Getting rid of transformations really does seem to not sit well with Toei

[Saturnine]

First bringing back the regular SSj forms for Goku and Vegeta, even though they were supposed to be replaced by SSj Blue, then making Future Trunks go grade 3, even though FPSSj was supposed to replace it entirely, and now Freeza using the bulky form again, even though he was heavily implied to have mastered his body to put out 100% without needing to get bulky.

I'm beginning to think that Toei is indeed more interested in potential merchandise and video game options than in logic and consistency.

[Arugela]

I think frieza was just using his bulk form to demonstrate to frost to make him use his stamina. Not sure why though. I was under the impression frieza outclassed him to the extent he could outclass him. Or was he doing it to teach gohan!?

He specifically told frost it used stamina so to use it all at once so he used the form. The hint was it was using his stamina quick.

[Timetraveller]

That's probably the biggest problem I have with Super. Their new forms are pretty much recolors of old forms and they are ruining the old forms by making them ridiculously easy to achieve.

It's like a bad informercial. "You just do this and it works! It's THAT easy! What are you waiting for?"

[Saturnine]

That's probably the biggest problem I have with Super. Their new forms are pretty much recolors of old forms and they are ruining the old forms but making them ridiculously easy to achieve.

It's like a bad informercial. "You just do this and it works! It's THAT easy! What are you waiting for?"

Not really the point of my complaint, but I guess that is an issue too

[Nickolaidas]

I think frieza was just using his bulk form to demonstrate to frost to make him use his stamina. Not sure why though.

He did it to deprive Frost of his dexterity and ensure his ring-out. It was pure genius of Frieza.

[Grimlock]

Can't really blame Toei for this when the series breathes transformations. Goku is getting another one as we speak. Transformations have taken over the franchise and are what draw attention of the people. That's why Piccolo getting one won't do any harm or if it does, no more than Saiyans getting forms over and over.

What Toei is doing is actually fine and for the better, because if we go solely by Toriyama, we'd just see Saiyans transforming, that would make things worse. So in order to tone down a little bit, it's good that Toei is showing other characters transforming. Even Gohan when he transforms into Ultimate is a "relief".

[Timetraveller]

That's probably the biggest problem I have with Super. Their new forms are pretty much recolors of old forms and they are ruining the old forms but making them ridiculously easy to achieve.

It's like a bad informercial. "You just do this and it works! It's THAT easy! What are you waiting for?"

Not really the point of my complaint, but I guess that is an issue too

Not the same complaint but we both agree that Super should stop bringing back old transformations. It's tarnishing their legacies.

[Arugela]

I think frieza was just using his bulk form to demonstrate to frost to make him use his stamina. Not sure why though.

He did it to deprive Frost of his dexterity and ensure his ring-out. It was pure genius of Frieza.

I'm starting to think he did it to communicate something to gohan... General strategy or about jiren or an opponent. Everyone in the U7 have been acting odd like that. I think it's their communication structure or part of carrying out their strategy. I don't see how frieza needed to worry about frosts abilities. I think he could have taken him down regardless. He sounded like he was teaching gohan to make an enemy use his stamina. Either to teach strategy subtly, as goku and others have been doing in various ways, or communicate something to him or both. Vegeta seemed like he was doing this to roshi(Maybe to not let him become hostage later or an obstacle or to maybe observe from the stand and possibly telepathically communicate to goku if that is possible.). Like it was a predetermined bow out that was also meant to look realistic as to not give the enemy any idea they are doing it. Something we the audience and the z figthters could pick up on but not enemies. Also the reason for frieza to continue his betrayal appearance. Unless he is also playing an even longer game using that to hide it and layering it heavily.

I don't think there was a real strategic need for any of it in taking down frost. I think he was either helping reteach gohan to make an enemy use his stamina. Or communicating strategy. The question, again, I think, is was it for general teaching, jiren, or both... I don't think anything they are doing is incidental. And I think these are cues to the audience.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I think frieza was just using his bulk form to demonstrate to frost to make him use his stamina. Not sure why though.

He did it to deprive Frost of his dexterity and ensure his ring-out. It was pure genius of Frieza.

I'm starting to think he did it to communicate something to gohan... General strategy or about jiren or an opponent. Everyone in the U7 have been acting odd like that. I think it's their communication structure or part of carrying out their strategy. I don't see how frieza needed to worry about frosts abilities. I think he could have taken him down regardless. He sounded like he was teaching gohan to make an enemy use his stamina. Either to teach strategy subtly, as goku and others have been doing in various ways, or communicate something to him or both. Vegeta seemed like he was doing this to roshi(Maybe to not let him become hostage later or an obstacle or to maybe observe from the stand and possibly telepathically communicate to goku if that is possible.). Like it was a predetermined bow out that was also meant to look realistic as to not give the enemy any idea they are doing it. Something we the audience and the z figthters could pick up on but not enemies. Also the reason for frieza to continue his betrayal appearance. Unless he is also playing an even longer game using that to hide it and layering it heavily.

I don't think there was a real strategic need for any of it in taking down frost. I think he was either helping reteach gohan to make an enemy use his stamina. Or communicating strategy. The question, again, I think, is was it for general teaching, jiren, or both... I don't think anything they are doing is incidental. And I think these are cues to the audience.

Well, Freeza DID point out that he was letting Gohan deplete his stamina by standing aside as the Saiyan was fighting Jimeze. Could be an unstated lesson in that.

As for the OP, a few minor niggling issues.

First, FPSS didn't "replace" SS Grade 3, it simply superseded it as the superior form for battle because it was energy-efficient and balanced despite not being as straight-forward strong. As well, as demonstrated with Cell, many fighters can simply buff up their power like SS Grade 3 and end up as muscular meatheads that can hardly move by this franchise's standards. Finally, there was never any indication that SSB simply erases regular SS from existence, merely that when a Saiyan has the power of SSG as a SS, they become a SSB.

[sintzu]

Transformations are a major selling point for the franchise (contrary to what many believe, merchandise comes first now) so of course they and Bandai want to keep them around. It's also the reason they've been introducing so many this fast.

What Toei is doing is actually fine and for the better, because if we go solely by Toriyama, we'd just see Saiyans transforming.

According to Toriyama back in 2013, Goku was just going to use Ssj1 moving forward so you can thank Bandai and Toei for that not happening.

[Cursemark505]

First bringing back the regular SSj forms for Goku and Vegeta, even though they were supposed to be replaced by SSj Blue, then making Future Trunks go grade 3, even though FPSSj was supposed to replace it entirely, and now Freeza using the bulky form again, even though he was heavily implied to have mastered his body to put out 100% without needing to get bulky.

I'm beginning to think that Toei is indeed more interested in potential merchandise and video game options than in logic and consistency.

1) Blue was never supposed to replace the regular ssj forms.

2) Trunks used grade 3 for strategy. You're being completely ridiculous with this one.

3) Did you even watch the episode? Freeza did that transformation to demonstrate it to Frost. It was also never confirmed that he could use 100 % of his power without needing to do that. You just made that up.

Stop accepting your own assumptions and headcanon as fact then complaining when things don't go according to your imaginary world.

[GodVegetto91]

First bringing back the regular SSj forms for Goku and Vegeta, even though they were supposed to be replaced by SSj Blue, then making Future Trunks go grade 3, even though FPSSj was supposed to replace it entirely, and now Freeza using the bulky form again, even though he was heavily implied to have mastered his body to put out 100% without needing to get bulky.

I'm beginning to think that Toei is indeed more interested in potential merchandise and video game options than in logic and consistency.

This entire post is absolutely true, from beginning to end. Especially the part about them reusing Super Saiyan 1 again during the U6 Tournament Arc. Even though SSJ Blue should have replaced it. It looks like you read my mind.

[HeroR]

First bringing back the regular SSj forms for Goku and Vegeta, even though they were supposed to be replaced by SSj Blue, then making Future Trunks go grade 3, even though FPSSj was supposed to replace it entirely, and now Freeza using the bulky form again, even though he was heavily implied to have mastered his body to put out 100% without needing to get bulky.

I'm beginning to think that Toei is indeed more interested in potential merchandise and video game options than in logic and consistency.

This entire post is absolutely true, from beginning to end. Especially the part about them reusing Super Saiyan 1 again during the U6 Tournament Arc. Even though SSJ Blue should have replaced it. It looks like you read my mind.

Except, as others have pointed out, it was never once said that Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan replaced Super Saiyan. That was just what fans assumed because Goku didn't used Super Saiyan in Resurrection 'F' and base form Goku was so strong. Fans were wrong, it happens. Being mad because your theories didn't work out is just bitter.

[Timetraveller]

First bringing back the regular SSj forms for Goku and Vegeta, even though they were supposed to be replaced by SSj Blue, then making Future Trunks go grade 3, even though FPSSj was supposed to replace it entirely, and now Freeza using the bulky form again, even though he was heavily implied to have mastered his body to put out 100% without needing to get bulky.

I'm beginning to think that Toei is indeed more interested in potential merchandise and video game options than in logic and consistency.

This entire post is absolutely true, from beginning to end. Especially the part about them reusing Super Saiyan 1 again during the U6 Tournament Arc. Even though SSJ Blue should have replaced it. It looks like you read my mind.

Except, as others have pointed out, it was never once said that Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan replaced Super Saiyan. That was just what fans assumed because Goku didn't used Super Saiyan in Resurrection 'F' and base form Goku was so strong. Fans were wrong, it happens. Being mad because your theories didn't work out is just bitter.

Isn't SSB just Super Saiyan with god ki? In other words, it gives you a massive power up far stronger than SSJ3 without any of the drawbacks of SSJ3. That's what the whole ki control thing was, right? The fans don't really know what SSG and SSB are and the writers probably don't either. There's a whole thread about it here.

[HeroR]

Isn't SSB just Super Saiyan with god ki? In other words, it gives you a massive power up far stronger than SSJ3 without any of the drawbacks of SSJ3. That's what the whole ki control thing was, right? The fans don't really know what SSG and SSB are and the writers probably don't either. There's a whole thread about it here.

Yes, Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is Super Saiyan with god ki. Ki control being related to god ki is a popular theory, but it hasn't been confirmed to be the source of god ki.

I am sure the writers have more clue what god ki is to the viewer, but they chose not to tell us. Much like what Whis was wasn't stated until fairly recently.

[fadeddreams5]

Sometimes it feels like I'm watching a commercial.

>*Frieza goes Golden*
>Frost: Amazing!

>*Frieza does something evil*
>Somebody: "That dastardly Frieza sure is as evil as ever!"

>*Goku transforms into anything*
> Caulifa: "Amazing. Can you teach me?"

>*Jiren stands silently*
> Somebody: "Jiren must be super strong. I wonder how strong Jiren is. Jiren sure is mysterious."

Everything is so on the nose, as though they think their audience is brain damaged. Transformations being shoe-horned everywhere is a part of this.

[GodVegetto91]

First bringing back the regular SSj forms for Goku and Vegeta, even though they were supposed to be replaced by SSj Blue, then making Future Trunks go grade 3, even though FPSSj was supposed to replace it entirely, and now Freeza using the bulky form again, even though he was heavily implied to have mastered his body to put out 100% without needing to get bulky.

I'm beginning to think that Toei is indeed more interested in potential merchandise and video game options than in logic and consistency.

This entire post is absolutely true, from beginning to end. Especially the part about them reusing Super Saiyan 1 again during the U6 Tournament Arc. Even though SSJ Blue should have replaced it. It looks like you read my mind.

Except, as others have pointed out, it was never once said that Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan replaced Super Saiyan. That was just what fans assumed because Goku didn't used Super Saiyan in Resurrection 'F' and base form Goku was so strong. Fans were wrong, it happens. Being mad because your theories didn't work out is just bitter.

I admit, i was very very upset and highly dissapointed when that first happened, along with Goku and Vegeta changing their clothes back to normal and their powers seemingly being retconned where they had trouble fighting against the likes of Cabba, Magetta and Frost. (Because of the whole Saiyan Beyond God Theory i seemed to believe back than because of the RoF arc). However, after all of that happened, something changed in me, i suddenly started taking Dragon Ball Super not so seriously anymore, with all of it's retcons and powerscaling issues, and now mainly focus on the good side of Super, while completely ignoring the bad. I guess you could say, my mind is much more at peace now because of this sudden change of mindset.

[HeroR]

I admit, i was very very upset and highly dissapointed when that first happened, along with Goku and Vegeta changing their clothes back to normal and their powers seemingly being retconned where they had trouble fighting against the likes of Cabba, Magetta and Frost. (Because of the whole Saiyan Beyond God Theory i seemed to believe back than because of the RoF arc). However, after all of that happened, something changed in me, i suddenly started taking Dragon Ball Super not so seriously anymore, with all of it's retcons and powerscaling issues, and now mainly focus on the good side of Super, while completely ignoring the bad. I guess you could say, my mind is much more at peace now because of this sudden change of mindset.

Them having trouble against Cabba, Magetta, and Frost isn't a retcon. They're that strong. Even the Saiyan Beyond God never held water since it was more explicit in the retelling of Resurrection 'F' that Goku and Vegeta's base form had no god ki. It was just extremely powerful, more so since Vegeta didn't even used the god ritual. He just trained for it.

Seriously, the word 'retcon' lost all meaning since now fans used it to say, 'my theory/headcanon wasn't right'.

[Saturnine]

First bringing back the regular SSj forms for Goku and Vegeta, even though they were supposed to be replaced by SSj Blue, then making Future Trunks go grade 3, even though FPSSj was supposed to replace it entirely, and now Freeza using the bulky form again, even though he was heavily implied to have mastered his body to put out 100% without needing to get bulky.

I'm beginning to think that Toei is indeed more interested in potential merchandise and video game options than in logic and consistency.

1) Blue was never supposed to replace the regular ssj forms.

2) Trunks used grade 3 for strategy. You're being completely ridiculous with this one.

3) Did you even watch the episode? Freeza did that transformation to demonstrate it to Frost. It was also never confirmed that he could use 100 % of his power without needing to do that. You just made that up.

Stop accepting your own assumptions and headcanon as fact then complaining when things don't go according to your imaginary world.

Well, you're wrong on all three counts not much more to say, really

I admit, i was very very upset and highly dissapointed when that first happened, along with Goku and Vegeta changing their clothes back to normal and their powers seemingly being retconned where they had trouble fighting against the likes of Cabba, Magetta and Frost. (Because of the whole Saiyan Beyond God Theory i seemed to believe back than because of the RoF arc). However, after all of that happened, something changed in me, i suddenly started taking Dragon Ball Super not so seriously anymore, with all of it's retcons and powerscaling issues, and now mainly focus on the good side of Super, while completely ignoring the bad. I guess you could say, my mind is much more at peace now because of this sudden change of mindset.

Them having trouble against Cabba, Magetta, and Frost isn't a retcon. They're that strong. Even the Saiyan Beyond God never held water since it was more explicit in the retelling of Resurrection 'F' that Goku and Vegeta's base form had no god ki. It was just extremely powerful, more so since Vegeta didn't even used the god ritual. He just trained for it.

Seriously, the word 'retcon' lost all meaning since now fans used it to say, 'my theory/headcanon wasn't right'.

There's a huge difference between base Vegeta kicking SSj3 Gotenks' ass and Goku two arcs later needing SSj2 to fight Ultimate Gohan. Base powers have clearly been rectonned from previously established SSj God level. Now that SSj God itself has been brought back, there is not much of a room to argue otherwise, really.

[GodVegetto91]

I admit, i was very very upset and highly dissapointed when that first happened, along with Goku and Vegeta changing their clothes back to normal and their powers seemingly being retconned where they had trouble fighting against the likes of Cabba, Magetta and Frost. (Because of the whole Saiyan Beyond God Theory i seemed to believe back than because of the RoF arc). However, after all of that happened, something changed in me, i suddenly started taking Dragon Ball Super not so seriously anymore, with all of it's retcons and powerscaling issues, and now mainly focus on the good side of Super, while completely ignoring the bad. I guess you could say, my mind is much more at peace now because of this sudden change of mindset.

Them having trouble against Cabba, Magetta, and Frost isn't a retcon. They're that strong. Even the Saiyan Beyond God never held water since it was more explicit in the retelling of Resurrection 'F' that Goku and Vegeta's base form had no god ki. It was just extremely powerful, more so since Vegeta didn't even used the god ritual. He just trained for it.

Seriously, the word 'retcon' lost all meaning since now fans used it to say, 'my theory/headcanon wasn't right'.

Right.. Cabba was THAT strong where he could fight on par with a Godly powered Base Vegeta, without even being able to turn into a mere SSJ1. That's just bad writing.