Does Japan really hate Tien? (Episode 106)

[Timetraveller]

I just watched a video that's gotten a lot of attention recently with regards to episode 106 of DBS. It's called "Japan Doesn't Like Tien" and it's an entertaining rant about how poorly Toei handled Tien's character in episode 106 and goes in depth about what Tien is capable of. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42HNvl0e26I)

Does anyone here actually know what Japan thinks of Tien as a character and how they reacted to episode 106 on forums, social media, etc? I searched google for any Japanese DB websites that discuss the episode and found this: http://goo.gl/GSzuJD. Can anyone translate the comments? I can't read Japanese and tbh, I'm not sure what the website is for but Google translate tells me that Japan was just as disappointed as we were. Does Japan really hate Tien and is that why Toei treated him the way they did?

[sintzu]

I think they just don't know what to do with him. Toriyama himself didn't use him that much apart from his 2 fights with Goku so if the author didn't seem that interested in him then it's no surprise to see that rub off on the staff as well. I don't know about people in Japan but I think he's a great character who's very underappreciated.

[SsjCookie]

I don't know about Japans feelings towards Tien, but I'm more or less indifferent to him.
I don't hate or like him because frankly, I don't think there's much to like or hate about him.
The writers fault no doubt for never giving Tien enough attention character wise, and in Super it will not be different I'm afraid.

[Nickolaidas]

I think the problem lies in the fact that Tien is a lesser Piccolo, who in turn is a lesser Vegeta. The only thing Piccolo has going for him *now* (that is, differentiate him from Vegeta) is his relationship with Gohan. Tien has Chiaotzu, but no one really cares about the latter, so Tien is pretty much 'useless' at this point.

In Dragonball, fighters become irrelevant once they become very weaker from Goku, unless they have quirky personalities and the plot does interesting things with them. Unfortunately, Tien's whole redemption thing was stressed in the Daimao saga but unfortunately was never touched upon ever again.

Funny thing is, characters like Tien could become more relevant with the right ideas or by using said ideas better. For example, the witch that possessed Roshi and Tien's students could have been the daughter of someone Tien killed or brutalized in the past. Obsessed with revenge, she slowly poisons Tien's body and mind with black magic and makes his life a nightmare until Goku and Chiaotzu help him out (and rekindle their relationship) and Tien grows stronger and more resolved from this whole ordeal. Or a Cyborg Tao killing people and framing Tien, causing Krillin to go after the triclops with friendship and civic duty colliding inside the runt (until proof can absolve the former assassin).

[MajinMan]

I didn't know that Japan was a person.

[Basako]

No, I don't think Japan hates Tenshinhan. I don't think he never made it that bad in the polls to conclude something as hard as he was hated, he had a normal ranking in relation to his role in the series. His importance went decreasing, but I don't think he ever looked bad, as maybe Yamcha, he did what he could against enemies far stronger.

This is not the case in Super, I think the youtuber explains very well his trajectory. For start, I would have been fine if he didn't even show up in Bulma's birthday party, that was a bit out of character, but whatever. He did fight Beerus, but that was like nothing. Gohan was the one being treated like shit there. Normal fights in RoF, Yamcha for not being considered as a fighter was the thing there and more shit for Gohan.

Next two arcs, Goku and Vegeta time. Piccolo got the shit, Toriyama made him retire instead of fighting Frost himself, I do think this came from the author. Also Boo, stupid exam or falling asleep in the anime.

But in the tournament arc, it was like the perfect soil for earthling seeds to grow, for everyone really. Yamcha's seed wasn't even used, Roshi's got the best spot in the center of the pot, Krilin got the border and Tenshinhan totally out. I don't think the writers even had any bad intention, I think he looks well in their eyes.

As the guy explains, everyone got handjobs or at least neutral treatment in the recruitments except Tenshinhan, who was beaten by the weakest member and all he did in the team battle was to get a punch in the stomach, he didn't perform one single attack. He wasn't even considered in the first place, it happened that Roshi was visiting him so Goku picked Ten too. Well, we thought, he will probably get the love in the tournament itself. We were wrong.

In a tournament full of fighters of all the PL scale, who would have thought he wouldn't get any fight. For start, Gohan's strategy was the problem, I wish they never went with that, but even like that, it could have been done, they just had to write it. By the way, it makes no sense why they droped the strategy, if they had made it that Kale's chaos attack was the cause or maybe some middle class attackers made them drop it. Back to Ten, after a bunch of episodes he uses the Kikoho in The Preecho, a shared elimination with Roshi. The Kikoho is great, though it looks it's the only thing he has. It was well used in this case, so fine, but that was not a fight for him. Finally, his episode, we thought he would get his moment in there. Was it? It was a moment, but... Apart from being insulted by the jerk of the group, I think he does that with anyone though, he got to "fight" the danger source. I disagree with the youtuber about this, he says Goku and Vegeta neutralized the danger with Prum, but it's not true, the blob guy wasn't receiving the beams because Tenshinhan went after him and he was using them against the clones. Which was fine, it was quite clever strategy and it permited one of the four parts get close enough to launch a Kikoho against Hermila. But here is the thing, this didn't taste like a fight to me. Also, he won, but it was screwed by Hermila taking him out with him in an unbelievable turn of events where he breaks the floor and Ten falls but he doesn't. I think the writers thought we're supposed to feel it's fine just because in the end Hermila is eliminated by the three other clones. Well, I don't think it was fine, it was awful.

So this, I liked Tenshinhan until now, I don't like this Tenshinhan at all. I'm sure he lost many fans and he didn't get new ones, that's for sure. It's a pity, because Toriyama put him among the ten fighters and that means he still appreciates and considers him enough. Toei screwed him and this was his last chance.

[Timetraveller]

I didn't know that Japan was a person.

It's not but character popularity does sometimes determine how they're written into the story. That's why we had 3 movies about Broly and why future Trunks and Frieza were brought back by Toei. Japan always has character popularity polls.

[Lionel]

Tenshinhan is a solemn faced philosophical martial artist who lives in seclusion and aspires to better himself while challenging others. When you think of it like that he mirrors Goku's yearning for fights, except he happens to have a generally serious outlook on life barring things like volleyball slapstick. We know Tenshinhan enjoys the company of the original core group from the DB tournaments, but it isn't enough for him to interact with them in any personal manner like Piccolo does by mingling with the Son family outside of fights or tournaments. Most of his time is spent working alongside his fellow Crane student and lifelong best friend, Chaozu. Does it sound much different than Piccolo having a close relationship with the Sons or Vegeta with the Briefs? Difference is, as someone else pointed out, no one really concerns themselves about Chaozu because he's almost completely devoid of any characterisation after the 22nd tournament.

From my personal standpoint, I enjoy watching Tenshinhan fight more than Vegeta these days. We know he's capable of using some dynamic and interesting abilities with a wide range of conceivable applications. What can be said about Vegeta's fighting abilities that we haven't already seen? The man has fought more than every other character in the show sans Goku. If Toei and Toriyama actually took the time to build upon what Tenshinhan knows, maybe give him a nudge with certain previously acknowledged perks, he could start to make a comeback into the fighting scene. Knowing how they operate and what the fans generally seem to prefer, such an outcome is unlikely to happen. Instead we'll get more transformations and Saiyans with some Freeza and a few others sprinkled around.

[FortuneSSJ]

How many threads we have about this matter now?!
Anyway, that youtuber doesn't seem to like him much either since he can't even write his name correctly.

[Lord Beerus]

No.

And that video does not deserve the attention it is getting.

The general direction Super takes with its story is ultimately determined by the whimsies of a man who writes stories based on how much amusement and personal enjoyment he gets out of it.

[Arugela]

It's kind of a shame they don't use them more. From a story standpoint they are far more interesting than fighters. There is tons of potential back story in each character. If only they would use that and fill out more of their characters. And preferably in the anime instead of in side stories or video games. There is no end of, "adventures," they could go on and use in other ways that lead into or indirectly affect the main story. There's is no end of knowledge or items or techniques they could be taught or random other things they could get from weak characters and their back story. The main story is too blunt. It has a tone of stuff to fall back on and make up but they never use it. Or they use it so sparingly it's barely there.

All of the characters are unique in their potential histories even if they are copies of each other. And that can always be brought out more and explored to create stories. It would make much better filler to just use it to explore your character and create/explore more inconsequential characters and side deviations/adventures.

On a side note, people have been saying tiens defeat was unrealistic becasue he was standing in the wrong place and saying they jipped I'm. But I think he was on a plateau near the edge on a higher ridge area. When the ground was blasted it clearly shows him flying backwards. This is how he got off the edge. The enemy landed on the ground near the edge and then jumped to start moving. His clones grabbed him mid jump and clearly used their energy to force him quickly downwards to meet with Tien Shinhan in the fall.. They seem to be able to partially use their power to project themselves temporarily but not fully fly.

I still think he got jipped in strategy. Were the rocks so heavy or him so slow he couldn't have used the to block with like a shield a few times and get more clones closer(I know it slows him by 1/4 but still.). There could have been way more suspense in him getting to the enemy and a better fight all around. The ending could still be the same. The enemy didn't really try that hard either. Unless he had some limitation if firing time which they did not specify directly. Unless I missed something subtle that indicates this. I'm also surprised nobody question those sniper rounds as weapons and not abilities. Isn't that a copy of a specific weapon from a past episode. Someone had the same wrist things and thy were destroyed IIRC. Is it to be assumed those are natural weapons and a technique... I thought frosts weapons were natural also. Or were they weapons he attached to his arm/armor.

[SsjCookie]

You can better change your title in "Why does Japan hate bald people?"
Because seriously, I see a pattern here.

It makes me fearing for Piccolo now.

[Arugela]

I saw some videos on how 4 fingered persons were possibly representing yakuza and other similar things and how chinese characters might not be liked by people in japan or by the writers. No idea if it's true but are the bald characters all representative at some point in things that are not in a friendly current situation with japan? Might explain it a bit. Tien is representing something chinese or similar. What was piccolo originally supposed to be like. Is he also like an overlord or something from japans past or a Chinese ruler or something.

[Jigurashi]

I don't think Japan hates Ten at all. But not only does it seem like they don't know what to do with him, there doesn't seem to be much care for him. Also the video isn't entirely accurate.

Ten as a character has been pretty uninteresting to watch for a long time now imo. Hell until recently he's only been the Kikoho guy but when he actually uses different moves they either have him fail miserably or it's pretty lackluster. I don't enjoy watching him fight since the 23rd Budokai as afterwards it just became pretty boring to watch him fight imo.

[BlueBasilisk]

I don't think Japan hates Ten at all. But not only does it seem like they don't know what to do with him, there doesn't seem to be much care for him. Also the video isn't entirely accurate.

Ten as a character has been pretty uninteresting to watch for a long time now imo. Hell until recently he's only been the Kikoho guy but when he actually uses different moves they either have him fail miserably or it's pretty lackluster. I don't enjoy watching him fight since the 23rd Budokai as afterwards it just became pretty boring to watch him fight imo.

I feel like the problem with Tien is that a lot of his techniques aren't very useful outside of a close-range 1-on-1 brawl World Tournament style and most of the ones that are have been copied by other stronger characters except for the Kikoho. Cell demonstrated the problem with multi-form and he was much stronger than his foe. Tien doesn't have that benefit.

[TekTheNinja]

the witch that possessed Roshi and Tien's students could have been the daughter of someone Tien killed or brutalized in the past.

I have been saying the same thing since before that episode even aired. Instead she was just pissy that he refused to train her a long time ago. How petty and stupid. Like seriously, did everyone just forget that Tenshinhan used to be an assassin or something? I say "they" and not "Toriyama" because that episode was most likely entirely a Toei plot.

[Jigurashi]

I don't think Japan hates Ten at all. But not only does it seem like they don't know what to do with him, there doesn't seem to be much care for him. Also the video isn't entirely accurate.

Ten as a character has been pretty uninteresting to watch for a long time now imo. Hell until recently he's only been the Kikoho guy but when he actually uses different moves they either have him fail miserably or it's pretty lackluster. I don't enjoy watching him fight since the 23rd Budokai as afterwards it just became pretty boring to watch him fight imo.

I feel like the problem with Tien is that a lot of his techniques aren't very useful outside of a close-range 1-on-1 brawl World Tournament style and most of the ones that are have been copied by other stronger characters except for the Kikoho. Cell demonstrated the problem with multi-form and he was much stronger than his foe. Tien doesn't have that benefit.[/quote/]
That is a good point as well. What's done is done though and Toei hasn't changed my opinion of Ten. I care so little for him I legit forgot at one point that he was even in the tournament. I'm curious how this will affect how fans in general talk about Ten moving forward in like 2-3 sagas down the line.

[lord turbo]

I think they just don't know what to do with him. Toriyama himself didn't use him that much apart from his 2 fights with Goku so if the author didn't seem that interested in him then it's no surprise to see that rub off on the staff as well. I don't know about people in Japan but I think he's a great character who's very underappreciated.

Thus, Tien has that "Meh, I don't give a shit" feel from Toriyama. His heterosexual life-partner Chaozu is a constantly joke and disappointment to fans both in and out of universe, he has no real connection to the main cast, he hasn't been with them or had relevant history or friendship like Roshi and Kuririn who get all the love while he gets his ass beat and no one appears to give a damn about him in general. He's rather bland, boring, and at this point kind of generic. Every since Goku greatly outclassed him during the 23rd Budokai saga he became essentially a useless prop, his character went as far as it could since his next showing is him getting the hell beat out of him by Nappa (granted, everyone suffered the same except Kuririn for some odd reason, he got the most love out of anyone during that saga). He was dead for the remainder of the Freeza saga and just, he's nothing more than a glorified extra.

He doesn't visit or hang with friends like Yamcha and Kuririn, he doesn't have some mentor role to latch onto that keeps Piccolo relevant, Goku has Vegeta as a rival so he's essentially outdated to the point it might have been best if him and Chaozu stayed dead after the Freeza saga and where never heard from again. I don't want to sound like I'm dismissing or insulting the character, but it is what it is. He's literally just there, he's equally useless as say Yajirobe and Yamcha and he's just been a major disappointment this entire saga from beginning to end so much so I'm convinced Toriyama nor any of the anime staff give a damn about him, he's just a prop and nothing more. Fans only hope of something decent is Toy's version of things in the DBS manga.

[sintzu]

I don't want to sound like I'm dismissing or insulting the character, but it is what it is.

Everything you said is true. I like the character but unfortunetely he's been treated very badly with no signs of any change.

[BWri]

I don't want to sound like I'm dismissing or insulting the character, but it is what it is.

Everything you said is true. I like the character but unfortunetely he's been treated very badly with no signs of any change.

I add to that sentiment as well. Tien or Tenshinhan is my second favorite character. I loved him in DB, loved the effort he put in vs Nappa and loved the potential for growth he had during the Namek arc as he trained with Kaio. His fighting style and no nonsense attitude always stood out for me in the DB series. Tien always legit felt like he was from another series, like Hokuto no Ken or something with his serious demeanor. But side characters get very little love in this series so once he became weaker than Gokus two newest rivals, he slowly made his way to the trash heap with Super putting him at the very edge of it with episode 106. But we still have the Bojack movie and the RoF movie to look back semi-fondly :'(