Why Android 17 Is BEAST (in the ToP)

[KingKaash]

For me, Android 17 put himself on the map when he went head-to-head with SSJB Goku and didn't seem to struggle much at all. At that point I knew he was legit.

His machine like personality only makes his overall character better. The writers are doing a great job displaying his personality and of course he's doing really well as a strong fighter. After Gohan, I'm most intrigued to see what Android 17 is going to do in the ToP. He's surpassed Vegeta in that regard for me because it seems Vegeta is not getting much attention for some reason.

[HybridSaiyan]

Weaker than imperfect Cell to being level with SSJ Blue.
Of course he'd be a beast. He was a beast In GT too.

[Kastex]

Weaker than imperfect Cell to being level with SSJ Blue.
Of course he'd be a beast. He was a beast In GT too.

i don't think he's anywhere near SSB.

[Lapislettuce]

Weaker than imperfect Cell to being level with SSJ Blue.
Of course he'd be a beast. He was a beast In GT too.

i don't think he's anywhere near SSB.

That's why he pushed Goku to ssb while he was holding back and fought on par with him.

[Kastex]

Weaker than imperfect Cell to being level with SSJ Blue.
Of course he'd be a beast. He was a beast In GT too.

i don't think he's anywhere near SSB.

That's why he pushed Goku to ssb while he was holding back and fought on par with him.

he didn't "push" goku to ssb. they were fighting pretty much on the same level when goku was using ss1 (yes, i know both of them were holding back, that's why the power they were using was roughly on the same level). if neither of them were overwhelming each other, then neither of them would be "pushed" to power up so much.

you have to keep in mind goku wasn't trying to stomp him out. it was clear that goku could tell he wasn't really trying, so he transformed to test his power. goku in ssb was fighting as a level where neither of them were using their full power, but it would still be a good test. that's why 17 was fighting on par with goku. i mean goku even used ssb against krillin and bergamo. the difference with krillin it's obvious krillin doesn't stand a chance, in which case goku could have erased him in less than a second if he wanted too. he holds back a lot using ssb most of the time.

i don't know about you, but it's very hard to believe that 17 could have fought beerus on a level higher than SSG goku did, or if they called him up to kick golden frieza's ass instead.

[Lapislettuce]

i don't think he's anywhere near SSB.

That's why he pushed Goku to ssb while he was holding back and fought on par with him.

he didn't "push" goku to ssb. they were fighting pretty much on the same level when goku was using ss1 (yes, i know both of them were holding back, that's why the power they were using was roughly on the same level). if neither of them were overwhelming each other, then neither of them would be "pushed" to power up so much.

you have to keep in mind goku wasn't trying to stomp him out. it was clear that goku could tell he wasn't really trying, so he transformed to test his power. goku in ssb was fighting as a level where neither of them were using their full power, but it would still be a good test. that's why 17 was fighting on par with goku. i mean goku even used ssb against krillin and bergamo. the difference with krillin it's obvious krillin doesn't stand a chance, in which case goku could have erased him in less than a second if he wanted too. he holds back a lot using ssb most of the time.

i don't know about you, but it's very hard to believe that 17 could have fought beerus on a level higher than SSG goku did, or if they called him up to kick golden frieza's ass instead.

I hope you're joking honestly because you sound like someone who didn't watch episode 86 tbh, 17 wasn't fighting on par with ssj1 17 TRASHED SSJ1 Goku, Goku admitted he had to power up to ssb ! go back and rewatch the fight, also 17 fought on par with ssb Goku and 17 wasn't trying either but the fact that 17 suppressed pushed Goku to ssb that means he's ssb tier because him full powered would have pushed Goku even further. and why is it hard to believe 17 got this strong in 13 years ? Frieza did in 3 months by training with fodder and Toriyama said 17 has an enormous potential and this power up was his idea. so nothing is hard to believe here it's just what you chose to believe, also you can't compare Krillin with 17 in the slightest try maybe comparing 17 and Gohan considering even Gohan was unable to push Goku to ssb at full power but 17 was able to while being suppressed.

[TheZFighter]

He's also one of the smartest so far doesn't mess around. Hopefully he gets far in the tournament.

Million times more enjoyable to watch than the saiyans.

This. 17's comeback has been one of my highlights of Super. Thoroughly enjoyable. Great character. Quickly becoming one of my favourites, just hope they don't spoil it!

[KingKaash]

i suppose he'd be very weak against hit, since he can't sense ki and would be helpless against time skip.

who do you guys think will finally have the honor of taking 17 out of the tournament? i think it will be either jiren or hit, but most likely hit.

You've created a match that I didn't even know I wanted this badly, but now I do, I REALLY REALLY DO! Please Toei, give us 17 vs Hit for the love of Kami! I think it'd be a good fight with both having neat tricks and sick personalities and one liners

Actually now that I think about it, the character that has an effective technique to get past Android 17's energy barrier move is Hit. He could Time-Skip before Android 17 can put up his barrier. Can you imagine Android 17's sudden shock when Hit is inside his energy barrier? Now I do wonder how much body damage Hit's blows to the vitals of Android 17 would cause. Because he is an android, it seems like Android 17 doesn't experience much pain

[Kastex]

i suppose he'd be very weak against hit, since he can't sense ki and would be helpless against time skip.

who do you guys think will finally have the honor of taking 17 out of the tournament? i think it will be either jiren or hit, but most likely hit.

You've created a match that I didn't even know I wanted this badly, but now I do, I REALLY REALLY DO! Please Toei, give us 17 vs Hit for the love of Kami! I think it'd be a good fight with both having neat tricks and sick personalities and one liners

Actually now that I think about it, the character that has an effective technique to get past Android 17's energy barrier move is Hit. He could Time-Skip before Android 17 can put up his barrier. Can you imagine Android 17's sudden shock when Hit is inside his energy barrier? Now I do wonder how much body damage Hit's blows to the vitals of Android 17 would cause. Because he is an android, it seems like Android 17 doesn't experience much pain

the way they animated 17's barrier in episode 102 was from a green sheet of energy around his body expanding outwards. if they stick with that, then anything close to 17 when he manifests the barrier will get pushed back by the barrier. i don't think anyone can get inside of it unless they teleport (like instant transmission).

what would make 17 weak against hit are hit's invisible energy blasts that can pass through objects, since 17 can't sense ki. it seems like hit can manipulate the direction of those blasts almost any way he wants. combining with his time skip he can fire many at a time. there is also a chance they can pass right through 17's barrier.

[Rubens]

I have to say I admire his pragmatism and his new personality shows that he indeed appears to be the kind of character determined to train to get that strong.

[KingKaash]

You've created a match that I didn't even know I wanted this badly, but now I do, I REALLY REALLY DO! Please Toei, give us 17 vs Hit for the love of Kami! I think it'd be a good fight with both having neat tricks and sick personalities and one liners

Actually now that I think about it, the character that has an effective technique to get past Android 17's energy barrier move is Hit. He could Time-Skip before Android 17 can put up his barrier. Can you imagine Android 17's sudden shock when Hit is inside his energy barrier? Now I do wonder how much body damage Hit's blows to the vitals of Android 17 would cause. Because he is an android, it seems like Android 17 doesn't experience much pain

the way they animated 17's barrier in episode 102 was from a green sheet of energy around his body expanding outwards. if they stick with that, then anything close to 17 when he manifests the barrier will get pushed back by the barrier. i don't think anyone can get inside of it unless they teleport (like instant transmission).

what would make 17 weak against hit are hit's invisible energy blasts that can pass through objects, since 17 can't sense ki. it seems like hit can manipulate the direction of those blasts almost any way he wants. combining with his time skip he can fire many at a time. there is also a chance they can pass right through 17's barrier.

Hmm that's actually a good point. I guess Hit would not be able to get inside the barrier. Time-Skip would then help him get attacks in on 17 before the barrier goes up. And definitely, like you mentioned, Hit can manipulate attacks to go through things so it'd be awesome to penetrate 17's barrier. Imagine the shock when 17 is reeling in pain despite having his barrier up. This fight should happen as Android 17s eventual elimination

[Kastex]

Actually now that I think about it, the character that has an effective technique to get past Android 17's energy barrier move is Hit. He could Time-Skip before Android 17 can put up his barrier. Can you imagine Android 17's sudden shock when Hit is inside his energy barrier? Now I do wonder how much body damage Hit's blows to the vitals of Android 17 would cause. Because he is an android, it seems like Android 17 doesn't experience much pain

the way they animated 17's barrier in episode 102 was from a green sheet of energy around his body expanding outwards. if they stick with that, then anything close to 17 when he manifests the barrier will get pushed back by the barrier. i don't think anyone can get inside of it unless they teleport (like instant transmission).

what would make 17 weak against hit are hit's invisible energy blasts that can pass through objects, since 17 can't sense ki. it seems like hit can manipulate the direction of those blasts almost any way he wants. combining with his time skip he can fire many at a time. there is also a chance they can pass right through 17's barrier.

Hmm that's actually a good point. I guess Hit would not be able to get inside the barrier. Time-Skip would then help him get attacks in on 17 before the barrier goes up. And definitely, like you mentioned, Hit can manipulate attacks to go through things so it'd be awesome to penetrate 17's barrier. Imagine the shock when 17 is reeling in pain despite having his barrier up. This fight should happen as Android 17s eventual elimination

in episode 103 17 was able to put his barrier around himself and goku. i believe the shield works the same way that the barrier manifests from directly around 17's body, because 17 is always the center point of his barrier (or else he would not need to be near goku to shield him). i believe the reason he was able to protect goku within the barrier is because of his mastery of this ability. perhaps he can also control whether the barrier repels certain things

[KingKaash]

the way they animated 17's barrier in episode 102 was from a green sheet of energy around his body expanding outwards. if they stick with that, then anything close to 17 when he manifests the barrier will get pushed back by the barrier. i don't think anyone can get inside of it unless they teleport (like instant transmission).

what would make 17 weak against hit are hit's invisible energy blasts that can pass through objects, since 17 can't sense ki. it seems like hit can manipulate the direction of those blasts almost any way he wants. combining with his time skip he can fire many at a time. there is also a chance they can pass right through 17's barrier.

Hmm that's actually a good point. I guess Hit would not be able to get inside the barrier. Time-Skip would then help him get attacks in on 17 before the barrier goes up. And definitely, like you mentioned, Hit can manipulate attacks to go through things so it'd be awesome to penetrate 17's barrier. Imagine the shock when 17 is reeling in pain despite having his barrier up. This fight should happen as Android 17s eventual elimination

in episode 103 17 was able to put his barrier around himself and goku. i believe the shield works the same way that the barrier manifests from directly around 17's body, because 17 is always the center point of his barrier (or else he would not need to be near goku to shield him). i believe the reason he was able to protect goku within the barrier is because of his mastery of this ability. perhaps he can also control whether the barrier repels certain things

So maybe Hit could be inside Android 17's energy barrier. Interesting...we learn something new every week

[Slaythe]

Android 17 vs Hit would be an interesting match.

It would be pretty close.

Then Goku sees his friend is in trouble and comes in to help ! And takes out 17.

Wait.....

[precita]

I'm more impressed with 18...so far.

Also oddly enough it doesn't seem like 18 is any weaker than 17, they're fighting rather equally so far. Even in the original DBZ run 18 was said to be weaker than her brother. But in this tournament you can't tell the difference.

[supercat]

Android 17 is presumably leagues, no worlds above anyone from the Buu saga, including SSJ Vegetto. Android 17 not only completely humiliated a new and improved SSJ Goku, who we know was able to tangle a bit with Beerus (despite SSJ3 Goku getting beyond trashed), he was actually able to keep up with SSB Goku in a seemingly effortless manner. If anything, Goku looked to be exerting far more than Android 17 was.

When we look past the downplaying and look at actual feats and statements we can see how amazing of a feat it is to be able to trounce SSJ Goku (this far out into the series and this far out from the Buu saga) the way Android 17 did.

Heck, even if that were Base Goku, it would still be pretty impressive when we consider the following:

-Base Goku was able to take a charged up blast from a new-and-improved Piccolo's like it was practically some casual ki blast.

-That same Piccolo by that point should be stronger than Ultimate Gohan was in the Buu saga, as he had been training non-stop with Gohan.

-Keep in mind, Piccolo was already able to strangle the SSJ2 out of Gohan. Had their scuffle not been training, Gohan would have been destroyed. And please don't come back with the whole Piccolo is a better fighter nonsense when Gohan specifically asks how Piccolo got so powerful.

Just going off of that, it's very plausible we have the following:

Base Goku >> Piccolo > Buutenks > Ultimate Gohan > Super Buu >> Mr. Buu

And the same SSJ Goku that got utterly wrecked by Android 17 should be 50x all of that. Factoring that in we potentially have:

SSB Goku > / = Android 17 >>> SSJ3 Goku >> SSJ2 Goku > SSJ Goku >>>>> Base Goku >> Piccolo > Buutenks > Ultimate Gohan (Buu saga) > Super Buu >> Mr. Buu

Yeah, Buu? Practically a fodder to these characters at this point. Surprised fans would even believe Android 17 is comparable to such a nobody.

[Kastex]

Android 17 is presumably leagues, no worlds above anyone from the Buu saga, including SSJ Vegetto. Android 17 not only completely humiliated a new and improved SSJ Goku, who we know was able to tangle a bit with Beerus (despite SSJ3 Goku getting beyond trashed), he was actually able to keep up with SSB Goku in a seemingly effortless manner. If anything, Goku looked to be exerting far more than Android 17 was.

When we look past the downplaying and look at actual feats and statements we can see how amazing of a feat it is to be able to trounce SSJ Goku (this far out into the series and this far out from the Buu saga) the way Android 17 did.

Heck, even if that were Base Goku, it would still be pretty impressive when we consider the following:

-Base Goku was able to take a charged up blast from a new-and-improved Piccolo's like it was practically some casual ki blast.

-That same Piccolo by that point should be stronger than Ultimate Gohan was in the Buu saga, as he had been training non-stop with Gohan.

-Keep in mind, Piccolo was already able to strangle the SSJ2 out of Gohan. Had their scuffle not been training, Gohan would have been destroyed. And please don't come back with the whole Piccolo is a better fighter nonsense when Gohan specifically asks how Piccolo got so powerful.

Just going off of that, it's very plausible we have the following:

Base Goku >> Piccolo > Buutenks > Ultimate Gohan > Super Buu >> Mr. Buu

And the same SSJ Goku that got utterly wrecked by Android 17 should be 50x all of that. Factoring that in we potentially have:

SSB Goku > / = Android 17 >>> SSJ3 Goku >> SSJ2 Goku > SSJ Goku >>>>> Base Goku >> Piccolo > Buutenks > Ultimate Gohan (Buu saga) > Super Buu >> Mr. Buu

Yeah, Buu? Practically a fodder to these characters at this point. Surprised fans would even believe Android 17 is comparable to such a nobody.

you guys are giving android 17 too much credit. obviously he's stronger than SS goku since goku went SSB, but they weren't trying to kick each other's asses. goku was holding WAY back in SSB, and obviously 17 wasn't going all out at that time either, because they weren't trying to kill each other. when the landscape actually changes and the skies crack like when goku and gohan were fighting, that is when it gets serious.

you need to keep in mind that 17 is an android so he never fatigues. goku, on the other hand transformed twice during that battle. after he transformed to SSB, he used his kameha and they traded blows, but during that time neither of them seemed at a disadvantage at all. they were evenly matched towards the end, not because 17 is as strong as goku, but because they were both purposely holding back.