Goku needs to step up his game
Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff
Goku needs to step up his game
Goku, our beloved main character, has been losing too many of battles in Super. He still hasn't beaten a main villain/rival in 100 episodes of Super.
Now many people expect him to lose once again (to Jiren) so I ask you, should Goku win the tournament this time?
I personally want Goku to win this. I don't want to see a tie or some bullshit like Freezer catching Goku off-guard again to ring him out.
Just give me a hard, awesome battle between Goku and Jiren similar to that between Goku and Piccolo at the 23rd Budokai Tenkaichi.
Now many people expect him to lose once again (to Jiren) so I ask you, should Goku win the tournament this time?
I personally want Goku to win this. I don't want to see a tie or some bullshit like Freezer catching Goku off-guard again to ring him out.
Just give me a hard, awesome battle between Goku and Jiren similar to that between Goku and Piccolo at the 23rd Budokai Tenkaichi.
悟 “Vincit qui se vincit”
What I consider canonical
What I consider canonical
Spoiler:
Re: Goku needs to step up his game
Goku lost every fight he was in during DBZ too except a few:
Radditz: He basically lost and sacrificed himself to stop Radditz
Vegeta: He lost. Gohan, Krillin and Yajirobe defeat Vegeta
Captain Ginyu: He loses when he gets his body stolen
Freeza: His one win in the entire first half of the show
Android 19: He loses because of the heart virus
Cell: He stops fighting because he realizes he can't win
Cell Jr's: Gets his ass kicked
Yakon: His one other win since Freeza
Majin Vegeta: He loses, or rather Vegeta takes him out by surprise
Kid Buu: He wins, but only because of the Spirit Bomb and help from everyone else
So for the entire span of DBZ, Goku wins....twice? His only wins are against Freeza and Yakon. Maybe Kid Buu if you count it. So how is this any different than DBZ?
Radditz: He basically lost and sacrificed himself to stop Radditz
Vegeta: He lost. Gohan, Krillin and Yajirobe defeat Vegeta
Captain Ginyu: He loses when he gets his body stolen
Freeza: His one win in the entire first half of the show
Android 19: He loses because of the heart virus
Cell: He stops fighting because he realizes he can't win
Cell Jr's: Gets his ass kicked
Yakon: His one other win since Freeza
Majin Vegeta: He loses, or rather Vegeta takes him out by surprise
Kid Buu: He wins, but only because of the Spirit Bomb and help from everyone else
So for the entire span of DBZ, Goku wins....twice? His only wins are against Freeza and Yakon. Maybe Kid Buu if you count it. So how is this any different than DBZ?
Re: Goku needs to step up his game
I also wanted to mention how much Goku lost in DBZ but I mainly wanted to talk about Super.precita wrote:Goku lost every fight he was in during DBZ too except a few:
Radditz: He basically lost and sacrificed himself to stop Radditz
Vegeta: He lost. Gohan, Krillin and Yajirobe defeat Vegeta
Captain Ginyu: He loses when he gets his body stolen
Freeza: His one win in the entire first half of the show
Android 19: He loses because of the heart virus
Cell: He stops fighting because he realizes he can't win
Cell Jr's: Gets his ass kicked
Yakon: His one other win since Freeza
Majin Vegeta: He loses, or rather Vegeta takes him out by surprise
Kid Buu: He wins, but only because of the Spirit Bomb and help from everyone else
So for the entire span of DBZ, Goku wins....twice? His only wins are against Freeza and Yakon. Maybe Kid Buu if you count it. So how is this any different than DBZ?
So the odds Goku loses are very high. That's why I hope Goku finally starts to win a few main battles in a row so as to subvert expectations. Because if Goku beats Jiren, then everyone will expect him to lose next.
悟 “Vincit qui se vincit”
What I consider canonical
What I consider canonical
Spoiler:
- SansrivaaL
- I Live Here
- Posts: 3757
- Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:29 pm
- Location: Earth
Re: Goku needs to step up his game
For me no he doesnt necessary needs a win on his card to be awesome/badass, his character for some reason was built in a way that even when he loses it feels like he's won.
Especially in this arc, he doesnt need a clean final win and be the last man standing, rather he needs to be the MVP to get a wish, give that last man standing to Jiren,Freeza,Gohan,Vegeta or hell even Roshi or Tien, just give Goku the fucking "MVP" best fighter of the universe, he technically started this whole tournament so in a way its his responsibility, tho Vados and the slim kai already said its thanks to Goku that a universe gets to survive, I want him to leave no doubts to anyone with what he started made him look like an antagonist to some (honestly I wouldnt mind anti hero/blood knight Goku, but what he's done this arc rubs some people the wrong way)
Especially in this arc, he doesnt need a clean final win and be the last man standing, rather he needs to be the MVP to get a wish, give that last man standing to Jiren,Freeza,Gohan,Vegeta or hell even Roshi or Tien, just give Goku the fucking "MVP" best fighter of the universe, he technically started this whole tournament so in a way its his responsibility, tho Vados and the slim kai already said its thanks to Goku that a universe gets to survive, I want him to leave no doubts to anyone with what he started made him look like an antagonist to some (honestly I wouldnt mind anti hero/blood knight Goku, but what he's done this arc rubs some people the wrong way)
Re: Goku needs to step up his game
Goku beat Nappa who was responsible for everyone's deaths in the Saiyan saga. Does that not count?precita wrote:Goku lost every fight he was in during DBZ too except a few:
Radditz: He basically lost and sacrificed himself to stop Radditz
Vegeta: He lost. Gohan, Krillin and Yajirobe defeat Vegeta
Captain Ginyu: He loses when he gets his body stolen
Freeza: His one win in the entire first half of the show
Android 19: He loses because of the heart virus
Cell: He stops fighting because he realizes he can't win
Cell Jr's: Gets his ass kicked
Yakon: His one other win since Freeza
Majin Vegeta: He loses, or rather Vegeta takes him out by surprise
Kid Buu: He wins, but only because of the Spirit Bomb and help from everyone else
So for the entire span of DBZ, Goku wins....twice? His only wins are against Freeza and Yakon. Maybe Kid Buu if you count it. So how is this any different than DBZ?
He also beat Recoome in one punch who was man handling Vegeta, Krillin and Gohan solo, as well as Burter and I'm not even sure if I'd count Ginyu as a loss since it was his quick thinking that ended getting Ginyu to be a frog until Super. Technical win?
Not sure what Fat Buu counts as. A draw?
Goku in Super has beaten Bergamo and Botamo, he technically gets the win on Golden Frieza too since he kills him. He's also responsible for defeating half Universe 9. If we count the filler he beat Copy Vegeta.
Goku defeating Jiren still feels likes a foregone conclusion tbh. I'll still be more shocked if he loses than if he wins.
Favourite User quote:
Vice wrote:"Look at all these characters getting some shine in the buildup for the tournament of power, maybe we'll get to see some other characters do some stuff instead of the same old shit."
1. Goku (Universe 7) has eliminated 6 competitor & Vegeta (Universe 7) has eliminated 6 competitors
"Fuck."
- Lord Beerus
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 21389
- Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:20 pm
- Location: A temple on a giant tree
- Contact:
Re: Goku needs to step up his game
It's never really been a big issue for me as to how many wins Goku notches under his belt. I personally get more enjoyment of the spectacle of the battles that Goku partakes in and not really whether he wins them or not.
Spoiler:
Re: Goku needs to step up his game
Canon wise,
Goku hasn't beaten anyone stronger than Namek saga Frieza using his own power?
Goku hasn't beaten anyone stronger than Namek saga Frieza using his own power?
-
- I Live Here
- Posts: 2326
- Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:00 pm
Re: Goku needs to step up his game
His power or not he beat Kid Buu. That means in 2/3 major Arcs he succeeded. 2 > 0
I dont see Buu as similar to ROF either.
Id love to see Goku win.
I dont see Buu as similar to ROF either.
Id love to see Goku win.
Last edited by GodKaio-Ken on Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Currently watching: My Hero Academia
Last watched: Akame Ga Kill, Hokuto No Ken, Hokuto No Ken 2, Hunter X Hunter
Quote if I were to Hakai someone: "Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru. Hakai!"
Last watched: Akame Ga Kill, Hokuto No Ken, Hokuto No Ken 2, Hunter X Hunter
Quote if I were to Hakai someone: "Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru. Hakai!"
Re: Goku needs to step up his game
What counts as canon within Super incidentally?Yedis wrote:Canon wise,
Goku hasn't beaten anyone stronger than Namek saga Frieza using his own power?
If the anime; Surely Bergamo counts? His ability pushes him to match Goku's many forms, all of which should be many times stronger than Namek arc Frieza.
Alternatively he defeats Zamasu in a duel in both the anime and the manga, whom is considered a genius amongst Kaioshins. Shin is said to be able to fell Namek Frieza in a single blow, and he's far below Zamasu's power.
Favourite User quote:
Vice wrote:"Look at all these characters getting some shine in the buildup for the tournament of power, maybe we'll get to see some other characters do some stuff instead of the same old shit."
1. Goku (Universe 7) has eliminated 6 competitor & Vegeta (Universe 7) has eliminated 6 competitors
"Fuck."
- Lord Frieza
- I Live Here
- Posts: 3801
- Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:36 pm
Re: Goku needs to step up his game
He beats people who are weaker then him from the get go unless something gets in the way. Yakon, Botamo, Zamasu and half of Team U9. But when it comes down to the big threats Goku's ending up in worse and worse situations.
As I've said before, in general...
In the DB era Goku was always stronger then the main threat and lose/started losing due to cheating or bad luck.
In the Z era Goku is faced with foes stronger them himself, forcing him to rely tactic, planning and teamwork to beat them. This is also when the power up ping-pong games started were everyone was outdoing each-other with transformations and fusion.
The Super ear......Its pure luck that Goku and Co are not dead already. Not only are the threats stronger but more often then not they are horrifically stronger, have hax abilities that put the heroes to shame or funniest of all use their own tactic against them. Beerus completely outclasses everything when he shows up SS dont work, the old fusion trick would not work and even SSG dose not cut it, they only survive because deep down Beerus is not a total dick. Frieza dose the very thing Goku has always done, he trains and because he's a true monster with tons of untapped potential he makes gains in power that put Goku to shame. Hit can improve in seconds were it would take Goku hours, days or even months and to top it off Goku's SSBKKx10 is not enough to beat him, worse we find out that Hit true abilities are being held back by the rules. Zamasu turns everything the heroes have relied upon in the past against them, abusing Time Travel, the Dragon Balls, Zenkai, New Transformations, Goku's Power and Fusion. It gets so bad that it takes Zen-Oh destroy a universe to finally stop him.
Basically Goku has needed a god or someone elses good will to bail him out in Super. His protects against Jiren look grim.
As I've said before, in general...
In the DB era Goku was always stronger then the main threat and lose/started losing due to cheating or bad luck.
In the Z era Goku is faced with foes stronger them himself, forcing him to rely tactic, planning and teamwork to beat them. This is also when the power up ping-pong games started were everyone was outdoing each-other with transformations and fusion.
The Super ear......Its pure luck that Goku and Co are not dead already. Not only are the threats stronger but more often then not they are horrifically stronger, have hax abilities that put the heroes to shame or funniest of all use their own tactic against them. Beerus completely outclasses everything when he shows up SS dont work, the old fusion trick would not work and even SSG dose not cut it, they only survive because deep down Beerus is not a total dick. Frieza dose the very thing Goku has always done, he trains and because he's a true monster with tons of untapped potential he makes gains in power that put Goku to shame. Hit can improve in seconds were it would take Goku hours, days or even months and to top it off Goku's SSBKKx10 is not enough to beat him, worse we find out that Hit true abilities are being held back by the rules. Zamasu turns everything the heroes have relied upon in the past against them, abusing Time Travel, the Dragon Balls, Zenkai, New Transformations, Goku's Power and Fusion. It gets so bad that it takes Zen-Oh destroy a universe to finally stop him.
Basically Goku has needed a god or someone elses good will to bail him out in Super. His protects against Jiren look grim.
Re: Goku needs to step up his game
He beat Mirai Trunks and Bergamo both with his own power. Unless you're talking about main antagonists.Yedis wrote:Canon wise,
Goku hasn't beaten anyone stronger than Namek saga Frieza using his own power?
It wouldn't really bother me whether Goku wins or loses here. Though, I would prefer if he won in this saga. Won't lose sleep if he didn't. Wasn't there like a post from Toyo sometime back saying that Goku wouldn't win this tournament? Didn't he say something like that?
Yeah, U7 hasn't had a clean win on a major antagonist since Boo. If Goku really is getting a new form/ascending to a new level, I'd love to see him pull out the win (in the fight), doesn't mean he has to win the tournament though.Lord Frieza wrote:He beats people who are weaker then him from the get go unless something gets in the way. Yakon, Botamo, Zamasu and half of Team U9. But when it comes down to the big threats Goku's ending up in worse and worse situations.
As I've said before, in general...
In the DB era Goku was always stronger then the main threat and lose/started losing due to cheating or bad luck.
In the Z era Goku is faced with foes stronger them himself, forcing him to rely tactic, planning and teamwork to beat them. This is also when the power up ping-pong games started were everyone was outdoing each-other with transformations and fusion.
The Super ear......Its pure luck that Goku and Co are not dead already. Not only are the threats stronger but more often then not they are horrifically stronger, have hax abilities that put the heroes to shame or funniest of all use their own tactic against them. Beerus completely outclasses everything when he shows up SS dont work, the old fusion trick would not work and even SSG dose not cut it, they only survive because deep down Beerus is not a total dick. Frieza dose the very thing Goku has always done, he trains and because he's a true monster with tons of untapped potential he makes gains in power that put Goku to shame. Hit can improve in seconds were it would take Goku hours, days or even months and to top it off Goku's SSBKKx10 is not enough to beat him, worse we find out that Hit true abilities are being held back by the rules. Zamasu turns everything the heroes have relied upon in the past against them, abusing Time Travel, the Dragon Balls, Zenkai, New Transformations, Goku's Power and Fusion. It gets so bad that it takes Zen-Oh destroy a universe to finally stop him.
Basically Goku has needed a god or someone elses good will to bail him out in Super. His protects against Jiren look grim.
- HybridSaiyan
- Advanced Regular
- Posts: 1113
- Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:18 pm
- Location: UK
Re: Goku needs to step up his game
He needs to step up his fighting game, yeah.
There's a difference in his martial arts, hand to hand combat, strategizing and tactics.
Maybe It's just Toei who've forgotten his fighting style. So far It's just been too repetitive.
I've not seen him do his trademark hands on the ground, booting his opponent upwards into the air yet or giving a serious injury.
There's a difference in his martial arts, hand to hand combat, strategizing and tactics.
Maybe It's just Toei who've forgotten his fighting style. So far It's just been too repetitive.
I've not seen him do his trademark hands on the ground, booting his opponent upwards into the air yet or giving a serious injury.
Re: Goku needs to step up his game
I feel like we saw Goku like things in his fights with Gohan, Toppo, and Hitto. Hell, that pirouette we saw him use on Basil was very Goku like too. I agree we need to see more of the Goku like things he does in a fight more often, but I feel we do see it.HybridSaiyan wrote:He needs to step up his fighting game, yeah.
There's a difference in his martial arts, hand to hand combat, strategizing and tactics.
Maybe It's just Toei who've forgotten his fighting style. So far It's just been too repetitive.
I've not seen him do his trademark hands on the ground, booting his opponent upwards into the air yet or giving a serious injury.