People are cutting Toei too much slack for making Trunks and Goten look and act like 6 yr olds when they're 14 yrs old.

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

Yedis
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:16 pm

Re: People are cutting Toei too much slack for making Trunks and Goten look and act like 6 yr olds when they're 14 yrs o

Post by Yedis » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:06 pm

It really isn't that big of deal. What would change if they made them a little bit taller?

User avatar
Asura
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1919
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:53 pm

Re: People are cutting Toei too much slack for making Trunks and Goten look and act like 6 yr olds when they're 14 yrs o

Post by Asura » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:22 pm

Whenever Toriyama decides to age them up and actually care about their characters, I hope they take the route of GT. I mean, they were still pretty useless in GT (although Trunks had some use in the first arc) but they were their own individual people. From a fighting perspective no one ever sees them as Goten and Trunks, they see them as Gotenks. Goten and Trunks have next to no character development because they're not seen as two individual people. They're only seen for their fusion.

I'm not saying they should never fuse like in GT, but I really liked how they were their own characters and fought on their own. I hope they take that into account when they age them up because they literally have zero character development so writing them as their own persons that fight on their own would help.

User avatar
Shi_Neko13
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:51 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: People are cutting Toei too much slack for making Trunks and Goten look and act like 6 yr olds when they're 14 yrs o

Post by Shi_Neko13 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:28 pm

I wish they'd become more than they are but the chance for that was against Buu, but grown up versions might be cool. In general, to enjoy Super I completely ignore the Epilogue of Z and whatever ages they're supposed to be there, because unlike Z, Super has never explicitly said how much if any amount of time has passed and can only be guessed at by the uses of the Earth's Dragonballs, which doesn't put it currently many years after the battle with Buu.

JulianStyles
Banned
Posts: 346
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:40 pm

Re: People are cutting Toei too much slack for making Trunks and Goten look and act like 6 yr olds when they're 14 yrs o

Post by JulianStyles » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:35 pm

They did the same thing with Goku. Chill out. I knew 14 year olds that still havnt hit puberty. Maybe in Japan genetics more often puberty comes late.

User avatar
MR.Mark
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1722
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:11 am

Re: People are cutting Toei too much slack for making Trunks and Goten look and act like 6 yr olds when they're 14 yrs o

Post by MR.Mark » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:45 pm

Even more fans are cutting Toriyama to much slack for never aging Bulma's parents a single day since the moment he introduced them in the manga.

Kanious
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 272
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:47 pm

Re: People are cutting Toei too much slack for making Trunks and Goten look and act like 6 yr olds when they're 14 yrs o

Post by Kanious » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:27 pm

Shi_Neko13 wrote:I wish they'd become more than they are but the chance for that was against Buu, but grown up versions might be cool. In general, to enjoy Super I completely ignore the Epilogue of Z and whatever ages they're supposed to be there, because unlike Z, Super has never explicitly said how much if any amount of time has passed and can only be guessed at by the uses of the Earth's Dragonballs, which doesn't put it currently many years after the battle with Buu.
wrong. On Black's arc, was shown that Trunks's timeline was in year 797, and Bulma said that he would go 17 years back in the past... i don't remember if 780 was written on the timemachine's panel. but that was the year of the present timeline.

User avatar
Grimlock
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8240
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:11 pm
Location: Cybertron.

Re: People are cutting Toei too much slack for making Trunks and Goten look and act like 6 yr olds when they're 14 yrs o

Post by Grimlock » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:46 pm

Hit!! wrote:This community should be way more infuriated and enraged by this bullshit, but for some reason, no one seems to care.
Huh... No. I've been complaining about that whenever I have the chance to talk about the downside of Dragon Ball Super. I even make a point of listing this real problem as one of the worst, biggest and that would always appear in a TOP 3 list of terrible things that keep persisting in Dragon Ball Super. I just don't complain about it more often because I'd look like a broken record.
Hit!! wrote:This is the worst problem i find with Super's narrative. WHY THE FUCK AREN'T THESE CHARACTERS AGEING??? WHY?? WHYYYYYYY???
Indeed it is. But if we be rational about it, only Trunks and Marron are the real problems here. We never saw Goten as a teenager, therefore, we can assume he inherited Saiyans' characteristic about being small for long time. But as for Trunks we know how he looks like when he's 13/14, the fact that present Trunks is smaller than his future version is a contradiction. Marron is going to be as taller as her mother, which means she should be a little bit taller than she is now, which also means that her height now is also a problem.

Back in 2013, I'd say they did that for nostalgia purposes. However, the nostalgia factor is long gone now, it doesn't work anymore and they keep Trunks and Marron short for... Huh... Why they keep them small for fuck's sake!? :| One of the coolest things in Dragon Ball is watching the characters growing up (literally and through character development), so Toriyama and Toei keeping them short sounds like an offense, giving us a middle finger to the viewer who likes this aspect and to the past of Dragon Ball.
Kanious wrote:wrong. On Black's arc, was shown that Trunks's timeline was in year 797, and Bulma said that he would go 17 years back in the past... i don't remember if 780 was written on the timemachine's panel. but that was the year of the present timeline.
No. The AGE doesn't appear anywhere else besides Cell saga. Future Trunks saga takes place in AGE 796, actually. Which means in the present is AGE 779.
Goodbye friend. You are weak, so you must be destroyed!

~ War of the Dinobots ~

User avatar
Hit!!
Regular
Posts: 667
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:31 am
Location: Dominican Republic

Re: People are cutting Toei too much slack for making Trunks and Goten look and act like 6 yr olds when they're 14 yrs o

Post by Hit!! » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:06 am

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:Topic Creator...Werent you the guy that went BERSERK on a guy for "Hating on Super" and "Being too Negative"? Not that I disagree but now you seem to be a hypocrite... That said I dont want to waste my anger and or be displeased by Super at this point in the game. I simply dont have the emotional connection required to be frustrated.
First of all, i did not go "berserk", i just called out the cancer that has been infecting this sub forum for the past couple of months or so. And in that exact same comment i admitted that i can be really critical of Super sometimes, but my point was that i always give reasoning as to why i believe what i believe and actually defend my point of view with arguments not insulting those who disagree with me and saying stuff like "super is garbage lol". If you read my comment well, you would've understood where i was coming from.

Being very critical is NOT the same as saying "super is complete and utter garbage" in every argument or debate you engage in. I criticize a lot of things in Super, but i enjoy the show and i also praise what in my opinion needs to be praised.

That comment where i supposedly went "berserk" was against trolls, not honest users who are critical of the series. For instance, the forumer "Jinzoningen MULE" is often very critical of the series and i myself have had several disagreements with him, but he is rational about it and defends his point of view with actual arguments, something that i respect, despite not always agreeing with him. Very different from the case of "PeanutSaiyan" that only comes to this forum to talk about how aweful Super is and how his friend that is an old time DBZ fan is "disgusted" by this series.

So you come to a sub forum dedicated to a series which you think is an abomination, to let people there know how much you hate the series?? If that isn't troll behaviour, i don't know what is!!

(I'm not talking about you btw, i'm talking about the people who do that).
Last edited by Hit!! on Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Cure Dragon 255
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5102
Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 5:23 pm

Re: People are cutting Toei too much slack for making Trunks and Goten look and act like 6 yr olds when they're 14 yrs o

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:08 am

And now I understand your point. Yes. That's very understandable.
Marz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm "Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

HeroR
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8306
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:28 pm

Re: People are cutting Toei too much slack for making Trunks and Goten look and act like 6 yr olds when they're 14 yrs o

Post by HeroR » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:17 am

Asura wrote:Whenever Toriyama decides to age them up and actually care about their characters, I hope they take the route of GT. I mean, they were still pretty useless in GT (although Trunks had some use in the first arc) but they were their own individual people. From a fighting perspective no one ever sees them as Goten and Trunks, they see them as Gotenks. Goten and Trunks have next to no character development because they're not seen as two individual people. They're only seen for their fusion.

I'm not saying they should never fuse like in GT, but I really liked how they were their own characters and fought on their own. I hope they take that into account when they age them up because they literally have zero character development so writing them as their own persons that fight on their own would help.
Not true since Trunks got a lot of development in the Future Trunks Saga and Goten got a little development since he now see the Great Saiyaman as lame.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

User avatar
Hit!!
Regular
Posts: 667
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:31 am
Location: Dominican Republic

Re: People are cutting Toei too much slack for making Trunks and Goten look and act like 6 yr olds when they're 14 yrs o

Post by Hit!! » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:21 am

Grimlock wrote:
Hit!! wrote:This community should be way more infuriated and enraged by this bullshit, but for some reason, no one seems to care.
Huh... No. I've been complaining about that whenever I have the chance to talk about the downside of Dragon Ball Super. I even make a point of listing this real problem as one of the worst, biggest and that would always appear in a TOP 3 list of terrible things that keep persisting in Dragon Ball Super. I just don't complain about it more often because I'd look like a broken record.
Which is why i said "this community", not you as an individual.

I just feel like some people get so upset over stupid things, but don't care about more important things that actually hurt the series a lot more.

For example, the repeated animation issue, that was very underwhelming and dissapointing indeed, but was blown waaay out of proportion by some people. But i guess some of us simply give more importance to the story, and others are more concerned about animation. Everybody is different.

I was infuriated when Kale tanked Goku's SSB kamehameha, but most people didn't seem to be bothered by it. The same when Trunks recieved all those massive power boosts in the Zamasu arc out of nowhere, most people didn't seem to care about it. But if Naoki Tate does an action cut full of interesting angles and a lot of movement, but a little bit off model, people lose their fucking shit and start saying that the animation is garbage and bla bla bla!!

User avatar
Hit!!
Regular
Posts: 667
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:31 am
Location: Dominican Republic

Re: People are cutting Toei too much slack for making Trunks and Goten look and act like 6 yr olds when they're 14 yrs o

Post by Hit!! » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:22 am

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:And now I understand your point. Yes. That's very understandable.
Thank you.

User avatar
Asura
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1919
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:53 pm

Re: People are cutting Toei too much slack for making Trunks and Goten look and act like 6 yr olds when they're 14 yrs o

Post by Asura » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:23 am

HeroR wrote:
Asura wrote:Whenever Toriyama decides to age them up and actually care about their characters, I hope they take the route of GT. I mean, they were still pretty useless in GT (although Trunks had some use in the first arc) but they were their own individual people. From a fighting perspective no one ever sees them as Goten and Trunks, they see them as Gotenks. Goten and Trunks have next to no character development because they're not seen as two individual people. They're only seen for their fusion.

I'm not saying they should never fuse like in GT, but I really liked how they were their own characters and fought on their own. I hope they take that into account when they age them up because they literally have zero character development so writing them as their own persons that fight on their own would help.
Not true since Trunks got a lot of development in the Future Trunks Saga and Goten got a little development since he now see the Great Saiyaman as lame.
What development did Trunks get? He got screen time and he told Future Trunks to get his shit together. What exactly was the development there though? Did he learn a lesson or something? I didn't notice any changes in maturity afterwards. And yeah Goten seeing the Great Saiyaman as lame isn't exactly development to be proud of given that Goten literally has no character in the first place and needs a hell of a lot more than just that.

User avatar
fadeddreams5
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5156
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:53 pm
Location: New York

Re: People are cutting Toei too much slack for making Trunks and Goten look and act like 6 yr olds when they're 14 yrs o

Post by fadeddreams5 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:41 am

Lord Frieza wrote:Goku age 15

Image

Saiyan kids are really short.
You can't really use that as an argument because
a) Kid Gohan was 9 when he fought Cell, and looked like a 15 year old.
b) Future Trunks was shown in his teen years, and he looked like a teen.
c) If the above is any indication, half-saiyans grow normally.
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super

User avatar
JulieYBM
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 16503
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm

Re: People are cutting Toei too much slack for making Trunks and Goten look and act like 6 yr olds when they're 14 yrs o

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:50 am

I have no poops to care about things the staff care not about.
She/Her💕 💜 💙
progesterone princess, estradiol empress
Lucifer's bimbo daughter

HeroR
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8306
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:28 pm

Re: People are cutting Toei too much slack for making Trunks and Goten look and act like 6 yr olds when they're 14 yrs o

Post by HeroR » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:53 am

Asura wrote:
What development did Trunks get? He got screen time and he told Future Trunks to get his shit together. What exactly was the development there though? Did he learn a lesson or something? I didn't notice any changes in maturity afterwards. And yeah Goten seeing the Great Saiyaman as lame isn't exactly development to be proud of given that Goten literally has no character in the first place and needs a hell of a lot more than just that.
For one, Trunks has a much greater understanding why his world is at peace and it's all thanks to Future Trunks. He was so desperate to help his future counterpart that he wanted to go to the future and fight. It wasn't 'happy play time', he wanted to do something and was desperate, something that wasn't there in the Buu Saga where he didn't take Buu seriously even after he murdered everyone or even the retelling of Resurrection 'F' when it was more of a game to fight Freeza. The only reason why these changes are not apparent at the moment is because Trunks has no role in this current arc. Even then, we see him trying to be a good big brother and stood by his mother's side when he really wanted to train.

For Goten, that is still development when you claimed he had none. He also does have a character and we saw it in this very arc where he was trying to tell his father how to give a proper gift and even before when he wanted to fight Hit to 'avenge' his father.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

User avatar
Lord Frieza
I Live Here
Posts: 3801
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:36 pm

Re: People are cutting Toei too much slack for making Trunks and Goten look and act like 6 yr olds when they're 14 yrs o

Post by Lord Frieza » Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:52 pm

fadeddreams5 wrote:
Lord Frieza wrote:Goku age 15

Image

Saiyan kids are really short.
You can't really use that as an argument because
a) Kid Gohan was 9 when he fought Cell, and looked like a 15 year old.
b) Future Trunks was shown in his teen years, and he looked like a teen.
c) If the above is any indication, half-saiyans grow normally.
I cannot? but I just did :P.

and I also can becuse....

A) No to children are identical even from the same paraents. Gohan had rage boost and a tail, Goten was neither but could go Super Saiyan as a child. The genes mix differently with each child and Goten could be taking after daddy.

B) Considering that Trunks's trip to the future had very long reaching and seemingly inexplicable effects on the main timeline, you could even put our Trunks genetics being a bit different. If it can effect something like when and were Goku picks up a virus, it could have altered the events around his birth. Vegeta's attude may have alterde due to not only liveing in Goku's SS shadow but also Future Trunks's as well, little things may have changed like when mom and dad hooked up and that alters the time and events around his conseption and by extention his gentics. It speculastion granted but its a possibility.

User avatar
Baggie_Saiyan
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10283
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:22 pm
Location: Atlantis.

Re: People are cutting Toei too much slack for making Trunks and Goten look and act like 6 yr olds when they're 14 yrs o

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:08 pm

Because what does being "infuriating" accomplish? Absolutely nothing. Toei aren't gonna suddenly make Goten and Trunks more taller cuz a bunch of people on the internet are "infuriated". And besides what does them looking older accomplish anyway? It's not like they're in the narrative much at all.

User avatar
VegettoEX
Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
Posts: 17541
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:10 pm
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: People are cutting Toei too much slack for making Trunks and Goten look and act like 6 yr olds when they're 14 yrs o

Post by VegettoEX » Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:10 pm

Hit!! wrote:Basically that!!

This community should be way more infuriated and enraged by this bullshit, but for some reason, no one seems to care. This is the worst problem i find with Super's narrative. WHY THE FUCK AREN'T THESE CHARACTERS AGEING??? WHY?? WHYYYYYYY???
For many of us, we've made this point ad nauseam already. I can't keep saying it over and over for two years in a row. If at this point they haven't done anything about it, there's nothing left I can do with the power and energy I have that I am simultaneously also willing to dump into said point for the level that I actually care about it.

I'd wager many people feel the same way, which is why here in August 2017 there's relatively little conversation about it compared to when Battle of Gods came out in 2013.

If you want to fight the good fight, more power to you... but when you put it in context as explained above, please understand why you're going to get very little in return at this point.
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::

User avatar
funrush
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1958
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:54 pm
Location: United States

Re: People are cutting Toei too much slack for making Trunks and Goten look and act like 6 yr olds when they're 14 yrs o

Post by funrush » Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:26 pm

If you want to be "infuriated" about Goten and Trunks in Super, their height should be the least of your problems. Last arc they tried to ship 14 year old Trunks with a 50 year old woman.

Maybe we'll get a timeskip soon?

Post Reply