The stakes couldn't be higher yet there is no tension at all

[Michsi]

I think it's odd that the characters don't seem to realize how serious this tournament is. When 17 blasted those U2 girls both Goku and Toppo rallied to let them finish transforming. Why let easy pickings become tanks? Just chuck them off the stage before they even transform. Did Cell teach you nothing? Goku's a battle-hungry idiot, so his reaction makes sense, but why should Toppo want those U2 girls up and fighting? Surely he's smarter than "I like them cause we both pose."

That was the show choosing humor over sense, and that wasn't necessarily a bad opportunity for it. Some levity is to be expected.

[SsjCookie]

Barely anyone in the tournament is showing actual emotion such as rage or despair, like you'd expect in a tournament where every universe is fighting for their and everyone else in their universe's lives, but all the characters, not just Goku/Vegeta, but all the characters in other universes as well are acting like this is just another battle and there's no consequence. The only display of any emotion or tension was when U9 got erased, after that it's like everyone forgot it happened and just went back to not caring at all.

Ah yes, good point! The borderline nonchalance some characters display is kinda irritating. Now not to say DBZ didn't have that too to some degree, but not like this. I actually think this might be what's bothering me the most. Not the lack of battle damage or blood or whatever, but the characters feeling pressure.

It seems we might be seeing Gohan be affected after eliminating his opponents and possibly getting them erased, which is how it's supposed to be, but we'll see how they handle it.

I miss basic human emotion in this tournament (oh wait, most of them are not human )
Millions of lives are at stake, so where is the seriousness of the situation?
It feels like a walk in the park somehow.

[jplaya2023]

well we know U7 is winning the tournament unless the EOZ is getting retconned (as it should) and goku is just taking it easy.

hell there was more tension when goku fought king piccolo and piccolo afterwards. the build up sucks, the power scaling is awful. the new character designs are trash

[MR.Mark]

The only display of any emotion or tension was when U9 got erased, after that it's like everyone forgot it happened and just went back to not caring at all.

Can't just curl into a ball, gotta keep fighting.

[ekrolo2]

There probably would be if there wasn't another set of Dragon Ball's as the prize capable of reviving everyone who dies by the time everything's said and done.

It's basically the same problem as post-Namek, another set of DBs makes Cell and Boo total non-issues when your cast can infinite respawn.

Once again proving my hypothesis that if My Hero Academia is a young up and comer taking the world by storm with fresh spins on old ideas, Super is the 90-year old man with Alzheimer's trying to prove he's still hip and cool but can't stop shitting his pants every five adjacent seconds.

[perucho1990]

There probably would be if there wasn't another set of Dragon Ball's as the prize capable of reviving everyone who dies by the time everything's said and done.

It's basically the same problem as post-Namek, another set of DBs makes Cell and Boo total non-issues when your cast can infinite respawn.

Once again proving my hypothesis that if My Hero Academia is a young up and comer taking the world by storm with fresh spins on old ideas, Super is the 90-year old man with Alzheimer's trying to prove he's still hip and cool but can't stop shitting his pants every five adjacent seconds.

That kinda fits Toriyama .

Toyotaro said he was a big BNHA fan, and if he really means it, maybe he incorporates some of their ideas into the manga once He starts coverings the ToP? It would be a blessing in disguise if he takes over the franchise.

[ekrolo2]

There probably would be if there wasn't another set of Dragon Ball's as the prize capable of reviving everyone who dies by the time everything's said and done.

It's basically the same problem as post-Namek, another set of DBs makes Cell and Boo total non-issues when your cast can infinite respawn.

Once again proving my hypothesis that if My Hero Academia is a young up and comer taking the world by storm with fresh spins on old ideas, Super is the 90-year old man with Alzheimer's trying to prove he's still hip and cool but can't stop shitting his pants every five adjacent seconds.

That kinda fits Toriyama .

Toyotaro said he was a big BNHA fan, and if he really means it, maybe he incorporates some of their ideas into the manga once He starts coverings the ToP? It would be a blessing in disguise if he takes over the franchise.

Ehh I don't know, he's by far the most technically competent person working on DB so far but he's get nothing else going for him. He's not really doing anything remarkable or interesting in the manga of Super.

[The gr]

Ehh I don't know, he's by far the most technically competent person working on DB so far but he's get nothing else going for him. He's not really doing anything remarkable or interesting in the manga of Super.

basically my problem with him,he try to make sense but his narrative at times is forgettable.AT still have some cool ideas,like zamas and the battle royal,the idea of 80 people clashing for survival sound cool and original

[BlueBasilisk]

Everyone being super serious all the time would get exhausting week after week. Even during the final showdown with Buu on Supreme Kai's planet you had Satan, Old Kai and even Kid Buu occasionally doing goofy shit to break the tension.

Goku said earlier in the arc that the only thing you can do is win and try to get the Dragon Balls. Most of the Universes are out of immediate danger at the moment but things are treated seriously when they're pushed to the brink. The Trio de Dangers' final stand and erasure was totally serious and it looks like things will be handled similarly with Universe 10.

[perucho1990]

The manga is getting backslog sales, and the latest Volume has gotten quite positive reviews in Amazon Jp, looks like Toyo already got the formula of sucess for the franchise.

With how the ToP in the anime is being received, this is his perfect chance to make it better, and make the manga move to a different level.

I bet that Toyotaro will make the top tiers stomp the scrubs once the ToP starts(easy way to hype them and not make the tournament a clusterfuck)

[ekrolo2]

Ehh I don't know, he's by far the most technically competent person working on DB so far but he's get nothing else going for him. He's not really doing anything remarkable or interesting in the manga of Super.

basically my problem with him,he try to make sense but his narrative at times is forgettable.AT still have some cool ideas,like zamas and the battle royal,the idea of 80 people clashing for survival sound cool and original

If these ideas were being delivered in a way that was genuine or really impactful, I'd forgive wonky execution or a bumpy road getting from A to Z. I love TDKRises and War for the Planet of the Apes inspite of their tendencies to sacrifice total logic for the sake of dramatic satisfaction.

Problem is, Super never earns that right with me. I also doubt Toriyama could make it work either. Except Jaco, he hasn't written anything DB related I can call good since Namek ended. Cell and Boo both suck for various reasons Super tends to, he didn't write BoG the movie and F & Minus were total ass.

[Asura]

Anyone dismissing the tone dbz had is just lying to himself.

So the Buu arcs tone was more hardcore than all of Super? I think not.

That's not even what he said, but I would argue yes, except for minor parts of Black Goku arc, the Buu arc felt more menacing and hopeless than a lot of DBS, even the Tournament of Power doesn't feel like a threat or like anyone is in any sort of danger. Super generally has better/more characters, but the tone where you feel threatened by something so powerful is not really existent in most of DBS, except for when gods of destruction erase stuff instantly, otherwise nothing really feels threatening or ominous at all. The Grand Priest feels threatening, but none of the other really powerful characters or situations seem like a threat at all, and it doesn't help that the way characters are acting like nothing matters only reinforces the lack of tension.

Barely anyone in the tournament is showing actual emotion such as rage or despair, like you'd expect in a tournament where every universe is fighting for their and everyone else in their universe's lives, but all the characters, not just Goku/Vegeta, but all the characters in other universes as well are acting like this is just another battle and there's no consequence. The only display of any emotion or tension was when U9 got erased, after that it's like everyone forgot it happened and just went back to not caring at all.

I have to agree. Well, with the Buu part at least. I half agree with you on the ToP. It could definitely use more tension but I think there's still a decent amount of it and I guarantee once more and more universes start getting erased the tension will start building up more and more.

The Buu arc's tone was definitely hardcore and hopeless. Everyone who stood up to Buu either lost, died, or couldn't continue fighting. They were literally making things up on the spot just to try and defeat Buu who was an unstoppable monster. Everyone on Earth was gruesomely destroyed by him with only one attack. Every time a formidable opponent challenged Buu and victory seemed assured, something would go wrong. The last battle to decide the fate of not just Earth but probably the universe as well was intense and definitely hopeless. Even charging the spirit bomb barely seemed like a viable option since Vegeta would be the only one able to fight Buu off, and he could only last so long. They even had the unexpected Mr. Buu fight for them, and when Goku finally launches the spirit bomb, it's still not enough. It took every fiber of everyone's being just to beat that pink bubblegum bastard into the ground and they still only barely pulled it off by the skin of their teeth.

I don't really think any arc in DBS has been remotely comparable and it's why the Buu arc is my favorite in the series.

[MR.Mark]

Buu wasn't really that unstoppable, By the time Gohan started fighting he had to start playing dirty and absorb people. It had it's moments of darkness but the Buu arc was lighter than the majority of the Cell/Freeza arcs due to the abundance of gags.

Messy writing aside though, the increase of gags is imo one of the better aspects of the Buu arc, it brought the gag manga aspect back.

[kemuri07]

The only display of any emotion or tension was when U9 got erased, after that it's like everyone forgot it happened and just went back to not caring at all.

Can't just curl into a ball, gotta keep fighting.

Sure. But it ties into why there's no real tension in this arc, despite the fact that the odds are so fucking stacked. We're talking about genocide on a universal scale and the show itself (not the characters) barely gives a shit.

And before anyone puts words in my mouth, I'm not saying that DBS needs to be more "hardcore" or to stop making jokes. I get it: DB is a battle anime for 10 year old boys, so I don't expect it to go all Berserk on us. But considering the fact that the losers get blinked out of existence, yeah, I do expect some level of urgency from the fighters. Instead it just feels like business as usual.

Basically we're just watching until the episode where Goku gets a new transformation....

And then get disappointed all over again.

[Rory]

Did Cell teach you nothing?

My issue here too. As much as people love to say that Goku lives for the thrill of the fight and puts it above all else, it just isn't the case. We've seen evidence to the contrary.
Thing is, Toriyama even gets involved and people quote him to justify Goku's behavior, but actions speak louder than words.
Regardless of what Toriyama says, we've seen Goku hand a fight to a more capable warrior, we've seen him scream at his son to finish a fight off, we've seen him admit that he wants the warriors of earth to have a shot of beating a creature that he could beat, and we've seen him entrust the fate of the earth to his son for a second time, admitting his fear of fighting the big bad's new form himself himself.

Granted the Boo arc becomes a bit of a mess by the end, with Goku and Vegeta claiming they have to fight alone, spouting some nonsense about Saiyan fighter pride or whatever (makes no sense considered what just came before it), but for the most part we've seen Goku as a character who knows when it's time to get serious. As the thread title states, the stakes couldn't be higher, and we've just got a Goku that doesn't act like Goku.

[precita]

The Buu arc is also the first time the entire main cast were actually "hiding" from the enemy and not confronting them head on like every other saga. Gohan and Trunks/Goten had to train, Vegeta failed, Goku was willing to return to the Otherworld. All the humans like Krillin, Yamcha, 18, etc. were all in hiding. Everyone knew they were helpless.

[MR.Mark]

The only display of any emotion or tension was when U9 got erased, after that it's like everyone forgot it happened and just went back to not caring at all.

Can't just curl into a ball, gotta keep fighting.

Sure. But it ties into why there's no real tension in this arc, despite the fact that the odds are so fucking stacked. We're talking about genocide on a universal scale and the show itself (not the characters) barely gives a shit.

And before anyone puts words in my mouth, I'm not saying that DBS needs to be more "hardcore" or to stop making jokes. I get it: DB is a battle anime for 10 year old boys, so I don't expect it to go all Berserk on us. But considering the fact that the losers get blinked out of existence, yeah, I do expect some level of urgency from the fighters. Instead it just feels like business as usual.

Basically we're just watching until the episode where Goku gets a new transformation....

And then get disappointed all over again.

I still think your jumping the gun a little, only one universe had be erased so far. There still plenty of time for some major shit to go down.

[RedHeat]

Let's be honest, the manga version of the ToP won't be any better than the anime's. In fact I'm going to go as far and say it's going to be worse.

The common complaint I've seen of the manga is that Toyotaro spends way too much time juggling Vegeta/Goku so anyone else feels almost like a footnote. How well do you think he can managed 70 new characters? Sure the fights will definitely be good as exspected, but everything's gonna be rushed into a blur with most characters lasting a page at best with barely any tension besides what's looming in the background.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

Universe 7 seems to be pretty par for the course, really; Goku, Vegeta, and Freeza are going to do whatever they want because they have weight to throw around and generally don't dig in their heels until the time comes, 17 and 18 have always had a cold streak that suits the format, while Gohan, Piccolo, Tien, Krillan, and Roshi marvel at everything from the sidelines (as they always did in the Z-era) and try to keep together because they actually get what's happening and why keeping a core is necessary. That's true to everyone.

The thing that throws me off is that this clearly wants to be the Afterlife tournament on steroids, with the emphasis on the sheer variety of people and building rapport between certain combats, but then Toriyama figured that wouldn't generate interest so noooooooow there's a cosmic elimination penalty established behind closed doors. It's so tacked on.

[The gr]

Let's be honest, the manga version of the ToP won't be any better than the anime's. In fact I'm going to go as far and say it's going to be worse.

The common complaint I've seen of the manga is that Toyotaro spends way too much time juggling Vegeta/Goku so anyone else feels almost like a footnote. How well do you think he can managed 70 new characters? Sure the fights will definitely be good as exspected, but everything's gonna be rushed into a blur with most characters lasting a page at best with barely any tension besides what's looming in the background.

Toyotaro is not gonna rush thing,he stop doing that,and they will be tension since the manga is consistent with the scaling and tone,or unless toriyama came up with the u2 gag and everyone acting nonchalant

He could juggle 70 character if they are relevant to the outline or maybe he will focus on his character design and AT a bit more like u3,u4,u9