Don't you think that Vegeta is dark horse of this tournament?

[Miracles]

Toriyama is unpredictable. Jiren vs Goku may not be the final fight. If it is, Goku may still lose even with his new form. Toriyama might make Vegeta the man due to the fact he has a new kid. This gave him new motivation. If you remember, Vegeta even stated this is one of the main reasons why Goku was always a step ahead of him. He had family to protect! I don't put it past Toriyama to make Vegeta shine among the rest. I also don't put it past him to make Roshi win either, lol.

I don't know. Veggie has had family to protect before, but that's never really helped him. Sure this time definitely could be different, but I really need to see something from Vegeta and the writing here of this saga in general to get me to believe this. Cause I feel having Roshi win it is a lot more likely than having Vegeta win it. Also, didn't Vegeta say he thought it was because Goku had a family to protect as the reason Goku was almost always far above him, but that wasn't the reason at all? I could very easily see Goku lose though as well, and you're also right that Goku VS Jiren likely might not even be the final fight. Hell, are we even sure this tournament is going to reach the end? AT can be very unpredictable so who knows. In fact, U7 losing I feel is predictable given how each saga in Super has ended for them.

You really see Roshi winning it over Vegeta? The same Roshi that has his own episode in a few weeks stating that he's pushing himself to near death? You've gotta be kidding me.

Just using Roshi as an example that Toriyama can be unpredictable and make anyone win in the tourney.
Another universe might win.

[Jigurashi]

I don't know. Veggie has had family to protect before, but that's never really helped him. Sure this time definitely could be different, but I really need to see something from Vegeta and the writing here of this saga in general to get me to believe this. Cause I feel having Roshi win it is a lot more likely than having Vegeta win it. Also, didn't Vegeta say he thought it was because Goku had a family to protect as the reason Goku was almost always far above him, but that wasn't the reason at all? I could very easily see Goku lose though as well, and you're also right that Goku VS Jiren likely might not even be the final fight. Hell, are we even sure this tournament is going to reach the end? AT can be very unpredictable so who knows. In fact, U7 losing I feel is predictable given how each saga in Super has ended for them.

You really see Roshi winning it over Vegeta? The same Roshi that has his own episode in a few weeks stating that he's pushing himself to near death? You've gotta be kidding me.

Just using Roshi as an example that Toriyama can be unpredictable and make anyone win in the tourney.
Another universe might win.

Tbh, I'm expecting U7 to lose. U7 hasn't really gotten a concrete win of their own at all in Super. I have no reason to believe at the moment why this saga would be different. I definitely wouldn't mind U7 losing though.

[Shinda Forever]

Bless 17 for being so amazing and bringing us great fights alongside his return.

Vegeta, hmm... I wonder who could he have a serious fight with. Unless he happens to meet with Ribrianne again.

Hmm...maybe Hit? It's not like they haven't teased it already like two times in this tournament...

That's in the anime which is full of bad writing, in the manga it's the complete opposite.

I disagree, the manga is the one with complete one sided bad writing, it is DBAF.2.

And what exactly? Because if you mean your favorite character not being so OP, then it's very good writing.

It isn't about Hitto, but about the fact that non saiyajins are garbage in the manga and obviously Hitto should be in the manga ssb level not ssj god level.

He still earns no points for not apparently knowing the huge flaw with SSB in the U6 Saga when Goku and Whis knew about it.

He said he knew about it but thought the remaining power he'd have would be enough to beat Hut.

The manga is the one with complete one sided bad writing, it is DBAF.2.

The manga isn't the one that gave Trunks a new form and attack without explaining it.

The manga isn't the one that had the heroes go back to the future twice only to get their asses kicked.

The manga isn't the one that a group of humans out smarting Black.

The manga isn't the one that had Beerus say he used 10% of his power against a Ssj2 Vegeta only to say he's still stronger than Kioken Blue Goku.

Yes, in the manga Trunks was a clown while in the anime he had an important role.
The manga is only about Goku and Vegeta nobody else, it is a completely one dimensional storytelling where everyone else is a bum. It is like a fucking fanfic about saiyajins.
What's wrong with a group of humans out smarting Black?
Yes, the manga did worse than that, it said Vegeta only fought with 10% against Hitto, basically using the same shit saint seiya did against Radhamanthys in the Hades castle, when he faced the gold saints, but, in Saint Seiya case, later, they corrected that with a good explanation and fixed since all of them were in the same level uner normal circumstances. In the manga Hitto would have been easily obliterated by Goku and Vegeta. Is that good? It is only good for the ultra hardcore saiyajin fundamentalists that like no competitive matches, they want to see one punch man contests where the saiyajins always win easily.

[sintzu]

Yes, in the manga Trunks was a clown while in the anime he had an important role.

The manga is only about Goku and Vegeta nobody else, it is a completely one dimensional storytelling where everyone else is a bum.

It is like a fucking fanfic about saiyajins.

What's wrong with a group of humans out smarting Black?

In the manga Hitto would have been easily obliterated by Goku and Vegeta.

Is that good ?

His role in the manga made sense from an in-universe perspective. Trunks was Ssj3 level while Black and Zamasu were Blue leve (in the manga there's actually power differences between characters and forms) so of course he's going to sit on the side. What the anime did was complete none sense that the most die hard Super fans have admited.

That's where the story is, Goku and Vegeta are leads ahead of everyone else. The manga is just doing things in a way that makes sense, unlike the anime where you've got krillin fighting Blue Goku.

And Trunks' role in the anime wasn't ?

Out of the 7 billion humans, just that group is out smarting him ? it was bull just to create fake tension.

By the time this torunament is over Hit will be joined by 60% or so of the multiverse so he won't be the only one Goku & Vegeta can rip in 2.

It made sense, did the Kaioken make sense ? You don't have to like what the manga does but at least everything is explained.

[Whatever]

Yes, in the manga Trunks was a clown while in the anime he had an important role.

The manga is only about Goku and Vegeta nobody else, it is a completely one dimensional storytelling where everyone else is a bum.

It is like a fucking fanfic about saiyajins.

What's wrong with a group of humans out smarting Black?

In the manga Hitto would have been easily obliterated by Goku and Vegeta.

Is that good ?

His role in the manga made sense from an in-universe perspective. Trunks was Ssj3 level while Black and Zamasu were Blue leve (in the manga there's actually power differences between characters and forms) so of course he's going to sit on the side. What the anime did was complete none sense that the most die hard Super fans have admited.

That's where the story is, Goku and Vegeta are leads ahead of everyone else. The manga is just doing things in a way that makes sense, unlike the anime where you've got krillin fighting Blue Goku.

And Trunks' role in the anime wasn't ?

Out of the 7 billion humans, just that group is out smarting him ? it was bull just to create fake tension.

By the time this torunament is over Hit will be joined by 60% or so of the multiverse so he won't be the only one Goku & Vegeta can rip in 2.

It made sense, did the Kaioken make sense ? You don't have to like what the manga does but at least everything is explained.

Trunk's new form and spirit sword was bs and we can complain about how it was executed but Trunks being a side character on his OWN arc is a very big mistake no matter how you look at it.
Its 1 thing to make Goku and Vegeta being way ahead of everyone in their team but when they outclass everyone including the villains and big players of an arc(like Hit in the u6 arc)then whats the point?Where is the tension if they are ahead of everyone they face?
Using the 1/10th power excuse in the U6 arc took any credibility Hit had because his accomplishment of beating the 2nd strongest person in U7 is now rendered void.
Not to mention it made Vegeta look like an amateur as well.
And lets not even mention Black and (Merged)Zamasu

[sintzu]

Using the 1/10th power excuse in the U6 arc took any credibility Hit had because his accomplishment of beating the 2nd strongest person in U7 is now rendered void. Not to mention it made Vegeta look like an amateur as well.

And lets not even mention Black and (Merged)Zamasu

Why'd it make him look like an amateur ? he knew nothing about Hit and based on how weak everyone else was you can't blame him for thinking he wouldn't be much stronger.

Why not ? what's wrong with them ? Black beat Vegeta in their first fight and merged Zamasu forced them to bring in Zeno and was handled a lot better than the anime's version.

[TBMx]

Since he and Goku took down U9, which he had to go BLUE to accomplish,

The three fights he had since then:
Vegeta retreated from Botamo- Magetta.
He withdrew from Cabba.
He retreated from Ribrienne.

They're either saving his power for something big or they're going to be edgelords and shaft him for so called shock value at the above is just a sign that they don't care about Vegeta in this arc. Any other anime with any other archrival character I would go with they're saving him, but with Vegeta, he's been mishandled so many times before, that shafting him in a pathetic way isn't unthinkable the way it would be with Seto Kaiba.

[SsjCookie]

He'll be more like the second (or third) fiddle to both Goku and/or Gohan I'm afraid.
The way they have been treating Vegeta in Super I expect him to be standing in the shadow of both father and son.....again.

I hope I'll be pleasantly surprised though.

[Shinda Forever]

Yes, in the manga Trunks was a clown while in the anime he had an important role.

The manga is only about Goku and Vegeta nobody else, it is a completely one dimensional storytelling where everyone else is a bum.

It is like a fucking fanfic about saiyajins.

What's wrong with a group of humans out smarting Black?

In the manga Hitto would have been easily obliterated by Goku and Vegeta.

Is that good ?

His role in the manga made sense from an in-universe perspective. Trunks was Ssj3 level while Black and Zamasu were Blue leve (in the manga there's actually power differences between characters and forms) so of course he's going to sit on the side. What the anime did was complete none sense that the most die hard Super fans have admited.

That's where the story is, Goku and Vegeta are leads ahead of everyone else. The manga is just doing things in a way that makes sense, unlike the anime where you've got krillin fighting Blue Goku.

And Trunks' role in the anime wasn't ?

Out of the 7 billion humans, just that group is out smarting him ? it was bull just to create fake tension.

By the time this torunament is over Hit will be joined by 60% or so of the multiverse so he won't be the only one Goku & Vegeta can rip in 2.

It made sense, did the Kaioken make sense ? You don't have to like what the manga does but at least everything is explained.

It made no sense, because, they could have trained Trunks in the hyperbolic chamber to achieve ssj blue.
Krillin didn't fight ssj blue, Goku only tested his power nothing else.
In case, you haven't noticed, in 7 billion humans only a small group can understand Einstein equations.
It makes no sense for Hitto to be weaker than ssj blue in the u6 arc, it is just pure saiyajin fan wanking a thing that Toyble is so good at it. Hitto was supposed to be a threat like Frieza or Cell were during their arcs.

[Jigurashi]

Since he and Goku took down U9, which he had to go BLUE to accomplish,

The three fights he had since then:
Vegeta retreated from Botamo- Magetta.
He withdrew from Cabba.
He retreated from Ribrienne.

They're either saving his power for something big or they're going to be edgelords and shaft him for so called shock value at the above is just a sign that they don't care about Vegeta in this arc. Any other anime with any other archrival character I would go with they're saving him, but with Vegeta, he's been mishandled so many times before, that shafting him in a pathetic way isn't unthinkable the way it would be with Seto Kaiba.

I don't know why they can't do both? He could get a great fight where it establishes how powerful he is currently and his progress he made, and still get wrecked in his next fight or backstabbed by Freeza or something. Kaiba was never shafted though.

[sintzu]

The way they have been treating Vegeta in Super I expect him to be standing in the shadow of both father and son.....again.

The only time that ever happened was during the Cell games and even then he played a major role in Gohan's victory. In all of Super Gohan's been the one in the shadow while Vegeta was on the front line so why are you even thinking this will happen ? and what do you mean by "the way they've been treating him" ?

Vegeta's been mishandled so many times before.

When ? in every arc since his introduction he's been handled VERY well.

[Michsi]

When ? in every arc since his introduction he's been handled VERY well.

Depends on who you ask, but the fact that he loses more fights than he wins, and is used often used as a measuring stick for Goku to look more impressive at the end (pretty much like every character before him) doesn't sit well with a lot of fans. Personally I think his character got a better deal than most and was given even a position of second protagonist in Super, but some still want him to stomp everything in sight.

[Benedetto12]

I think he will do really well in the late part of the tournament I expect him to take out a top fighter like Toppo, Hit or Kale, being one of the top 10 or even top 5 fighters to last in the tournament then getting beaten by Jiren or betrayed by Freeza

[sintzu]

He loses more fights than he wins.

and is used often used as a measuring stick for Goku to look more impressive at the end.

That's the case with Goku as well. The good thing is that when they do when it has more weight to it than if they'd win 24/7.

The opposite has happened as well. During BOG for example Goku couldn't do anything to Beerus as a Ssj3 (Mystic Gohan couldn't either) while a Ssj2 Vegeta managed to land multiple hits on him. Same thing happened against the Androids when Goku couldn't fight thanks to his heart and Vegeta came out of nowhere, saved him, turned into a Ssj and blew 19 up.

In the manga's Black arc he got Black all to himself and was the one to blow up the 2 merged Zamasues before they multiplied and Zeno was forced to step in.

[Lionel]

Forgive me for saying this, but it's difficult for Vegeta's plight to resonate with me because, in spite of his many shortfalls, he still comes out looking rosy in comparison to virtually all of the cast sans Goku himself. What about the fans of other characters? When does Piccolo get his comeuppance? Does Tenshinhan need to be perpetually exploited as a largely ineffectual fourth wheel in this tournament? Vegeta is experiencing a golden age of productiveness and meaningful screen writing next to those characters. On some occasions he's even managed to outperform Goku. It's highly probable that he'll make it into the top 10, if not top 5. If some concession can be made for someone else then I would gladly have Vegeta take the dive.

[SsjCookie]

When ? in every arc since his introduction he's been handled VERY well.

Depends on who you ask, but the fact that he loses more fights than he wins, and is used often used as a measuring stick for Goku to look more impressive at the end (pretty much like every character before him) doesn't sit well with a lot of fans. Personally I think his character got a better deal than most and was given even a position of second protagonist in Super, but some still want him to stomp everything in sight.

The thing is...
Vegeta never wins the crucial battles.

I would love for him to win against a serious villain for once without Goku butting in and stealing his fight.

But yeah in comparison to the other cast he's got the better deal I guess.

[HeroR]

The thing is...
Vegeta never wins the crucial battles.

I would love for him to win against a serious villain for once without Goku butting in and stealing his fight.

But yeah in comparison to the other cast he's got the better deal I guess.

Goku never butts in. Vegeta just screws up and people have to clean up the mess.

[Jigurashi]

The thing is...
Vegeta never wins the crucial battles.

I would love for him to win against a serious villain for once without Goku butting in and stealing his fight.

But yeah in comparison to the other cast he's got the better deal I guess.

Goku never butts in. Vegeta just screws up and people have to clean up the mess.

Outside of RoF (where he had to step in because Veggie boy would be dead if he didn't) I don't understand why some fans talk as if Goku steals Vegeta's fights. When the reality is that Vegeta simply fails to defeat the main adversary and it's usually left up to Goku to do so.

[Mercenary]

The thing is...
Vegeta never wins the crucial battles.

I would love for him to win against a serious villain for once without Goku butting in and stealing his fight.

But yeah in comparison to the other cast he's got the better deal I guess.

Goku never butts in. Vegeta just screws up and people have to clean up the mess.

Outside of RoF (where he had to step in because Veggie boy would be dead if he didn't) I don't understand why some fans talk as if Goku steals Vegeta's fights. When the reality is that Vegeta simply fails to defeat the main adversary and it's usually left up to Goku to do so.

It's stupid to fasten blame on Vegeta. Everything it's because of WRITING, which doesn't allow Vegeta to save the day.

[Jigurashi]

Goku never butts in. Vegeta just screws up and people have to clean up the mess.

Outside of RoF (where he had to step in because Veggie boy would be dead if he didn't) I don't understand why some fans talk as if Goku steals Vegeta's fights. When the reality is that Vegeta simply fails to defeat the main adversary and it's usually left up to Goku to do so.

It's stupid to fasten blame on Vegeta. Everything it's because of WRITING, which doesn't allow Vegeta to save the day.

Yes and no. Everything relates to writing. With that said, within the series, Goku doesn't steals Vegeta's fights, he simply fails. Obviously the writers never write Vegeta into the savior of the day role.