Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

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Deathbeam
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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by Deathbeam » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:53 pm

Nickolaidas wrote: Nah, I don't see him any more evil or scheming than he already is / was in the anime ToP. Also remember that it was only until UI Goku and Anilaza that Frieza displayed something other than pure malice. Manga has yet to go there.

We'll see. Frankly, as long as Frieza stays relevant, I don't really mind whether he becomes GoD candidate, an ally or an arch nemesis - I just don't want the guy to fade into obscurity as he did for so many years.

Guy has so much potential as a character - plot *and* development wise.
I agree about the potential, also under the "fighting" point of view.
However, if he is to become a nemesis again, he will disappear again after his demise. To me, it is incredibly better as an ambiguous ally. Or as a sort of vegeta-ish character, always caustic and sarcastic but no more a threat because there are other enemies to fight. Together.

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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by Lionel » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:01 pm

The only part of Freeza's personality that wasn't shrouded in complete darkness was the trust and respect he had for his father and Ginyu. How can you appeal to those minute inklings of sub-decency when the people in question are already deceased with no ounce of grief show by the tyrant? You're better off playing to Freeza's sense of self-preservation with Beerus keeping him in check -- the Hakaishin seems to be the only on whom Freeza fully recognises as his better (for the moment) without going off the deep. It probably has to do with the lack of ferocious bloodfeuding that's come to describe so much of Freeza's interactions with Goku.

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Deathbeam
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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by Deathbeam » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:53 pm

Yes but Ginew and King Cold belong to the past. Frieza has gone trough a LOT of things up to now. Maybe he has not changed and he will pay for that, as it happened in dbz and roF. But, maybe....

Again, my opinion is that he will meet the villain's fate.
Especially because after the ToP there will be no more enemies to fight with Goku and the others.

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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by Nickolaidas » Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:36 pm

Deathbeam wrote:Yes but Ginew and King Cold belong to the past. Frieza has gone trough a LOT of things up to now. Maybe he has not changed and he will pay for that, as it happened in dbz and roF. But, maybe....

Again, my opinion is that he will meet the villain's fate.
Especially because after the ToP there will be no more enemies to fight with Goku and the others.
Well, Toriyama already teased a long-awaited enemy for the heroes to face in the upcoming movie. Considering the fact that the movie will also have a focus on Frieza and the Saiyans back then, wouldn't it make sense for the villain to be a Buu-like foe that Frieza was afraid of in the past and met back then, and now in the present, the monster comes back and Frieza has - once more - a reason to join forces with Goku?

It's a long stretch, but ...

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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by Deathbeam » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:24 pm

For those of you who speak about a anti-hero or a new Z fighter, please forget it :problem:

Please remember:

Frieza betrayed Goku in episode 95 and hit him with Sidra's hakai no ki.
In the same episode Frieza thought to himself that the tournament will be perfect to manipulate the gods.
Alway in episode 95 Frieza tells us that his power boost derives from endless battle simulation of killing goku.
Frieza describes Zeno a colourful brat and wish to rule over him
He betrays Frost
He says that Goku, by winning, is working for him (this is REPEATED many times, ex. when Goku defeats Universe 2)
He defines as repulsive the relationship of master and servant between Vegeta and Cabba and shortly after throws off Cabba.
He tries to Supernova Kale and Caulifla and, shortly after, charges a death beam while goku is giving him his back.
He tries to double cross Dyspo.
He attacks Toppo from behind, sadistically laughing while doing hit so as Krillin defines him as "horrifyingly cruel"
He mocks Toppo, defining him "thrash"
When he is destroyed by Toppo, he tries to disintegrate him with a Supernova.
Similarly he goes for the kill agains Jiren

Again, WHO is going to be an anti-hero or become good?
To me, Frieza's fate will be so bad that (being his fan) I actually feel sorry for him :evil:

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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by Bullza » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:16 pm

Well he did team up with Goku. I'm not 100% sure but I would say the grudge is over with.

He's not going to be a good guy, he made it very clear he's still evil but he didn't betray them, he didn't up with them, he got revived and now he's gone off to do his own thing. That is exactly what I wanted from the start.

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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by Deathbeam » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:07 am

A very good ending indeed.

Freeza's character has been respected but he, despite his disdainful lines and his contempt towards other fighters, undoubtably changed and is now more akin to Vegeta during Cell saga.
He figured well in the battle and got out with his life.

I think that, if there will be a follow-up to dragon ball super, we will not see him anymore or, and that would be awesome, we would see him again as a sort of "evil support" to Goku and the other Z fighters.

I strongly hope that we will not see him again as a nemesis, it would be totally ridiculous.

Anyway: great job Toei.

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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by Majin Jator » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:56 am

Deathbeam wrote:
Freeza's character has been respected but he, despite his disdainful lines and his contempt towards other fighters, undoubtably changed and is now more akin to Vegeta during Cell saga.
He figured well in the battle and got out with his life.

I think that, if there will be a follow-up to dragon ball super, we will not see him anymore or, and that would be awesome, we would see him again as a sort of "evil support" to Goku and the other Z fighters.

I strongly hope that we will not see him again as a nemesis, it would be totally ridiculous.
He is probably going to be a reluctant ally in some of the next stories. I guess at some point he will come with a scheme of his own and be put back in hell, but I'm not sure about this; Toriyama seems more fond of the character nowadays than he ever was.

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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by Deathbeam » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:05 am

Majin Jator wrote: He is probably going to be a reluctant ally in some of the next stories. I guess at some point he will come with a scheme of his own and be put back in hell, but I'm not sure about this; Toriyama seems more fond of the character nowadays than he ever was.
I tend to exclude that he will be sent again to hell, although he will never turn good.

It would waste the strong message that Dragonball Super managed to convey by making Goku and his ex-arch nemesis cooperate in order to win and save Universe 7.

To me is more likely that the character will stay in the shadows in the future or will become a Z fighter all along with his particularly cunning style.

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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:14 am

Overall, I think how Freeza was handled in the Universal Survival arc has been the best the character has been handled since Namek. he remained true to his character while evolving in subtle and nuanced ways that not only provided great character moments for him and others interacting with him, but also fantastically dynamic battles with other opponents.

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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:01 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:Overall, I think how Freeza was handled in the Universal Survival arc has been the best the character has been handled since Namek. he remained true to his character while evolving in subtle and nuanced ways that not only provided great character moments for him and others interacting with him, but also fantastically dynamic battles with other opponents.
And to think everyone lost their shit when we found out he'd be participating!

I'd makes ResF plot so much more easier to digest if we see that movie as development for Freeza. It needed to happen to get Freeza to the where he was in this arc.

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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by The gr » Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:06 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote: I'd makes ResF plot so much more easier to digest if we see that movie as development for Freeza. It needed to happen to get Freeza to the where he was in this arc.
Rof in general doesn't feel pointless anymore thanks to this arc,UI and Golden Frieza.
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Re: Should Frieza have an heroic moment?

Post by Bullza » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:17 pm

Yeah people kinda criticised Resurrection F because it didn't seem to build to anything like Battle of Gods seemed to do with the mention of the other universes.

Now between the tease of Ultra Instinct and them bringing Frieza into the Tournament which was only done because he'd powered up drastically in the movie, it's actually added quite a lot going forward.

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