Don't you think that Vegeta is dark horse of this tournament?

[Simere]

Outside of RoF (where he had to step in because Veggie boy would be dead if he didn't) I don't understand why some fans talk as if Goku steals Vegeta's fights. When the reality is that Vegeta simply fails to defeat the main adversary and it's usually left up to Goku to do so.

It's stupid to fasten blame on Vegeta. Everything it's because of WRITING, which doesn't allow Vegeta to save the day.

Yes and no. Everything relates to writing. With that said, within the series, Goku doesn't steals Vegeta's fights, he simply fails. Obviously the writers never write Vegeta into the savior of the day role.

And if they ever did, be sure not to give him credit for it, because it was just the writing which allowed him to.

[HeroR]

It's stupid to fasten blame on Vegeta. Everything it's because of WRITING, which doesn't allow Vegeta to save the day.

Everything in fiction is writing, so what's your point? Goku dropping his guard and getting a laser in the chest instead of killing Freeza is writing. Vegeta living past the Saiyan Saga is writing.

[Lord Beerus]

Yeah, I don't know where this whole "Goku steps in and steals Vegeta's shine" mentalility comes from. I mean, lets look at his track record in battle after the Saiyan arc:

- Kills Cui on his own
- Loses To Zarbon, but comes back stronger and stomps him
- One shots Dodoria
- Beheads Guldo with ease
- Fights intensely against Reecoome and loses. *Goku steps in and defeats Reecoome with a single elbow to the gut.*
- Kills Jeice with zero effort
- Beats around Ginyu (Technically Goku). *Goku prevents Ginyu from stealing Vegeta's body.*
- Clashes with First Form Freeza to a standstill
- Get's beaten half to death by Final Form Freeza. *Goku steps in to stop Freeza from killing him. But Freeza still kills Vegeta*
- Steps in saves Goku from Android 19 and then turns SSJ and kills Android 19 with little effort.
- Get's his ass kicked by Android 18. Badly.
- Dominates Semi-Perfect Cell, but lets Cell play him like fool and helps him become stronger by aiding Cell to absorb Android 18 and become perfect. And Perfect Cell beats him around like a beach ball. Future Trunks and Krillin save him from getting killed.
- Fights SSJ2 Goku to a draw
- Fights Majin Boo and gets beaten half to death (again). Kills himself in a vain attempt to destroy Majin Boo.
- Fights Kid Boo to give Goku time to recover his energy and get beaten half to the death (again). Mr Satan prevents him from getting killed and ceasing to exist.

[sintzu]

Vegeta never wins the crucial battles.

I would love for him to win against a serious villain for once without Goku butting in and stealing his fight.

He got Black all to himself in the manga so surely that counts for something.

The opposite happened against Zamasu in the manga, When Goku lost his power and both Zamasues were beating him around, he steped in and blew them to pieces.

[Zagacious]

I expect Vegeta to do well later on the tournament even though he hasn't done much. I think it's more likely Gohan is the dark horse who seems weak now but may transform later in the tournament.

[TBMx]

The way they have been treating Vegeta in Super I expect him to be standing in the shadow of both father and son.....again.

Vegeta's been mishandled so many times before.

When ? in every arc since his introduction he's been handled VERY well.

He's blind to the fact that he's only ever beaten jobbers and would get one shotted by his so called "rival". That's why I hate the way he's handled.

[Jigurashi]

The way they have been treating Vegeta in Super I expect him to be standing in the shadow of both father and son.....again.

Vegeta's been mishandled so many times before.

When ? in every arc since his introduction he's been handled VERY well.

He's blind to the fact that he's only ever beaten jobbers and would get one shotted by his so called "rival". That's why I hate the way he's handled.

The first part is false. I do dislike how they treat him as a rival a lot of the time though.

[TBMx]

When ? in every arc since his introduction he's been handled VERY well.

He's blind to the fact that he's only ever beaten jobbers and would get one shotted by his so called "rival". That's why I hate the way he's handled.

The first part is false. I do dislike how they treat him as a rival a lot of the time though.

Name one person Vegeta has defeated who isn't a jobber. He's beaten Pui Pui, Android 19, Ginyu, Cui, Zarbon, Guldo and Jeice. All C listers, four of which were from the Namek Saga. He ringed out three B listers with Cabba, Frost and Magetta, the latter of which he basically cheated to win. Big Whoop.

[sintzu]

Name one person Vegeta has defeated who isn't a jobber.

Goku Black in the manga.

[precita]

Since Ribianne hasn't been knocked out yet, I still wonder if she will knock out Vegeta later on.

[Jigurashi]

He's blind to the fact that he's only ever beaten jobbers and would get one shotted by his so called "rival". That's why I hate the way he's handled.

The first part is false. I do dislike how they treat him as a rival a lot of the time though.

Name one person Vegeta has defeated who isn't a jobber. He's beaten Pui Pui, Android 19, Ginyu, Cui, Zarbon, Guldo and Jeice. All C listers, four of which were from the Namek Saga. He ringed out three B listers with Cabba, Frost and Magetta, the latter of which he basically cheated to win. Big Whoop.

He has wins on Cell and Goku Black (twice in the manga and once in the anime). Funny enough, the main character hasn't beaten either of those characters. I answered your question. Also, you're using that term wrong. Many of these characters aren't "jobbers." B-list enemies is a more appropriate term as you later use. Even then, most characters only beat B-listers in this series, yes, even Goku. Ever since Z, the U7 fighters have rarely ever taken down the main adversaries.

[precita]

I think jobber has lost all meaning. Now people use it for whatever character loses any battle.

[KingKaash]

Right now, to me it feels like Vegeta doesn't have a story going for him. It's not like Android 17 had storylines and rivalries coming into the ToP but there was intrigue about how strong Android 17 really is after his recruitment fight with SSJB Goku. For Vegeta, besides Cabba I don't really see him having a story to carry out at this point. The Botamo+Magetta combo was interesting and I wanted to see how Vegeta would overcome that combo but that went away as soon as Berserk Kale blew up the arena

[Slaythe]

Right now, to me it feels like Vegeta doesn't have a story going for him. It's not like Android 17 had storylines and rivalries coming into the ToP but there was intrigue about how strong Android 17 really is after his recruitment fight with SSJB Goku. For Vegeta, besides Cabba I don't really see him having a story to carry out at this point. The Botamo+Magetta combo was interesting and I wanted to see how Vegeta would overcome that combo but that went away as soon as Berserk Kale blew up the arena

Fighting for people he loves is a story. We briefly had that in the Buu saga, not much in Super so far, I guess a bit with Future Trunks.

17 has a great dynamic because he was off screen for so long, so they have to showcase why he deserves this spot (and doing an amazing job at that). Vegeta had 70-ish episodes so he didn't get much more "story" in this arc.

I think his family is just his reason to fight. Which will be a strike contrast with Goku's.

That being said, Vegeta being so strong makes him a potential "jobber" to the final threat. As usual :/ .

[SsjCookie]

Outside of RoF (where he had to step in because Veggie boy would be dead if he didn't) I don't understand why some fans talk as if Goku steals Vegeta's fights. When the reality is that Vegeta simply fails to defeat the main adversary and it's usually left up to Goku to do so.

It's stupid to fasten blame on Vegeta. Everything it's because of WRITING, which doesn't allow Vegeta to save the day.

Yes and no. Everything relates to writing. With that said, within the series, Goku doesn't steals Vegeta's fights, he simply fails. Obviously the writers never write Vegeta into the savior of the day role.

Sigh....Vegeta only fails his fights so that Goku can take over and be the "big hero"....again.
It's bad and repetitive writing, it gets boring.
I just want Vegeta to top Goku for once when it comes to the main crucial fight.
And make him look good when he does it, is it that much to ask?!

Goku is the main character okay, but he's been ridiculously overexposed for a long time, I'm tired of him.

[HeroR]

He has wins on Cell and Goku Black (twice in the manga and once in the anime). Funny enough, the main character hasn't beaten either of those characters. I answered your question. Also, you're using that term wrong. Many of these characters aren't "jobbers." B-list enemies is a more appropriate term as you later use. Even then, most characters only beat B-listers in this series, yes, even Goku. Ever since Z, the U7 fighters have rarely ever taken down the main adversaries.

Vegeta never beat Black in the anime. He overpowered Black, Black got stronger, made endless clones, and then left to check on Zamasu.

Sigh....Vegeta only fails his fights so that Goku can take over and be the "big hero"....again.
It's bad and repetitive writing, it gets boring.
I just want Vegeta to top Goku for once when it comes to the main crucial fight.
And make him look good when he does it, is it that much to ask?!

Goku is the main character okay, but he's been ridiculously overexposed for a long time, I'm tired of him.

Vegeta fails because he was an asshole for most of Z. He could have beating Cell, but he willingly chose to let him get perfect and got his ass kicked. He also willing sold his soul in the Buu Saga, starting the whole mess with Buu.

And Goku hasn't even had a 'big hero' moment since Resurrection 'F'.

[TBMx]

The first part is false. I do dislike how they treat him as a rival a lot of the time though.

Name one person Vegeta has defeated who isn't a jobber. He's beaten Pui Pui, Android 19, Ginyu, Cui, Zarbon, Guldo and Jeice. All C listers, four of which were from the Namek Saga. He ringed out three B listers with Cabba, Frost and Magetta, the latter of which he basically cheated to win. Big Whoop.

He has wins on Cell and Goku Black (twice in the manga and once in the anime). Funny enough, the main character hasn't beaten either of those characters. I answered your question. Also, you're using that term wrong. Many of these characters aren't "jobbers." B-list enemies is a more appropriate term as you later use. Even then, most characters only beat B-listers in this series, yes, even Goku. Ever since Z, the U7 fighters have rarely ever taken down the main adversaries.

Did I ask you for moments where Vegeta looked good? No. I asked you for opponents he DEFEATED. He has neither defeated Cell or Goku Black.

Goku defeated Frieza twice and Kid Buu. He actually got major kills. And if you do want to count moments where Vegeta merely looked good before getting his ass kicked, then Goku always holds his own against higher forms of the same enemy. Everytime. I don't like characters who lack basic awareness of where they stand. Vegeta used to be delusional but I expect some character development toward realism. That is what I mean by mishandled. In addition to the fact that he doesn't rival Goku.

[SsjCookie]

He has wins on Cell and Goku Black (twice in the manga and once in the anime). Funny enough, the main character hasn't beaten either of those characters. I answered your question. Also, you're using that term wrong. Many of these characters aren't "jobbers." B-list enemies is a more appropriate term as you later use. Even then, most characters only beat B-listers in this series, yes, even Goku. Ever since Z, the U7 fighters have rarely ever taken down the main adversaries.

Vegeta never beat Black in the anime. He overpowered Black, Black got stronger, made endless clones, and then left to check on Zamasu.

Sigh....Vegeta only fails his fights so that Goku can take over and be the "big hero"....again.
It's bad and repetitive writing, it gets boring.
I just want Vegeta to top Goku for once when it comes to the main crucial fight.
And make him look good when he does it, is it that much to ask?!

Goku is the main character okay, but he's been ridiculously overexposed for a long time, I'm tired of him.

Vegeta fails because he was an asshole for most of Z. He could have beating Cell, but he willingly chose to let him get perfect and got his ass kicked. He also willing sold his soul in the Buu Saga, starting the whole mess with Buu.

And Goku hasn't even had a 'big hero' moment since Resurrection 'F'.

He is still somewhat an ass in Super, yet nowhere near the asshole he was when he was in Z.
I did expect him to be on the losing end there.
But in Super he became a good guy....somewhat, and he now not only fights for himself but for his family and earth as well.
He changed and became a likeable character while Goku stagnates and even becomes unlike-able to me.
Vegeta just deserves a mayor win this time.
But that's just MY opinion, you don't have to agree with me.

[Mercenary]

He has wins on Cell and Goku Black (twice in the manga and once in the anime). Funny enough, the main character hasn't beaten either of those characters. I answered your question. Also, you're using that term wrong. Many of these characters aren't "jobbers." B-list enemies is a more appropriate term as you later use. Even then, most characters only beat B-listers in this series, yes, even Goku. Ever since Z, the U7 fighters have rarely ever taken down the main adversaries.

Vegeta never beat Black in the anime. He overpowered Black, Black got stronger, made endless clones, and then left to check on Zamasu.

Sigh....Vegeta only fails his fights so that Goku can take over and be the "big hero"....again.
It's bad and repetitive writing, it gets boring.
I just want Vegeta to top Goku for once when it comes to the main crucial fight.
And make him look good when he does it, is it that much to ask?!

Goku is the main character okay, but he's been ridiculously overexposed for a long time, I'm tired of him.

Vegeta fails because he was an asshole for most of Z. He could have beating Cell, but he willingly chose to let him get perfect and got his ass kicked. He also willing sold his soul in the Buu Saga, starting the whole mess with Buu.

And Goku hasn't even had a 'big hero' moment since Resurrection 'F'.

He is still somewhat an ass in Super, yet nowhere near the asshole he was when he was in Z.
I did expect him to be on the losing end there.
But in Super he became a good guy....somewhat, and he now not only fights for himself but for his family and earth as well.
He changed and became a likeable character while Goku stagnates and even becomes unlike-able to me.
Vegeta just deserves a mayor win this time.
But that's just MY opinion, you don't have to agree with me.

I don't have to but I totally share your opinion dude !

[HeroR]

He is still somewhat an ass in Super, yet nowhere near the asshole he was when he was in Z.
I did expect him to be on the losing end there.
But in Super he became a good guy....somewhat, and he now not only fights for himself but for his family and earth as well.
He changed and became a likeable character while Goku stagnates and even becomes unlike-able to me.
Vegeta just deserves a mayor win this time.
But that's just MY opinion, you don't have to agree with me.

If we go by Super, the only direct fail he has is against Freeza and that's because of a flaw in his character, just like Goku getting a laser to his chest.

And Resurrection 'F' was the last time in Super Goku beat a major foe. He didn't beat Hit in the Champa Saga and he didn't beat Black or Merged Zamasu. So I really don't get the whining about Vegeta not getting a major win when no one else has gotten one since 2016.

Also, when has Vegeta mentioned his family as a motivator in this arc?