Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

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Bullza
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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by Bullza » Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:04 am

TheOne wrote:This isn't Naruto where everyone becomes a good guy by the end.
Yamcha
Tien
Piccolo
Vegeta
Android 17
Android 18
Buu

They all went good, amongst others. It's just like Naruto.

That aside I never said anything about Frieza becoming a good guy, that'd ruin him entirety. There's nothing wrong with having one unexpected good moment though.

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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by dragon boss z » Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:26 am

Bullza wrote:
TheOne wrote:This isn't Naruto where everyone becomes a good guy by the end.
Yamcha
Tien
Piccolo
Vegeta
Android 17
Android 18
Buu

They all went good, amongst others. It's just like Naruto.

That aside I never said anything about Frieza becoming a good guy, that'd ruin him entirety. There's nothing wrong with having one unexpected good moment though.
If you count filler then Dabura too

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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by GreatSaiyaJeff » Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:57 am

I don't want Freeza to become good, that would undermine his entire history in the franchise. I would like him to become kind of a minor antagonist of this arc. Nothing that makes him over shadow the real threat but still has enough presence where he needs to be put in his place.
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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by precita » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:20 am

Bullza wrote:
TheOne wrote:This isn't Naruto where everyone becomes a good guy by the end.
Yamcha
Tien
Piccolo
Vegeta
Android 17
Android 18
Buu
.
The difference is Freeza is pure evil. He's not supposed to be redeemed.

Yamcha was just a desert bandit, and Tenshinhan was just an assassin. This stuff was common in Japan back in the old days. Piccolo was never as truly evil as his father and never did anything bad in his entire time before the Saiyans came, 17 and 18 were never really evil either, and Buu blatantly had all the evil expelled out of him into a different person.

The closest you have here is Vegeta, and there was quite a lot of reasoning behind his eventual changing sides.

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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by Bullza » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:36 am

precita wrote:Piccolo was never as truly evil as his father and never did anything bad in his entire time before the Saiyans came
Piccolo was practically the same character as his father. He was just a clone with all his memories and even referred to the things King Piccolo did in the first person. Tien said that Piccolo Jr used to be the Demon King too.

It'd be more accurate to say he didn't do anything evil in that particular body but that's because he trained the whole time.

In the end he came across Raditz, realised he was no match for him, acknowledged Goku's power and worked with him properly in order to defeat Raditz which they did.

Frieza could do that.

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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by precita » Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:15 am

Piccolo's personality was still completely different than his father. Had he truly been the same person reborn, he would have immediately went out of the way to conquer the world in the same fashion, spewing forth little demons if he could do that. He had the memories of his father of course, and did plan to kill Goku and take over the world, but he never went around killing people and didn't cause any harm to the world in the 4 year span between Dragonball to DBZ.

And even then, I can't understand why you want Freeza to have a similar moment. Freeza is supposed to be THE villain. He doesn't need a heroic or redeeming moment. He's sadistic and they reinforced that with his return episode immediately turning on Goku, and he would have finished him had Beerus not shown up. We also now have Freeza conspiring to overthrow Beerus and Zeno.

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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by Lionel » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:05 am

Freeza doesn't need to voluntarily reform himself. If Goku and the others were truly committed to seeing him become non-aggressive, they could always lobotomise him. Render him into a harmless passive state. If they or his caretakers feel that more insurance should be offered then dismember the tyrant. Take away his appendages. Should his eyes still be usable as weapons, remove those as well. You can have the galactic patrol tend to him then, maybe even have him pay for his crimes in the legal context.

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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:00 pm

Yes, but only because the reaction would be hilarious.
Retired.

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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by Snakeway Skywalker » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:30 pm

A "heroic moment"? Sure. But going good or becoming a member of the Z Fighter family like Tien, Piccolo, 18, Buu and Beerus? No way. On one hand, I really want them to do something interesting with Frieza. Otherwise, why else bring back the character? I wouldn't expect anything sacrificial or really heroic from Frieza, because they haven't pointed him in that direction at all yet, but say, he, Goku, and Gohan are the remaining U7 fighters vs Jiren. If Frieza steps in to save Goku from a certain attack, I could buy that, because he wants to be the one to beat Goku. If he's gonna have any sort of heroic moment, it has to be self-motivated, because he's such a selfish imp. He doesn't care in the least about teamwork or his own universe's survival.

And please don't have F go against his own team by taking out Gohan, Vegeta, or someone else. That wouldn't be unexpected.

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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by Lord Beerus » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:09 pm

I think it would be more appropriate for him to have anti-villain moment, and not exactly a full blown heroic moment.

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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:38 pm

KingKaash wrote:
Basako wrote:Maybe just to fool everyone and then betray all of them. They are not even hiding Freeza is as evil as always, with higher aspirations now.
And that's what makes RoF so unnecessary to me. In RoF, Frieza is shown to be genuinely afraid of Beerus the moment he sees that Beerus is watching his fight with Goku. And now all of a sudden Frieza is plotting to overthrow the ultimate God Zen-Oh? I personally like this ToP Frieza that wants to overthrow Zen-Oh because that feels like the real Frieza, the cruel conquering emperor.
He sees Zeno as a child/idiot so he probably feels he can manipulate him despite his power.
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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by Bullza » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:02 pm

precita wrote:Piccolo's personality was still completely different than his father. Had he truly been the same person reborn, he would have immediately went out of the way to conquer the world in the same fashion, spewing forth little demons if he could do that. He had the memories of his father of course, and did plan to kill Goku and take over the world, but he never went around killing people and didn't cause any harm to the world in the 4 year span between Dragonball to DBZ.
Well he was reborn very little, he probably didn't have the power of King Piccolo at the time nor had the power to successfully conquer the world while Goku was still around that's why he spent all of his training.

Then he wanted to kill Goku and take over the world. He lost again so spent more time training. Had he actually beaten Goku he would have killed everyone, he had no hesitation in doing that blast that eradicated everything on the island, some people had to have died in that explosion.

He was just like Frieza in Resurrection F in that he realised he had to train first before exacting revenge.
Freeza is supposed to be THE villain. He doesn't need a heroic or redeeming moment.
It'd be unexpected character development. Everyone expects him to act a certain way and Frieza seems like he's going to act that way, it'd be good if wasn't that straightforward.

I also think it'd be genuinely interesting to see Goku and Frieza work together and use team work to beat Jiren who both would realise is too strong for either of them alone.

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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by julianix » Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:03 am

To be honest let's go the opposite.. how about he has a scene that defines him for all time. I want him to torture Toppo, just completely take the desire to live right out of him. A moment that defines evil.

That's what I want out of freeza.

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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by Snakeway Skywalker » Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:47 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:I think it would be more appropriate for him to have anti-villain moment, and not exactly a full blown heroic moment.
That sounds more believable for the character. Vegeta had to have his far share of time as an anti-hero before his turn.

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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by KingKaash » Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:28 am

GodKaio-Ken wrote:
KingKaash wrote:
Basako wrote:Maybe just to fool everyone and then betray all of them. They are not even hiding Freeza is as evil as always, with higher aspirations now.
And that's what makes RoF so unnecessary to me. In RoF, Frieza is shown to be genuinely afraid of Beerus the moment he sees that Beerus is watching his fight with Goku. And now all of a sudden Frieza is plotting to overthrow the ultimate God Zen-Oh? I personally like this ToP Frieza that wants to overthrow Zen-Oh because that feels like the real Frieza, the cruel conquering emperor.
He sees Zeno as a child/idiot so he probably feels he can manipulate him despite his power.
I don't know if he wants to manipulate them. I think he wants to outright rule over them or eliminate them and rule himself. Didn't the translation say, "Someday I'll reign even over you Zeno-Oh"?
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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:14 am

KingKaash wrote:
GodKaio-Ken wrote:
KingKaash wrote:
And that's what makes RoF so unnecessary to me. In RoF, Frieza is shown to be genuinely afraid of Beerus the moment he sees that Beerus is watching his fight with Goku. And now all of a sudden Frieza is plotting to overthrow the ultimate God Zen-Oh? I personally like this ToP Frieza that wants to overthrow Zen-Oh because that feels like the real Frieza, the cruel conquering emperor.
He sees Zeno as a child/idiot so he probably feels he can manipulate him despite his power.
I don't know if he wants to manipulate them. I think he wants to outright rule over them or eliminate them and rule himself. Didn't the translation say, "Someday I'll reign even over you Zeno-Oh"?
How does that change what I said? Hes going to have to manipulate the Zenos to their own demise. He isnt overpowering them.
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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by KingKaash » Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:37 am

GodKaio-Ken wrote:
KingKaash wrote:
GodKaio-Ken wrote:
He sees Zeno as a child/idiot so he probably feels he can manipulate him despite his power.
I don't know if he wants to manipulate them. I think he wants to outright rule over them or eliminate them and rule himself. Didn't the translation say, "Someday I'll reign even over you Zeno-Oh"?
How does that change what I said? Hes going to have to manipulate the Zenos to their own demise. He isnt overpowering them.
When you say manipulate it sounds like you mean he'll trick these all-powerful beings with dirty tactics because of their childish behavior and rule over them. I'm saying the way he said it sounds like he will overpower them. Which is absolutely ridiculous because he can never reach whatever power the Zen-Ohs are at. But I doubt he can trick them with the Grand Priest there either. Therefore it made no sense for Frieza to think like this at all when he was shaking at the sight of Beerus in RoF. He's not even at Beerus level so he shouldn't even consider the Zen-Ohs
"Gohan, let it go. It is not a sin to fight for the right cause. There are those who words alone will not reach. Cell is such a being. I know how you feel Gohan, you are gentle, you do not like to hurt. I know because I too have learned these feelings. But it is because you cherish life that you must protect it. Please drop your restraints. Protect the life I once loved. You have the strength, my scanners sensed it..." -Android 16

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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by khazgore » Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:50 am

i would say yes.

if frieza was to betray u7, it would be really lame, cause everyone knows hes a big douchebag, everyone knows that. but betraying hes universe in a situation like this, is just to extreme.
as of now, frieza have been destroying-playing with weaker opponents and annihilating them.

i would really like if frieza ends up saving goku,vegeta or gohan during the later fights in the tournament sacrificing himself, tho i do doubt that would happen!

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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:01 am

KingKaash wrote:
GodKaio-Ken wrote:
KingKaash wrote:
I don't know if he wants to manipulate them. I think he wants to outright rule over them or eliminate them and rule himself. Didn't the translation say, "Someday I'll reign even over you Zeno-Oh"?
How does that change what I said? Hes going to have to manipulate the Zenos to their own demise. He isnt overpowering them.
When you say manipulate it sounds like you mean he'll trick these all-powerful beings with dirty tactics because of their childish behavior and rule over them. I'm saying the way he said it sounds like he will overpower them. Which is absolutely ridiculous because he can never reach whatever power the Zen-Ohs are at. But I doubt he can trick them with the Grand Priest there either. Therefore it made no sense for Frieza to think like this at all when he was shaking at the sight of Beerus in RoF. He's not even at Beerus level so he shouldn't even consider the Zen-Ohs
I get what youre saying now. Yeah it could be taken to mean that...I just see it as so implausible I dont think it was meant that way. I mean maybe it was just a cool Frieza line that means nothing outside his own head.

Maybe the Super Dragon Balls but I'm still hoping they dont impact Zeno.
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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:49 am

I don't think they'll ever make Freeza heroic. My guess is that if he does get permanently resurrected, a villain more powerful than or at least equal to the angels and the grand priest will have taken notice of Freeza during the ToP and will recruit him.

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