Why the Spirit Bomb?

[GodKaio-Ken]

Why not use the Genki Dama? If Kaioken times twenty ain't doing the trick, then you're going to have to start pulling out all your aces in the hole in the hope to win.

I think the main issue people have is where does the energy come from? If its off stage isn't that cheating? Maybe Roshi and the Mafuba were a set up to show Zeno will let things slide...but how would you even gather it out of the arena?

I'm personally in wait and see mode. It could make sense or be another Genki Dama sword.

Side note...my phone changes Genki Dama to "Gecko Dems"

I'm thinking he'll get the energy from Whis, Kaioshin, Beerus and the rest of team Universe 7.

Possibly. I just think its odd that it would be enough to hurt Jiren with that few people? Maybe? Idk I'm no Genki Dama expert

My theory was maybe when Jiren releases his Ki everyone panics. Maybe they see Goku as the lesser of two threats and decide to donate energy as well?

[Lord Frieza]

I think the main issue people have is where does the energy come from? If its off stage isn't that cheating? Maybe Roshi and the Mafuba were a set up to show Zeno will let things slide...but how would you even gather it out of the arena?

I'm personally in wait and see mode. It could make sense or be another Genki Dama sword.

Side note...my phone changes Genki Dama to "Gecko Dems"

I'm thinking he'll get the energy from Whis, Kaioshin, Beerus and the rest of team Universe 7.

Possibly. I just think its odd that it would be enough to hurt Jiren with that few people? Maybe? Idk I'm no Genki Dama expert

My theory was maybe when Jiren releases his Ki everyone panics. Maybe they see Goku as the lesser of two threats and decide to donate energy as well?

Well Beerus and Whis alone weild power that makes the collective ki of earth look like nothing. If they give up their power freely that's a pretty huge chunk of energy and if it's back up by him team could be pretty powerful.

If he can draw power from the other gigantic sources around the arena, even if the other GoD do not give their power willingly nothing stopes Goku from passively drawing upon their power, which would be substantial on its own.

As for people calling CHEATING!

Nothing in the rules says he can't do it. It's just no killing, no weapons and no healing items. That's all.

Items like the bottles Roshi used were not band by the rules plus Zen-Oh allowed it when it's validadty was questioned. While attacks from observers is prohibited, nowhere dose it say that you are not allowed to draw on the energy of people present.

Edit: speaking of which.....maybe that's why Belmod is talking to Jiren. Maybe Belmod is channeling or going to channel power to Jiren!

[Simere]

I'm not sure Toppo could assume the role of Hakaishin with everything that it entails. If the Pride Troopers were true arbiters of justice then they wouldn't be associating with an entity who arbitrarily destroys worlds and kills entire species purely for whims. The Z-Warriors don't have any recourse on the matter but the Pride Troopers might, or at the very least they could stop associating with Belmod.

Well, I don't believe them when they talk about justice. Who could? Look how quick Toppo was to drop it. That aside, what appears arbitrary and whimsical to us might be otherwise from the perception of gods. And on that note, don't forget Toppo indicated submissiveness to them back in the Zen Exhibition with his "you disrespect the gods" line. You spoke of "higher" moral standards earlier; it's possible Toppo adheres to the "will of the gods" standard.

[precita]

How is Goku even going to form the Spirit Bomb without being attacked by other fighters? Every other time he had to gather energy it took him quite a while before he could launch the attack. Judging by the preview he forms the whole attack in less than half an episode? WTF?

[Lionel]

I'm not sure Toppo could assume the role of Hakaishin with everything that it entails. If the Pride Troopers were true arbiters of justice then they wouldn't be associating with an entity who arbitrarily destroys worlds and kills entire species purely for whims. The Z-Warriors don't have any recourse on the matter but the Pride Troopers might, or at the very least they could stop associating with Belmod.

Well, I don't believe them when they talk about justice. Who could? Look how quick Toppo was to drop it. That aside, what appears arbitrary and whimsical to us might be otherwise from the perception of gods. And on that note, don't forget Toppo indicated submissiveness to them back in the Zen Exhibition with his "you disrespect the gods" line. You spoke of "higher" moral standards earlier; it's possible Toppo adheres to the "will of the gods" standard.

In which case both he and potentially his associates are hypocrites. For them to espouse a moral high ground only for their actions to contradict that notion by turning a blind eye to the haphazard slaughter of people sounds egregious enough to warrant anything close to the idea of pure"null". If that were to pan out, Jiren repelling the Spirit Bomb like Gohan accomplished should not be possible.

[Ki Breaker]

How is Goku even going to form the Spirit Bomb without being attacked by other fighters? Every other time he had to gather energy it took him quite a while before he could launch the attack. Judging by the preview he forms the whole attack in less than half an episode? WTF?

I fully expect it to be a Trunks ikari sword of magic element..
I don't see any reason for it to happen as it's being implied..

[GodKaio-Ken]

I'm thinking he'll get the energy from Whis, Kaioshin, Beerus and the rest of team Universe 7.

Possibly. I just think its odd that it would be enough to hurt Jiren with that few people? Maybe? Idk I'm no Genki Dama expert

My theory was maybe when Jiren releases his Ki everyone panics. Maybe they see Goku as the lesser of two threats and decide to donate energy as well?

Well Beerus and Whis alone weild power that makes the collective ki of earth look like nothing. If they give up their power freely that's a pretty huge chunk of energy and if it's back up by him team could be pretty powerful.

If he can draw power from the other gigantic sources around the arena, even if the other GoD do not give their power willingly nothing stopes Goku from passively drawing upon their power, which would be substantial on its own.

As for people calling CHEATING!

Nothing in the rules says he can't do it. It's just no killing, no weapons and no healing items. That's all.

Items like the bottles Roshi used were not band by the rules plus Zen-Oh allowed it when it's validadty was questioned. While attacks from observers is prohibited, nowhere dose it say that you are not allowed to draw on the energy of people present.

Edit: speaking of which.....maybe that's why Belmod is talking to Jiren. Maybe Belmod is channeling or going to channel power to Jiren!

The Genki-Dama isnt fighting energy though the way I understand it. In the original series its never shown that the power of a person impacts the power of the energy gathered.

Think about it....Ultimate Gohan was stronger than Kid Buu. In that case youd only need his energy...but that's not what happens.

Granted Super takes liberties by stretching rules of things we always thought were a certain way but never concrete so you could be 100% right.

[Lord Frieza]

The Genki-Dama isnt fighting energy though the way I understand it. In the original series its never shown that the power of a person impacts the power of the energy gathered.

Think about it....Ultimate Gohan was stronger than Kid Buu. In that case youd only need his energy...but that's not what happens.

Granted Super takes liberties by stretching rules of things we always thought were a certain way but never concrete so you could be 100% right.

That's right...

Maybe your right and they will change that or.....

Frieza said that the ki of gods is very "pure", maybe due to this genki absorbed from them is more powerful?

We'll have to see.

[GodVegetto91]

SSJ Blue Kaioken X20 throwing a Spirit Bomb on top of it, is literally EVERYTHING Goku has right now. It's his Ultimate Trump Card.
And when you're up against an opponent like Jiren who's literally whole dimensions above anything SSJ Blue Goku can hope to accomplish, it's only logical that Goku would think to do something like this.

I see no contradiction here.

[TheMikado]

1) we have no idea how much stronger Jiren is. I guess we will find out shortly.

2) SSBxKKx20?!?!?!? How is the manga going to handle this when it doesn’t even have SSBxKK. Is Toei just saying F-it we will do whatever we want?

3) How much time is left in the tournament? How’s Goku getting the time to do this?

4) where the energy coming from? I hope they explain

5) how does Goku know it won’t work on Jiren, hopefully he gives some indication to Goku that he’s less than pure of heart other than an intimidating stare, otherwise how could he possibly know if he would have the ability to deflect it or not?

This seems like a huge freaking gamble considering everything we know of the technique and we know it’s not suitable for tournament style fighting let alone battle royal style where he could be hit at anytime by anyone, and already has...

Hopefully it’s well written and explained.

[Kataphrut]

Spirit Bomb has always been Goku's last resort desperation move. The only thing that slightly concerns me is that he apparently goes into it immediately. Like in the space of 1-2 episodes fighting this guy, he goes from Blue to Kaioken to x20 to "oh shit." Come on, Goku's dragged out fights way longer than that, even against guys eclipsing him more than Jiren does.

I'm personally hopeful about the Spirit Bomb development, because Goku always uses that when he's realised stakes are high enough to throw away his obsession with fighting fair and one-on-one. Hopefully this will be the moment where he realises people will die if he can't win this tournament and he needs to stop treating it like a game.

As for where he gets the energy, it's not hard to imagine him getting it from the fighters in the ring. There's no life to draw from, but we've seen in the past that a Spirit Bomb gathered just from powerful fighters still has a decent heft to it. If I recall correctly, the one he used on Kid Buu was already bigger than the one he used on Vegeta when it was just Gohan, Piccolo, Goten and Trunks' energy. Plus, Goku himself is a lot stronger than he was in those days and probably adds some of his own energy to it.

As for the pure of heart thing, I never took that to mean good or evil specifically. Goku has been able to ride the Nimbus since he was a child, and he was never the most "good" person, especially in those days. He was a coarse, selfish bumpkin but he was also honest, sincere and carefree, which is I think what they mean when they talk about pure of heart. We don't know much about Jiren, but considering his first major action in the show was telling someone to get lost, and he's spent most of his screentime since then being a stoic grump, it's safe to say he probably doesn't cut it as "pure of heart", even if he is technically a good guy.

[superfan2024]

1) we have no idea how much stronger Jiren is. I guess we will find out shortly.

2) SSBxKKx20?!?!?!? How is the manga going to handle this when it doesn’t even have SSBxKK. Is Toei just saying F-it we will do whatever we want?

3) How much time is left in the tournament? How’s Goku getting the time to do this?

4) where the energy coming from? I hope they explain

5) how does Goku know it won’t work on Jiren, hopefully he gives some indication to Goku that he’s less than pure of heart other than an intimidating stare, otherwise how could he possibly know if he would have the ability to deflect it or not?

This seems like a huge freaking gamble considering everything we know of the technique and we know it’s not suitable for tournament style fighting let alone battle royal style where he could be hit at anytime by anyone, and already has...

Hopefully it’s well written and explained.

2. The manga already has it's own equivalent of SSJB Kaioken, it's Perfected Super Saiyan Blue.

3. The Spirit Bomb only takes a few minutes to charge.

[Asura]

I have a really bad feeling about the next episode, especially the spirit bomb aspect of it. It feels like they're blowing their load way too early here. Why is Goku fighting Jiren already when there are still 15 people from other universes that aren't U7, U6, and U11 left in the tournament? Why is Goku already using the spirit bomb on Jiren while there's still a lot of other fights going on in the arena? How can all of this take place in only ~38 minutes or so without feeling incredibly rushed? If Goku was fighting Jiren at SSB there could be a chance that it's just the first "warm up" fight per se before they get split up or something, but given that Goku is going all out with a SSB Kaioken Spirit Bomb, this is for real the main event.

Maybe it's too early to say just by going off the NEP, but I'm getting really bad vibes about all of this happening so soon, and I find it odd that I haven't really seen anyone share these same sentiments at all, unless I'm just not looking hard enough. Plus every time TOEI tries to do writing that's unconventional and strays from the norm they end up fucking it up so there's that too.

But in terms of how Goku would be able to pull this spirit bomb off just by the power of U7's energy alone (minus Freeza more than likely, and I bet Vegeta would be reluctant too) I think that the majority of the fighters left in the tournament from other universes will willingly contribute their energy to Goku and here's why. More than likely they'll all see how insanely powerful Jiren is and they'll know that there's no chance of stopping him by themselves. However, if Goku can take him out, that means that Goku will be the next obstacle in their path, and given how he's going all out with SSB Kaioken AND a spirit bomb, more than likely the other universes will think that Goku will be worn out and tired after defeating Jiren and that'll be their chance to take Goku out. This would be the most logical scenario in my opinion, but whether or not TOEI will do it, well I sort of doubt it.

[Ziegander]

I was saying it before, with Goku and Jiren fighting so early in the tournament, I suspected something was up. Now, at the time I alluded to Gohan's injured left arm from the 107 NEP and it seems that Gohan's left arm isn't really particularly harmed, just bruised, I guess, but we'll see where that goes as the tournament continues. Jiren is seeming to be as out of Goku's league in this tournament as Frieza was out of his league on Namek and he went KKx20 and used a Spirit Bomb on Frieza then too. For Goku to be doing that at the start of the last third or so of the tournament, with so many other combatants still in the game, something we never expected is definitely coming. I'm not sure if it'll be Gohan winning the tournament or Goku being eliminated before the end of the tournament or what, but the typical scenario I think most of us were playing out in our heads of Goku and Jiren being the last two standing, or at least among the last four or five, doesn't look like it's going to happen. Anything can happen of course when Goku gets his new form, and I don't see that happening during the special, but we'll see. The narrative structure of the tournament seems weird, but there's a payoff coming, I'm sure of it. Whether that payoff actually turns out to be worth anything remains to be seen, but they're definitely saving Gohan and the U6 Saiyans and a few other characters for some reason even though in many cases it would have made more sense for them to be eliminated.

[Asura]

Well, I don't believe them when they talk about justice. Who could? Look how quick Toppo was to drop it.

And look how quick he was to pick it back up again literally like, what, the very next episode? These writers sometimes man...

[Jigurashi]

Spirit Bomb has always been Goku's last resort desperation move. The only thing that slightly concerns me is that he apparently goes into it immediately. Like in the space of 1-2 episodes fighting this guy, he goes from Blue to Kaioken to x20 to "oh shit." Come on, Goku's dragged out fights way longer than that, even against guys eclipsing him more than Jiren does.

I'm personally hopeful about the Spirit Bomb development, because Goku always uses that when he's realised stakes are high enough to throw away his obsession with fighting fair and one-on-one. Hopefully this will be the moment where he realises people will die if he can't win this tournament and he needs to stop treating it like a game.

As for where he gets the energy, it's not hard to imagine him getting it from the fighters in the ring. There's no life to draw from, but we've seen in the past that a Spirit Bomb gathered just from powerful fighters still has a decent heft to it. If I recall correctly, the one he used on Kid Buu was already bigger than the one he used on Vegeta when it was just Gohan, Piccolo, Goten and Trunks' energy. Plus, Goku himself is a lot stronger than he was in those days and probably adds some of his own energy to it.

As for the pure of heart thing, I never took that to mean good or evil specifically. Goku has been able to ride the Nimbus since he was a child, and he was never the most "good" person, especially in those days. He was a coarse, selfish bumpkin but he was also honest, sincere and carefree, which is I think what they mean when they talk about pure of heart. We don't know much about Jiren, but considering his first major action in the show was telling someone to get lost, and he's spent most of his screentime since then being a stoic grump, it's safe to say he probably doesn't cut it as "pure of heart", even if he is technically a good guy.

Has he really? I don't think we know if guys have eclipsed him more than Jiren has. If Jiren is forcing Goku to resort to his desperation moves and going all out from this quick, then that would suggest that Goku is incapable of dragging the fight out.

I have a really bad feeling about the next episode, especially the spirit bomb aspect of it. It feels like they're blowing their load way too early here. Why is Goku fighting Jiren already when there are still 15 people from other universes that aren't U7, U6, and U11 left in the tournament? Why is Goku already using the spirit bomb on Jiren while there's still a lot of other fights going on in the arena? How can all of this take place in only ~38 minutes or so without feeling incredibly rushed? If Goku was fighting Jiren at SSB there could be a chance that it's just the first "warm up" fight per se before they get split up or something, but given that Goku is going all out with a SSB Kaioken Spirit Bomb, this is for real the main event.

Maybe it's too early to say just by going off the NEP, but I'm getting really bad vibes about all of this happening so soon, and I find it odd that I haven't really seen anyone share these same sentiments at all, unless I'm just not looking hard enough. Plus every time TOEI tries to do writing that's unconventional and strays from the norm they end up fucking it up so there's that too.

But in terms of how Goku would be able to pull this spirit bomb off just by the power of U7's energy alone (minus Freeza more than likely, and I bet Vegeta would be reluctant too) I think that the majority of the fighters left in the tournament from other universes will willingly contribute their energy to Goku and here's why. More than likely they'll all see how insanely powerful Jiren is and they'll know that there's no chance of stopping him by themselves. However, if Goku can take him out, that means that Goku will be the next obstacle in their path, and given how he's going all out with SSB Kaioken AND a spirit bomb, more than likely the other universes will think that Goku will be worn out and tired after defeating Jiren and that'll be their chance to take Goku out. This would be the most logical scenario in my opinion, but whether or not TOEI will do it, well I sort of doubt it.

Could be any number of reasons they're fighting this early:

1. Goku will get eliminated by Jiren
2. This isn't the final fight at all of the tournament
3. They'll have their first fight in the special, and have another fight later on in the tournament.

These just seem like the likeliest scenarios to me.

[UpFromTheSkies]

Maybe he's planning to do something with the genki dama similar to what Trunks did ? The new transformation could be what happens when he absorbs the genki dama into himself. If he combines the genki dama energy with kaioken that would be interesting, if it happens I hope Kaio-sama makes an appearance

[TheOne]

I'm surprised people still think the "pure heart" thing holds true.

Toei has proven that they don't care what rules were established in Z. They're going to do their own thing. My favorite being turning Trunks hair blue and trying to play it off as if we didn't notice. Even if Blue was the original color, it made absolutely no sense to change it that way when his hair has been purple for the last 20 plus years.

I definitely agree that the Spirit Bomb is such a lame move on their part. I'll reserve judgement until the actual episode premieres.

[Kataphrut]

Spirit Bomb has always been Goku's last resort desperation move. The only thing that slightly concerns me is that he apparently goes into it immediately. Like in the space of 1-2 episodes fighting this guy, he goes from Blue to Kaioken to x20 to "oh shit." Come on, Goku's dragged out fights way longer than that, even against guys eclipsing him more than Jiren does.

I'm personally hopeful about the Spirit Bomb development, because Goku always uses that when he's realised stakes are high enough to throw away his obsession with fighting fair and one-on-one. Hopefully this will be the moment where he realises people will die if he can't win this tournament and he needs to stop treating it like a game.

As for where he gets the energy, it's not hard to imagine him getting it from the fighters in the ring. There's no life to draw from, but we've seen in the past that a Spirit Bomb gathered just from powerful fighters still has a decent heft to it. If I recall correctly, the one he used on Kid Buu was already bigger than the one he used on Vegeta when it was just Gohan, Piccolo, Goten and Trunks' energy. Plus, Goku himself is a lot stronger than he was in those days and probably adds some of his own energy to it.

As for the pure of heart thing, I never took that to mean good or evil specifically. Goku has been able to ride the Nimbus since he was a child, and he was never the most "good" person, especially in those days. He was a coarse, selfish bumpkin but he was also honest, sincere and carefree, which is I think what they mean when they talk about pure of heart. We don't know much about Jiren, but considering his first major action in the show was telling someone to get lost, and he's spent most of his screentime since then being a stoic grump, it's safe to say he probably doesn't cut it as "pure of heart", even if he is technically a good guy.

Has he really? I don't think we know if guys have eclipsed him more than Jiren has. If Jiren is forcing Goku to resort to his desperation moves and going all out from this quick, then that would suggest that Goku is incapable of dragging the fight out.

Well, this is clearer a mirror to the Freeza fight on Namek, but it felt like Goku tried way more things against him before the Spirit Bomb than he appears to be doing to Jiren. And apart from Beerus, nobody has eclipsed Goku greater than Freeza initially did. Chalk it up to differences between Z and Super of how fights are paced and constructed I guess. Either that or that was just the trailer cutting to the chase.

[KingKaash]

I agree that using the Spirit Bomb in this ToP is a bit weird. If his own teammates give him ki, isn't that sapping away their own energy which they need to survive longer in the tournament?

The only reason it makes sense is to set up Jiren as a major threat. I wouldn't classify the Spirit Bomb as the ultimate finisher because it did not finish off Frieza but it definitely killed Kid Buu. Basically though it's one of Goku's best moves. So for Jiren to (most likely) survive the Spirit Bomb, much like Frieza did on Namek, puts Jiren on higher threat level. It leads the plot to the point where Goku will need a new transformation to compete with Jiren since the Spirit Bomb didn't work.

What I'm wondering is what the heck are heavyweights like Toppo, Frieza, Hit and Vegeta doing while Goku and Jiren fight each other? I wonder if before Jiren fights Goku, he just goes on a rampage and takes out a bunch of non-contenders.