Pre-Tournament of Power Opinions

[Asura]

I disagree. I think the Future Trunks arc trying to diverge away from linearity is what caused it to become such a colossal fuck-up in the first place. They should stick to what they know. Sure it's nice to change things up from the normal formula and get away from being linear, but if they can't do it then they shouldn't even attempt it, otherwise we'll just get the Future Trunks arc again.

I don't understand what people's issues are with having multiple tournaments in the series. The original Dragon Ball had three tournaments, and all of them went uninterrupted and were usually only broken up by one arc. The tournaments were some of the best parts of Dragon Ball to me, so I really don't mind just a straight up tournament, no hidden ulterior motives from the higher ups or anything crazy like that.

I haven't said anything about telling a non-linear narrative. I'm just asking for the type of stories that came to define the series from the moment Piccolo Daimao showed up. I'm asking for the exact opposite of what you think I'm asking for. Bounce me from this tournament into something grander a la the Boo arc. That's it.

While the first tournament in Dragon Ball was played straight, the second ended with Kuririn's death that catapulted us into a larger tale. The third tournament, while a nice spectacle, is not the best thing in the world, so there's no inconsistency in my view there. The Boo arc's tournament, again, catapulted us into something else. Tournaments are fine in and of themselves, but we're way beyond those simple tales now. They're not interesting enough to stand on their own at the point we're at now. They need to be starting points, not the entirety of an arc.

Super has introduced so many new elements since it began, but we haven't actually explored them to a significant degree yet. In Dragon Ball, we're told of God, so we go to God's Temple, hone our skills, and it becomes a regular part of the series. In Dragon Ball Z, we're told about Namek, so we go Namek and have one of the grandest story arcs in the series. We're told about the Kaioshin realm, so we go to the Kaioshin realm, meet new characters, then have a huge battle. The series was all about introducing new elements and having us explore them through the story told. There was always this sense of adventure. I love love love that.

For me, Super hasn't made masses of progress in this regard. I love that Beerus' planet is a norm, and I love that we saw Zuno's planet, if only for a short while. I don't love staring at a purple sky and stone floor for an entire arc while being introduced to all of these characters with amazing backstories that we don't get to see. I'm not looking forward to staring at a black background for weeks on end while this upcoming tournament takes place. Again, for all of the Future Trunks arc's issues, I appreciate it for taking us to another universe, for taking us to Zeno's place, and for setting the story in the future - which is of course the same as our world, but it feels different.

This arc has shown us other universes, different cities and planets, and all sorts. Unfortunately, they're not convincing. I can't be sold on a world by a mere glimpse of it. I need our characters there and interacting with it to feel any sort of strong emotion. That's what I so desperately want from this series and future arcs. Give us a reason to go somewhere and tell me a story in that world.

There's nothing wrong with what they're doing right now, really. It's just that it feels like they're constantly planting seeds, but never letting them blossom into something great.

Hope that makes more sense!

I'm not really sure I'm understanding you properly. From what I thought you wrote, I thought you were implying that you wanted more than just a linear standard tournament, that you wanted something along the lines of the Buu tournament where it wasn't really a tournament at all and just changed into something completely different. I'm arguing against that, and arguing for more of a linear tournament like the ones we had in Dragon Ball. You're correct in that the 22nd Budokai, Kuririn dies afterwards which takes us into an entirely new arc, but that was after the tournament. The tournament was linear and standard, and then something happened afterwards. I wouldn't be against something like that, I just don't want the tournament to be interrupted by something dumb that makes everyone ignore the tournament like in the Buu arc.

I agree with what you're saying in wanting the series to explore all these different universes and cities and planets, but if we're being honest that would be impossible. The arc would be like 70 episodes long if that happened, and while I personally have no objection to that, it's understandable as to why the majority of people would hate a 70 episode long arc. I'm happy they even bothered to show off some other universes at all, to be honest. Or even give other characters some spotlight like Toppo or Cabba. I think they did a good job considering the circumstances. Unfortunately the days of animes lasting hundreds of episodes are basically over. Z was able to do so much because it was almost 300 episodes long.

[Ajay]

I'm not really sure I'm understanding you properly. From what I thought you wrote, I thought you were implying that you wanted more than just a linear standard tournament, that you wanted something along the lines of the Buu tournament where it wasn't really a tournament at all and just changed into something completely different. I'm arguing against that, and arguing for more of a linear tournament like the ones we had in Dragon Ball. You're correct in that the 22nd Budokai, Kuririn dies afterwards which takes us into an entirely new arc, but that was after the tournament. The tournament was linear and standard, and then something happened afterwards. I wouldn't be against something like that, I just don't want the tournament to be interrupted by something dumb that makes everyone ignore the tournament like in the Buu arc.

I agree with what you're saying in wanting the series to explore all these different universes and cities and planets, but if we're being honest that would be impossible. The arc would be like 70 episodes long if that happened, and while I personally have no objection to that, it's understandable as to why the majority of people would hate a 70 episode long arc. I'm happy they even bothered to show off some other universes at all, to be honest. Or even give other characters some spotlight like Toppo or Cabba. I think they did a good job considering the circumstances. Unfortunately the days of animes lasting hundreds of episodes are basically over. Z was able to do so much because it was almost 300 episodes long.

Ah, I see the confusion now. Apologies.

I'm fine with the tournament running its course, but I don't want it tied in a neat little bow like the other arcs. I want it to springboard into something else that actually feels like a natural evolution of the story that's just been told.

I've written some long rants in the past about how each arc in Super feels like an extended movie. Yes, they're linked through the odd plot point, but they're incredibly tenuous. They just don't flow in the same way the original series did. They end and then the next movie begins. The only time the original series did that was after a time-skip.

I'd like the tournament to end in a manner that forces our characters forward into the next story. For example, perhaps the final battle has consequences that pushes our heroes off to another universe, similar to how they had to go to Namek following the Saiyan arc. The last thing I want are for things to end neatly, leaving us to sit through weeks of meandering 'filler' until the next arc just begins out of nowhere.

Gimme some convincing flow~

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

Oh hey! I remember asking about what your thoughts on the arc were not too long ago and you've gone and made a thread about it.

I definitely agree with what you've said. Here's my take on the arc so far.

I haven't had the opportunity yet to marathon what we've gotten as of now, but I always thought that it would be a better experience than watching it weekly. I feel as though fans who complain about the pacing are only doing so because they've never actually watched any of Dragon Ball weekly. I mean, just imagine watching Goku running on Snake Way weekly in 2017. You'd drop that show like there's no tomorrow.

As for what has happened so far, I definitely have enjoyed what has unfolded, although not all of it. The arc started super strong, having Goku go ask about the tournament and then following it up with the Zen Exhibition Match was really clever. The Zen Exhibition match was great! The fight with Bergamo was the weakest, but it did do a good job showing how much of a threat Goku is to other universes. Goku vs Toppo was definitely a treat. I love that we got an extra fight and it was a pretty damn good one.

The recruitment episodes that followed ranged from great to mediocre. Great being the recruitment of Krillin, 18, 17 and Freeza. Mediocre being the recruitment of Tien, Roshi and that damn space Poacher episode that just came outta nowhere. I do like seeing things that either don't relate to the upcoming tournament and stuff occurring in other universes. Bra's episode was definitely sweet. I always love seeing that side of Vegeta. Pretty much anything that unfolded in other universes was interesting to see. Both Gohan's training episode and Gohan's fight with Goku were fantastic, especially the latter. Freeza's return (AGAIN) at first, sounded like a bad idea, but it was executed so damn well and pretty much erased all doubts in my mind. It really is better than Resurrection 'F'.

I am definitely enjoying this arc so far. I'm not enjoying it as much as the Future Trunks arc, but I absolutely loved that arc so it's hard to top.

[OLKv3]

I want the series to actually explore Universe 6. I want to see Planet Sadla

[ArchedThunder]

Ah, I see the confusion now. Apologies.

I'm fine with the tournament running its course, but I don't want it tied in a neat little bow like the other arcs. I want it to springboard into something else that actually feels like a natural evolution of the story that's just been told.

I've written some long rants in the past about how each arc in Super feels like an extended movie. Yes, they're linked through the odd plot point, but they're incredibly tenuous. They just don't flow in the same way the original series did. They end and then the next movie begins. The only time the original series did that was after a time-skip.

I'd like the tournament to end in a manner that forces our characters forward into the next story. For example, perhaps the final battle has consequences that pushes our heroes off to another universe, similar to how they had to go to Namek following the Saiyan arc. The last thing I want are for things to end neatly, leaving us to sit through weeks of meandering 'filler' until the next arc just begins out of nowhere.

Gimme some convincing flow~

I wonder if part of that is due to the rush of the production.
I don't mind arcs being self contained, but I also would love to have some arcs here and there lead into each other directly.
Part of me feels like we won't start getting arcs that flow into each other under after we go past the end of Z.

[perucho1990]

I wonder if part of that is due to the rush of the production.
I don't mind arcs being self contained, but I also would love to have some arcs here and there lead into each other directly.
Part of me feels like we won't start getting arcs that flow into each other under after we go past the end of Z.

For me, the reason we couldnt be getting arcs with that flow is until the Production is completely normal.

I also hope we finally reach EoZ after this arc and then go beyond End of Z.

[Asura]

I'm not really sure I'm understanding you properly. From what I thought you wrote, I thought you were implying that you wanted more than just a linear standard tournament, that you wanted something along the lines of the Buu tournament where it wasn't really a tournament at all and just changed into something completely different. I'm arguing against that, and arguing for more of a linear tournament like the ones we had in Dragon Ball. You're correct in that the 22nd Budokai, Kuririn dies afterwards which takes us into an entirely new arc, but that was after the tournament. The tournament was linear and standard, and then something happened afterwards. I wouldn't be against something like that, I just don't want the tournament to be interrupted by something dumb that makes everyone ignore the tournament like in the Buu arc.

I agree with what you're saying in wanting the series to explore all these different universes and cities and planets, but if we're being honest that would be impossible. The arc would be like 70 episodes long if that happened, and while I personally have no objection to that, it's understandable as to why the majority of people would hate a 70 episode long arc. I'm happy they even bothered to show off some other universes at all, to be honest. Or even give other characters some spotlight like Toppo or Cabba. I think they did a good job considering the circumstances. Unfortunately the days of animes lasting hundreds of episodes are basically over. Z was able to do so much because it was almost 300 episodes long.

Ah, I see the confusion now. Apologies.

I'm fine with the tournament running its course, but I don't want it tied in a neat little bow like the other arcs. I want it to springboard into something else that actually feels like a natural evolution of the story that's just been told.

I've written some long rants in the past about how each arc in Super feels like an extended movie. Yes, they're linked through the odd plot point, but they're incredibly tenuous. They just don't flow in the same way the original series did. They end and then the next movie begins. The only time the original series did that was after a time-skip.

I'd like the tournament to end in a manner that forces our characters forward into the next story. For example, perhaps the final battle has consequences that pushes our heroes off to another universe, similar to how they had to go to Namek following the Saiyan arc. The last thing I want are for things to end neatly, leaving us to sit through weeks of meandering 'filler' until the next arc just begins out of nowhere.

Gimme some convincing flow~

Ah, okay. Yes, I 100% agree with you there that Super has felt like a bunch of mini stories instead of one consecutive story. New arcs just kind of start without any real build-up from the last one. Hell, you could start watching Super from this arc alone, knowing nothing about any other arc, and still be able to understand almost everything. The only things you'd need quickly explained to you would be Zeno, Champa, Hit, Frost, and Cabba.

Some flow would be nice, and I should think they'd have it planned out that the next arc would continue where this one left off, hopefully. There's just too many characters we're being introduced to like Caulifla and Toppo for them to just completely disappear to their own universes and never heard from again in the next arc. There's no doubt that this arc will be/already is their most successful one yet, and I should assume it will probably be the most watched arc as well. If they know what's good for them, they'd ride this arc right into the next to capitalize on the success of this one. And I guess by "them" I mean Toriyama, since he's the one calling the shots.

Then again they could completely screw up the tournament part of the arc and have everything go crashing down in a fiery inferno of garbage like how the FT arc ended, but lets hope that doesn't happen and everything is successful. They've surpassed my expectations so far with this arc, and I hope that continues.

[ArchedThunder]

For me, the reason we couldnt be getting arcs with that flow is until the Production is completely normal.

I also hope we finally reach EoZ after this arc and then go beyond End of Z.

I don't think the production will be much of an issue(if at all) come next arc, we know from Toshio that the scripts themselves are written in a normal amount of time for an anime now(3-4 weeks) and he started writing/wrote(hard to say which with his English) episode 99 4 or 5 months before it airs, which is really close to a good production (5-6 months). This arc being really long also helps them do more planning for future arcs as well.