Master Roshi Targeted in BPO Published Complaint

[Kanassa]

I know Muten Roshi was a perv but his gags were harmless during its original run. But his portrayal in episodes 89 and 90 were really off and came off almost like a rapist it was uncomfortable to watch.

I still remember the more kid-friendly days, where he groped without consent and even felt up a woman who was beaten unconscious. The days of taste. Now we have him... Chasing a woman around and getting consequences for it.

[VegettoEX]

[Friendly reminder that your sarcastic, dismissive comments won't get you anywhere in a conversation on Kanzenshuu, other than perhaps a trip to the time-out corner. It's a show for kids, but let's not act like kids.]

Independent of the series' historical context, I'm in agreement that the latest hermit stuff seemed... off. The Pu'er stuff in particular was all sorts of weird, and at a minimum really threw off the episode(s).

There is really no discussion to be had about Dragon Ball's intended audience. It has always been a children's comic/show, and it remains a children's comic/show. Generalization here coming from an extremely long time as a part of this fandom, but any arguments to the contrary tend come from people in their very late teens or early 20s coming to terms with the fact that they remain a fan of a children's cartoon, and are looking for any excuse out of that. That the series contains some amount of "different" content doesn't actually change anything.

[OmegaRockman]

Forgive me if my writing isn't great and I don't express my ideas well - I didn't get any sleep last night so I'm running on fumes at the moment.

I feel like the Muten Roshi jokes were off in the Yurin episode for a few reasons. First off, Muten Roshi was actually outright rapey here when in the past he usually went for a pat on the butt or grabbing a boob - he never chased women around trying to get in their pants. That's a line he never crossed in the original series.

Secondly, he didn't get punished for chasing the poor girl around - yes, he was mind controlled later on, but that was a result of the main villain plot rather than a consequence of his actions. Bulma, Lunch, and all the other girls he felt up would always kick his ass for what he did. Even when they didn't kick his ass, he was always punished in some other way such as by being flushed down the toilet when he tried to use Bulma's shrinking device to peek on her in the bathroom. With this in mind, the joke in the original series was never the inappropriate touching itself, but Muten Roshi's punishment for said touching. He did a bad thing and got what he deserved for it. However, that didn't happen with Yurin - she just ran away screaming, and that was the whole joke. I wasn't laughing.

Thirdly, the episode seemed to act like Yurin DESERVED that sort of treatment. Like, since she was the bad guy she deserved to be raped by Kame Sennin. As I said before, the joke here was that Yurin was potentially about to get raped. Why is that supposed to be funny? Maybe the writers felt it was funny because it's humorous when bad guys in shows end up in wacky situations due to their dastardly schemes. It's the Wile E. Coyote effect - he tries to kill the roadrunner with a rock, the rock comes back and smushes him. The Pilaf Gang wishes to be young again, they get turned into kids. Classic cartoon nonsense to teach kids that being bad isn't the way to go. I guess they wanted to do something similar with Yurin, giving her a wacky punishment for trying to deceive Tenshinhan. They decided that wacky punishment should be rape, one of the most traumatic things that can happen to a person. Okay. Not exactly the best call you've ever made, Toei. It's made worse by the fact that Goku and Tenshinhan choose to ignore it rather than tell Kame Sennin to cut it out. They don't even know that Yurin has bad intentions at this point, so for all they know it's an innocent girl that's being harrassed! "But if they help her they'll ruin the joke!" That's the thing, though. There is no joke here. Just an old guy trying to force himself on a young woman who has nobody to help her. But she's the bad guy, so I guess it's okay! Yeah, no.

Hell, the only reason why Muten Roshi doesn't succeed in outright raping her is because her top falls off and his nose-boner-not-blood-but-steam stuff launches him through the wall. Yurin doesn't actually fend Muten Roshi off like Bulma or Lunch and he isn't flushed down the toilet. Instead he's stopped by getting exactly what he wants. It seems they only launched him through the wall because they realized that they can't make a literal rape scene funny, so they settle for an almost rape scene instead. They can't have Yurin actually punch Muten Roshi in the face either because it would look like HE was in the wrong here! And that would ruin Yurin's bad guy schtick! You don't get to not be raped until AFTER you're reformed, missy! Only when you're a good girl will you earn your "Punch Muten Roshi" card! Well, I'm sorry, I don't find it funny. In fact, I find it uncomfortable. And I love Kame Sennin. I don't WANT him to make me feel uncomfortable. But he did, because he did some pretty shitty stuff in this episode.

If this wasn't already clear, I kinda hate this episode. It's almost as bad as Dolltaki in GT for me. At best, this episode trivializes rape. At worst, this episode teaches terrible morals to little boys, telling them that sexual assault is an acceptable punishment for women. Is a girl being mean to you? Just molest the crap outta her! Chase her around the room until you get your way! That'll teach her! Don't worry if she yells and screams and says no, she deserves it! I mean, come on, Toei. Is that the message you want to send? I mean, geez. I think I hate this single episode more than anything in Super. I mean, episode 5 was ugly, and the Resurrection F arc was boring as a whole, but this episode made me feel dirty watching it. Like I felt like I needed to take a shower afterwards. Again, like the Dolltaki stuff in GT.

Oof. That turned into an outright rant. Sorry. Rant over.

[sintzu]

First off, Muten Roshi was actually outright rapey here when in the past he usually went for a pat on the butt or grabbing a boob - he never chased women around trying to get in their pants. That's a line he never crossed in the original series.

This is another example of Super taking one character trait and going too far with it. It's like what they do with Goku in certain episodes, he comes off as being completely...un-intelligent as if all the development he went through never happened.

[Rubens]

I think that whatever joke they were going for just didn't work. The strangest part(s) was Muten Roshi carrying her to a private room, chasing her around and... resisting hits... that's just... He usually created situations to achieve something like a more privileged view (taking Bulma's watch in order to shrink himself so he can hide in the toilet) or dressing up everyone on similar attires to convince the girl wearing something "lesser" (like he did with Lunch), etc., or something simpler as groping. And usually, as mentioned already, with negative consequences for Muten Roshi which felt short in that episode.

[Lord Beerus]

[spoiler]Forgive me if my writing isn't great and I don't express my ideas well - I didn't get any sleep last night so I'm running on fumes at the moment.

I feel like the Muten Roshi jokes were off in the Yurin episode for a few reasons. First off, Muten Roshi was actually outright rapey here when in the past he usually went for a pat on the butt or grabbing a boob - he never chased women around trying to get in their pants. That's a line he never crossed in the original series.

Secondly, he didn't get punished for chasing the poor girl around - yes, he was mind controlled later on, but that was a result of the main villain plot rather than a consequence of his actions. Bulma, Lunch, and all the other girls he felt up would always kick his ass for what he did. Even when they didn't kick his ass, he was always punished in some other way such as by being flushed down the toilet when he tried to use Bulma's shrinking device to peek on her in the bathroom. With this in mind, the joke in the original series was never the inappropriate touching itself, but Muten Roshi's punishment for said touching. He did a bad thing and got what he deserved for it. However, that didn't happen with Yurin - she just ran away screaming, and that was the whole joke. I wasn't laughing.

Thirdly, the episode seemed to act like Yurin DESERVED that sort of treatment. Like, since she was the bad guy she deserved to be raped by Kame Sennin. As I said before, the joke here was that Yurin was potentially about to get raped. Why is that supposed to be funny? Maybe the writers felt it was funny because it's humorous when bad guys in shows end up in wacky situations due to their dastardly schemes. It's the Wile E. Coyote effect - he tries to kill the roadrunner with a rock, the rock comes back and smushes him. The Pilaf Gang wishes to be young again, they get turned into kids. Classic cartoon nonsense to teach kids that being bad isn't the way to go. I guess they wanted to do something similar with Yurin, giving her a wacky punishment for trying to deceive Tenshinhan. They decided that wacky punishment should be rape, one of the most traumatic things that can happen to a person. Okay. Not exactly the best call you've ever made, Toei. It's made worse by the fact that Goku and Tenshinhan choose to ignore it rather than tell Kame Sennin to cut it out. They don't even know that Yurin has bad intentions at this point, so for all they know it's an innocent girl that's being harrassed! "But if they help her they'll ruin the joke!" That's the thing, though. There is no joke here. Just an old guy trying to force himself on a young woman who has nobody to help her. But she's the bad guy, so I guess it's okay! Yeah, no.

Hell, the only reason why Muten Roshi doesn't succeed in outright raping her is because her top falls off and his nose-boner-not-blood-but-steam stuff launches him through the wall. Yurin doesn't actually fend Muten Roshi off like Bulma or Lunch and he isn't flushed down the toilet. Instead he's stopped by getting exactly what he wants. It seems they only launched him through the wall because they realized that they can't make a literal rape scene funny, so they settle for an almost rape scene instead. They can't have Yurin actually punch Muten Roshi in the face either because it would look like HE was in the wrong here! And that would ruin Yurin's bad guy schtick! You don't get to not be raped until AFTER you're reformed, missy! Only when you're a good girl will you earn your "Punch Muten Roshi" card! Well, I'm sorry, I don't find it funny. In fact, I find it uncomfortable. And I love Kame Sennin. I don't WANT him to make me feel uncomfortable. But he did, because he did some pretty shitty stuff in this episode.

If this wasn't already clear, I kinda hate this episode. It's almost as bad as Dolltaki in GT for me. At best, this episode trivializes rape. At worst, this episode teaches terrible morals to little boys, telling them that sexual assault is an acceptable punishment for women. Is a girl being mean to you? Just molest the crap outta her! Chase her around the room until you get your way! That'll teach her! Don't worry if she yells and screams and says no, she deserves it! I mean, come on, Toei. Is that the message you want to send? I mean, geez. I think I hate this single episode more than anything in Super. I mean, episode 5 was ugly, and the Resurrection F arc was boring as a whole, but this episode made me feel dirty watching it. Like I felt like I needed to take a shower afterwards. Again, like the Dolltaki stuff in GT.

Oof. That turned into an outright rant. Sorry. Rant over[/spoiler].

No offense, but I think you're looking into this a bit deeper than you really should. There was never the indication that wanted to rape Yurin. (I mean, seriously, that fact that some fan have jumped that conclusion is ridiculous.) There's nothing to imply that he actually wanted to have sex with her. Roshi perverted antics in the past, which arguably have more unfortunate implication compared to what he did in episode 89 of Super, have never provided the context the wanted to rape a woman. And in the end, he got kicked balls, turned into a zombie and Kamehameha'd by Goku. I can only imagine how people would have reacted if we saw scenario like Roshi rubbing the ass of an unconscious woman in public or squeezing the breast of woman in front of her daughter, like we were treated to in the past.

[dbs fanboy]

Actually, i think those complaints are a little overexagerated. I mean i agree with some of the sentiment, because it is true that those scenes were uncomfortable, but after rewatching them, i don't think it is because Roshi was a "rapist " or that Yurin could be raped; but because after all that shit, Roshi only received a kick in the balls and because it was cut from the scene, it didn't felt like some other beatings Roshi received in then past.

I actually liked more the scene with puar because he hit Roshi with a hammer and it still didn't felt that right. But yeah, i don't think that there was any rape joke in there. It was awkard and kinda off but that's it.

[OmegaRockman]

No offense, but I think you're looking into this a bit deeper than you really should. There was never the indication that wanted to rape Yurin. (I mean, seriously, that fact that some fan have jumped that conclusion is ridiculous.) There's nothing to imply that he actually wanted to have sex with her. Roshi perverted antics in the past, which arguably have more unfortunate implication compared to what he did in episode 89 of Super, have never provided the context the wanted to rape a woman. And in the end, he got kicked balls, turned into a zombie and Kamehameha'd by Goku. I can only imagine how people would have reacted if we saw scenario like Roshi rubbing the ass of an unconscious woman in public or squeezing the breast of woman in front of her daughter, like we were treated to in the past.

I completely forgot about Muten Roshi getting kicked in the balls towards the end, so that's a fair point. However, I still think him chasing Yurin around the room earlier in the episode is pretty bad. Again, the joke in that scene is that Yurin's being sexually harassed. Plus, everyone would rather ignore it than stop it. That's pretty awful if you ask me. You're also right that it isn't clear whether or not Roshi intended to actually rape her, though I still think it came off as much more rapey in comparison to his antics in the earlier series. I don't recall another time where Roshi ever chased a screaming woman around the room, raving about how he would remove the "wickedness" from her - all the other female characters would punch his lights out before it got that far. But still, I concede that outright accusing Roshi of attempted rape was a bit extreme of me. Regardless, I still think his sexual harassment went way over the line here. If Yurin knocked Roshi out like Bulma or Lunch, though, I would feel much more comfortable with this episode since it would clearly place Roshi in the wrong. However, placing Roshi in the wrong would have the audience siding more with Yurin in that moment, much like how the audience would side with Bulma or Lunch whenever they gave Roshi the business. I suspect that the writers may have thought that having the audience side too much with Yurin might undermine her role as the episode's antagonist. Ultimately, it does the episode a disservice because whether it does so intentionally or not, it sends a message that Roshi's sexual harassment is okay so long as he's doing it to an antagonist.

The kick in the balls later on does make the episode a bit easier to deal with, but at the same time it doesn't happen until after Yurin has enacted her plan. Consequently, the audience is less likely to side with her at this point. Plus, the distraction that leads Muten Roshi to leaving himself open to the ball-kicking is framed as accidental he's taking the situation seriously until she trips and he sees her panties. As a result, it seems more like Yurin is exploiting his weakness to further her evil plan instead of fighting back against Muten Roshi's active harassment. This means the punishment aspect is undermined. In fact, it's used more to create tension in the plot rather than for comedy. I certainly don't feel like Muten Roshi's zombification and Goku using a Kamehameha on him was meant to be any sort of punishment for his antics - if anything it's supposed to make Roshi look cool, serving as a sneak peek at how strong Muten Roshi's going to be in the tournament. Tenshinhan has a hard time fighting him, Goku notes how he's been hiding his power, and it takes Goku using a powerful technique to take him down. He's complimented, not reprimanded. In the end, Muten Roshi chases around a girl around in an attempt to, at the bare minimum, touch her in ways that she does not welcome and gets away with it because she's the antagonist. It's kinda disgusting to me.

As for the antics you mentioned from the earlier series, I do somewhat agree that the #18 and Marron situation in the Boo arc was pretty bad - but again, he got beat up for that one, so it's at least made clear that his feeling up #18 was NOT okay. But now that you've reminded me about it, I guess things did occasionally get pretty bad before. However, I still don't think it's as bad as the Yurin episode. As for your other example, I don't seem to recall him feeling up the unconscious woman. Do you mind giving me specifics?

And yeah, I may be looking deeper into this than is necessary for a kid's cartoon, but this episode made me really uncomfortable when I first watched it. These ramblings just come from me trying to figure out why exactly it bothered me so much and put into words. Plus I'm an English major, so reading fiction way too deeply is basically second nature by now, haha.

[Lord Beerus]

No offense, but I think you're looking into this a bit deeper than you really should. There was never the indication that he wanted to rape Yurin. (I mean, seriously, that fact that some fan have jumped that conclusion is ridiculous.) There's nothing to imply that he actually wanted to have sex with her. Roshi perverted antics in the past, which arguably have more unfortunate implications compared to what he did in episode 89 of Super, have never provided the context that he wanted to rape a woman. And in the end, he got kicked in the balls, turned into a zombie and Kamehameha'd by Goku. I can only imagine how people would have reacted if we saw scenario like Roshi rubbing the ass of an unconscious woman in public or squeezing the breast of woman in front of her daughter, like we were treated to in the past.

I completely forgot about Muten Roshi getting kicked in the balls towards the end, so that's a fair point. However, I still think him chasing Yurin around the room earlier in the episode is pretty bad. Again, the joke in that scene is that Yurin's being sexually harassed. Plus, everyone would rather ignore it than stop it. That's pretty awful if you ask me. You're also right that it isn't clear whether or not Roshi intended to actually rape her, though I still think it came off as much more rapey in comparison to his antics in the earlier series. I don't recall another time where Roshi ever chased a screaming woman around the room, raving about how he would remove the "wickedness" from her - all the other female characters would punch his lights out before it got that far. But still, I concede that outright accusing Roshi of attempted rape was a bit extreme of me. Regardless, I still think his sexual harassment went way over the line here. If Yurin knocked Roshi out like Bulma or Lunch, though, I would feel much more comfortable with this episode since it would clearly place Roshi in the wrong. However, placing Roshi in the wrong would have the audience siding more with Yurin in that moment, much like how the audience would side with Bulma or Lunch whenever they gave Roshi the business. I suspect that the writers may have thought that having the audience side too much with Yurin might undermine her role as the episode's antagonist. Ultimately, it does the episode a disservice because whether it does so intentionally or not, it sends a message that Roshi's sexual harassment is okay so long as he's doing it to an antagonist.

The kick in the balls later on does make the episode a bit easier to deal with, but at the same time it doesn't happen until after Yurin has enacted her plan. Consequently, the audience is less likely to side with her at this point. Plus, the distraction that leads Muten Roshi to leaving himself open to the ball-kicking is framed as accidental he's taking the situation seriously until she trips and he sees her panties. As a result, it seems more like Yurin is exploiting his weakness to further her evil plan instead of fighting back against Muten Roshi's active harassment. This means the punishment aspect is undermined. In fact, it's used more to create tension in the plot rather than for comedy. I certainly don't feel like Muten Roshi's zombification and Goku using a Kamehameha on him was meant to be any sort of punishment for his antics - if anything it's supposed to make Roshi look cool, serving as a sneak peek at how strong Muten Roshi's going to be in the tournament. Tenshinhan has a hard time fighting him, Goku notes how he's been hiding his power, and it takes Goku using a powerful technique to take him down. He's complimented, not reprimanded. In the end, Muten Roshi chases around a girl around in an attempt to, at the bare minimum, touch her in ways that she does not welcome and gets away with it because she's the antagonist. It's kinda disgusting to me.

As for the antics you mentioned from the earlier series, I do somewhat agree that the #18 and Marron situation in the Boo arc was pretty bad - but again, he got beat up for that one, so it's at least made clear that his feeling up #18 was NOT okay. But now that you've reminded me about it, I guess things did occasionally get pretty bad before. However, I still don't think it's as bad as the Yurin episode. As for your other example, I don't seem to recall him feeling up the unconscious woman. Do you mind giving me specifics?

And yeah, I may be looking deeper into this than is necessary for a kid's cartoon, but this episode made me really uncomfortable when I first watched it. These ramblings just come from me trying to figure out why exactly it bothered me so much and put into words. Plus I'm an English major, so reading fiction way too deeply is basically second nature by now, haha.

The instance I mentioned about him rubbing the ass of an unconscious woman in public, was when he coped a feel of Ranfan's ass after he knocked her out in their match in the 21st WMAT. And there other examples as well. Such as when he out-right grabbed one of Marron's breasts, who reacted in disgust over it, and then right after, that he rubbed his face between Chi Chi's breasts. And in those occasions, he never really got an comeuppance for those actions. What he did in Super is very tame compared to that.

[omaro34]

Not surprised. They did go too far. They should have been more aware that there would be a backlash against it.

Would have likely gotten away with it in 1995 but not in 2017.

[SaiyanGod117]

The instance I mentioned about him rubbing the ass of an unconscious woman in public, was when he coped a feel of Ranfan's ass after he knocked her out in their match in the 21st WMAT. And there other examples as well. Such as when he out-right grabbed one of Marron's breasts, who reacted in disgust over it, and then right after, that he rubbed his face between Chi Chi's breasts. And in those occasions, he never really got an comeuppance for those actions. What he did in Super is very tame compared to that.

Roshi's didn't knock her out that was Namu, plus the announcer told him to immediately get off the stage once he realized what he was doing. Also from the looks of that video with Marron she thought of Roshi's grabbing her breast as nothing more than funny joke by her smiling about it. Anyways these seem pretty tame to what he did in episode 89 of Super.

[GreatSaiyaJeff]

While it was amusing at first in episode 89, it did get stale pretty quickly. It just seemed like the episode didn't know what to do with Roshi until he got possessed.

The Puar stuff I actually thought was amusing just because he actually was trying to get over his perversion.

[Lord Beerus]

The instance I mentioned about him rubbing the ass of an unconscious woman in public, was when he coped a feel of Ranfan's ass after he knocked her out in their match in the 21st WMAT. And there other examples as well. Such as when he out-right grabbed one of Marron's breasts, who reacted in disgust over it, and then right after, that he rubbed his face between Chi Chi's breasts. And in those occasions, he never really got an comeuppance for those actions. What he did in Super is very tame compared to that.

Roshi's didn't knock her out that was Namu, plus the announcer told him to immediately get off the stage once he realized what he was doing. Also from the looks of that video with Marron she thought of Roshi's grabbing her breast as nothing more than funny joke by her smiling about it. Anyways these seem pretty tame to what he did in episode 89 of Super.

My mistake about who knocked out Ranfan, but that doesn't make his actions any better. What happened in Super was over the top but it never at once got to any stage where it's implied he wanted to rape Yurin, as lot of people have claimed. If he wanted to do it, he would have done it. I mean, if the act of chasing after a woman with unclear intentions of what may transpire, and keep in mind that Roshi has never attempted to rape a woman before, so why now people think that's what would have been the case to begin with is beyond me to even begin with, is worse than actually grabbing a woman's breast, and keep in my Marron didn't like that at all, and groping the ass of woman who is unconscious then... I don't really know what to say. I mean... holy shit. Talk about skewered priorities. Let me just go on record and say that Roshi's actions in episode 89 of Super were not tolerable in the slightest, but he's done worst past.

Would have likely gotten away with it in 1995 but not in 2017.

Yeah. There is no doubt in my mind that 20 years ago people would have batted an eyelid to this sort of thing. I mean, people were willing to turn a blind to Roshi sexually assaulting Ranfan and Marron but this is where is line is drawn.

[SHINOBI-03]

The instance I mentioned about him rubbing the ass of an unconscious woman in public, was when he coped a feel of Ranfan's ass after he knocked her out in their match in the 21st WMAT. And there other examples as well. Such as when he out-right grabbed one of Marron's breasts, who reacted in disgust over it, and then right after, that he rubbed his face between Chi Chi's breasts. And in those occasions, he never really got an comeuppance for those actions. What he did in Super is very tame compared to that.

For the first one I want to say he was acting as Jackie Chun more than being Muten Roshi to put a facade, but I wouldn't disagree. The other incidents along with 18 were TV filler only and never were in the manga, so you could put the blame on whoever wrote these episodes.

[omaro34]

Would have likely gotten away with it in 1995 but not in 2017.

Yeah. There is not doubt in my mind that 20 years people would have batted an eyelid to this sort of thing. I mean, people were willing to turn a blind to Roshi sexually assaulting Ranfan and Marron but this is where is line is drawn.

They would bat an eyelid to this back in the day because in society's viewpoint it wasn't crossing the line. Ideologies change, and what's offensive or not offensive from a societal standard changes as well. Things are more censored now. Population of disadvantaged groups increases, and with social media and the advancement in technology & access to information leads to minority groups like women, colored people, and LBGT people having more of a voice now than what they did back then too. More people have more liberal point of view than the old status quo now, and believe it or not we are more accepting. Call it politically correct, but I'm not in a position to tell somebody what's offensive to them. So I'm not surprised in the slightest that episode 89 of Super would be uncomfortable to some folks.

Sorry to deviate a bit away from Dragonball, but I felt it was relevant.

[Lord Beerus]

Would have likely gotten away with it in 1995 but not in 2017.

Yeah. There is no doubt in my mind that 20 years ago people would have batted an eyelid to this sort of thing. I mean, people were willing to turn a blind to Roshi sexually assaulting Ranfan and Marron but this is where is line is drawn..

They would bat an eyelid to this back in the day because in society's viewpoint it wasn't crossing the line. Ideologies change, and what's offensive or not offensive from a societal standard perspective changes as well. Things are more censored now. Population of disadvantaged groups increases, and with social media and the advancement in technology & access to information leads to minority groups like women, colored people, and LBGT people having more of a voice now than what they did back then too. More people have more liberal point of view than the old status quo now, and believe it or not we are more accepting. Call it politically correct, but I'm not in a position to tell somebody what's offensive to them. So I'm not surprised in the slightest that episode 89 of Super would be uncomfortable to some folks.

Sorry to deviate a bit away from Dragonball, but I felt it was relevant.

What's really considered acceptable and not acceptable has certainly changed over the years. As you mention, ideologies change, and as such, the groups that want more stricter regulations for what is put on out TV screens, or in books or in video games or movies, grow more and more prominent to the point to where they can't be ignored. And it doesn't help that every single fuck up, whether intentional or not, is placed under a microscope for intense inspection to see if it can be picked apart even more. Chasing after a girl is an indication of attempting rape but groping a woman's breast is acceptable.

Censorship fucking sucks.

[omaro34]

Yeah. There is no doubt in my mind that 20 years ago people would have batted an eyelid to this sort of thing. I mean, people were willing to turn a blind to Roshi sexually assaulting Ranfan and Marron but this is where is line is drawn..

They would bat an eyelid to this back in the day because in society's viewpoint it wasn't crossing the line. Ideologies change, and what's offensive or not offensive from a societal standard perspective changes as well. Things are more censored now. Population of disadvantaged groups increases, and with social media and the advancement in technology & access to information leads to minority groups like women, colored people, and LBGT people having more of a voice now than what they did back then too. More people have more liberal point of view than the old status quo now, and believe it or not we are more accepting. Call it politically correct, but I'm not in a position to tell somebody what's offensive to them. So I'm not surprised in the slightest that episode 89 of Super would be uncomfortable to some folks.

Sorry to deviate a bit away from Dragonball, but I felt it was relevant.

And it doesn't help that every single fuck up, whether intentional or not, is placed under a microscope for intense inspection to see if it can be picked apart even more. Chasing after a girl is an indication of attempting rape but groping a woman's breast is acceptable.

Censorship fucking sucks.

Every single fuck up will be inspected thoroughly hands down. That is so true its not even funny. We can catch every frame in a Dragonball Super episode now and analyze it. Employers can see everything you post on the internet if they really tried. You can be an amazing person with an incredible job and if you make a mistake and is caught on tape through some punk with a cellphone in the background, even if the mistake is relatively minimal and nothing out of this world, you will be put on blast so fast.

I finally convinced a girl I know to watch Dragonball Super. She's never seen Dragonball before period. It just happened to land on episode 89 being the first episode she would watch. I was stupid that I didn't think episode 89 would be bad, because I thought it would be mainly about Tien. Boy was I wrong. I've never been so uncomfortable watching an episode with someone who wants to get into the series. Everytime I saw Roshi I was like "fuck when can it show someone else". She watched the episode with me but didn't like it, and now assumes Dragonball is a perverted show because of it.

Reputation is so hard to build, so fucking hard, and its so easy to destroy. Take that motto wherever you go in life. Society is not forgiving.

[wolflonnie]

It was uncomfortable because Yurin couldn't defend herself and Roshi is a total stranger to her.
It's no Bulma knowing the guy and more or less tolerate his shit, it's no A18 who lives (lived?) with him and could've blasted the guy into oblivion if she wanted to, it was a powerless girl chased by a total stranger.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN1JnnxXKTg she doesn't defend herself, he insists and the scenes goes on way too long.

[Yomi]

Meh, I've seen worst from Roshi.
The constant bulma groping, the bathroom voyeur, the unconscious ranfan groping.

I don't think this is the absolute worst thing Roshi has done, I mean, humor aside.
This is not in a "too far" category for Roshi.

And then we have all the killing and violence in the show, and that's cool, but Roshi is too much and we have to think of the children.

[Asura]

Everyone should keep in mind that the Ranfan scene only lasted a grand total of 12 seconds. In comparison, the episode 89 scene lasted 3+ minutes and completely interrupted the flow of the episode. The Ranfan joke was I think, appropriate at the time it was made, and was well executed in being a short joke irrelevant to the plot. In contrast, the episode 89 scene was just terrible and went on for way too long. It also went much farther than the Ranfan joke IMO