How powerful do you think Jiren is?

[Legion]

If the scaling remains linearly consistent, Jiren will surpass the degree of speed stated to be thousands of times greater than Dyspo's generic movement, the same speed that befuddled Champa in this recent episode. I'm more inclined to think he could be the ningen that Whis was referring to.

A speed that Goku SSJB counter with a good tactic. Goku and Hit both beat Dyspo to the punch mid-movement. Champa wasn't in "battle mode" in that moment.

Also to me it just seemed another comedic moment to make Champa look like an idiot. It's like when he appeared intimidated by Hit and then he was ready to whoop his ass back in the U6 arc.

[Bullza]

If he's stronger than Beerus then he's probably stronger than Super Saiyan Blue Vegito as well going by a couple comments.

I don't think it'd be too surprising really because he's gotta be stronger than Merged Zamasu surely and he wasn't that far off Vegito.

[Ki Breaker]

I doubt Jiren is stronger than a God of Destruction. Whatever mortal was mentioned as being stronger than such, it is likely he/she dwells in one of the non-participant universes.

Then why will the mortal be mentioned when asked about their chances in this tournament?

The point of that statement is to deliver an "Oh shit, really?" moment, but Whis' never actually said he knew if that mortal would be in the tournament or if that mortal was even from a participating universe, so I'm not willing to assume such.

Would you mind rephrasing that? afraid I am unable to understand your logic, what it seems right now is you are saying when asked if they have a chance to win the tournament, whis simply decided to talk about an universe which isn't participating at all..
Both berrus and whis gave very good explanations of that mortal, saying he is stonger than the god who berrus lost to, how would they know the mortal was stonger than that particular god if they don't know who the mortal was or if both those mortal and god haven't met yet?
If whis didn't know who the mortal was, he would simply say there is said to be a mortal, not a solid there is a mortal

[TheOne]

Then why will the mortal be mentioned when asked about their chances in this tournament?

The point of that statement is to deliver an "Oh shit, really?" moment, but Whis' never actually said he knew if that mortal would be in the tournament or if that mortal was even from a participating universe, so I'm not willing to assume such.

Would you mind rephrasing that? afraid I am unable to understand your logic, what it seems right now is you are saying when asked if they have a chance to win the tournament, whis simply decided to talk about an universe which isn't participating at all..
Both berrus and whis gave very good explanations of that mortal, saying he is stonger than the god who berrus lost to, how would they know the mortal was stonger than that particular god if they don't know who the mortal was or if both those mortal and god haven't met yet?
If whis didn't know who the mortal was, he would simply say there is said to be a mortal, not a solid there is a mortal

You guys are forgetting about the exhibition match.

Belmoud seemed to not even know who Jiren was. He asked him if he'd be able to beat Goku in the tournament. Toppo says I don't know, but if I fall my friend Jiren will handle it.

First off, if Belmoud knew Jiren, he wouldn't be concerned at all about if Toppo could beat him when they time came. If he knew Jiren was stronger than him and he was stronger than Beerus, he wouldn't of given a crap about how strong Toppo was in comparison to Goku. He'd know Jiren would handle this tournament solo. Context clues.

You guys can twist this around as much as you want, but you keep making it seem like Goku and company are right behind God of Destructions level when we JUST saw how a little bit of Sidras power was enough to bring Frieza and Goku to their knees. All it took to destroy that ball of energy was A SINGLE BREATH. Not even worthy of Beerus using his hands.

There's still an enormous power gap between Goku and Beerus, and you guys think he can handle someone stronger than beerus right now. Absurd.

[Helios518]

I think he's stronger than Beerus, but weaker than Vegetto.

I don't think he's Vegetto Blue stronger either. Vegetto Blue's power is SSB Goku x SSB Vegeta... which is RIDICULOUS. I don't believe Jiren is that strong, but I can believe he's either close to, just as strong, or maybe even stronger than Beerus. And there are still four more universes stronger than Jiren's too... o.O

The Potara's power isn't "A x B". That's false otherwise Base Vegetto could've defeated Boohan, which wasn't the case as he went SSJ almost immediately. The "x" likely just means "cross".

[Duo]

You guys are forgetting about the exhibition match.

Belmoud seemed to not even know who Jiren was. He asked him if he'd be able to beat Goku in the tournament. Toppo says I don't know, but if I fall my friend Jiren will handle it.

First off, if Belmoud knew Jiren, he wouldn't be concerned at all about if Toppo could beat him when they time came. If he knew Jiren was stronger than him and he was stronger than Beerus, he wouldn't of given a crap about how strong Toppo was in comparison to Goku. He'd know Jiren would handle this tournament solo. Context clues.

You guys can twist this around as much as you want, but you keep making it seem like Goku and company are right behind God of Destructions level when we JUST saw how a little bit of Sidras power was enough to bring Frieza and Goku to their knees. All it took to destroy that ball of energy was A SINGLE BREATH. Not even worthy of Beerus using his hands.

There's still an enormous power gap between Goku and Beerus, and you guys think he can handle someone stronger than beerus right now. Absurd.

I'm unsure based on your phrasing if you're including me in that, so I feel the need to clarify that I do not think any participant in the tournament could effectively fight a God of Destruction. I agree with all the points you made.

[TheOne]

You guys are forgetting about the exhibition match.

Belmoud seemed to not even know who Jiren was. He asked him if he'd be able to beat Goku in the tournament. Toppo says I don't know, but if I fall my friend Jiren will handle it.

First off, if Belmoud knew Jiren, he wouldn't be concerned at all about if Toppo could beat him when they time came. If he knew Jiren was stronger than him and he was stronger than Beerus, he wouldn't of given a crap about how strong Toppo was in comparison to Goku. He'd know Jiren would handle this tournament solo. Context clues.

You guys can twist this around as much as you want, but you keep making it seem like Goku and company are right behind God of Destructions level when we JUST saw how a little bit of Sidras power was enough to bring Frieza and Goku to their knees. All it took to destroy that ball of energy was A SINGLE BREATH. Not even worthy of Beerus using his hands.

There's still an enormous power gap between Goku and Beerus, and you guys think he can handle someone stronger than beerus right now. Absurd.

I'm unsure based on your phrasing if you're including me in that, so I feel the need to clarify that I do not think any participant in the tournament could effectively fight a God of Destruction. I agree with all the points you made.

It was towards Ki Breaker lol

When I said you guys, I was referring to all the people who swear up and down that it's Jiren.

[SonReggie]

I don't really care. He's an underdeveloped bore with no personality.

[Polyphase Avatron]

More powerful than Hit, Goku, and Vegeta. Less powerful than Beerus.

[Ki Breaker]

It was towards Ki Breaker lol

When I said you guys, I was referring to all the people who swear up and down that it's Jiren.

I don't remember being as hung up on it as you seem to be on grouping everyone together without any knowledge about their posts on said subject...
All I did here was provide counter for his points, a healthy discussion..
In a different thread I have been giving points on how it may not be jiren..

The only person hung up on something is you here, not even considering the possibility of both events when nobody knows for sure, is, simply put, being ignorant..

[TheOne]

It was towards Ki Breaker lol

When I said you guys, I was referring to all the people who swear up and down that it's Jiren.

I don't remember being as hung up on it as you seem to be on grouping everyone together without any knowledge about their posts on said subject...
All I did here was provide counter for his points, a healthy discussion..
In a different thread I have been giving points on how it may not be jiren..

The only person hung up on something is you here, not even considering the possibility of both events when nobody knows for sure, is, simply put, being ignorant..

There's evidence supporting both sides, but there's even more evidence that says it's not.

Choosing to stick on a side of a certain debate does not mean someone is ignorant. I am not above acknowledging what you've had to say, but at the end of the day there's not enough to actually support what you're saying.

[Ki Breaker]

It was towards Ki Breaker lol

When I said you guys, I was referring to all the people who swear up and down that it's Jiren.

I don't remember being as hung up on it as you seem to be on grouping everyone together without any knowledge about their posts on said subject...
All I did here was provide counter for his points, a healthy discussion..
In a different thread I have been giving points on how it may not be jiren..

The only person hung up on something is you here, not even considering the possibility of both events when nobody knows for sure, is, simply put, being ignorant..

There's evidence supporting both sides, but there's even more evidence that says it's not.

Choosing to stick on a side of a certain debate does not mean someone is ignorant. I am not above acknowledging what you've had to say, but at the end of the day there's not enough to actually support what you're saying.

Choosing side dosen't mean someone is ignorant, but blatantly disrespecting and disregarding anyone opposing you in said argument is..
When there is evidence on both sides and neither side knows which one is correct, which evidence is more valuable can't be determined..

[KingKaash]

I think he's stronger than Beerus, but weaker than Vegetto.

It seems like you're implying that SSJB Vegetto is stronger than Beerus. How do you know that? What are you basing that off of? Because I don't think SSJB Vegetto can even beat Beerus

[emperior]

I think he is very near Beerus in terms of power. So after Goku beats him he will also be near Beerus, so that next arc he can fight with the strongest mortal.

[Potara_Vegetto]

I think he's stronger than Beerus, but weaker than Vegetto.

It seems like you're implying that SSJB Vegetto is stronger than Beerus. How do you know that? What are you basing that off of? Because I don't think SSJB Vegetto can even beat Beerus

"What a terrible ki. I've never seen such a powerful light."
"Your position as god surpasses our understanding."
"His power has not only increased, but I feel it has expanded infinitely."
- Comments about Zamasu Gattai

"You are only a human, but you have a power that surpasses the gods." - Zamasu Gattai. < He's not referring the Kaiohshins because we know that Goku and Vegeta already surpassed every Kaiohshin since the Boo saga.

Goku SS3 was easily defeated with 2 weak strikes from Beerus, but Goku fought Beerus using his base form again, he was able to resist normal punches from Beerus in his base form.

Goku SS3 and Vegeta SS2 weren't able to keep up a fight with Super Boo (Gotenks or Gohan), but with the Potara fusion, Vegetto was able to almost kill Super Boo without using his full power.

The Boo saga Vegetto (SS1), was as powerful as Goku SS4, now you have a base on how powerful a fusion between Goku and Vegeta is. Even if Goku Blue has 8% of Beeru's power, Vegetto would be stronger, that's not just a multiplier, its a potentialization and Vegetto still have that boost, a fusion between rivals are stronger than an ordinary fusion.

[hardcorefakes]

Jiren>Vermoud>Beerus.

That's what i go with until proven he's not the Mortal Whis was talking about.

Why does it have to be "proven otherwise" when it was never stated in the first place? Shouldn't that be the other way around; prove that it is Jiren.

[GodVegetto91]

Jiren>Vermoud>Beerus.

That's what i go with until proven he's not the Mortal Whis was talking about.

Why does it have to be "proven otherwise" when it was never stated in the first place? Shouldn't that be the other way around; prove that it is Jiren.

You're dead wrong. Goku asked Whis if they had any chance at all in winning this tournament, to which Whis replied: "I don't know much about the other universes, but there is a mortal somewhere even a God of Destruction can't defeat, and that GoD happens to be even stronger than Beerus-sama!" This was in response to Goku asking if they could win in THIS tournament!
And in combination with all of that, Jiren has been hyped up as no one before! As someone absolutely crazy, and to make matters worse for you guys, Goku is getting a new Transformation in order to match it! And i certainly don't see how this new legendary Form that's been hyped up so much by now, can possibly still be weaker than Beerus! It just can't, he will surpass the SSJ Blue Vegetto that we saw earlier in the Zamasu arc.

So NO. There is more reason for me to assume he IS the mortal Whis spoke about earlier, than that he's not.

[hardcorefakes]

Jiren>Vermoud>Beerus.

That's what i go with until proven he's not the Mortal Whis was talking about.

Why does it have to be "proven otherwise" when it was never stated in the first place? Shouldn't that be the other way around; prove that it is Jiren.

Goku asked Whis if they had any chance at all in winning this tournament, to which Whis replied: "I don't know much about the other universes, but there is a mortal somewhere even a God of Destruction can't defeat, and that GoD happens to be even stronger than Beerus-sama!" This was in response to Goku asking if they could win in THIS tournament!

Couple of things:

1. Whis and Beerus would point this universe out. They know which GoD it is. If their universe was participating, then Beerus would've already given up hope, as there is no way that U7 could defeat such a being, even if they all attacked this individual at the same time. They wouldn't keep U7 in the dark about this universe if it were relevant to the tournament.

2. Just because Goku asked if they had a chance to win in the tournament doesn't mean Whis was referring to a fighter from it. It's intentionally vague. Whis was more pointing out just how powerful mortals can get, and that U7 should keep that in mind when facing the other universes. It was an implicit word of caution. Again, Beerus and Whis know this GoD, and if they know the god, they know the universe. And they would outright say it. They wouldn't even have to know who Jiren is, they would literally just point out U11. Goku can't even beat a non-serious Beerus, there's no way he'd be able to stand up to a being above even that.

We haven't even seen anything yet to put Jiren at Beerus' level.

[wolflonnie]

Very close to the GoDs' power, I think about 85-90% Beerus' full power. So very borderline between GoD and SSBKK tier.

[Polyphase Avatron]

I have a theory that Jiren may have mastered the ability to move without thinking first, like Whis was trying to teach Goku and Vegeta.