Frieza, 17 and Gohan

[Lapislettuce]

I expect #17 to not be killed when an ominous barrage of "fireworks" is hurtling towards him from the heavens. Those with the strength to boast effectiveness would have all been used unless some unorthodox circumstances were prohibiting them from contributing like Buu's slumber in the recent arcs.

Gohan's power has an explanatory reference point and precedence. He essentially multiplied his power by over a thousand at the beginning of Z. Everything about his character has alluded to a deeper rooted potential nestled under the surface of his meekish personality. Some time later in the Buu arc, Goku stated that Gohan was capable of defeating anyone if he harnessed his potential strength. In light of Super's new additions to the lore, he would likely require God Ki for this truth to still stand, but as said, there's at least some hint of rationality behind Gohan achieving rapid growth in power within such a short time frame. We weren't even aware of these "enhanced cells" of #17's prior to this arc. It was assumed that the infinite energy engine was the sole cause behind the cyborgs' inordinate strength -- i.e a mechanical device with technical limitations in its circuitry and power output.

Freeza? Little foundation exists as we aren't made aware of his personal background. If nothing else, his power was at least his own and not artificially obtained through cybernetic implants (prior to Super's "revelation"). #17 was likely nothing more than a glorified mischief maker prior to Gero's experimentations.

Also no one can sense 17's energy, it's already been established that he couldn't care less about the sake of earth.

[KingKaash]

This is an interesting topic. Let me preface by saying I'm a big Gohan fan, I personally like that Android 17 got a big power boost and is a capable fighter to watch now, and I was totally against the idea of Frieza coming back in place of Buu but now I'm on board after seeing how well Frieza is being written.

So I believe Gohan's makes the most sense only because he trained with Piccolo. I think an underlying point that no one noticed is that Gohan regaining his Ultimate form was more of a mental thing than physical fighting power. Piccolo toughened Gohan up mentally throughout their training and only then was Gohan able to reach deep down and unleash that Ultimate Gohan power potential again. Also remember that Gohan had the powers of Mystic/Ultimate unlocked by Elder Kai and then immediately took off to fight Majin Buu. So he didn't even have time with his Ultimate Form. So it's reasonable to believe that Gohan after getting mentally tougher to regain the Ultimate Form and then training in fighting with Piccolo (who I believe has also improved since the DBZ days) can become as strong as he currently is.

Frieza is a tricky one. He was already super strong as Golden Frieza and also ran off as soon as he attained this golden form. So Frieza did not train either mentally or physically in RoF. The major weakness of Golden Frieza was the amount of energy it took to sustain that form. And since he was in his Hell all locked up in a cocoon, all he could do was mentally train. They say the mental training helped resolve the energy usage and I think I can buy that. Again I feel like the mental aspect is often not remembered when we are trying to justify the power ups the DB characters get.

Android 17's power up makes the least sense. When you are an android that is physically superior to any poacher, you don't need to mentally or physically train. So I know nothing about the kind of training Android 17 put in to get that strong. Therefore, to me his ToP current power level makes very little sense to me. I'm happy he is that strong because then it's not just the Goku and Vegeta show but it's definitely not a reasonable power up in my opinion

[wolflonnie]

So I believe Gohan's makes the most sense only because he trained with Piccolo. I think an underlying point that no one noticed is that Gohan regaining his Ultimate form was more of a mental thing than physical fighting power. Piccolo toughened Gohan up mentally throughout their training and only then was Gohan able to reach deep down and unleash that Ultimate Gohan power potential again. Also remember that Gohan had the powers of Mystic/Ultimate unlocked by Elder Kai and then immediately took off to fight Majin Buu. So he didn't even have time with his Ultimate Form. So it's reasonable to believe that Gohan after getting mentally tougher to regain the Ultimate Form and then training in fighting with Piccolo (who I believe has also improved since the DBZ days) can become as strong as he currently is.

Also, in my opinion, he stacked all his trainings with Piccolo, & since he now has a better resolve than in the Majin Buu saga, he's far stronger overall. His problem was more of a mental one than anything, and we know that this is very important to one's ki.

[KingKaash]

So I believe Gohan's makes the most sense only because he trained with Piccolo. I think an underlying point that no one noticed is that Gohan regaining his Ultimate form was more of a mental thing than physical fighting power. Piccolo toughened Gohan up mentally throughout their training and only then was Gohan able to reach deep down and unleash that Ultimate Gohan power potential again. Also remember that Gohan had the powers of Mystic/Ultimate unlocked by Elder Kai and then immediately took off to fight Majin Buu. So he didn't even have time with his Ultimate Form. So it's reasonable to believe that Gohan after getting mentally tougher to regain the Ultimate Form and then training in fighting with Piccolo (who I believe has also improved since the DBZ days) can become as strong as he currently is.

Also, in my opinion, he stacked all his trainings with Piccolo, & since he now has a better resolve than in the Majin Buu saga, he's far stronger overall. His problem was more of a mental one than anything, and we know that this is very important to one's ki.

Yes exactly! This Ultimate Gohan is way different mentally than the Ultimate Gohan that faced Majin Buu and therefore way stronger.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Do we even know exactly how powerful Gohan was in the Buu Arc?

Since his blocks are all mental and he just toyed around with Buu is it possible he was always that strong and never tapped into it properly?

[julianix]

It all comes down to how you view the characters and how much you like/ root for them. Also people make have their own wishes on how they want the story/plot to unfold.

Like for example I have always said Buu is my favorite villain but Freeza is the best villain. Either one of them I will root and want to be relevant in the story.

[Akyon]

Honestly I can't say Gohan's doesn't make sense.
With the Saiyans becoming gods just by holding hands in a circle, it's hard for me not to believe any sort of activity at this point doesn't make them stronger.
Gohan's power bursts were a staple of Z, so the moment he bothered to do a push up in Super it's honestly not surprising he's capable of reaching God level. Being surprised a Saiyan has power gaining hax, particularly a hybrid one(remember they were stated to have greater potential to be stronger than full blooded saiyans) isn't a stretch.

Frieza's jump is pretty ridiculous and I remember thinking back when RoF was announced whether it was going to be Yamcha that defeated him this time since Namek arc Frieza's only really a potential rival to the humans in strength at that point. Four months was way too short, but okay at least we got an explaination.

I didn't even realise 17 WAS that strong at first since Goku was using SSB to test Krillin even in the previous episode. As far as I knew at the time Goku was just carefully controlling his God Ki to fight at 17's level.

So I'd probably say Gohan's was the least surprising of the three.