People are getting tired of Goku and here is why

[ABED]

Another example people don't mention that often: in Fullmetal Alchemist, Edward basically disappears entirely for several episodes. Despite Ed being perhaps my favorite fictional character in general, I loved this bit.

Point is that most great series have at least ONE episode without the main character.

That all depends on what the story is.

[TekTheNinja]

Another example people don't mention that often: in Fullmetal Alchemist, Edward basically disappears entirely for several episodes. Despite Ed being perhaps my favorite fictional character in general, I loved this bit.

Point is that most great series have at least ONE episode without the main character.

That all depends on what the story is.

I guess? But Dragon Ball Super clearly isn't "that kind" of story.

[ABED]

Another example people don't mention that often: in Fullmetal Alchemist, Edward basically disappears entirely for several episodes. Despite Ed being perhaps my favorite fictional character in general, I loved this bit.

Point is that most great series have at least ONE episode without the main character.

That all depends on what the story is.

I guess? But Dragon Ball Super clearly isn't "that kind" of story.

Not sure what you mean by "that kind" of story.

My point was merely that if the main character leaves, it depends on what the story is that requires them to be gone. Just leaving them out isn't what makes the story better.

[TekTheNinja]

That all depends on what the story is.

I guess? But Dragon Ball Super clearly isn't "that kind" of story.

Not sure what you mean by "that kind" of story.

My point was merely that if the main character leaves, it depends on what the story is that requires them to be gone. Just leaving them out isn't what makes the story better.

It kind of is what makes the story better though. Even if you have an amazingly popular protagonist, people will get sick of them when they're shoved down your god damn throats the whole show.

Super focuses on Goku more than the title character of a damn biopic and that's a problem.

[ABED]

How does taking the main character out of the story inherently make it better? Goku is hardly shoved down the audience's throats and it's a good bet that if they haven't gotten sick of him by now, they won't be getting sick of him any time soon. He's not in every scene of every episode, even in DB. He's the main character.

[TekTheNinja]

How does taking the main character out of the story inherently make it better? Goku is hardly shoved down the audience's throats and it's a good bet that if they haven't gotten sick of him by now, they won't be getting sick of him any time soon. He's not in every scene of every episode, even in DB. He's the main character.

We're talking in circles now.

[ABED]

How does taking the main character out of the story inherently make it better? Goku is hardly shoved down the audience's throats and it's a good bet that if they haven't gotten sick of him by now, they won't be getting sick of him any time soon. He's not in every scene of every episode, even in DB. He's the main character.

We're talking in circles now.

Not really And emoticons aren't a response. You haven't given a reason why you think just taking out the main character even in a long standing show is better. Does the fact that some might get sick justify taking a character out of the story even if there's not an organic reason? Why did you like that one of the brothers wasn't in a few episodes of FMA? Was is simply a change of pace or was it because the quality of the actual story? Because those are two different things.

[TekTheNinja]

How does taking the main character out of the story inherently make it better? Goku is hardly shoved down the audience's throats and it's a good bet that if they haven't gotten sick of him by now, they won't be getting sick of him any time soon. He's not in every scene of every episode, even in DB. He's the main character.

We're talking in circles now.

Not really And emoticons aren't a response. You haven't given a reason why you think just taking out the main character even in a long standing show is better. Does the fact that some might get sick justify taking a character out of the story even if there's not an organic reason? Why did you like that one of the brothers wasn't in a few episodes of FMA? Was is simply a change of pace or was it because the quality of the actual story? Because those are two different things.

Yes really, and don't be a smartass.

Maybe there SHOULD be organic reasons for Goku to not be involved in EVERYTHING. He's feeling like a Mary Sue. No, Goku doesn't (necessarily) need to be written out completely, but there are very few popular stories with only one relevant character. Honestly this is pretty simple shit that has been explained eloquently at least ten times in this thread alone, so if you don't get it now, you never will. News flash, people can disagree with you.

[ABED]

He's not a Mary Sue. He's hardly perfect, a point that is made very clear even in series

I simply don't like people using emoticons as a response, especially ones like yawning. I just want a polite conversation, even one where we disagree. I want to understand why, not because no one's allowed to disagree with me, but I'm curious.

News flash, people can disagree with you.

I never said they couldn't. I didn't read the whole thread, nor do I care to, and you still didn't explain why you think FMA benefitted from leaving out a main character. Was it just the novelty of it or did his absence organically part of an interesting storyline? Like was he kidnapped or something? I've never seen the show. You seem to think my disagreeing is some personal affront and I'm just trying to get at a reason. In other words, I'm having a conversation. I'm actually trying to understand your reasons.

but there are very few popular stories with only one relevant character

Define relevant. Regardless if that's actually the case or not, DB IS very popular.

[JazzMazz]

I think people are getting tired of Goku because his such a static character most of the time.

He usually displays the same character traits with little to no spin on them in every situation his in.

He doesn't seem to learn anything or grow as character despite his different combat experiences.

His not particularly interesting to watch fight due to the fact his so much more powerful than the majority of his opponents and doesn't try the majority of the time. I also don't like this aspect because it plays into the shows attempts at fake tension by having Goku constantly struggling in his base, even though he could power-up any second and neutralize the threat; The fights when he is up against some one in his own league are generally pretty decent, for example, I liked his small skirmish with Dyspo because he was being creative with how his using his power, without making it come off feeling completely fake.

There are of course exceptions to this general rule, but these are the main reasons why I personally find his presence tiresome.

[ABED]

I think people are getting tired of Goku because his such a static character most of the time.

He usually displays the same character traits with little to no spin on them in every situation his in.

He doesn't seem to learn anything or grow as character despite his different combat experiences.

And I could see why many would tire of a character like that after a while, in this case a while being decades.

His not particularly interesting to watch fight due to the fact his so much more powerful than the majority of his opponents and doesn't try the majority of the time.

Is this limited to Super because otherwise, that's simply not true.

[JazzMazz]

I think people are getting tired of Goku because his such a static character most of the time.

He usually displays the same character traits with little to no spin on them in every situation his in.

He doesn't seem to learn anything or grow as character despite his different combat experiences.

And I could see why many would tire of a character like that after a while, in this case a while being decades.

His not particularly interesting to watch fight due to the fact his so much more powerful than the majority of his opponents and doesn't try the majority of the time.

Is this limited to Super because otherwise, that's simply not true.

To clarify that last statement, the problem I have is when they try to make it seem that Goku is in a lot of trouble against an opponent who his not trying against. In Z, they at least played off(with mixed results) Goku being more powerful than his opponent for "coolness", in Super, they try to make it seem like Goku is in some kind of peril against opponents that his having trouble with in his base form, even though we know he isn't in any real peril if he just transformed into any of his Super Saiyan forms.

Does that clear up my statement?

[ABED]

In Z, Goku was only stronger than Freeza and not from the beginning of the fight.

[Meshack]

How do you remove the main character from the series? Especially someone who fits the role better than everyone else! Dragon Ball is a martial arts based manga/anime series. Son Gokuh is the perfect fit for this type of series. Gokuh loves to fight strong opponents even if it puts his family and friends in danger. He loves fighting more than anything else because he's a Saiyan. Vegeta's a Saiyan too but he needs Gokuh to get stronger. So why would you remove someone who makes others stronger in the end? Everyone participating as one of the 7th Universe Representatives got stronger because of Son Gokuh.

Who cares if Gokuh is shoved down our throats everyone episode? He's the main character! Find me a series that doesn't focus on the main character because there isn't one.

One Punch Man
My Hero Academia
Tokyo Ghoul
Shingeki no Kyojin

OnePunch-Man and My Hero Academia focus heavily on Saitama and Izuku. They do the exact same thing. The main character gets the majority of screen time and the others get some screentime to develop. Tokyo Ghoul still focuses on the main character which is Ken, so I don't get what you're talking about.

[JazzMazz]

In Z, Goku was only stronger than Freeza and not from the beginning of the fight.

I was referring to the Ginyu force, Nappa and Yakon(in no particular order).

[ABED]

In Z, Goku was only stronger than Freeza and not from the beginning of the fight.

I was referring to the Ginyu force, Nappa and Yakon(in no particular order).

They're lackies and even against the Ginyu Force he wasn't holding back to look cool. He was not going full force because he didn't know the depths of his enemy's power. As we saw in the fight, even a weaker opponent can hurt him with the right strategy and techniques.

[JazzMazz]

In Z, Goku was only stronger than Freeza and not from the beginning of the fight.

I was referring to the Ginyu force, Nappa and Yakon(in no particular order).

They're lackies and even against the Ginyu Force he wasn't holding back to look cool. He was not going full force because he didn't know the depths of his enemy's power. As we saw in the fight, even a weaker opponent can hurt him with the right strategy and techniques.

The majority of people that Goku has fought in this tournament has been fodder who he was far stronger than just like the lackies I mentioned. Most of the Ginyu force were completely punked by Goku, and yes, it was written to look cool.

In the fight against Ginyu,(which displayed them more as equals than anything else) Goku eventually decided to end the confrontation with his Kaio-ken(a technique that does hold negative connotations unlike regular Super Saiyan) pretty much the instant he was at a disadvantage. Ginyu surprised Goku with an ability he was unaware of, that eventually worked in Ginyu's disfavour at the end of the fight.

The difference between the Ginyu example and what we've seen in Super, is that none of the fodder Goku has fought have surprised him with a unique ability after his powered up. The competitors his fought have always used their signature special abilities before Goku increases his power.

Most of the competitors Goku has been shown fighting have had physical offensive traits that Goku could easily overcome through sheer power.

Something that could be done to relieve this sense of "fake tension", is give Goku someone who is actually a challenge like Dyspo, who was opponent that could actually challenge Goku in a straight fight, and also had a unique ability which gave him an edge and Goku needed to overcome using strategy.

[ABED]

Fair enough.

[ChronoTwigger]

Goku is not the problem. Any further possible development for the character is the issue.
It could be done, really, but is risky to add a new arc to him (arc= a reason to struggle AND gain more depth/details - like defeating Frieza and face his past).
So I think TOEI will always stay with "thi"s Goku and use it as a plot device in all the episodes. "The joyfull guy that could punch the Gods". Forever, each day.

[BlueBasilisk]

I never said they couldn't. I didn't read the whole thread, nor do I care to, and you still didn't explain why you think FMA benefitted from leaving out a main character. Was it just the novelty of it or did his absence organically part of an interesting storyline? Like was he kidnapped or something? I've never seen the show. You seem to think my disagreeing is some personal affront and I'm just trying to get at a reason. In other words, I'm having a conversation. I'm actually trying to understand your reasons.

Edward was out of focus every now and then because the group would split up and the story would follow the various characters until everyone met up again. But FMA tells a very different type of story. There are mysteries and conspiracies and political intrigue from multiple factions. It's a very different type of story from Dragon Ball.

Myself, I'm glad Goku is getting so much focus. In Z, it got really irritating seeing him sidelined in every single arc until the end because it almost never felt organic. Especially in the Cell and Buu sagas. You could tell Toriyama was just putting him on the bench to draw out the arc. It happened in Battle of Gods and Resurrection F too.

I've said this before (in another thread, I think), but Goku getting focus wasn't the problem with GT, it was that he (and the writers) would actually prevent the other characters from participating in fights at all. It had to be Goku getting the win whether it was the boss or a mook. Pan defeated one of the Sigma Force robots on her own, onw of the few victories Goku wasn't involved in, and it got revived stronger than before just an episode or two later to be instantly fodderized by base Goku. It couldn't even give Pan that. Likewise Pan appeared to be perfectly capable of beating Haze Shenron but Goku had to butt in for a team kill. It got really obnoxious. Thankfully Super Goku doesn't do that.