Mortal stronger than a GoD

[MagmonKai]

I highly doubt it's Jiren. KKx10 Goku is still nowhere near Beerus, and Jiren can be only say, like 1,5x stronger than Goku in that state. Doesn't mean he has to be taken as stronger than Gods of Destruction.

Also it's worth mentioning that not every instance of Goku using Kaioken in SSj Blue was 10x. Sometimes it was just a regular 2x, which I believe Goku used against Toppo, and the latter erroneously assumed that was all Goku's capable of. So current KKx10 SSj Blue Goku can in fact be able to fight on par with Jiren or probably even have an advantage.

Yes, KKx10 was differentiated by the magenta glow over his face. It was like a new form, but it's incredibly unstable and can lead to permanent damage. The form is powerful, but it's extremely limited. I would imagine it's more a last ditch effort. He was definitely close to Beerus' strength when he went that level. I think his new form will be a variant that rivals the power of the SSBx10 but without the negative draw backs. Goku was so fast in this form that he completely nullified Hit's time skip. I'm sure he could have done what Jiren did no problem.

[OLKv3]

Whis was talking about someone who'd be in the tournament. How can you guys ignore this. It's Jiren, end of the story.

Toriyama stated he had no plans of Goku surpassing Beerus, he can always change his mind, but his statement should still be taken into consideration.

Also, the anime version of Jiren may have abilities that can be overcome by simply "powering up" similar to ways Vegeta and Goku overcame Goku Black and Hit.

He stated that half a year ago, when the Charma arc hadn't even started yet.

Whis was not talking about someone who'd be in the tournament. Stop making things up. He gave no indication on who he was talking about.

[avasatu]

I believe it can't be Jiren. The only way that makes sense is if Goku or other participants figure out a way to beat him despite his power, rather than by surpassing it.

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

I believe it's Jiren. He's being hyped a lot.
I also don't get how some people expect Goku to surpass Beerus. In Dragon Ball, Roshi was surpassed in the RRA by Goku and it happened a little out of nowhere so I don't get why Beerus can't be surpassed in this arc.

After all, the gap between Goku and Beerus was not massive even back in the BoG arc/movie. Now Goku is a lot stronger, plus with KKx10 how is that not at least touching Beerus' full power now? I wouldn't be surprised if Jiren is stronger than Beerus by a small margin.

[julianix]

They just keep dowmscaling Goku and upscaling Beerus to fit the narrative. I fully expect Jiren to be the warrior stronger than beerus..but it won't mean much because Gin, and the other 3 gods of destruction clearly have superior universes with stronger warriors.

[Saturnine]

I believe it's Jiren. He's being hyped a lot.
I also don't get how some people expect Goku to surpass Beerus. In Dragon Ball, Roshi was surpassed in the RRA by Goku and it happened a little out of nowhere so I don't get why Beerus can't be surpassed in this arc.

After all, the gap between Goku and Beerus was not massive even back in the BoG arc/movie. Now Goku is a lot stronger, plus with KKx10 how is that not at least touching Beerus' full power now? I wouldn't be surprised if Jiren is stronger than Beerus by a small margin.

The 6 to 10 proportion and "Goku and Vegeta together having a chance to beat Beerus" has been rectonned, you really shouldn't worry so much about it.

[Zamasu55]

Whis was talking about someone who'd be in the tournament. How can you guys ignore this. It's Jiren, end of the story.

Toriyama stated he had no plans of Goku surpassing Beerus, he can always change his mind, but his statement should still be taken into consideration.

Also, the anime version of Jiren may have abilities that can be overcome by simply "powering up" similar to ways Vegeta and Goku overcame Goku Black and Hit.

He stated that half a year ago, when the Charma arc hadn't even started yet.

Whis was not talking about someone who'd be in the tournament. Stop making things up. He gave no indication on who he was talking about.

Whis answered Goku's question, which was "can we win the tournament?"
Stop denying facts, thank you.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Whis was talking about someone who'd be in the tournament. How can you guys ignore this. It's Jiren, end of the story.


He stated that half a year ago, when the Charma arc hadn't even started yet.

Whis was not talking about someone who'd be in the tournament. Stop making things up. He gave no indication on who he was talking about.

Whis answered Goku's question, which was "can we win the tournament?"
Stop denying facts, thank you.

Yes but logically it doesnt make sense, it was poorly presented. Not only how Whis explained which actually does leave room for interpretation it but how Beerus isnt even phased by it.

If Vegito was only MAYBE as strong as Beerus it seems like poor writing unless as others have said Jiren is eliminated through strategy or actually wins.

We will see. I'm stll 50/50

[Legion]

Whis was talking about someone who'd be in the tournament. How can you guys ignore this. It's Jiren, end of the story.


He stated that half a year ago, when the Charma arc hadn't even started yet.

Whis was not talking about someone who'd be in the tournament. Stop making things up. He gave no indication on who he was talking about.

Whis answered Goku's question, which was "can we win the tournament?"
Stop denying facts, thank you.

Whis statement is vague. He said that he does not know so much about the other universes, but he know that there is a universe with this mortal that a God of Destruction can't defeat (and this God is physically stronger than Beerus). And again, unless Beerus losing to every Hakaishin in an arm wrestling, then Whis/Beerus knows what universe they're talking about. When Goku fought Toppo, Beerus couldn't believe that Universe 11 had a fighter that strong, Beerus was shocked after knowing that Goku was fighting universe 11's second best and now he doesn't care if someone stronger than him fight in the tournament?

Whis probably only said this to warn Goku to be careful, because he can find many strong people in the tournament. So yeah, is not a "fact" at all. He can be Jiren, but is not sure.

[Zamasu55]

Whis was not talking about someone who'd be in the tournament. Stop making things up. He gave no indication on who he was talking about.

Whis answered Goku's question, which was "can we win the tournament?"
Stop denying facts, thank you.

Yes but logically it doesnt make sense, it was poorly presented. Not only how Whis explained which actually does leave room for interpretation it but how Beerus isnt even phased by it.

If Vegito was only MAYBE as strong as Beerus it seems like poor writing unless as others have said Jiren is eliminated through strategy or actually wins.

We will see. I'm stll 50/50

It's pretty obvious that Goku's getting a new transformation.

[OLKv3]

Whis was talking about someone who'd be in the tournament. How can you guys ignore this. It's Jiren, end of the story.


He stated that half a year ago, when the Charma arc hadn't even started yet.

Whis was not talking about someone who'd be in the tournament. Stop making things up. He gave no indication on who he was talking about.

Whis answered Goku's question, which was "can we win the tournament?"
Stop denying facts, thank you.

Nope. His answer to Goku's question was that he didn't know much about the universes in the tournament. His statement about the powerful mortal was another statement entirely
It's foolish to treat his line as a matter of fact statement while telling everyone it's definitely him. Especially if/when it turns out not to be him

[GodKaio-Ken]

Whis answered Goku's question, which was "can we win the tournament?"
Stop denying facts, thank you.

Yes but logically it doesnt make sense, it was poorly presented. Not only how Whis explained which actually does leave room for interpretation it but how Beerus isnt even phased by it.

If Vegito was only MAYBE as strong as Beerus it seems like poor writing unless as others have said Jiren is eliminated through strategy or actually wins.

We will see. I'm stll 50/50

It's pretty obvious that Goku's getting a new transformation.

I dont buy a new transformation that puts him that high. The transformation would need to be stronger than Vegito I just cant see it.

I agree he will get a new form, my argument is its terrible writing in the way its presented. I've enjoyed the arc so far but this one particular thing is odd.

[MisteryOne]

Yes but logically it doesnt make sense, it was poorly presented. Not only how Whis explained which actually does leave room for interpretation it but how Beerus isnt even phased by it.

If Vegito was only MAYBE as strong as Beerus it seems like poor writing unless as others have said Jiren is eliminated through strategy or actually wins.

We will see. I'm stll 50/50

It's pretty obvious that Goku's getting a new transformation.

I dont buy a new transformation that puts him that high. The transformation would need to be stronger than Vegito I just cant see it.

I agree he will get a new form, my argument is its terrible writing in the way its presented. I've enjoyed the arc so far but this one particular thing is odd.

I would agree about the bad writing (hoping the manga handles it better) but to be fair SSG also put Goku in a level stronger than Vegito.

[GodKaio-Ken]

It's pretty obvious that Goku's getting a new transformation.

I dont buy a new transformation that puts him that high. The transformation would need to be stronger than Vegito I just cant see it.

I agree he will get a new form, my argument is its terrible writing in the way its presented. I've enjoyed the arc so far but this one particular thing is odd.

I would agree about the bad writing (hoping the manga handles it better) but to be fair SSG also put Goku in a level stronger than Vegito.

That is true, but I feel like gaining God Ki should do that but once you have it is there really something as drastic?
Hopefully they explain it well...I'm just not sure they will. Either way its just a small part of an arc I'm enjoying so oh well.

[aravinthan]

1. Beerus and Whis didn`t recognize pride troopers uniform, which they will wear while fighting or doing their duty.
2. Even after Goku shared about Toppo`s info on Jiren, Whis and Beerus did not speak anything suspicious.
3. Beerus had a arm wrestling match with that mortal ,lets say X.
4. Even after seeing Jiren in epi 96, no one recognized that guy, at least not yet.

If you think logically, Jiren is not the guy who defeated Beerus. Personally I think that the mortal will take part in post- EoZ arcs, as Toyatoro said the super won`t end by EoZ

OR Whis pulled a monaka again.

[GodKaio-Ken]

1. Beerus and Whis didn`t recognize pride troopers uniform, which they will wear while fighting or doing their duty.
2. Even after Goku shared about Toppo`s info on Jiren, Whis and Beerus did not speak anything suspicious.
3. Beerus had a arm wrestling match with that mortal ,lets say X.
4. Even after seeing Jiren in epi 96, no one recognized that guy, at least not yet.

If you think logically, Jiren is not the guy who defeated Beerus. Personally I think that the mortal will take part in post- EoZ arcs, as Toyatoro said the super won`t end by EoZ

OR Whis pulled a monaka again.

Thanks for saying what I was but with more detail. These are the exact reasons I'm saying that if they DID mean Jiren they portrayed it extremely poorly.

[Pluto]

1. Beerus and Whis didn`t recognize pride troopers uniform, which they will wear while fighting or doing their duty.
2. Even after Goku shared about Toppo`s info on Jiren, Whis and Beerus did not speak anything suspicious.
3. Beerus had a arm wrestling match with that mortal ,lets say X.
4. Even after seeing Jiren in epi 96, no one recognized that guy, at least not yet.

If you think logically, Jiren is not the guy who defeated Beerus. Personally I think that the mortal will take part in post- EoZ arcs, as Toyatoro said the super won`t end by EoZ

OR Whis pulled a monaka again.

You guys sure? Beerus arm-wrestled another Hakaishin, not the mortal itself.

[GodKaio-Ken]

1. Beerus and Whis didn`t recognize pride troopers uniform, which they will wear while fighting or doing their duty.
2. Even after Goku shared about Toppo`s info on Jiren, Whis and Beerus did not speak anything suspicious.
3. Beerus had a arm wrestling match with that mortal ,lets say X.
4. Even after seeing Jiren in epi 96, no one recognized that guy, at least not yet.

If you think logically, Jiren is not the guy who defeated Beerus. Personally I think that the mortal will take part in post- EoZ arcs, as Toyatoro said the super won`t end by EoZ

OR Whis pulled a monaka again.

You guys sure? Beerus arm-wrestled another Hakaishin, not the mortal itself.

Yes because think about it -

How many do you think have beaten Beerus? If one of them in the tournament did his reaction would have been like "Oh shit I hope it isnt U11 because he is one God who beat me...."

Even if there were 2-3 heck even 4.....youd think one in the tournament would set the alarm off.

[Simere]

All 4 of aravinthan's points are based on the faulty premise that Beerus arm wrestled with this mortal.

[Amir]

We all know this mortal has to be in the tournament since the reason Whis said it in the first place is because Goku asked if Universe 7 could win this without high difficulty. The main guy who was featured in the opening next to Goku is Jiren, he's been hyped a lot, especially in the latest episode, it's 100% Jiren.