation and that makes impossible for db super to be truly enjoyable, the battles are always too short except against the trio of dangers where they did a decent job.

[perucho1990]

If Black in the anime had the same personality as in the manga then the arc wouldve been a complete fail, and maybe on par with GT Arcs.

Black is one of the main reasons the arc wasnt a complete fail in all aspects, besides Miki performance as Zamasu.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

I fully agree with you, but be aware of the onslaught of posts that will probably come making up the craziest and wackiest of excuses to try and defend some of those problems you listed.

Isn't that what a discussion is all about? Making counter-arguments for every (positive/negative) argument? If not, that would be circle-jerking.

[precita]

Zamasu arc it sucked big time , because, we only had saiyajins in the cast to fight evil and Zamasu had no minions to back him up,

Why on earth did Zamasu need minions? Zamasu having minions would make zero sense when he's trying to eradicate all life. And while I would have liked more than Goku/Vegeta/Trunks being in that arc, it's not a big deal.

furthermore, the fights didn't make any sense and they didn't explore the fact that other gods could follow Zamasu, because, they would be afraid of him and that way we could have a z team like now fighting against several opponents. The main problem is that they are always struggling with the animation and that makes impossible for db super to be truly enjoyable, the battles are always too short except against the trio of dangers where they did a decent job.

Most of the fights made sense outside of Trunks getting powered up by the end.

[Zagacious]

I fully agree with you, but be aware of the onslaught of posts that will probably come making up the craziest and wackiest of excuses to try and defend some of those problems you listed.

Isn't that what a discussion is all about? Making counter-arguments for every (positive/negative) argument? If not, that would be circle-jerking.

Well, the arguments defending super in general are very poor and are more like excuses than actual arguments, usually comes to one of these bs reasoning:

1. The episode was poor and nothing of consequence happened, but 'built character' just because a random character was in it, even though we didn't actually learn anything about said character, so it's okay
2. DBZ was worse in some way, so any amount of bs inconsistency in DBS is acceptable
3. Claiming the unnecessary padding/stretching out of episodes never happened, and acting like the episode actually had a meaning. (I see this all the time people trying to deny Pilaf was in like half of the Black Goku arc whenever someone complains about it). Well when you can skip half of the Black Goku arc without missing anything there's something wrong there

[Boo Machine]

Well, the arguments defending super in general are very poor and are more like excuses than actual arguments, usually comes to one of these bs reasoning:

1. The episode was poor and nothing of consequence happened, but 'built character' just because a random character was in it, even though we didn't actually learn anything about said character, so it's okay
2. DBZ was worse in some way, so any amount of bs inconsistency in DBS is acceptable
3. Claiming the unnecessary padding/stretching out of episodes never happened, and acting like the episode actually had a meaning. (I see this all the time people trying to deny Pilaf was in like half of the Black Goku arc whenever someone complains about it). Well when you can skip half of the Black Goku arc without missing anything there's something wrong there

Regardless about how you feel about certain "excuses", the point is that a discussion takes two parties having a conversation about their point of views. Which cant happen if one side is brushing everything the other side is saying off as the whacky ramblings of a mad man,if they happen to not see things that way. It's just about treating the people you're speaking with, with respect.

[perucho1990]

Well, the arguments defending super in general are very poor and are more like excuses than actual arguments, usually comes to one of these bs reasoning:

1. The episode was poor and nothing of consequence happened, but 'built character' just because a random character was in it, even though we didn't actually learn anything about said character, so it's okay
2. DBZ was worse in some way, so any amount of bs inconsistency in DBS is acceptable
3. Claiming the unnecessary padding/stretching out of episodes never happened, and acting like the episode actually had a meaning. (I see this all the time people trying to deny Pilaf was in like half of the Black Goku arc whenever someone complains about it). Well when you can skip half of the Black Goku arc without missing anything there's something wrong there

I agree about the Pilaf Gang stuff dragging the arc down, looks like they learned their lesson and the Pilaf gang screen time has reduced drastically to total of 1-2 mins in the ToP arc.

The "filler" centered on the other Universes is so much better.

[Dbzfan94]

If Black in the anime had the same personality as in the manga then the arc wouldve been a complete fail, and maybe on par with GT Arcs.

Black is one of the main reasons the arc wasnt a complete fail in all aspects, besides Miki performance as Zamasu.

Definitely agree here. Anime Black was the only good part about the arc imo.