Vegeta doesn't train as good as Goku

[Hakaishin Liquir]

I've noticed that some people complain about how Toriyama hates Vegeta since Vegeta trains the most but he still is weaker than Vegeta, but this reason for this is that Vegeta isn't as efficient as Goku is at training. Vegeta thinks that torturing his muscles is all that he has to do in order to get stronger, but he fails to realize that getting some rest and relaxation is also necessary for improving. In order for your muscles to get stronger, your muscle fibers must get torn and then repair themselves while you're sleeping or relaxing, and since Vegeta gets too little rest and relaxation, his muscles don't improve at the same rate as Goku's. This principle is shown in the Cell Arc when Goku tells Vegeta that going in the ROSAT for a 2nd time will do nothing but torture his body, and this is also shown when Whis tells Vegeta that he needs to relax more.

[VegettoEX]

Lately I've been noticing that a lot of Vegeta fanboys are complaining

This is similar to another comment you were just warned on. There are better ways to frame your comments. If you are genuinely looking to discuss something, rather than passively-aggressively (or flat-out antagonistically) attack certain other fans, there is a better way to make your point. Strive for something better, because this is not reflective of what we ask of Kanzenshuu community members.

[Hakaishin Liquir]

Lately I've been noticing that a lot of Vegeta fanboys are complaining

This is similar to another comment you were just warned on. There are better ways to frame your comments. If you are genuinely looking to discuss something, rather than passively-aggressively (or flat-out antagonistically) attack certain other fans, there is a better way to make your point. Strive for something better, because this is not reflective of what we ask of Kanzenshuu community members.

Sorry about that, a thread I just read on another forum made me annoyed with the Vegeta fanbase and it made me lose my cool. I'll make sure that I don't make those passive-aggressive comments, and I removed them from both posts.

[sintzu]

Goku simply had advantages that Vegeta didn't have access to.

As a kid, he got to train under Roshi, Korin & Kami while Vegeta most likely just relied on himself.

He learned the kaioken and spirit bomb due to being dead while Vegeta was never dead that long nor would he be allowed to train with King Kai if he was.

After the fight with Goku, Vegeta just got a zenkai boost while Goku got that and 6 days of training under 100× gravity. Vegeta didn't have that kind of ship when he went to Namek.

In the ROSAT, Goku had a training partner while Vegeta didn't thanks to his pride.

During the 7 years between Cell and Buu, Goku got special training from the other world while Vegeta was stuck on earth with its limited tech.

After all that, Vegeta still managed to keep up, be useful and stay relevant in some way even though Goku was miles ahead of him, something his other rivals couldn't do.

Now that Vegeta is getting the same training that Goku has, he's been able to keep up just fine (in Super's manga at least).

[Hakaishin Liquir]

Goku simply had advantages that Vegeta didn't have access to.

As a kid, he got to train under Roshi, Korin & Kami while Vegeta most likely just relied on himself.

He learned the kaioken and spirit bomb due to being dead while Vegeta was never dead that long nor would he be allowed to train with King Kai if he was.

After the fight with Goku, Vegeta just got a zenkai boost while Goku got that and 6 days of training under 100× gravity. Vegeta didn't have that kind of ship when he went to Namek.

In the ROSAT, Goku had a training partner while Vegeta didn't thanks to his pride.

During the 7 years between Cell and Buu, Goku got special training from the other world while Vegeta was stuck on earth with its limited tech.

After all that, Vegeta still managed to keep up, be useful and stay relevant in some way even though Goku was miles ahead of him, something his other rivals couldn't do.

Now that Vegeta is getting the same training that Goku has, he's been able to keep up just fine (in Super's manga at least).

Yes those do apply to DBZ and can be used for reasons why Vegeta was behind Goku, but that don't apply to DBS, in which Goku is still shown to get more out of training than Vegeta.

[ABED]

Vegeta had a huge head start over Goku.

During the 7 years between Cell and Buu, Goku got special training from the other world while Vegeta was stuck on earth with its limited tech.

I don't think he got any training from Grand Kaio, whereas Vegeta had the gravity room.

[sintzu]

I don't think he got any training from Grand Kaio, whereas Vegeta had the gravity room.

I don't know what he did but something or someone got him to Ssj3 so whatever it was it was better than what Vegeta had.

[Hakaishin Liquir]

I don't think he got any training from Grand Kaio, whereas Vegeta had the gravity room.

I don't know what he did but something or someone got him to Ssj3 so whatever it was it was better than what Vegeta had.

That doesn't mean that Goku had some major training advantage over Vegeta, it just means that Goku is better at training and unlocking transformations.

[sintzu]

I don't think he got any training from Grand Kaio, whereas Vegeta had the gravity room.

I don't know what he did but something or someone got him to Ssj3 so whatever it was it was better than what Vegeta had.

That doesn't mean that Goku had some major training advantage over Vegeta, it just means that Goku is better at training and unlocking transformations.

Goku is without question a better fighter and trainer but that shouldn't undermine the advantages he had such as the ones I mentioned.

[ABED]

Vegeta had the ultimate advantage - he was born with a huge head start. Goku is simply the better warrior. Vegeta immediately understood why Goku made such huge gains in the Room of Spirit and Time despite having not even spent a full year inside, and yet he doesn't copy what worked.

[Angrist Hand]

Goku steals techniques and is given outside energy boosts. Goku chases power with no limiter.

[Kinokima]

Vegeta does train hard and the fact that he asked for help from Whis shows he is learning that he needs to do more than he was doing in the past.

But Goku will ALWAYS be ahead of Vegeta. Goku not only has natural born talent that Vegeta lacks (not saying Vegeta isn't strong in his own right he just isn't Goku) and Goku trains just as hard as Vegeta.

Vegeta's goal is ultimately Goku. Goku's goal is ultimately to fight the strongest person possible Of course Vegeta would want to fight the strongest person too but he really wants it because Goku wants it. That's really the difference. Vegeta doesn't really look beyond Goku.

Note I don't see that as a negative thing at all. Vegeta is my favorite character. I actually find the way that Vegeta is inspired by Goku to be very endearing. Goku makes Vegeta stronger. So as much as Goku being stronger than him may hurt Vegeta's pride it also has made him stronger than he ever would have been without Goku.

But it would be pretty dumb to kid myself to say Vegeta will ever ultimately be stronger than Goku. He never will. And it's not just because Goku is the main character (although of course that is part of it)

But personally I don't really care. As long as Vegeta stays relevant to the story and continues to grow in strength that's all that matters to me.

[Lionel]

Vegeta probably had the best tutors the Saiyan race and Planet Trade Organisation could provide. The most Goku's terrestrial homeland could provide is a localised deity with a power level in the low hundreds with an admittedly invaluable ability to sense Ki. Goku didn't begin to overtake Vegeta until he started training in conditions that were likely unheard of by Saiyan standards like 100x normal gravity.

Efficiency has only ever come into the equation when it came to matters like acclimating to the Super Saiyan state and completing Super Saiyan Blue instead of frequently switching it out for Super Saiyan God. I can't imagine the kind of training conditions Goku could have been offered when the inhabitants of the afterlife were unable to measure up to Goku's base power for him to try out the Fusion Dance.

[TheOne]

You are correct. Realistically, Vegeta methods hinder him from getting stronger.

But let's not forget the real reason Vegeta isn't catching up to Goku. It's because he's not the main character.

Who knows what the writers have planned down the road. They could make an arc where Vegeta is the superpower and Goku is the one trailing. Doubt it, but it's possible. I'm a huge Vegeta fan so I'm hoping that actually happens

[Polyphase Avatron]

You mean "as well".

[Simere]

Goku simply had advantages that Vegeta didn't have access to.

As a kid, he got to train under Roshi, Korin & Kami while Vegeta most likely just relied on himself.

Roshi and Korin taught him nothing about fighting, they simply gave him good exercise. Vegeta had the advantage there. The result of all that exertion didn't even put him anywhere near Vegeta's natural born power. Training with Popo was certainly helpful, though. Goku's spiritual strength is understated. Do you really think Vegeta would have been willing to learn what Popo had to teach, given the same opportunity?

During the 7 years between Cell and Buu, Goku got special training from the other world while Vegeta was stuck on earth with its limited tech.

There's no proof of that, is there? If anything, based on what we know, Vegeta should have had the advantage.

Now that Vegeta is getting the same training that Goku has, he's been able to keep up just fine (in Super's manga at least).

If by keep up you mean catch up eventually, yes. The Black arc of the manga was the clearest demonstration in Super so far that Goku will pull ahead even with the same training. Unlike SSBKK, which could be argued that Vegeta just didn't have the opportunity to learn, Completed SSB was Goku becoming stronger simply by having the better idea.