People are getting tired of Goku and here is why

[LowRyder2005]

I think that, despite the apparent naivety of statements taking issue with Goku's position in the show, there's a great deal of truthfulness in the position of the OP. In general, I agree whole-heartedly that the Z treatment really suited Goku: it made people actually ache for him to get on screen, and also left plenty of room for other characters to get a spotlight. When Goku was finally stepping in, you know stuff was finally gonna get serious.

Some fans argue Goku having almost all of the screentime and makes him less of a plot device and supposedly benefits the series, but for all his screentime his development as a character is also virtually non-existent nowadays (Super's nature of midquel is partly to blame); I feel that, under the current conditions, there's not really much "good" that the "Goku, Goku and more Goku" formula that can help the series narratively. There's the fact it obviously appeases people who like the face that runs the place, which is probably the root of why he's used in a drastically less choral framework.

I firmly believe that shifting the spotlight - with ever-so-decent writing - would've really made Super stand on his own, instead of being a product essentially geared towards the "Goku, Goku and more Goku, since you all love him" fanservicey formula. Not that it makes super intrinsically bad, per se; still, anyone would agree that it's really hard to write a character who's destined to be as iconically formulaic as they can be and who also needs to be the focus of every episode. I would've loved Goku donning a slightly more mature, mentor-like persona, with Gohan, Goten and Trunks handling the regular foes and Goku and Vegeta being the "main men" whenever shit got serious. "Yo!" had, in my opinion, totally nailed it.

[Kanassa]

I firmly believe that shifting the spotlight - with ever-so-decent writing - would've really made Super stand on his own, instead of being a product essentially geared towards the "Goku, Goku and more Goku, since you all love him" fanservicey formula. Not that it makes super intrinsically bad, per se; still, anyone would agree that it's really hard to write a character who's destined to be as iconically formulaic as they can be and who also needs to be the focus of every episode.

But that's the thing, Goku isn't taking away the spotlight from other characters, he's not the focus of every episode. Hell, some episodes he's just there to go ''I'm here". Arguably, Z was the one where he steals spotlight and focus, because even when he's not there everybody and everything is in someway focusing on him.

[LowRyder2005]

I firmly believe that shifting the spotlight - with ever-so-decent writing - would've really made Super stand on his own, instead of being a product essentially geared towards the "Goku, Goku and more Goku, since you all love him" fanservicey formula. Not that it makes super intrinsically bad, per se; still, anyone would agree that it's really hard to write a character who's destined to be as iconically formulaic as they can be and who also needs to be the focus of every episode.

But that's the thing, Goku isn't taking away the spotlight from other characters, he's not the focus of every episode. Hell, some episodes he's just there to go ''I'm here". Arguably, Z was the one where he steals spotlight and focus, because even when he's not there everybody and everything is in someway focusing on him.

You think? Prior to the tournament and its occasional 5-minute detours showing this or that character, I honestly don't remember a single Super episode in which Goku is not the major focus or where the plot isn't "next time: Goku does this, Goku does that!", bar the "Great Saiyaman vs. Barry Kahn" arc in which Goku's completely absent and four or five episodes in which they really couldn't have him fight (like Piccolo vs. Frost, or Vegeta vs. Frost/Magetta/Cabba); in Z everyone was pretty much always *waiting* for Goku, that much is obvious because he intervened at the climax of every major fight, but characters still got a crapload of usually pivotal stuff done on their own.
In the meanwhile, Goku sat on the sidelines and you had the time to actually get invested in the activities of the rest of the cast.

[Kanassa]

I firmly believe that shifting the spotlight - with ever-so-decent writing - would've really made Super stand on his own, instead of being a product essentially geared towards the "Goku, Goku and more Goku, since you all love him" fanservicey formula. Not that it makes super intrinsically bad, per se; still, anyone would agree that it's really hard to write a character who's destined to be as iconically formulaic as they can be and who also needs to be the focus of every episode.

But that's the thing, Goku isn't taking away the spotlight from other characters, he's not the focus of every episode. Hell, some episodes he's just there to go ''I'm here". Arguably, Z was the one where he steals spotlight and focus, because even when he's not there everybody and everything is in someway focusing on him.

You think? I honestly don't remember a single Super episode in which Goku is not the major focus or where the plot isn't "next time: Goku does this, Goku does that!",

In the Universal Survival Arc alone: 79 85 89 90 97 99 101 102 103

in Z everyone was *waiting* for Goku, that much is obvious because Goku intervened at the climax of every major fight, but characters still got a crapload of stuff done on their own. In the meanwhile, Goku was on the sidelines and you had the time to actually get invested in their activities.

Goku was on the sidelines, yet was still the focus, 80% of scenes that he wasn't in were still about him in a way. I'd say tat's much closer to 'shove down your throat' than him just being there. With most dialogue and thoughts being "Oh, where's Goku?" "Oh, what would Goku do?" "Gosh golly, if only I was Goku" "Can't wait for GOku to get here" "Goku, Goku, Goku".

In Super, Goku's involvement is there, but it's not that Goku-centric. No focus is taken away from the other characters, nor the spotlight.

[LowRyder2005]

But that's the thing, Goku isn't taking away the spotlight from other characters, he's not the focus of every episode. Hell, some episodes he's just there to go ''I'm here". Arguably, Z was the one where he steals spotlight and focus, because even when he's not there everybody and everything is in someway focusing on him.

You think? I honestly don't remember a single Super episode in which Goku is not the major focus or where the plot isn't "next time: Goku does this, Goku does that!",

In the Universal Survival Arc alone: 79 85 89 90 97 99 101 102 103

in Z everyone was *waiting* for Goku, that much is obvious because Goku intervened at the climax of every major fight, but characters still got a crapload of stuff done on their own. In the meanwhile, Goku was on the sidelines and you had the time to actually get invested in their activities.

Goku was on the sidelines, yet was still the focus, 80% of scenes that he wasn't in were still about him in a way. I'd say tat's much closer to 'shove down your throat' than him just being there. With most dialogue and thoughts being "Oh, where's Goku?" "Oh, what would Goku do?" "Gosh golly, if only I was Goku" "Can't wait for GOku to get here" "Goku, Goku, Goku".

In Super, Goku's involvement is there, but it's not that Goku-centric. No focus is taken away from the other characters, nor the spotlight.

If you think all the characters in Super together have done anything as remotely important as 50% of the Saiyan arc, and a good 80% of the Namek, Android or Buu Arc (while Goku is again present in basically every single episode of Super and actively contributing for a good part in every major fight/ problem/ issue the episode tackles), good for you. Don't know how to answer, to be honest. Happy it doesn't detract from your enjoyment of the series, at least.

[Noah]

You actually have good points, mate. I think Goku's screentime especially in the tournament could be more dosed, we can have episodes without him making an appearance just fine and giving the deserved highlight to the others in the U7 Team, I mean was really necessary for him to come just to look how Gohan would beat Botamo? Also we're not getting much from Freeza yet, whom people praised to be a good surprise in this arc due the potential of great interactions with his character.

[MagmonKai]

I actually felt strange watching the first half of the last episode because Goku was no where to be seen. I kept expecting to see him turn SSG, and then he came, and went. I really like the anticipation of his arrival more than anything. Like in the Namek arc when you were screaming for him to get to planet Namek to whoop some ass.

[TBMx]

Goku is the main character. That is correct. However, before giving him overwhelming screentime, one would think Toei would have learned from GT that that doesn't work.

I thought a brilliant decision in the manga and the some parts of the anime, was the decision to have Vegeta be the co- main character. That gives the audience a choice between two opposing personalities, as to who to root for. I don't understand the logic of taking that choice away from the audience.

[perucho1990]

Goku is the main character. That is correct. However, before giving him overwhelming screentime, one would think Toei would have learned from GT that that doesn't work.

I thought a brilliant decision in the manga and the some parts of the anime, was the decision to have Vegeta be the co- main character. That gives the audience a choice between two opposing personalities, as to who to root for. I don't understand the logic of taking that choice away from the audience.

Well some fans already turned on Vegeta for being "boring".

Goku has been treated as a side character in the tournament, in the last episode he admits he couldnt defeat Dyspo after Hit mauled him.

[Lionel]

My principal grievance is directed towards the overembellishment of Saiyans in general. With how everything has been warping to gradually becoming dedicated almost exclusively to the Saiyans since Z, I don't expect this trend to cease in the foreseeable future, if ever. I agree with others who think that just because Goku is the main protagonist doesn't mean he has to be in virtually every episode playing some intrusionist contributory role when the limelight is supposed to be dedicated to the promoted character shown in previews. The tournament is intended to sate the desires for action revolving around fan-favourite characters. But I'm looking back over the time allocated to Krillin, for example, I see how it fails to even match the same quantity and arguably quality as Goku and Vegeta fighting the Trio de Dangers and Universe 9 -- the very first major battle of the tournament.

Since Krillin, some of the others have been earning some time of their own, but the quality put into it can sometimes come across as an afterthought. I'm talking moments like the cyborgs teaming up against Kahseral when in actuality the extent of their teamwork was avoiding some sabres before #18 retreated to rescue Goku or Roshi and Tenshinhan's collaboration apart from everyone else amounting to little more than suspending Preecho in the air with a torture ability before propelling him out bounds using the Kiai elements of the Kikoho. It's pretty generic. When you think of how next episode appears to be focusing on Roshi primarily, you realise that there probably won't be any more potential time given to him for him to work with others.

I do find it strange how Vegeta being ganged up on by Lavender and Hop can somehow produce arguably better quality choreography than events that may have been hyped in the eyes of the viewers. We still have time, but there's less and less characters to offer up to the other fighters of U7.

[The gr]

I do find it strange how Vegeta being ganged up on by Lavender and Hop can somehow produce arguably better quality choreography than events that may have been hyped in the eyes of the viewers. We still have time, but there's less and less characters to offer up to the other fighters of U7.

Other than the Yong-ce Tu cut,the one with Vegeta eliminating hop what do you mean by this,I didn't find that scuffle not the best one but it was certainly better than goku vs chappil

[Lionel]

I do find it strange how Vegeta being ganged up on by Lavender and Hop can somehow produce arguably better quality choreography than events that may have been hyped in the eyes of the viewers. We still have time, but there's less and less characters to offer up to the other fighters of U7.

Other than the Yong-ce Tu cut,the one with Vegeta eliminating hop what do you mean by this,I didn't find that scuffle not the best one but it was certainly better than goku vs chappil

Well I mean relative to some of the aforementioned events like #17 and #18 working together against Kahseral or Krillin's brief exchange with Majora. It seemed like more application was afforded to providing more dynamic choreographical set-pieces with Hop and Lavender battling Vegeta than with Krillin partaking in the generic flurry barrage with Majora. The one detail that sets it apart is the tactical cleverness in obscuring Majora's sense of smell; otherwise, the fight itself seemed mediocre.

[Simere]

I agree with others who think that just because Goku is the main protagonist doesn't mean he has to be in virtually every episode playing some intrusionist contributory role when the limelight is supposed to be dedicated to the promoted character shown in previews. The tournament is intended to sate the desires for action revolving around fan-favourite characters.

How do you know what the intention is? I'm not making any claims myself, but have you even considered this tournament/arc is actually to examine Goku?

[HeroR]

Goku is the main character. That is correct. However, before giving him overwhelming screentime, one would think Toei would have learned from GT that that doesn't work.

I thought a brilliant decision in the manga and the some parts of the anime, was the decision to have Vegeta be the co- main character. That gives the audience a choice between two opposing personalities, as to who to root for. I don't understand the logic of taking that choice away from the audience.

Well some fans already turned on Vegeta for being "boring".

Goku has been treated as a side character in the tournament, in the last episode he admits he couldnt defeat Dyspo after Hit mauled him.

He didn't say that. He said once that Dypso guy heals up, he will defeat him.

Also, despite popular belief, GT failed from more than just 'too much Goku'. In fact, Goku's scene time in that series wasn't a primary problem for a lot of viewers.

[Lionel]

I agree with others who think that just because Goku is the main protagonist doesn't mean he has to be in virtually every episode playing some intrusionist contributory role when the limelight is supposed to be dedicated to the promoted character shown in previews. The tournament is intended to sate the desires for action revolving around fan-favourite characters.

How do you know what the intention is? I'm not making any claims myself, but have you even considered this tournament/arc is actually to examine Goku?

Is it? If you're correct in this assessment then the studio and Toyotaro shouldn't be going to such lengths to promote other characters. Don't visually frame these characters in equidistant art-pieces like they'll play a substantive role in the tournament. Some fans might get that impression when they're being symmetrically aligned in mid-credits scenes.

[HeroR]

I agree with others who think that just because Goku is the main protagonist doesn't mean he has to be in virtually every episode playing some intrusionist contributory role when the limelight is supposed to be dedicated to the promoted character shown in previews. The tournament is intended to sate the desires for action revolving around fan-favourite characters.

How do you know what the intention is? I'm not making any claims myself, but have you even considered this tournament/arc is actually to examine Goku?

Is it? If you're correct in this assessment then the studio and Toyotaro shouldn't be going to such lengths to promote other characters. Don't visually frame these characters in equidistant art-pieces like they'll play a substantive role in the tournament. Some fans might get that impression when they're being symmetrically aligned in mid-credits scenes.

While these characters may be important, Goku has been front in center in all promotions. Plus, as we saw with Buu, getting billing isn't a promise that you will be important.

[sintzu]

What's the problem with Goku being always there? It wasn't that different in Dragon Ball.

Goku was very likable in DB and when Toriyama expanded the cast in Z, it's only natural for people to expect the same thing in its sequel, not going backwards to just Goku again.

None of that amounted to anything and those arcs started or ended because of Goku.

Which is why I said Goku was very much the main characters in Z, his presence was always felt but never forced.

When Goku showed up in Z it was exciting cause we weren't with him 24/7, it gave his screen time more weight. half of what made his fight with Cell so epic was the fact that he hadn't fought anyone since #19.

For all his screentime his development as a character is also virtually non-existent nowadays (Super's nature of midquel is partly to blame).

I would've loved Goku donning a slightly more mature, mentor-like persona, with Gohan, Goten and Trunks handling the regular foes and Goku and Vegeta being the "main men" whenever shit got serious.

That's because his (and everyone else') development ended in the manga, most of what we're seeing now is going over old ground again.

Look what they did to Hit, why did Goku have to take part in that ? why not let him finish those 2 on his own ? He had the Beerus wannabe under control so surely he could've handled that other thing. That's probably what will happen when other characters get their fights, it'll be Goku and Freeza against Frost, Goku and Vegeta aginst whoever he fight, Goku and Piccolo against the Namaeins, etc.

[TBMx]

Focusing on Goku so early in the tournament doesn't make sense as he doesn't struggle against these opponents. How boring would it be if Goku landed on Namek early with a powerlevel of 180,000 and just owned everybody until the Ginyu fight. Because that's what this is.

[HeroR]

Focusing on Goku so early in the tournament doesn't make sense as he doesn't struggle against these opponents. How boring would it be if Goku landed on Namek early with a powerlevel of 180,000 and just owned everybody until the Ginyu fight. Because that's what this is.

I personally wouldn't mind seeing that since Goku still would be no match against Freeza and had to stay out of his sight.

[sintzu]

How boring would it be if Goku landed on Namek early with a powerlevel of 180,000 and just owned everybody until the Ginyu fight. Because that's what this is.

That'd be OK if he wasn't taking part in the final fight but not only will that happen but he's also getting a new form. the over focus on him now doesn't make sense cause he's going to get plenty of screen time at the end and during the events leading up to it.