Does Japan really hate Tien? (Episode 106)

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Does Japan really hate Tien? (Episode 106)

Post by Cipher » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:45 am

I live in Japan right now and I've literally never heard anyone talk about Ten.

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Re: Does Japan really hate Tien? (Episode 106)

Post by Michsi » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:50 am

Cipher wrote:I live in Japan right now and I've literally never heard anyone talk about Ten.
Isn't absolute indifference actually worse?

I seriously doubt he is actually disliked, just irrelevant to a large part of the fandom.

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Re: Does Japan really hate Tien? (Episode 106)

Post by coola » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:06 am

I always disliked they brought him back, he said good bye to everyone at end of Cell Saga, and that should stay, especially since Toriyama/Toei have no idea what to do with him anymore, reducing him to Kikoho spammer.
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Re: Does Japan really hate Tien? (Episode 106)

Post by omaro34 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:43 am

Lord Beerus wrote:No.

And that video does not deserve the attention it is getting.

The general direction Super takes with its story is ultimately determined by the whimsies of a man who writes stories based on how much amusement and personal enjoyment he gets out of it.
Part of it getting attention is due to the terms the guy is using. Before 2017, I've never heard of term "Toriyama handjob", which basically means giving characters power ups that according to him they don't deserve.
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Re: Does Japan really hate Tien? (Episode 106)

Post by JazzHands » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:07 pm

Toei not Japan not Toriyama dont care for Tenshinhan. Toriyama has always included Tien in his works. While Toei with movies, filler arcs like Garlic Jr and series like GT have excluded Tien. Toei created episode 89 and 90 not Toriyama. That will not be in the manga. Toriyama included Tien in BOG and ROF and TOP. If it was up to Toei they would not. The anime representation of Tenshinhan in this arc was them trying to bash him then do what little they can with him while respecting Toriyamas bullet points. I expect to see a drastic difference in his story telling in the Manga.

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Re: Does Japan really hate Tien? (Episode 106)

Post by VegettoEX » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:12 pm

If you don't feel that content producers using the shtick of exaggerated, antagonistic language based on dubious claims should be given attention and additional viewership, do not watch more of their material and do not share their material elsewhere.
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Re: Does Japan really hate Tien? (Episode 106)

Post by JazzHands » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:20 pm

Cipher wrote:I live in Japan right now and I've literally never heard anyone talk about Ten.
I've seen a pole where Tenshinhan was voted top 10 by fans in Japan. I dont have the website but I do believe the user Shinda does. And it seems hes one of the most discussed topics or brought up either for love of him or confusion about him. This youtuber doesnt even make DragonBall videos yet he made a random one about Tien.

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Re: Does Japan really hate Tien? (Episode 106)

Post by Dbzfan94 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:45 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote: Anyway, that youtuber doesn't seem to like him much either since he can't even write his name correctly.
Is this type of underhanded comment necessary?? Like it or not, Tien is the dub name. It's the correct name for the dub. No sense going "lol Tien isn't his name whole video is invalid."

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Re: Does Japan really hate Tien? (Episode 106)

Post by Cipher » Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:50 am

JazzHands wrote:
Cipher wrote:I live in Japan right now and I've literally never heard anyone talk about Ten.
I've seen a pole where Tenshinhan was voted top 10 by fans in Japan. I dont have the website but I do believe the user Shinda does. And it seems hes one of the most discussed topics or brought up either for love of him or confusion about him. This youtuber doesnt even make DragonBall videos yet he made a random one about Tien.
I was lightly joking and waiting for someone to ask how often I hear people talk about any Dragon Ball characters. (Almost never, but a couple of times Goku.)

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Re: Does Japan really hate Tien? (Episode 106)

Post by VegettoEX » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:26 am

Dbzfan94 wrote:
FortuneSSJ wrote: Anyway, that youtuber doesn't seem to like him much either since he can't even write his name correctly.
Is this type of underhanded comment necessary?? Like it or not, Tien is the dub name. It's the correct name for the dub. No sense going "lol Tien isn't his name whole video is invalid."
If you're going to make a deep-dive video invoking the franchise's origin county's (apparently hivemind?)-opinion on a character, if you want to actually come across as an authority, it would be best to use terminology from said original source.

I truly hold nothing against international dubs or their fans, but something's immediately amiss if you're talking about Japanese culture and opinions and the creators of the show and you're tossing out FUNimation name changes. Strive for something better. Strive for kindness, understanding, and a comprehensive understanding of the source material you're supposed to be authoritatively speaking on to a global audience. This video fails on all levels, "Tien" being the least of its issues.
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Re: Does Japan really hate Tien? (Episode 106)

Post by Soppa Saia People » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:29 am

Dbzfan94 wrote:
FortuneSSJ wrote: Anyway, that youtuber doesn't seem to like him much either since he can't even write his name correctly.
Is this type of underhanded comment necessary?? Like it or not, Tien is the dub name. It's the correct name for the dub. No sense going "lol Tien isn't his name whole video is invalid."
No offense, but is constantly going, "Sub fans do this too" and "The dub isn't wrong" necessary ?
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Re: Does Japan really hate Tien? (Episode 106)

Post by Timetraveller » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:41 am

VegettoEX wrote:
Dbzfan94 wrote:
FortuneSSJ wrote: Anyway, that youtuber doesn't seem to like him much either since he can't even write his name correctly.
Is this type of underhanded comment necessary?? Like it or not, Tien is the dub name. It's the correct name for the dub. No sense going "lol Tien isn't his name whole video is invalid."
If you're going to make a deep-dive video invoking the franchise's origin county's (apparently hivemind?)-opinion on a character, if you want to actually come across as an authority, it would be best to use terminology from said original source.

I truly hold nothing against international dubs or their fans, but something's immediately amiss if you're talking about Japanese culture and opinions and the creators of the show and you're tossing out FUNimation name changes. Strive for something better. Strive for kindness, understanding, and a comprehensive understanding of the source material you're supposed to be authoritatively speaking on to a global audience. This video fails on all levels, "Tien" being the least of its issues.
I'm not sure what issue you have with the video but I don't see how you can disagree with the main point of the video that Tien was a wasted opportunity in DBS. All the video did was demonstrate what he was capable of in Dragonball in a way that's entertaining to viewers and how less deserving characters became relevant while Tien was pushed to the back. Was he speaking to the sub fans? Or was he speaking to the western audience who felt disappointed with Toei and Toriyama's treatment of Tien? To them, it's "Tien".

I disagree with him that Japan hates Tien. Many of the Japanese fans (according to google translate) disliked Tien's mistreatment too but that doesn't make his whole video invalid.

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Re: Does Japan really hate Tien? (Episode 106)

Post by VegettoEX » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:45 am

I don't wish to give the video any more attention than I've already given it in my response. As I clearly stated, "Tien" is the least of its issues, and I don't think videos like this should be glorified or over-discussed to encourage any more copycats.
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Re: Does Japan really hate Tien? (Episode 106)

Post by TekTheNinja » Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:33 pm

VegettoEX wrote:I don't wish to give the video any more attention than I've already given it in my response. As I clearly stated, "Tien" is the least of its issues, and I don't think videos like this should be glorified or over-discussed to encourage any more copycats.
Copycats of a well edited, good video that stirs discussion and focuses on Super's poor treatment of characters? I would quite like to encourage copycats thank you very much. If you have problems with the video, feel free to state them, since as of now you're seemingly hating on a quality content creator for no reason at all.

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Re: Does Japan really hate Tien? (Episode 106)

Post by VegettoEX » Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:38 pm

TekTheNinja wrote:Copycats of a well edited, good video that stirs discussion and focuses on Super's poor treatment of characters? I would quite like to encourage copycats thank you very much. If you have problems with the video, feel free to state them, since as of now you're seemingly hating on a quality content creator for no reason at all.
VegettoEX wrote:using the shtick of exaggerated, antagonistic language based on dubious claims
I have already stated these items several times over. This is a dime-a-dozen and is not the type of content I am interested in.
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Re: Does Japan really hate Tien? (Episode 106)

Post by TBMx » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:29 pm

Without Chaotzu, Tien has no defining character trait beyond being vaguely stoic. Without Chaotzu, there isn't much potential for drama and breaching the character's exterior. And he's not very marketable. It's not that they hate him, rather they're indifferent, which is worse, much worse than hate. Because at least hate is a reaction. A writer can do something with hate. But with indifference, and lack of passion, there's nothing to get a hold of with Tien. Nothing that a writer can expand upon.

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Re: Does Japan really hate Tien? (Episode 106)

Post by TekTheNinja » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:46 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
TekTheNinja wrote:Copycats of a well edited, good video that stirs discussion and focuses on Super's poor treatment of characters? I would quite like to encourage copycats thank you very much. If you have problems with the video, feel free to state them, since as of now you're seemingly hating on a quality content creator for no reason at all.
VegettoEX wrote:using the shtick of exaggerated, antagonistic language based on dubious claims
I have already stated these items several times over. This is a dime-a-dozen and is not the type of content I am interested in.
It sounds like you're replying to the title, and not the video itself. It honestly appears as if you saw the title, watched a minute of it and immediately reacted, as you haven't actually cited anything wrong with the primary point of the video.

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Re: Does Japan really hate Tien? (Episode 106)

Post by Timetraveller » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:08 pm

TekTheNinja wrote:
VegettoEX wrote:I don't wish to give the video any more attention than I've already given it in my response. As I clearly stated, "Tien" is the least of its issues, and I don't think videos like this should be glorified or over-discussed to encourage any more copycats.
Copycats of a well edited, good video that stirs discussion and focuses on Super's poor treatment of characters? I would quite like to encourage copycats thank you very much. If you have problems with the video, feel free to state them, since as of now you're seemingly hating on a quality content creator for no reason at all.
I'd rather see a video that genuinely critiques DBS than the dime-a-dozen, click-bait fake spoilers and absurd fan theories on Youtube.

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Re: Does Japan really hate Tien? (Episode 106)

Post by VegettoEX » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:38 pm

I don't know how many times I can keep repeating myself here. Far beyond all else, I find the video's usage of exaggerated, antagonistic language to be amateur-hour internet personality nonsense and I have zero interest in consuming material produced this way. This extends far beyond its title and its first minute of commentary, and sets a negative basis for any further attempts at said commentary.

At best that shtick is played out, and at worst it continues to perpetuate a Dragon Ball community discourse culture in that style. Enough with the "asspull" forum comments, and enough with the "Toriyama handjob" video commentary.

You cannot effectively deliver authoritative, concise, thoughtful commentary — which is what I'm looking for — in this manner. Whatever point there might be is lost, and that's on the commentator, not me as a consumer.
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Re: Does Japan really hate Tien? (Episode 106)

Post by HeroR » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:49 pm

VegettoEX wrote:I don't know how many times I can keep repeating myself here. Far beyond all else, I find the video's usage of exaggerated, antagonistic language to be amateur-hour internet personality nonsense and I have zero interest in consuming material produced this way. This extends far beyond its title and its first minute of commentary, and sets a negative basis for any further attempts at said commentary.

At best that shtick is played out, and at worst it continues to perpetuate a Dragon Ball community discourse culture in that style. Enough with the "asspull" forum comments, and enough with the "Toriyama handjob" video commentary.

You cannot effectively deliver authoritative, concise, thoughtful commentary — which is what I'm looking for — in this manner. Whatever point there might be is lost, and that's on the commentator, not me as a consumer.
That is how I feel.

The video has a point, but it's done in such away that kills debate and seems like a meme.
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