Power Gap Between Goku & Others Closing...Not Good for DBS?

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Power Gap Between Goku & Others Closing...Not Good for DBS?

Post by KingKaash » Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:38 am

For years, many of us fans have complained that Goku has left the rest of the Z Fighters in the dust when it comes to reaching new power levels and transformations. Any human had no chance. Gohan peaked in the Cell Saga only to lose the lead back to Goku and reach terrible lows. And Vegeta has always been the #2 guy in the DB franchise behind Goku.

But in this Universal Survival Arc things have changed. The gap between Goku and a few of the other characters has actually shortened considerably. The list of people who can push Goku to SSJB or KKSSJB has grown to Vegeta, Golden Frieza, Ultimate Gohan and Android 17. That means there are now 5 total characters who I would classify in the "God power tier" including Goku himself, again meaning that they can push Goku to fight in SSJB form.

So how is this a bad thing? Well, first it was stated that U7 had one of the lowest power levels among all mortals that inhabit that Universe. That's fine and dandy but then how do they have 5 characters in the "God power tier?" The reason I bring this up and why I ultimately think it could be a bad thing is because of my next point. How many other Universes have 5 "God power tier" characters? From all the characters we know so far only Hit, Toppo and Jiren can push Goku to SSJB. I don't think Dyspo, General Casseral, Cabba or Brianne can bring about the full power of the "God power tier" characters I've listed. Caulifla and Kale are unknowns at this point.

So we have a superteam here in U7 with 5 "God power tier" characters while the rest of the seven Universes participating only have 3 such characters in total. Will they make new strong characters to match this tier? I sure hope so. Because otherwise this tournament will be pretty lopsided considering the power that the superteam Universe 7 possesses.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to see characters like my favorite Gohan get a significant power boost and become relevant again. But does the opposition really have characters to match the power that these 5 have displayed in these episodes leading up to the ToP. If not, the Tournament won't be much fun or won't make much sense. I personally believe the right thing to have done was to make Gohan and Android 17 on midlevel power and not all the way up to Goku and Vegeta's level. That way a fight between possibly Gohan and Cabba or Android 17 and General Casseral would've been more compelling. Because at this point, I think Gohan and Android 17 are way stronger Cabba and Casseral. Same even goes for a possible Frieza vs Frost fight.

What are your thoughts?
"Gohan, let it go. It is not a sin to fight for the right cause. There are those who words alone will not reach. Cell is such a being. I know how you feel Gohan, you are gentle, you do not like to hurt. I know because I too have learned these feelings. But it is because you cherish life that you must protect it. Please drop your restraints. Protect the life I once loved. You have the strength, my scanners sensed it..." -Android 16

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Re: Power Gap Between Goku & Others Closing...Not Good for DBS?

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:43 am

Your premise hinges on the assumption that a universe's rating is based on power levels, but the state of Universe 9 paints a different picture. It's not a universe full of weaklings, but one of chaos. There's also the case of the U6/U7 pair, in which the one with less powerful warriors has a better rating. Therefore, the best assumption is that a universe's rating is based on quality of life, not power, which would render your disagreements null.
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Re: Power Gap Between Goku & Others Closing...Not Good for DBS?

Post by Simere » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:23 am

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:Your premise hinges on the assumption that a universe's rating is based on power levels, but the state of Universe 9 paints a different picture. It's not a universe full of weaklings, but one of chaos. There's also the case of the U6/U7 pair, in which the one with less powerful warriors has a better rating. Therefore, the best assumption is that a universe's rating is based on quality of life, not power, which would render your disagreements null.
His point about the mortal rating is wrong, but he didn't build his argument around it. He would have reached a different conclusion if he did: higher rating = more God level fighters.

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Re: Power Gap Between Goku & Others Closing...Not Good for DBS?

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:38 am

Simere wrote:His point about the mortal rating is wrong, but he didn't build his argument around it. He would have reached a different conclusion if he did: higher rating = more God level fighters.
What? That is half of what his argument is built on! It doesn't make sense that U7 has so many god-tier fighters because its power level should be lower. The other point is that the fights might be lopsided, but it's hardly even a relevant concern. Assuming the direction goes well, we know they won't be.
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Re: Power Gap Between Goku & Others Closing...Not Good for DBS?

Post by Simere » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:50 am

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
Simere wrote:His point about the mortal rating is wrong, but he didn't build his argument around it. He would have reached a different conclusion if he did: higher rating = more God level fighters.
What? That is half of what his argument is built on! It doesn't make sense that U7 has so many god-tier fighters because its power level should be lower. The other point is that the fights might be lopsided, but it's hardly even a relevant concern. Assuming the direction goes well, we know they won't be.
It was just a small aside to the whole of what he was saying. He shouldn't have even said it when he did because it makes no contextual sense there. His argument is simply based on the assumption that the other universes won't be fielding many, if any, God tier fighters. And he's basing that on nothing but a feeling.

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Re: Power Gap Between Goku & Others Closing...Not Good for DBS?

Post by Rhuagh » Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:52 am

About Gohan.

At the end of the Buu Saga he was vastly more powerful than Goku(SSJ3), there was no comparison really. It was not until Battle of Gods that Gohan started to lose his power and Goku pulled ahead with a new transformation. Now he got his power back, and you would rather have him be on par with Cabba, a new SSJ and the second weakest of his universe?

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Re: Power Gap Between Goku & Others Closing...Not Good for DBS?

Post by TysonWine » Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:51 am

You're speaking from a perspective that's biased towards Universe 7. There's nothing wrong with that, and I understand why you would think that way. We've watched the fighters of Universe 7 grow from what we've been told to consider weaklings to what we've been told to consider the pinnacle of power. Our bias makes us go, "All that Goku's been through and now he's a GOD. There's no way anyone could've experienced the hardships and endured the training that he has!" That's our perspective. The other universes likely feel the same way.

It would not be bad writing if Universe 7 struggles in the TOP, because we don't know the trials and tribulations of the other universes. Who's to say Universe 2 doesn't have a room of spirit and time where one day = 10 years and the Gods sent their fighters there before the tournament? I see people upset over the idea that Vegeta losses to Brianne, and I'm like why. We don't know how strong she is.

The addition of Frieza appears to have turned Universe 7 into an unstoppable powerhouse, but we'll just have to wait and see. Personally, I hope the tournament is competitive. I don't want a repeat of the Champa arc where every universe is fodder except for one person. Who knows, Gohan and 17 may need that strength you find to be overpowered.

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Re: Power Gap Between Goku & Others Closing...Not Good for DBS?

Post by TheMikado » Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:13 am

Simere wrote:
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
Simere wrote:His point about the mortal rating is wrong, but he didn't build his argument around it. He would have reached a different conclusion if he did: higher rating = more God level fighters.
What? That is half of what his argument is built on! It doesn't make sense that U7 has so many god-tier fighters because its power level should be lower. The other point is that the fights might be lopsided, but it's hardly even a relevant concern. Assuming the direction goes well, we know they won't be.
It was just a small aside to the whole of what he was saying. He shouldn't have even said it when he did because it makes no contextual sense there. His argument is simply based on the assumption that the other universes won't be fielding many, if any, God tier fighters. And he's basing that on nothing but a feeling.
Correct, his actual premise is pertaining to the shortening of the power scale.

I.e if Base Goku (after absorbing God power (if this is even the case (AND it has not been retconned))) should be millions of times stronger than same Krillin or hundreds of times stronger than Gohan, how did everyone catch up so quickly. Further it reduces strength of the Gods of Destruction by Proxy. His main point is that if base Goku can fight Beerus, and Beerus is not hundreds of times stronger than Goku, and if characters like Califla and Kale are going up against characters that rival Gods then they are also in the same realm of power and it makes you ask Why and How are so many fighters this strong. Whis told Goku and Vegeta that working together they could probably take down Beerus back in the RoF arc. They are several times stronger now and Goku with SSBx KK should be more than able to take out Beerus on his own. Basically, how strong is everyone supposed to be where they are relative to each other?

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Re: Power Gap Between Goku & Others Closing...Not Good for DBS?

Post by Whatever » Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:01 am

KingKaash wrote:For years, many of us fans have complained that Goku has left the rest of the Z Fighters in the dust when it comes to reaching new power levels and transformations. Any human had no chance. Gohan peaked in the Cell Saga only to lose the lead back to Goku and reach terrible lows. And Vegeta has always been the #2 guy in the DB franchise behind Goku.

But in this Universal Survival Arc things have changed. The gap between Goku and a few of the other characters has actually shortened considerably. The list of people who can push Goku to SSJB or KKSSJB has grown to Vegeta, Golden Frieza, Ultimate Gohan and Android 17. That means there are now 5 total characters who I would classify in the "God power tier" including Goku himself, again meaning that they can push Goku to fight in SSJB form.

So how is this a bad thing? Well, first it was stated that U7 had one of the lowest power levels among all mortals that inhabit that Universe. That's fine and dandy but then how do they have 5 characters in the "God power tier?" The reason I bring this up and why I ultimately think it could be a bad thing is because of my next point. How many other Universes have 5 "God power tier" characters? From all the characters we know so far only Hit, Toppo and Jiren can push Goku to SSJB. I don't think Dyspo, General Casseral, Cabba or Brianne can bring about the full power of the "God power tier" characters I've listed. Caulifla and Kale are unknowns at this point.

So we have a superteam here in U7 with 5 "God power tier" characters while the rest of the seven Universes participating only have 3 such characters in total. Will they make new strong characters to match this tier? I sure hope so. Because otherwise this tournament will be pretty lopsided considering the power that the superteam Universe 7 possesses.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to see characters like my favorite Gohan get a significant power boost and become relevant again. But does the opposition really have characters to match the power that these 5 have displayed in these episodes leading up to the ToP. If not, the Tournament won't be much fun or won't make much sense. I personally believe the right thing to have done was to make Gohan and Android 17 on midlevel power and not all the way up to Goku and Vegeta's level. That way a fight between possibly Gohan and Cabba or Android 17 and General Casseral would've been more compelling. Because at this point, I think Gohan and Android 17 are way stronger Cabba and Casseral. Same even goes for a possible Frieza vs Frost fight.

What are your thoughts?
First of Gohan was even with ssj2 goku and goku fought full power because he was asked so gohan is not god tier.
Frieza was dead for many years and reached god level in the last year and he lived 4 months before dying again.So there are only 2 people(that are alive)that can push goku.Also outside of Cabba we have not seen the power of the fighters you mentioned so you cannot be sure,in fact Brianne is implied(by the focus and promotion she got)to be the powerhouse of her universe so its very likely(although not surely) she is god tier as well.

Although most of the characters got a very big boost considering base goku and vegeta in rof were much stronger than anyone in universe 7 bar 17(which we had not seen yet).But i think its a good thing considering how many forms goku has its kind of pathetic for everyone to be that much weaker than him in base form like in rof,if you are wondering about the strength of the opponents don't worry,there are a lot of unknowns so they can easily write them in any level of power they see fit or make up for it in abilities,for example if it was a death match with no rings out Botamo could beat anyone including Goku and Jirren lol.

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Re: Power Gap Between Goku & Others Closing...Not Good for DBS?

Post by ChaosLordBrandon » Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:04 am

TheMikado wrote:
Simere wrote:
Jinzoningen MULE wrote: What? That is half of what his argument is built on! It doesn't make sense that U7 has so many god-tier fighters because its power level should be lower. The other point is that the fights might be lopsided, but it's hardly even a relevant concern. Assuming the direction goes well, we know they won't be.
It was just a small aside to the whole of what he was saying. He shouldn't have even said it when he did because it makes no contextual sense there. His argument is simply based on the assumption that the other universes won't be fielding many, if any, God tier fighters. And he's basing that on nothing but a feeling.
Correct, his actual premise is pertaining to the shortening of the power scale.

I.e if Base Goku (after absorbing God power (if this is even the case (AND it has not been retconned))) should be millions of times stronger than same Krillin or hundreds of times stronger than Gohan, how did everyone catch up so quickly. Further it reduces strength of the Gods of Destruction by Proxy. His main point is that if base Goku can fight Beerus, and Beerus is not hundreds of times stronger than Goku, and if characters like Califla and Kale are going up against characters that rival Gods then they are also in the same realm of power and it makes you ask Why and How are so many fighters this strong. Whis told Goku and Vegeta that working together they could probably take down Beerus back in the RoF arc. They are several times stronger now and Goku with SSBx KK should be more than able to take out Beerus on his own. Basically, how strong is everyone supposed to be where they are relative to each other?
That was only for rof movie. that was never even remotely even suggested in the rof super arc.

Infact what whis said about goku power to beerus in that arc was that goku would be a small tree and Beerus would be a huge castle.

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Re: Power Gap Between Goku & Others Closing...Not Good for DBS?

Post by ChaosLordBrandon » Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:09 am

Whatever wrote:
KingKaash wrote:For years, many of us fans have complained that Goku has left the rest of the Z Fighters in the dust when it comes to reaching new power levels and transformations. Any human had no chance. Gohan peaked in the Cell Saga only to lose the lead back to Goku and reach terrible lows. And Vegeta has always been the #2 guy in the DB franchise behind Goku.

But in this Universal Survival Arc things have changed. The gap between Goku and a few of the other characters has actually shortened considerably. The list of people who can push Goku to SSJB or KKSSJB has grown to Vegeta, Golden Frieza, Ultimate Gohan and Android 17. That means there are now 5 total characters who I would classify in the "God power tier" including Goku himself, again meaning that they can push Goku to fight in SSJB form.

So how is this a bad thing? Well, first it was stated that U7 had one of the lowest power levels among all mortals that inhabit that Universe. That's fine and dandy but then how do they have 5 characters in the "God power tier?" The reason I bring this up and why I ultimately think it could be a bad thing is because of my next point. How many other Universes have 5 "God power tier" characters? From all the characters we know so far only Hit, Toppo and Jiren can push Goku to SSJB. I don't think Dyspo, General Casseral, Cabba or Brianne can bring about the full power of the "God power tier" characters I've listed. Caulifla and Kale are unknowns at this point.

So we have a superteam here in U7 with 5 "God power tier" characters while the rest of the seven Universes participating only have 3 such characters in total. Will they make new strong characters to match this tier? I sure hope so. Because otherwise this tournament will be pretty lopsided considering the power that the superteam Universe 7 possesses.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to see characters like my favorite Gohan get a significant power boost and become relevant again. But does the opposition really have characters to match the power that these 5 have displayed in these episodes leading up to the ToP. If not, the Tournament won't be much fun or won't make much sense. I personally believe the right thing to have done was to make Gohan and Android 17 on midlevel power and not all the way up to Goku and Vegeta's level. That way a fight between possibly Gohan and Cabba or Android 17 and General Casseral would've been more compelling. Because at this point, I think Gohan and Android 17 are way stronger Cabba and Casseral. Same even goes for a possible Frieza vs Frost fight.

What are your thoughts?
First of Gohan was even with ssj2 goku and goku fought full power because he was asked so gohan is not god tier.
Frieza was dead for many years and reached god level in the last year and he lived 4 months before dying again.So there are only 2 people(that are alive)that can push goku.Also outside of Cabba we have not seen the power of the fighters you mentioned so you cannot be sure,in fact Brianne is implied(by the focus and promotion she got)to be the powerhouse of her universe so its very likely(although not surely) she is god tier as well.

Although most of the characters got a very big boost considering base goku and vegeta in rof were much stronger than anyone in universe 7 bar 17(which we had not seen yet).But i think its a good thing considering how many forms goku has its kind of pathetic for everyone to be that much weaker than him in base form like in rof,if you are wondering about the strength of the opponents don't worry,there are a lot of unknowns so they can easily write them in any level of power they see fit or make up for it in abilities,for example if it was a death match with no rings out Botamo could beat anyone including Goku and Jirren lol.
This really they have no problems at all making the new characters strong. People are crazy if they think the only non u7 ssb characters will be Toppo,Hit and Jiren.

That pink girl will be ssb level to, and some others.

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Re: Power Gap Between Goku & Others Closing...Not Good for DBS?

Post by KingKaash » Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:24 pm

Simere wrote:
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
Simere wrote:His point about the mortal rating is wrong, but he didn't build his argument around it. He would have reached a different conclusion if he did: higher rating = more God level fighters.
What? That is half of what his argument is built on! It doesn't make sense that U7 has so many god-tier fighters because its power level should be lower. The other point is that the fights might be lopsided, but it's hardly even a relevant concern. Assuming the direction goes well, we know they won't be.
It was just a small aside to the whole of what he was saying. He shouldn't have even said it when he did because it makes no contextual sense there. His argument is simply based on the assumption that the other universes won't be fielding many, if any, God tier fighters. And he's basing that on nothing but a feeling.
I shouldn't have mentioned the entire Universe rating because it is not central to my point. But I'm not basing that on feeling. To my count, only Hit, Toppo and Jiren can fight on that God tier against the likes of Goku. I see many people saying that they can write new characters in and I think that is based on feeling actually. I sure hope they do. But it would’ve been more beneficial for the writers to have spent more time showcasing other fighters in other Universes on this kind of tier. It's bad writing to try and establish a threat in the midst of an all-out battle royale with so much going on
Whatever wrote:First of Gohan was even with ssj2 goku and goku fought full power because he was asked so gohan is not god tier.
Frieza was dead for many years and reached god level in the last year and he lived 4 months before dying again.So there are only 2 people(that are alive)that can push goku.Also outside of Cabba we have not seen the power of the fighters you mentioned so you cannot be sure,in fact Brianne is implied(by the focus and promotion she got)to be the powerhouse of her universe so its very likely(although not surely) she is god tier as well.

Although most of the characters got a very big boost considering base goku and vegeta in rof were much stronger than anyone in universe 7 bar 17(which we had not seen yet).But i think its a good thing considering how many forms goku has its kind of pathetic for everyone to be that much weaker than him in base form like in rof,if you are wondering about the strength of the opponents don't worry,there are a lot of unknowns so they can easily write them in any level of power they see fit or make up for it in abilities,for example if it was a death match with no rings out Botamo could beat anyone including Goku and Jirren lol.
Well Gohan took a hit from SSJB Goku and held his ground instead of being completely overpowered so I think it's safe to say Gohan is on the Goku/Vegeta God tier now.

Also I see SSJ Vegeta struggling with Brianne in the promo but if Vegeta goes SSJB and immediately crushes Brianne (like Vegeta did to Cabba in the Champa arc) then that also makes it a lopsided bad fight. Again I hope there are new characters that pose a threat
TysonWine wrote:You're speaking from a perspective that's biased towards Universe 7. There's nothing wrong with that, and I understand why you would think that way. We've watched the fighters of Universe 7 grow from what we've been told to consider weaklings to what we've been told to consider the pinnacle of power. Our bias makes us go, "All that Goku's been through and now he's a GOD. There's no way anyone could've experienced the hardships and endured the training that he has!" That's our perspective. The other universes likely feel the same way.

It would not be bad writing if Universe 7 struggles in the TOP, because we don't know the trials and tribulations of the other universes. Who's to say Universe 2 doesn't have a room of spirit and time where one day = 10 years and the Gods sent their fighters there before the tournament? I see people upset over the idea that Vegeta losses to Brianne, and I'm like why. We don't know how strong she is.

The addition of Frieza appears to have turned Universe 7 into an unstoppable powerhouse, but we'll just have to wait and see. Personally, I hope the tournament is competitive. I don't want a repeat of the Champa arc where every universe is fodder except for one person. Who knows, Gohan and 17 may need that strength you find to be overpowered.
Yes that's what I'm worried about is that Universe 7 now has five All-Stars that have made them into an unstoppable force while no other universe has five. And yes exactly the Champa Arc really only had Hit. I thought Magetta and Cabba were well done fights but if Goku and Vegeta are fighting in SSJ then those guys weren't real threats.

Not to say I want Goku, Vegeta, Frieza, Android 17 and Gohan to jump all the way to the max from the start. I know that won't happen. But the tension is really there when someone is fighting on the tier those guys are at
"Gohan, let it go. It is not a sin to fight for the right cause. There are those who words alone will not reach. Cell is such a being. I know how you feel Gohan, you are gentle, you do not like to hurt. I know because I too have learned these feelings. But it is because you cherish life that you must protect it. Please drop your restraints. Protect the life I once loved. You have the strength, my scanners sensed it..." -Android 16

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Re: Power Gap Between Goku & Others Closing...Not Good for DBS?

Post by Almighty Majin » Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:41 pm

Well so far the god tier fighters from the other universes are:

U6:
Hit

U9:
Bergamo

U11:
Jiren
Toppo

As far as possibilities for other fighters go, I think:

U2:
Brianne

U3:
Nigrisshi
Narirama

U6:
Kale
Frost

U11:
Dyspo
Kahseral

These fighters seem to be the ones who have been shown off the most before the tournament perhaps for the sake of hype. The U10 fighters look like they're going to job hard so they probably won't be god level except for maybe Murichim who will be fighting Toppo I think. It also doesn't look like any of the U4 fighters that are known for now are going to be god level (the spy and the bug guy).

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Re: Power Gap Between Goku & Others Closing...Not Good for DBS?

Post by KingKaash » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:09 pm

Almighty Majin wrote:Well so far the god tier fighters from the other universes are:

U9:
Bergamo
I had a feeling someone would mention Bergamo. To me, Bergamo just matches the power of the fighter he is fighting. In that case, if he's fighting Krillin then he is as strong as Krillin. Then if Krillin manages to use a tricky technique like a Solar Flare to blind Bergamo and knock him out, then Bergamo isn't even close to God tier
"Gohan, let it go. It is not a sin to fight for the right cause. There are those who words alone will not reach. Cell is such a being. I know how you feel Gohan, you are gentle, you do not like to hurt. I know because I too have learned these feelings. But it is because you cherish life that you must protect it. Please drop your restraints. Protect the life I once loved. You have the strength, my scanners sensed it..." -Android 16

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Re: Power Gap Between Goku & Others Closing...Not Good for DBS?

Post by Almighty Majin » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:32 pm

KingKaash wrote:
Almighty Majin wrote:Well so far the god tier fighters from the other universes are:

U9:
Bergamo
I had a feeling someone would mention Bergamo. To me, Bergamo just matches the power of the fighter he is fighting. In that case, if he's fighting Krillin then he is as strong as Krillin. Then if Krillin manages to use a tricky technique like a Solar Flare to blind Bergamo and knock him out, then Bergamo isn't even close to God tier
Yeah, I agree. I meant that Bergamo is god level when he fights a god level opponent so he kinda counts.

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Re: Power Gap Between Goku & Others Closing...Not Good for DBS?

Post by Zagacious » Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:06 pm

We definitely want other side characters to be relevant, like Piccolo,Gohan, and even some of the humans, but their relevance and the way they become relevant power-wise needs to make sense. It'd be a terrible thing to have Goku just be way overpowering everyone all the time like he was in DBZ, but it's a worse thing to have the power levels and results of peoples' training not make any sense at all. For example, Krillin is shown struggling fighting against regular humans, they made it seem like he regressed back to being weaker than he was even before DBZ, and then suddenly he is sparring with SSB Goku after a couple days of training. Now everyone knows he was holding back, but still these kind of choices can make things like power impossible to judge, and for a series that revolves mostly around fighting and getting stronger it's not good if we can't get at least a general idea of someone's abilities/skills in relation to another, or the feeling of 'improving' or 'surpassing' their own power doesn't have any sort of reward or feeling behind it beyond confusion.

Now for the new characters, it's not surprising a few of them are around SS3 level or a little beyond, but SSB power should be a rarity. The reason being it's unlikely that there would really be that many beings strong enough to blow up planets. If there was, there would be so much destruction that it seems unlikely they would develop technologically or even civilized at all if you have beings who are essentially stronger than Frieza was in Namek saga just walking around everywhere. Part of this is due to power creep. This is their universe and anything can happen, but to me it just doesn't make sense to have that many planet buster level people just walking around casually.

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Re: Power Gap Between Goku & Others Closing...Not Good for DBS?

Post by Whatever » Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:53 pm

KingKaash wrote:

Well Gohan took a hit from SSJB Goku and held his ground instead of being completely overpowered so I think it's safe to say Gohan is on the Goku/Vegeta God tier now.

Also I see SSJ Vegeta struggling with Brianne in the promo but if Vegeta goes SSJB and immediately crushes Brianne (like Vegeta did to Cabba in the Champa arc) then that also makes it a lopsided bad fight. Again I hope there are new characters that pose a threat
Well gohan was even with ssj2 goku and was begging him to go full power(unlike against 17 where goku himself felt he needed ssjb to deal with him),of course he did well against goku but i doubt he is god tier just because he landed 1 or 2 good hits on him.,well regardless of that.

For what its worth Brianne was included in the magazine as a fighter to look out for along with Jirren,for all we know she may been hiding some form or ability that makes her par on with ssjb,something like her equivalent of kaioken or time leap,or she may be holding like how toppo seemed inferior to ssjb goku because he was holding back.
Brianne aside as i said some characters most likely will have some abilities that make then on par with ssjb even if they are weaker.

Like Bergamo for example,if he plays his cards right he can gather enough strength to even surpass ssjb kaiokenx10 goku(i know that won't happen in the tournament but its possible he can do that in theory).

Or they can go for it the lazy way and have kaulifla achieve ssjb lol.

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Re: Power Gap Between Goku & Others Closing...Not Good for DBS?

Post by JigSaw910 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:01 am

Whatever wrote:
KingKaash wrote:

Well Gohan took a hit from SSJB Goku and held his ground instead of being completely overpowered so I think it's safe to say Gohan is on the Goku/Vegeta God tier now.

Also I see SSJ Vegeta struggling with Brianne in the promo but if Vegeta goes SSJB and immediately crushes Brianne (like Vegeta did to Cabba in the Champa arc) then that also makes it a lopsided bad fight. Again I hope there are new characters that pose a threat
Well gohan was even with ssj2 goku and was begging him to go full power(unlike against 17 where goku himself felt he needed ssjb to deal with him),of course he did well against goku but i doubt he is god tier just because he landed 1 or 2 good hits on him.,well regardless of that.

For what its worth Brianne was included in the magazine as a fighter to look out for along with Jirren,for all we know she may been hiding some form or ability that makes her par on with ssjb,something like her equivalent of kaioken or time leap,or she may be holding like how toppo seemed inferior to ssjb goku because he was holding back.
Brianne aside as i said some characters most likely will have some abilities that make then on par with ssjb even if they are weaker.

Like Bergamo for example,if he plays his cards right he can gather enough strength to even surpass ssjb kaiokenx10 goku(i know that won't happen in the tournament but its possible he can do that in theory).

Or they can go for it the lazy way and have kaulifla achieve ssjb lol.
the problem with this is toei spent far too long on goku being in ssj2 fighting gohan. with that being said gohan also started to toss goku around in ssj2 and stood his ground with blue(how short it might be). To end this debate i personally see gohan getting stronger throughout the fight. He could of been on goku ssj2 level at the beginning, but untapped more of his potential as the fight went on...like his father does. Their are many evidences that back up my claim but I'm going to just wait until he fights someone worthwhile in the tournament. i have a feeling he will be the last one left along with vegeta

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Re: Power Gap Between Goku & Others Closing...Not Good for DBS?

Post by Lionel » Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:52 pm

You want rationality in these power jumps? Make a cohesive streamlined sequence of events whereby such increases would hold some quantifiable merit. They could have written Tenshinhan, Krillin, and Roshi as having requested to be trained by Whis. Somehow they acquire God Ki (it isn't exclusive to just Saiyans) and from there on out the flood gates have been opened for them to once again make inroads within the upper echelon of fighters. Also, maybe having them actually learn some of these invaluable techniques that help amplify their power like the Kaioken could help. Seriously, it's one of the longest, most tensely discussed hypothetical scenarios for allowing the humans to remain relevant and apparently this concept has never clicked in the minds of anyone at the studio for some reason. It wouldn't make sense for them to be trading blows with SSJB Goku or Vegeta, true, but being able to hold their own against SSJ2 using God Ki empowered Kaioken x20 (post-Whis training) doesn't sound unreasonable.

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Re: Power Gap Between Goku & Others Closing...Not Good for DBS?

Post by gofishus » Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:44 pm

Zagacious wrote:We definitely want other side characters to be relevant, like Piccolo,Gohan, and even some of the humans, but their relevance and the way they become relevant power-wise needs to make sense. It'd be a terrible thing to have Goku just be way overpowering everyone all the time like he was in DBZ, but it's a worse thing to have the power levels and results of peoples' training not make any sense at all. For example, Krillin is shown struggling fighting against regular humans, they made it seem like he regressed back to being weaker than he was even before DBZ, and then suddenly he is sparring with SSB Goku after a couple days of training. Now everyone knows he was holding back, but still these kind of choices can make things like power impossible to judge, and for a series that revolves mostly around fighting and getting stronger it's not good if we can't get at least a general idea of someone's abilities/skills in relation to another, or the feeling of 'improving' or 'surpassing' their own power doesn't have any sort of reward or feeling behind it beyond confusion.

Now for the new characters, it's not surprising a few of them are around SS3 level or a little beyond, but SSB power should be a rarity. The reason being it's unlikely that there would really be that many beings strong enough to blow up planets. If there was, there would be so much destruction that it seems unlikely they would develop technologically or even civilized at all if you have beings who are essentially stronger than Frieza was in Namek saga just walking around everywhere. Part of this is due to power creep. This is their universe and anything can happen, but to me it just doesn't make sense to have that many planet buster level people just walking around casually.
Planet busting isn't a god tier skill. Heck even Nappa and Vegeta were able to bust planets at the beginning of DBZ

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