What's up with Tenshinhan this arc?

[Doctor.]

In his own episode, meant to showcase his prowess and leadership as a martial arts master, he got fooled, manipulated and later on punked by Roshi. In the following episode, he was in a tag-team battle where clearly he was the weakest link and just all-around seemed like an indecisive and inexperienced newbie when he's a seasoned warrior with tons of experience that should be able to make the best decisions on the fly. Then before the tournament began, he was hesitant to spar with Kuririn. And now in the tournament, the only thing he seems to know how to do is repeat "Sasuga Muten Roshi-sama" over and over and over again.

I don't even like the guy but this is getting embarrassing. I wonder why they even decided to bring him if they're not doing anything with the character.

[sintzu]

Maybe they're just doing it as fan service ? I guess we'll see if it's worth it or not once his time in the torunament starts. If he gets something like Krillin then It'll make up for it somewhat.

[LightBing]

We got to know what he's been up to. That's already more than the Boo Arc did in terms of character development.

About the tournament, you're jumping the gun with this thread. There's still 39 minutes left. The current pace is 1 episode = 1 minute and 30 seconds. Even if the pace increases, I dare to say there's more than enough time to focus on Tenshinhan and everyone else.

[Vegeta123]

if u dont like him why do you care enough to make a thread about him?

Tien is just there, does nothing, his main attack makes him tired and lose stamina.....useless.....but i dont hate him like others.

[omaro34]

Still plenty of time left. Nobody on Gohan's crew got real screen time outside of Krillin getting his own episode and losing to Frost. You didn't mention Tien teaming up with Roshi and him eliminating somebody with his Tri Beam which was nice.

Nobody expects Tien to be a key player but he'll get something, the current pacing of this arc is already at Namek levels so Tien getting something should happen. I think you're prematurely jumping the gun a bit.

And outside of the recruitment episode, and him getting wrecked by Gohan which is expected since the power gap is too high, I don't see the embarrassment that you speak of. Although I would have liked Tien to spar with Krillin but the writers won't do that; this would create too many "strongest earthling" arguments.

Also, out of curiosity, why don't you like Tien? He doesn't get enough screen time to be hated. He holds attributes that are hard to find in real life: He's incredibly loyal, knows his boundaries & limits, can be a great friend, makes sacrifices for others, and an honorable warrior who trains on his own pace and doesn't care that his Saiyan comrades are vastly stronger. I respect that.

[Rubens]

I admit, at least in his own episode, Tenshinhan should have been given the chance to look good and be the one to beat Muten Roshi, in my opinion. The earthlings aren't suppose to make much of a difference but given the amount and variety of opponents, even if Tenshinhan's power is too little to matter, he should at least be capable of using his techniques and experience to make up for that; in the episode with Gohan & Piccolo vs Goku & Tenshinhan, he should have used said experience to try to avoid direct combat considering his opponents' level rather than blindly charge at them, even though he wasn't expected to accomplish much. Alas, it's still early and Gohan just split the team, let's see how Tenshinhan fares on his own.

[Zephyr]

The trio who were dead and stayed at Kaio's during the entirety of the Namek arc never really fully recovered as characters afterward (this could even extend farther back, depending on how you look at it). Two of them helped against the artificial humans, but not in any sort of way that helped progress a character arc. After the Cell Games, Yamcha retired, and Tenshinhan and Chaozu retreated somewhere isolated, planning never to see anyone again. I suppose in that sense, there's some sort of closure for them there?

But after that, there was definitely zero being done with them as characters. Ten's brief cameo in the Buu arc is essentially just fanservice: he's in the action, and it's cool, but he's not really changing and evolving. He's not growing as a person, and his stint in RoF was no different. Toriyama's only giving bullet points this time around. I don't expect Toriyama to just pick up where he 'left off' so to speak, and start a new character arc for a character whose arc ended over two decades ago. Toriyama's work flows continuously, and when there are real world breaks in it, it's really noticeable. And this break in Tenshinhan's growth and evolution is quite big. I'd wager that Goten and Trunks aren't going to be doing anything important or meaningful or growing in any significant way (like getting new character designs ), as long as Toriyama's at the helm, for similar reasons. And I can't blame him.

Toei's script writers are abysmal at emulating Toriyama's way of weaving stories and character arcs. It's no surprise that they're doing fuck all for anyone (in terms of character evolution), least of all Tenshinhan, who I'm sure not even Toriyama's bullet points make much of an effort to do more then mention "he does a thing in a fight". Even as someone who really enjoyed his character arc from a cocky assassin-in-training, to a vengeful student, to a repentant martial artist, I'm not all that worked up over seeing him "reduced" to essentially being Roshi's sidekick.

It's also unsurprising to me that Tenshinhan's there in spite of this. This is literally "fanservice: the arc": We have our Ultimate Gohan, bang and all. We have our (female Super Saiyan!) Broly. We have our Freeza. We have our Android 17. We have our Roshi. We have this 80 man battle royal between multiple universes. I'm not expecting character growth from anyone, really. Though Gohan and Freeza seem to be showing a sliver of promise. Somehow Roshi, as well, in a way (though I expect his newfound stoicism around pichi pichi gals to be undone for a gag at some point, so I expect that to become a moot point).

This thread could be titled "What's up with pretty much everyone in Super?" and my points would be the same. Pretty much everyone was given proper closure to a character arc at some point in the manga, and that shit ended over 20 years ago. What little bits of character development has shined through for these vintage characters since Battle of Gods has been nothing short of a miracle.

[emperior]

The trio who were dead and stayed at Kaio's during the entirety of the Namek arc never really fully recovered as characters afterward (this could even extend farther back, depending on how you look at it). Two of them helped against the artificial humans, but not in any sort of way that helped progress a character arc. After the Cell Games, Yamcha retired, and Tenshinhan and Chaozu retreated somewhere isolated, planning never to see anyone again. I suppose in that sense, there's some sort of closure for them there?

But after that, there was definitely zero being done with them as characters. Ten's brief cameo in the Buu arc is essentially just fanservice: he's in the action, and it's cool, but he's not really changing and evolving. He's not growing as a person, and his stint in RoF was no different. Toriyama's only giving bullet points this time around. I don't expect Toriyama to just pick up where he 'left off' so to speak, and start a new character arc for a character whose arc ended over two decades ago. Toriyama's work flows continuously, and when there are real world breaks in it, it's really noticeable. And this break in Tenshinhan's growth and evolution is quite big. I'd wager that Goten and Trunks aren't going to be doing anything important or meaningful or growing in any significant way (like getting new character designs ), as long as Toriyama's at the helm, for similar reasons. And I can't blame him.

Toei's script writers are abysmal at emulating Toriyama's way of weaving stories and character arcs. It's no surprise that they're doing fuck all for anyone (in terms of character evolution), least of all Tenshinhan, who I'm sure not even Toriyama's bullet points make much of an effort to do more then mention "he does a thing in a fight". Even as someone who really enjoyed his character arc from a cocky assassin-in-training, to a vengeful student, to a repentant martial artist, I'm not all that worked up over seeing him "reduced" to essentially being Roshi's sidekick.

It's also unsurprising to me that Tenshinhan's there in spite of this. This is literally "fanservice: the arc": We have our Ultimate Gohan, bang and all. We have our (female Super Saiyan!) Broly. We have our Freeza. We have our Android 17. We have our Roshi. We have this 80 man battle royal between multiple universes. I'm not expecting character growth from anyone, really. Though Gohan and Freeza seem to be showing a sliver of promise. Somehow Roshi, as well, in a way (though I expect his newfound stoicism around pichi pichi gals to be undone for a gag at some point, so I expect that to become a moot point).

This thread could be titled "What's up with pretty much everyone in Super?" and my points would be the same. Pretty much everyone was given proper closure to a character arc at some point in the manga, and that shit ended over 20 years ago. What little bits of character development has shined through for these vintage characters since Battle of Gods has been nothing short of a miracle.

Why should Super even develop characters who were already developed in the manga? I never expected this show to suddenly have Tenshinan of all people to go through a character arc. He's in the ToP because he is good enough as a fighter, is well known by the fans, already has his fighting style and techniques and can have some cool moments. I liked that they showed how Tenshinan has opened his own dojo, that's exactly the sort of things I want Super to show us.

[Zephyr]

Why should Super even develop characters who were already developed in the manga?

In other words, why should Super even have character development?

[emperior]

Why should Super even develop characters who were already developed in the manga?

In other words, why should Super even have character development?

I didn't word it right. What I mean is that secondary characters such as Tenshinan should stay the same in my opinion, unless they become main characters.

[omaro34]

Why should Super even develop characters who were already developed in the manga?

In other words, why should Super even have character development?

I didn't word it right. What I mean is that secondary characters such as Tenshinan should stay the same in my opinion, unless they become main characters.

Yeah stay the same as background decoration while the Saiyans beat the main villain? I've heard that same old song and dance before, and you know good and damn well they're never becoming main characters, but it wouldn't hurt to show progression, and one doesn't need a lot of screen time for that.

[Lionel]

From my point of view, Tenshinhan has become more riveting of a character to follow than someone like Vegeta. We've seen so little of him following the 23rd tournament. The infrequent exploits afterwards makes for some good temporary entertainment which happens to reaffirm the competency of the character in the face of overwhelming odds. However, it's not as though he's really immersed in the conflict or with the opposing characters -- not like how Goku, Vegeta and others are. So many perceive him as a holdover from a bygone era years back. It's sad to say but this notion is applicable to most of the humans. Krillin manages to stave off the trapping for awhile before finally succumbing to it in the Cell arc. Since then they're all relegated to supplementary roles that possess little weight beyond what Launch or Bulma may have carried in the early arcs of Dragon Ball. When you think about it, you could garner more choreographical and narrative deepness from Tenshinhan losing to Drum than you do him dominating a Saibaman nine years later. The Saiyans were tantamount to little else beyond another world threatening menace, except they're hailing from Space instead of the indigenous continents of Earth. Piccolo Daimao meant more for him as a character not only for his direct role in the death of his close friend, but also for his redemption since it was assumed Goku was dead at the time. Everyone was relying on him to take that mantle and quell the menace. The connection becomes even more significant when you realise the historical connection Piccolo Daimao has to the precipitating creators of the Crane and Hermit schools before their divergence. Nothing like that has ever come about for Tenshinhan since and it's very unlikely we'll ever see Tenshinhan placed under that kind of spotlight again.

Despite the obsolescence of his general fighting power, Tenshinhan is still the more interesting character to observe fight. The uniqueness of the occasion coupled with the variety of his techniques give some dimension to fighting. Well, it would be like this if we actually saw him use his repertoire more often. I can at least look towards Tenshinhan for having the more dynamic and engrossing fighting abilities. What does someone like Vegeta, another rival figure who's heyday came and went, have to offer beyond transformations and rehashed linear projectiles, only with a different name? I can hope we see a substantive contribution made by Tenshinhan this arc. Paying an homage of respect to the Shiyoken gives me some level of hope that we could perhaps see it in the future. If we're able to see some classic callbacks to the 22nd tournament then I would feel satisfied.

[Doctor.]

Also, out of curiosity, why don't you like Tien? He doesn't get enough screen time to be hated. He holds attributes that are hard to find in real life: He's incredibly loyal, knows his boundaries & limits, can be a great friend, makes sacrifices for others, and an honorable warrior who trains on his own pace and doesn't care that his Saiyan comrades are vastly stronger. I respect that.

He's boring, his introductory arc was one of the worst arc in the series for me, he hasn't developed since the 23rd Budokai, Piccolo and Vegeta do his archetype much better and his character could have stayed dead back in the Saiyan arc and it wouldn't have changed the story. There's hardly anything to like. I don't dislike him, he's just one of my least favorite characters because there aren't many characters in Dragon Ball that I don't like.

if u dont like him why do you care enough to make a thread about him?

Because, contrary to popular belief, you can discuss aspects of the series that include characters you don't like.

[Asura]

Somehow Roshi, as well, in a way (though I expect his newfound stoicism around pichi pichi gals to be undone for a gag at some point, so I expect that to become a moot point).

Every time I see these scenes with Roshi I cringe because I fucking know they're going to undo it all for a stupid gag that gets him knocked out. The fact that they keep making a point over and over and over again to show how Roshi is a changed man is just all the more evidence that this is a gag. Roshi's pervert nature basically defines his character anyway so I doubt they're doing away with it.

With regards to Tenshinhan, I dunno. I've never really cared for Tenshinhan after DB. He's not particularly interesting, his personality is boring, and for some reason he likes to screw off to isolated parts of the world while telling his friends that he'll never see them again. Nice.

Would have preferred if Buu came instead. I don't think Tenshinhan will do anything that impressive or get any character development before he gets knocked out. The show will probably give us no reason to even like Tenshinhan or show us a different side of him. He's pretty much just there to be fodder and I will be surprised if he's not the next person to get knocked out for U7, especially now that Gohan and Piccolo aren't there to protect him.

Still sour over the fact that Krillin got KOed first after receiving arguably the most character development out of any of them for the tournament.

[Basako]

Also, out of curiosity, why don't you like Tien? He doesn't get enough screen time to be hated. He holds attributes that are hard to find in real life: He's incredibly loyal, knows his boundaries & limits, can be a great friend, makes sacrifices for others, and an honorable warrior who trains on his own pace and doesn't care that his Saiyan comrades are vastly stronger. I respect that.

He's boring, his introductory arc was one of the worst arc in the series for me, he hasn't developed since the 23rd Budokai, Piccolo and Vegeta do his archetype much better and his character could have stayed dead back in the Saiyan arc and it wouldn't have changed the story. There's hardly anything to like. I don't dislike him, he's just one of my least favorite characters because there aren't many characters in Dragon Ball that I don't like.

if u dont like him why do you care enough to make a thread about him?

Because, contrary to popular belief, you can discuss aspects of the series that include characters you don't like.

Just because you don't like him, doesn't mean he is not one of the strongest earthlings, with unique techniques and a vast fighting experience. He was selected to fight and he is still on it.

[DainIronfoot]

Been quite a few topics like these already. Tien has not been receiving love this arc that is for sure. However, remember that there is still much time left and I'm holding on to the hope that he continues to team up with Roshi for some team ko's. I was very excited for all the Earthlings to get a good showing this arc, and while Kuririn was first out, he still had several successes. If Tien does the same, it'll be acceptable.

Just because you don't like him, doesn't mean he is not one of the strongest earthlings, with unique techniques and a vast fighting experience. He was selected to fight and he is still on it.

Indeed. I like Tien, not as much as I like Kuririn, but I still love how unique Tien has always been. He's definitely an asset to the team, not a liability.

[Doctor.]

Just because you don't like him, doesn't mean he is not one of the strongest earthlings, with unique techniques and a vast fighting experience. He was selected to fight and he is still on it.

What does that have to do with anything? I'm questioning his purpose in the plot, not his strength.

[Basako]

Just because you don't like him, doesn't mean he is not one of the strongest earthlings, with unique techniques and a vast fighting experience. He was selected to fight and he is still on it.

What does that have to do with anything? I'm questioning his purpose in the plot, not his strength.

His purpose in the plot is to fight in the tournament and last as long as he can, his strength is relevant. Also, you not liking him doesn't mean he can't have one centric episode as he did, because the show is not exclusively done for you.

[Doctor.]

Just because you don't like him, doesn't mean he is not one of the strongest earthlings, with unique techniques and a vast fighting experience. He was selected to fight and he is still on it.

What does that have to do with anything? I'm questioning his purpose in the plot, not his strength.

His purpose in the plot is to fight in the tournament and last as long as he can, his strength is relevant. Also, you not liking him doesn't mean he can't have one centric episode as he did, because the show is not exclusively done for you.

Why are you taking such offense to what I said and pretending like you know what I want? I want him to have his own episode.

[Basako]

What does that have to do with anything? I'm questioning his purpose in the plot, not his strength.

His purpose in the plot is to fight in the tournament and last as long as he can, his strength is relevant. Also, you not liking him doesn't mean he can't have one centric episode as he did, because the show is not exclusively done for you.

Why are you taking such offense to what I said? I want him to have his own episode.

I didn't take any offense, I just wrote my opinion about the matter.