show do not tell. db super writers need to understand that

[Boo Machine]

But without the moon and tail. It's almost exactly the same as using ssg without the ritual.

A line is important, because we still don't know why he can acess the form. They show us that he can use SSG, but I'm asking how? He didn't use the ritual, so how?

You don't have to quote the entire thing, that post was way to big to see twice.

Yeah, sure without the moon and the tail it would be dumb. But that isn't a situation that has happened, and when/ if it does I'll be there with you holding my torches and posting my #NotMyDragonball twitter posts.

Because he absorbed the power, and they even said he still has the power inside him. Obviously this makes the last bit of the fight between Goku and Beerus a little confusing and I also was hoping they didn't do it this way, but I guess for some reason they felt it necessary to copy the movie to a T.

And there appears to be a lot of evidence of the "Absorbed power thing" that we saw in RoF be quietly retconed in future arcs, and with this appearance now tells me that "Abosorbed God" just means he has access to SS God.

Now I'm not telling you to believe alI that because I'm well aware none of that was a concrete answer. However I can go with this because, Until they say otherwise there really is no other way besides the original " he just absorbed the power". I have no reason not to believe it. It would just be inconsistent with the first 2 arcs (and perhaps the Jelly Vegeta arc), which is a bad mark against the show.

[MajinMan]

I want them to explain how Goku can fly after this tournament ends because we haven't seen him do it for 8 episodes.

[Miracles]

Was it not stated by Beerus that Goku had absorbed SSG's power? They even showed us that ssj1 goku = ssg goku at that point. Goku said he felt no different and was fighting Beerus as good as he was before.

"It appears your Super Saiyan god powers did not disappear due to some time limit. Rather the power completely fused within your very being. The god's red brilliance...is still burning brightly in you like a flame."~Beerus Episode 13.

"You scrape together the power of five Saiyans...and get a patchwork-like Super Saiyan god. You made it your own and perfected it..." ~ Beerus Episode 14.

[The_Destroyer]

But without the moon and tail. It's almost exactly the same as using ssg without the ritual.

A line is important, because we still don't know why he can acess the form. They show us that he can use SSG, but I'm asking how? He didn't use the ritual, so how?

You don't have to quote the entire thing, that post was way to big to see twice.

Yeah, sure without the moon and the tail it would be dumb. But that isn't a situation that has happened, and when/ if it does I'll be there with you holding my torches and posting my #NotMyDragonball twitter posts.

Because he absorbed the power, and they even said he still has the power inside him. Obviously this makes the last bit of the fight between Goku and Beerus a little confusing and I also was hoping they didn't do it this way, but I guess for some reason they felt it necessary to copy the movie to a T.

And there appears to be a lot of evidence of the "Absorbed power thing" that we saw in RoF be quietly retconed in future arcs, and with this appearance now tells me that "Abosorbed God" just means he has access to SS God.

Now I'm not telling you to believe alI that because I'm well aware none of that was a concrete answer. However I can go with this because, Until they say otherwise there really is no other way besides the original " he just absorbed the power". I have no reason not to believe it. It would just be inconsistent with the first 2 arcs (and perhaps the Jelly Vegeta arc), which is a bad mark against the show.

Sorry about quoting the whole thing; I'm on mobile so it's more difficult for me to edit quotes.

I like your explanation but I just don't want to continue to subscribe to headcanon. I feel a lot of the unexplained in super requires subscribing to it. I mean wouldn't you be much happier if they explained ss rage and this?

Was it not stated by Beerus that Goku had absorbed SSG's power? They even showed us that ssj1 goku = ssg goku at that point. Goku said he felt no different and was fighting Beerus as good as he was before.

"It appears your Super Saiyan god powers did not disappear due to some time limit. Rather the power completely fused within your very being. The god's red brilliance...is still burning brightly in you like a flame."~Beerus Episode 13.

"You scrape together the power of five Saiyans...and get a patchwork-like Super Saiyan god. You made it your own and perfected it..." ~ Beerus Episode 14.

That's what I was talking about. He absorbed its power and then they showed us ssj goku being able to put up the same fight as ssg.

I want them to explain how Goku can fly after this tournament ends because we haven't seen him do it for 8 episodes.

I know you think you're being clever but it doesn't work out considering we got an explanation for that.

[Miracles]

That's what I was talking about. He absorbed its power and then they showed us ssj goku being able to put up the same fight as ssg.

No you claimed the story implied that red went away and was only temporary and couldn't be used anymore.
And you want an explanation of it's current return for that reason which is wrong.

[The_Destroyer]

That's what I was talking about. He absorbed its power and then they showed us ssj goku being able to put up the same fight as ssg.

No you claimed the story implied that red went away and was only temporary and couldn't be used anymore.
And you want an explanation of it's current return for that reason which is wrong.

There is no need to use it when ssj1 = ssg, which was clearly shown in BoG

[Boo Machine]

Sorry about quoting the whole thing; I'm on mobile so it's more difficult for me to edit quotes.

I like your explanation but I just don't want to continue to subscribe to headcanon. I feel a lot of the unexplained in super requires subscribing to it. I mean wouldn't you be much happier if they explained ss rage and this?

Yeah, A fair amount of what I said could be considered Headcanon, I won't argue that. SSJ god I don't really care if they explain because I don't feel it would effect much. If anything an explanation would make me happier that everyone else is happier.

However SSJ rage doesn't have that luxury. It was a huge turning point and it has no information attached to it at this point in time. Now that's a good example of not making an attempt. Even if I do like the form.

I don't really view SSJ god and Rage to be the same situation.

[Miracles]

There is no need to use it when ssj1 = ssg, which was clearly shown in BoG

No, Beerus even stated in BOG that SSJ1 was a" powered-down" version of SSJG.

[The_Destroyer]

There is no need to use it when ssj1 = ssg, which was clearly shown in BoG

No, Beerus even stated in BOG that SSJ1 was a" powered-down" version of SSJG.

Huh,really? Movie or Super?

But tell me, do you honestly think that Toei,before this arc was concieved, always had the intention of letting Goku use SSG again? When they wrote the black,rof,and uni 6 arcs, did they write those arcs with the belief that Goku could use ssg? Because it is clear to me that they just now decided to do it because the manga did it, otherwise they would have used it earlier like Toyotoro.

[Miracles]

There is no need to use it when ssj1 = ssg, which was clearly shown in BoG

No, Beerus even stated in BOG that SSJ1 was a" powered-down" version of SSJG.

Huh,really? Movie or Super?

But tell me, do you honestly think that Toei,before this arc was concieved, always had the intention of letting Goku use SSG again? When they wrote the black,rof,and uni 6 arcs, did they write those arcs with the belief that Goku could use ssg? Because it is clear to me that they just now decided to do it because the manga did it, otherwise they would have used it earlier like Toyotoro.

Regardless when TOEI decided to use Red again, SSJG clearly was left open for use at anytime.
It was stated in BOG BTW.

[Asura]

Are you talking about Super or DBZ?!

talk about db super more specificly the dyspo vs hit fight. 10 min were only talking between them and reactions from champa and beerus

Ahh I pine for those days but if this is the modern reaction to even the bare exposition that we get in Super it's no wonder why we have a product seemingly made for those with ADHD.

Yep, gotta agree with this ADHD sentiment. Rarely ever are the fights stopped in Super to explain stuff. I don't even know why someone would complain about this though since DBZ was like, known for doing this sort of shit. So if you didn't mind it in DBZ it makes no sense as to why you'd be upset with it in Super.

I'm perfectly happy with all the exposition as it makes fights last longer and fights lasting over an episode (or even just one entire episode, honestly) are almost non-existent in Super aside from the big battles at the end of the arcs.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Here's the thing. They aren't they aren't even trying at all.
They don't feel you or I as an audience are worth even the barest attempts at planning, creativity, or basic story telling.

They are writing Super as if they know that the fanbase will continue to return no matter how bad or how little effort they put into it. I literally don't care what the reason is, I'm just much more insulted that they continually show that they don't feel they even have to try and can skate by arc after arc on the Dragonball name alone. That's the infuriating part, we all deserve better than what we got.

Trying with what? An explanation? Because if so, then yeah. Trying to give us an explanation would mean we got some throw away line. I'm perfectly aware of that, I'm not some crazy person who is hearing words that aren't being said, as far as you're aware of. They don't explain everything but if you're saying they explain nothing ever That's not true. This entire last episode was basically one giant exposition of how Hit and Dyspos fight works. If they weren't trying they would have just had Dyspo knock around Hit a bit then have Hit turn it around because reasons.

But if you're saying they aren't trying with anything at all, then that's also false. If the fanbase is returning then there is some merit to it that other people see. No one would bother to watch a show they absolutely hated just because it has the name of a franchise they like. That would be insane. Which is why the whole "I'm dropping super" comment has become a tiny meme. It's said so often but it's rarely followed up on.

I don't deny Toei drops the ball quite a bit. But On the case of SSJ god, I stand by that it doesn't need an explanation. I don't feel the How or why would make much difference. I'm more concerned about whether it continues to play an active role or not or if it's just here for this episode to remind us that it exists. Which would be stupid and annoying.

Okay, let's just give Goku Ozzaru again and give the viewer zero explanation. I mean he could use the form before right? The viewer can piece it together.

Like you said, Whis could have mentioned that he learned to access it again through training or whatever, but they didn't even do that. Wouldn't make it less of an asspull but it'd be far better. This show simply doesn't care.

Sure, Why not. Give him a tail again and put him under the moon and you're good to go. Of course the viewer can piece it together. Don't see an issue there.

But that's my point. If such a throw away line like "He trained for it" is good enough then I just can't see it as important. You would just have a lame explanation and people would still be angry. What difference would "he trained for it" make?

I hate how they brought SSG back with literally no explanation, but kept cutting away to explain the Hit vs Dyspo fight, when it was quite obvious what was going on/didn't really need to be explained.

You could tell that Dyspo was using his ears to listen to Hit specific movements because Hit tenses up whenever he uses the time skip, and Dyspo would use his ability to move thousands of times faster to get to him before he did, and that Hit would turn it around by making his muscles make certain noises to fool Dyspos hearing just by looking?

Dude you're eyes must be god like.

But without the moon and tail. It's almost exactly the same as using ssg without the ritual.

A line is important, because we still don't know why he can acess the form. They show us that he can use SSG, but I'm asking how? He didn't use the ritual, so how?

Its never actually said the ritual is the ONLY way to obtain the power. I always considered it a short cut which is also why its on a time limit.

[The_Destroyer]

No, Beerus even stated in BOG that SSJ1 was a" powered-down" version of SSJG.

Huh,really? Movie or Super?

But tell me, do you honestly think that Toei,before this arc was concieved, always had the intention of letting Goku use SSG again? When they wrote the black,rof,and uni 6 arcs, did they write those arcs with the belief that Goku could use ssg? Because it is clear to me that they just now decided to do it because the manga did it, otherwise they would have used it earlier like Toyotoro.

Regardless when TOEI decided to use Red again, SSJG clearly was left open for use at anytime.
It was stated in BOG BTW.

I feel like they only used it now because the Manga did. They even used the strategy of ssg-ssb. It doesn't seem like something they planned on revisiting. Especially when you consiser that every other form of ssj got used in the anime black arc, but not SSG

[Miracles]

Huh,really? Movie or Super?

But tell me, do you honestly think that Toei,before this arc was concieved, always had the intention of letting Goku use SSG again? When they wrote the black,rof,and uni 6 arcs, did they write those arcs with the belief that Goku could use ssg? Because it is clear to me that they just now decided to do it because the manga did it, otherwise they would have used it earlier like Toyotoro.

Regardless when TOEI decided to use Red again, SSJG clearly was left open for use at anytime.
It was stated in BOG BTW.

I feel like they only used it now because the Manga did. They even used the strategy of ssg-ssb. It doesn't seem like something they planned on revisiting. Especially when you consiser that every other form of ssj got used in the anime black arc, but not SSG

Well they left SSJG there for them to use anytime and now was the time.

[gohan_black]

It cannot get any worse then hxh overly explaining every step the characters make to the point that it takes the tension away(Ant) thats why [spoiler]Hisoka and Gon is the best fight imo[/spoiler]

ho dont remind me of this terrible overatted show

[JazzMazz]

sick of the over talking. for every 2 seconds of fighting you have to sit trough 5 min of standing and talking to each other

What do you propose? If the dialogue adds to the fight, then there shouldn't be any problem with it.
Though I enjoyed the Hit vs Dyspo fight, I feel like everything would have been done better if the dialogue was spoken in inner monolgues than a loud to the opponent, which I felt was a little dumb since they were basically clarifying what their strategies were.

[Fizzer]

The writers don't have full control. The series director doesn't have full control. They're pawns of shitty corporate overlords who believe there is a specific way to handle their hugely popular property.

This is exactly what's wrong with Super. The capitalistic, toy-selling, robotic, no-love production style is screaming in your face. Feels less like a work of art than a glorified toy ad. This is what the 21st century did to Dragon Ball, what it does to every aspect of life.

[Yomi]

The writers don't have full control. The series director doesn't have full control. They're pawns of shitty corporate overlords who believe there is a specific way to handle their hugely popular property.

This is exactly what's wrong with Super. The capitalistic, toy-selling, robotic, no-love production style is screaming in your face. Feels less like a work of art than a glorified toy ad. This is what the 21st century did to Dragon Ball, what it does to every aspect of life.

Don't blame the times, all of those super hero cartoons and johnny quest/transformers cartoons were all about selling toys back in the 90's.
It was so bad that T.V. Guidelines in America had to make it illegal to advertise toys related to the show in the same time-slot. If something doesn't make money, it doesn't get produced or it gets canceled. It's always been that way. Unless it's some indie fan-thing. Even those "immaculate", overrated shows , like OPM, BnH, HxH, JoJo etc, are like this.

[Fizzer]

Don't blame the times, all of those super hero cartoons and johnny quest/transformers cartoons were all about selling toys back in the 90's.
It was so bad that T.V. Guidelines in America had to make it illegal to sell toys related to the show in the same time-slot. If something doesn't make money, it doesn't get produced or it gets canceled. It's always been that way. Unless it's some indie fan-thing. Even those "immaculate", overrated shows , like OPM, BnH, HxH, JoJo etc, are like this.

It's increased as time's gone on though, everything has to be ever more efficient with respect to profit. The amount of time and money going into things like advertising and market research has never stopped ballooning. I guess I never really watched the things you mentioned though, so maybe I was blissfully ignorant of some of the worst offenders.

Obviously DB/Z would never have existed in the first place if they didn't make money, but they were and are rich, immersive, and creative. There was a weight to the plot progression even if we all knew things would work out fine in the end. A momentum. In Super it's just so obvious that when there's say an emotional scene, someone's said "put an in emotional scene with that character in there". They aren't telling a story, they're trying manufacture responses in the short term. Some things are there just to tick boxes or even just to be in the NEPs.

I shouldn't entirely blame the times though. BoG was only a few years ago and that didn't seem to be affected by the same problems.

Edit: Okay, this sounds like I'm really hating on Super. I do like Super. I'm mostly just frustrated because it had and has so much potential.

[HeroR]

Don't blame the times, all of those super hero cartoons and johnny quest/transformers cartoons were all about selling toys back in the 90's.
It was so bad that T.V. Guidelines in America had to make it illegal to sell toys related to the show in the same time-slot. If something doesn't make money, it doesn't get produced or it gets canceled. It's always been that way. Unless it's some indie fan-thing. Even those "immaculate", overrated shows , like OPM, BnH, HxH, JoJo etc, are like this.

It's increased as time's gone on though, everything has to be ever more efficient with respect to profit. The amount of time and money going into things like advertising and market research has never stopped ballooning. I guess I never really watched the things you mentioned though, so maybe I was blissfully ignorant of some of the worst offenders.

Obviously DB/Z would never have existed in the first place if they didn't make money, but they were and are rich, immersive, and creative. There was a weight to the plot progression even if we all knew things would work out fine in the end. A momentum. In Super it's just so obvious that when there's say an emotional scene, someone's said "put an in emotional scene with that character in there". They aren't telling a story, they're trying manufacture responses in the short term. Some things are there just to tick boxes or even just to be in the NEPs.

I shouldn't entirely blame the times though. BoG was only a few years ago and that didn't seem to be affected by the same problems.

Which is funny since Super actually had an arc where the consequences of it weren't fixed, unlike every arc in Dragon Ball before then, leading to a more emotion ending.