I love the fact that U7 is dominating the tournament

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Re: I love the fact that U7 is dominating the tournament

Post by FoolsGil » Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:26 pm

precita wrote:I know a lot of people are mixed on this, but I love it. U7 was initially viewed as one of the worst universes in the exhibition matches and they've come around to dominate nearly everyone. I just love the fact that our fighters really are the strongest fighters among the 8 universes competing. And the fact that even the strongest characters aren't being used like Buu or Gotenks is icing on the cake, because U7 would dominate even more then.

With the exception of the big threats like Jiren, Toppo, Dyspo, Hit, and a few others, I love the fact that U7 can take care of almost everyone else without much trouble at all.

By the end of this arc our Universe will already be proven to be stronger than the top fighters of nearly all these others universes. I was worried all these fighters would be on the level of Super Saiyan Blue or more, but thankfully it seems only a small handful are, and everyone else is around Cell or Buu saga level at most. That's great, and proves there isn't some huge power gap still happening between universes.

I want Universe 7 to dominate everyone.
Like what you wanna like. But this easy mode tournament is a snoozefest.

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Re: I love the fact that U7 is dominating the tournament

Post by precita » Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:36 pm

Well it's not completely easy mode. Otherwise you'd see characters knocked off in 1 second, like the few we saw. Gohan and Piccolo were under fire. Piccolo lost arms.

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Re: I love the fact that U7 is dominating the tournament

Post by FoolsGil » Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:41 am

precita wrote:Well it's not completely easy mode. Otherwise you'd see characters knocked off in 1 second, like the few we saw. Gohan and Piccolo were under fire. Piccolo lost arms.
But they're still dominating. Gohan and Piccolo have a bit of a hard time doesn't make this any less boring. As we all know, this is just an interquel series, and we all know that Super has to tie in with the end of Z. Toei at the very least can up the tension...which they won't do, hence the snoozefest.

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Re: I love the fact that U7 is dominating the tournament

Post by precita » Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:42 am

I admit I laughed hard when Vegeta just blasted Dr. Rota and the U2 guy together off the stage and didn't even let them fight. And the funniest part of it all was that Goku and Vegeta were in their base forms the entire episode and weren't even powered up to Super Saiyan. :lol:

Universe 7 RULES! I'm so happy our universe is so much better than all the others. All these weak fodders amuse me greatly.

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Re: I love the fact that U7 is dominating the tournament

Post by precita » Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:37 pm

Well it's been 2 months more now and U7 is still dominating the tournament. Now we're seeing Freeza take out a lot more people than before, given he defeated the Yardrat, Frost and Cabba all one after the other.

17/18 have been out of the picture for a while, and Gohan/Piccolo will likely take out the two Nameks. Meanwhile most members of the other universes are fodder and even Universe 6 doesn't have that many wins at all.

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Re: I love the fact that U7 is dominating the tournament

Post by Kataphrut » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:35 pm

I assumed so many Universe 7 guys were staying so Jiren would have someone to carve a path through, but we're not even getting that while he's having his nap. At this point, they genuinely feel unbeatable and it needs to stop. We have a few fights happening right now that could go either way: Toppo could get Vegeta, the Namekians could get Piccolo, Ribrianne could get her revenge on 17. Stop holding out and actually give the other teams some wins, please.

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Re: I love the fact that U7 is dominating the tournament

Post by precita » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:38 pm

Universe 7 rules. I expect 17 and 18 to take out all those robot characters, and the Nameks will surely be beaten by Gohan/Piccolo.

I do think Toppo/Dyspo will eventually fall to either Vegeta or Gohan too. Hopefully Goku doesn't take both out. Go Universe 7! Destroy everyone! Rah Rah!

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Re: I love the fact that U7 is dominating the tournament

Post by precita » Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:11 am

It's now a month later and not much has changed. Universe 7 is still dominating left and right.

Granted I wonder how things would be different if Goku didn't fight Caulifa/Kale, surely everyone else would had a far more difficult time taking them down not even counting the fusion.

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Re: I love the fact that U7 is dominating the tournament

Post by majinwarman » Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:23 am

precita wrote:It's now a month later and not much has changed. Universe 7 is still dominating left and right.

Granted I wonder how things would be different if Goku didn't fight Caulifa/Kale, surely everyone else would had a far more difficult time taking them down not even counting the fusion.
At this point, I don't think there is going to be a change towards that. Maybe Jiren decides to go crazy before he fights Goku. It is just something I thought up that could happen.
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Re: I love the fact that U7 is dominating the tournament

Post by Artorias » Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:19 am

precita wrote:I know a lot of people are mixed on this, but I love it. U7 was initially viewed as one of the worst universes in the exhibition matches and they've come around to dominate nearly everyone. I just love the fact that our fighters really are the strongest fighters among the 8 universes competing. And the fact that even the strongest characters aren't being used like Buu or Gotenks is icing on the cake, because U7 would dominate even more then.

With the exception of the big threats like Jiren, Toppo, Dyspo, Hit, and a few others, I love the fact that U7 can take care of almost everyone else without much trouble at all.

By the end of this arc our Universe will already be proven to be stronger than the top fighters of nearly all these others universes. I was worried all these fighters would be on the level of Super Saiyan Blue or more, but thankfully it seems only a small handful are, and everyone else is around Cell or Buu saga level at most. That's great, and proves there isn't some huge power gap still happening between universes.

I want Universe 7 to dominate everyone.
This might be a little aggressive but...do you not understand narrative structure and how to create tension? Making U7 THIS OP is a HORRIBLE idea. You don't want to make your main protagonist (or in this case universe) that competent and in control. It just makes for a boring, tension-less story where we never really feel like anyone is in any actual danger or part of a legit struggle. That's not satisfying to watch. What made the deaths of previous DBZ villains so cathartic, for example, was the fact that our heroes got their asses kicked over and over prior to the climax. They didn't just steamroll the enemy, they struggled. They went through mental and physical turmoil. They sometimes even died. And overall, they were forced to constantly push beyond their limits to overcome adversity and barely scrap by with a victory. There's a reason that every major classic story follows this template.

The problem with this entire tournament is that on a fundamental level, there is no real conflict. It's not fun to watch a story where everything goes according to plan and the heroes are constantly one step ahead of the antagonists. It should be the other way around.

I could not disagree more with your post. My opinion is the exact opposite in fact, that the single most fundamental flaw of this entire arc is that U7 is doing so well.

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Re: I love the fact that U7 is dominating the tournament

Post by Zagacious » Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:08 am

Artorias wrote:This might be a little aggressive but...do you not understand narrative structure and how to create tension? Making U7 THIS OP is a HORRIBLE idea. You don't want to make your main protagonist (or in this case universe) that competent and in control. It just makes for a boring, tension-less story where we never really feel like anyone is in any actual danger or part of a legit struggle. That's not satisfying to watch. What made the deaths of previous DBZ villains so cathartic, for example, was the fact that our heroes got their asses kicked over and over prior to the climax. They didn't just steamroll the enemy, they struggled. They went through mental and physical turmoil. They sometimes even died. And overall, they were forced to constantly push beyond their limits to overcome adversity and barely scrap by with a victory. There's a reason that every major classic story follows this template.

The problem with this entire tournament is that on a fundamental level, there is no real conflict. It's not fun to watch a story where everything goes according to plan and the heroes are constantly one step ahead of the antagonists. It should be the other way around.

I could not disagree more with your post. My opinion is the exact opposite in fact, that the single most fundamental flaw of this entire arc is that U7 is doing so well.
This is pretty much exactly how I feel about it, it wouldn't matter as much that the fighters from other universes aren't that well thought out, if they were actually strong it would make a world of difference. They are both uninteresting and completely weak for the most part. All the characters that are well thought out like Maji Kayo are way too weak to matter. I mean we have Master Roshi getting better fights than 90% of the people in the tournament, there's no reason they can't do that with other characters. It's so predictable at this point when you see a new fight you can pretty much tell from the very beginning who's going to win, and the other person is just screwing around for most of the episode then finishes them. There should be FAR more battles that are actually close struggles, because as it is now only a couple fights have been anywhere closed to balanced. Everything else is just easy mode for U7 as someone said.

They even tease fights that would be interesting and might actually be a close match, like Toppo vs Vegeta, over and over and then never show them. I wouldn't be surprised if they never even finish that fight after teasing it for so long.

Just imagine how many good fights the Trio De Dangers could have had if they didn't fight Goku and Vegeta immediately, there's just so much potential wasted to rush things along and have quick easy fights where U7 facerolls. Just today they wasted the new robot guy, I thought maybe Vegeta will at least have to go SSJ to fight him, nope, punches him a couple times and instant defeat. Android 18 pretty much one shotted Ribrianne after transforming, which means unless Android 18 has been training a lot, Ribrianne is likely not any stronger than Cell, real exciting..

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Re: I love the fact that U7 is dominating the tournament

Post by JazzMazz » Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:25 am

Artorias wrote:
This might be a little aggressive but...do you not understand narrative structure and how to create tension? Making U7 THIS OP is a HORRIBLE idea. You don't want to make your main protagonist (or in this case universe) that competent and in control. It just makes for a boring, tension-less story where we never really feel like anyone is in any actual danger or part of a legit struggle. That's not satisfying to watch. What made the deaths of previous DBZ villains so cathartic, for example, was the fact that our heroes got their asses kicked over and over prior to the climax. They didn't just steamroll the enemy, they struggled. They went through mental and physical turmoil. They sometimes even died. And overall, they were forced to constantly push beyond their limits to overcome adversity and barely scrap by with a victory. There's a reason that every major classic story follows this template.

The problem with this entire tournament is that on a fundamental level, there is no real conflict. It's not fun to watch a story where everything goes according to plan and the heroes are constantly one step ahead of the antagonists. It should be the other way around.

I could not disagree more with your post. My opinion is the exact opposite in fact, that the single most fundamental flaw of this entire arc is that U7 is doing so well.
I agree with you.

I see where Toei is coming from by having the Universe 7 take out the most competitors as they are the main focus and Toei wants to make it clear that they earned their victory.

However, thats where the problem starts. Since the majority of the opponents they face are dispactable with a handful of exceptions, it never really feels like Universe 7 has really earned a lot of their victories. I think this is due to the majority of their victories being easily obtained with very little struggle involved, or the struggle that is involved seems forced(ala the majority of the opponents Goku and Vegeta fought earlier on)to the point where the majority of the competitors their up against become immemorable fodder that exist merely to make them look good.

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Re: I love the fact that U7 is dominating the tournament

Post by HeroR » Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:34 am

JazzMazz wrote: I agree with you.

I see where Toei is coming from by having the Universe 7 take out the most competitors as they are the main focus and Toei wants to make it clear that they earned their victory.

However, thats where the problem starts. Since the majority of the opponents they face are dispactable with a handful of exceptions, it never really feels like Universe 7 has really earned a lot of their victories. I think this is due to the majority of their victories being easily obtained with very little struggle involved, or the struggle that is involved seems forced(ala the majority of the opponents Goku and Vegeta fought earlier on)to the point where the majority of the competitors their up against become immemorable fodder that exist merely to make them look good.
To my knowledge, the only victories that felt force was maybe Krillin's last match, Tien taking out the sniper, Gohan taking out Botamo and the U10 guy, and maybe Piccolo taking out the other U10 guy.

I also don't see how victory being easy means they didn't earn them. If I over leveled in a game, does that mean I didn't earn beating the boss? Jiren got his victories easily, didn't he earned them?

Also, most of the fodder made Goku look bad, while making others look good, like his performance in 101.
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: I love the fact that U7 is dominating the tournament

Post by precita » Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:41 am

To be honest what were people expecting? All the fighters to be on Super Saiyan Blue level or something?

Most of the fighters seem to range between SSJ to SSJ2 level from DBZ, that's perfectly fine. That means they're stronger than the entire main cast up to the end of the Cell saga, halfway through DBZ. What they should have done though is have Krillin, Piccolo, Tien, etc. face some of the stronger guys rather than Goku/Vegeta take care of them. Imagine if the Trio de dangers went after Piccolo, etc? That's the only thing they could have improved.

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Re: I love the fact that U7 is dominating the tournament

Post by JazzMazz » Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:11 am

HeroR wrote:
JazzMazz wrote: I agree with you.

I see where Toei is coming from by having the Universe 7 take out the most competitors as they are the main focus and Toei wants to make it clear that they earned their victory.

However, thats where the problem starts. Since the majority of the opponents they face are dispactable with a handful of exceptions, it never really feels like Universe 7 has really earned a lot of their victories. I think this is due to the majority of their victories being easily obtained with very little struggle involved, or the struggle that is involved seems forced(ala the majority of the opponents Goku and Vegeta fought earlier on)to the point where the majority of the competitors their up against become immemorable fodder that exist merely to make them look good.
To my knowledge, the only victories that felt force was maybe Krillin's last match, Tien taking out the sniper, Gohan taking out Botamo and the U10 guy, and maybe Piccolo taking out the other U10 guy.

I also don't see how victory being easy means they didn't earn them. If I over leveled in a game, does that mean I didn't earn beating the boss? Jiren got his victories easily, didn't he earned them?

Also, most of the fodder made Goku look bad, while making others look good, like his performance in 101.
My point is, an earned victory is one achieved through genuine struggle, which is something the arc has trouble potraying some of the time. For example in, 101 and 98, Goku's struggle in those episodes didn't feel genuine since we know he isn't fighting seriously.

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Re: I love the fact that U7 is dominating the tournament

Post by MasterofSix » Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:31 am

precita wrote:To be honest what were people expecting? All the fighters to be on Super Saiyan Blue level or something?

Most of the fighters seem to range between SSJ to SSJ2 level from DBZ, that's perfectly fine. That means they're stronger than the entire main cast up to the end of the Cell saga, halfway through DBZ. What they should have done though is have Krillin, Piccolo, Tien, etc. face some of the stronger guys rather than Goku/Vegeta take care of them. Imagine if the Trio de dangers went after Piccolo, etc? That's the only thing they could have improved.
No one was expecting every Universe to be Blue-level. I expected every universe participating to have at least 1-2 combatants who could put up a good fight (or use special skills to make up for the lack of strength) for Goku/Vegeta or the other U7 team members. As Artorias and the others mentioned, having U7 dominate is just boring and not very satisfying. We all know the gang is going to survive after this Tournament somehow, but make the journey interesting with some genuine good tension and struggle. It's disappointing when a character who's been advertised as someone to look out for, someone who made it to the 'semi-finals', doesn't live up to their promotion.

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Re: I love the fact that U7 is dominating the tournament

Post by Xeogran » Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:59 am

Zagacious wrote:All the characters that are well thought out like Maji Kayo are way too weak to matter.
wtf Maji Kayo destroyed Dyspo and only lost to Jiren, how's he weak. If anything he was one of the stronger characters on the Tournament.

Goku needed SSB to get out of his grip too.

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Re: I love the fact that U7 is dominating the tournament

Post by namekiansaiyan » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:14 am

Universe 7 are dominating minus Tien, Piccolo and Krillin.

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Re: I love the fact that U7 is dominating the tournament

Post by HeroR » Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:55 am

JazzMazz wrote: My point is, an earned victory is one achieved through genuine struggle, which is something the arc has trouble potraying some of the time. For example in, 101 and 98, Goku's struggle in those episodes didn't feel genuine since we know he isn't fighting seriously.
Why can't an easy victory be earned? I mean, you put the time and effort to be that strong, so why wouldn't you see beating a tough foe easily as earned? If I put the time and effort studying for a test and an arc with no problem, didn't I earned that?

And Goku struggling against fodder were all to make someone else look good, not Goku.
Xeogran wrote:
wtf Maji Kayo destroyed Dyspo and only lost to Jiren, how's he weak. If anything he was one of the stronger characters on the Tournament.

Goku needed SSB to get out of his grip too.
Maji Kayo held down Dyspo for a few seconds before breaking free without Jiren's help. That really isn't 'destroying'.
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: I love the fact that U7 is dominating the tournament

Post by JazzMazz » Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:12 am

HeroR wrote:
JazzMazz wrote: My point is, an earned victory is one achieved through genuine struggle, which is something the arc has trouble potraying some of the time. For example in, 101 and 98, Goku's struggle in those episodes didn't feel genuine since we know he isn't fighting seriously.
Why can't an easy victory be earned? I mean, you put the time and effort to be that strong, so why wouldn't you see beating a tough foe easily as earned? If I put the time and effort studying for a test and an arc with no problem, didn't I earned that?

And Goku struggling against fodder were all to make someone else look good, not Goku.
If a character wins a fight, or has the potential to win a fight easily because they did X amount of training, then what is their to keep the audience invested if their is no real tension or stakes in the fight or isn't character motivated in any way? You can still have fights where the hero wins easily, but those fights need to drive or demonstrate character motivation or growth in some respect, otherwise they just feel like a cheap waste of time. The amount of development you get before a fight is important, however, unless they actually utilize the characterization within that fight for a reason why they won, just having the character destroy other characters because its "cool" isn't entertaining and no, it doesn't feel earned

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