Why the Spirit Bomb?

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MKCSTEALTH
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Why the Spirit Bomb?

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:34 am

This is a plot point that's got me somewhat scratching my head, and I'm curious to see what the rest of the community thinks.

In the NEP, we see Goku using the Spirit Bomb against Jiren. This has me wondering why, out of all the techniques Goku has, would he resort to using the Spirit Bomb.

1) The Spirit Bomb doesn't hurt any being that is pure of heart. Now we don't necessarily know anything about Jiren, but he doesn't seem to be malicious (this could be proven wrong during the episode). So would it even effect Jiren at all?

2) The Spirit Bomb requires the energy of living things.
Planets, animals, people, etc.
Give how few people their are present at the tournament, the Spirit Bomb wouldn't be nearly strong enough to do much at all. Even though it looks to be a good sized attack in the preview, I still have to wonder. Maybe if it uses the God's energy, it could be impacted somehow. Heck, maybe the Zenos will think it looks cool and donate energy.

So those are some thoughts I have. Let me know your thoughts! I honestly think the Spirit Bomb will be part of if not THE Mcguffin that leads to Gokus new form. So maybe from a plot aspect it'll make sense, but in terms of the lore and how the technique works, I don't see how it will even do much good

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Re: Why the Spirit Bomb?

Post by MaskedRider » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:47 am

Why the hair? Why the pearls? Why anything?

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Re: Why the Spirit Bomb?

Post by sintzu » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:48 am

So far it doesn't make much sense but I guess we'll just have to wait and see how they handle it. I guess Goku can put his own energy into it ? cause I doubt everyone's going to stop to give him theirs.
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Re: Why the Spirit Bomb?

Post by Boo Machine » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:58 am

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think it's ever said that the spirit bomb can't hurt anyone of pure heart. Goku just says that one with a pure heart can deflect the attack.

And even if it doesn't hurt anyone pure of heart, Dragonball has shown that pure of heart doesn't necessarily mean just "good person". Bulma and Krillin aren't bad people yet they couldn't ride the Nimbus cloud which you need a pure heart to ride. So even if Jiren is a good person, it doesn't mean he is what this world would consider pure of heart.

But yeah, I'm curious where he gets the energy from and how it effects anyone who donates.
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Re: Why the Spirit Bomb?

Post by BlueBasilisk » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:02 am

MKCSTEALTH wrote:1) The Spirit Bomb doesn't hurt any being that is pure of heart. Now we don't necessarily know anything about Jiren, but he doesn't seem to be malicious (this could be proven wrong during the episode). So would it even effect Jiren at all?
What Goku said is that Gohan could deflect it because he didn't have evil ki, and even then it knocked him away. If it couldn't hurt pure hearted people Goku wouldn't have needed to hit the dirt before the spirit bomb on Namek went off.

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Re: Why the Spirit Bomb?

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:49 am

My question is more in regards to Goku. He wanted to fight Jiren sloop badly...so like what a minute in he decides "Screw this...SPIRIT BOMB TIME"?

I thought he wanted to fight Jiren head on.
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Re: Why the Spirit Bomb?

Post by emperior » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:01 pm

It seems like "Genki" is extremely powerful. I always though the Genkidama doesn't get its power from people's power but from their soul, which is why the androids wouldn't be able to infinitely power it up. Living things such as plants and planets also seem to be able to give their energy. In Future Trunks' Spirit Sword case, the soul of all living things on Earth seemed to purposefully give their energy to Trunks.

Although I honestly believe that Super is making the Genkidama to be way too strong. Back in Buu arc it took all earthlings energy to make a Genkidama strong enough to vaporize Kid Buu. Maybe the power has also a lot to do with the user's power level? Which would justify why Goku needed all that energy back in Buu arc, and it wasn't enough until he got his ki restored by Porunga and transformed. In next episode's case, Blue + KKx20 would be incredibly powerful paired with a Genkidama. Which would also justify why Trunks was able to slice Merged Zamasu, as he was transformed when he received the energy. We also have to remember back on Namek Goku was able to form a massive Genkidama from planets' energy alone.
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Re: Why the Spirit Bomb?

Post by MrBlackFox » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:04 pm

GodKaio-Ken wrote:My question is more in regards to Goku. He wanted to fight Jiren sloop badly...so like what a minute in he decides "Screw this...SPIRIT BOMB TIME"?

I thought he wanted to fight Jiren head on.
Altough Jiren gave glimpses of his enormous potential, he still never released his Ki, will do it in the next episode, so Goku is probably confident in being able to defeat him with a big effort, poor guy doesn't know what expects him lol

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Re: Why the Spirit Bomb?

Post by MrBlackFox » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:07 pm

Also, regarding spirit bomb, I think the whole good guy can't be hit is either false or has been retconned by now, Vegeta was good for example but Goku in Buu Saga risked to kill him, unless they mean that can simply be deflected

Also, for the second point nope, you can make it either with nature energy or your Ki, or with people Ki, Goku in nep preview asks for other people energy but I really doubt they'll give to him aside from his companions and maybe some other he helped in past episodes ( Hit, Kale, Caulifla) but imho he'll put his blue + KK x 20 in it, failing and remaining without energy, then Hit will come to save him

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Re: Why the Spirit Bomb?

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:40 pm

MrBlackFox wrote:
GodKaio-Ken wrote:My question is more in regards to Goku. He wanted to fight Jiren sloop badly...so like what a minute in he decides "Screw this...SPIRIT BOMB TIME"?

I thought he wanted to fight Jiren head on.
Altough Jiren gave glimpses of his enormous potential, he still never released his Ki, will do it in the next episode, so Goku is probably confident in being able to defeat him with a big effort, poor guy doesn't know what expects him lol
True, good point lol

Also it changed "soooo" in my post to "sloop" lol is that even a word phone?
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Re: Why the Spirit Bomb?

Post by Jigurashi » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:01 pm

NEP gives off the impression that Goku uses it while in SSBKK, and who knows? He might be able to gather it quickly now.

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Re: Why the Spirit Bomb?

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:11 pm

It could also be that SSB/Kaio-kenx20 is what Goku uses to further push the Genkidama at Jiren.

We see during the final fight of the original manga that Goku still needs his energy replenished to give the final push on the Genkidama to destroy Pure Buu. Maybe something similar happens here, whereby Goku uses his massive power-up to give his Genkidama a boosted push.

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Re: Why the Spirit Bomb?

Post by Lionel » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:42 pm

Something tells me that Jiren isn't completely pure of heart. Such a condition was originally deemed exceptionally rare with only a select few having untainted thoughts. Despite his ideology and the group he associates with, I doubt Jiren is completely devoid of murky thoughts or actions. Jiren's organisation appears to have a close association with someone who disintegrated a girl just for speaking up against their angelic attendant in the recent manga chapter. Ordinarily that sort of thing might be handwaved as a byproduct of the ningen being unable to oppose the Hakaishin, but given the dogma of the Pride Troopers, I would expect them to adhere to a higher set of moral standards.

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Re: Why the Spirit Bomb?

Post by Cetra » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:45 pm

MKCSTEALTH wrote: 1) The Spirit Bomb doesn't hurt any being that is pure of heart. Now we don't necessarily know anything about Jiren, but he doesn't seem to be malicious (this could be proven wrong during the episode). So would it even effect Jiren at all?

This rumor needs to die. The story never ever said that good people cannot be hurt by the Genkidama.
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Re: Why the Spirit Bomb?

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:00 pm

Why not use the Genki Dama? If Kaioken times twenty ain't doing the trick, then you're going to have to start pulling out all your aces in the hole in the hope to win.

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Re: Why the Spirit Bomb?

Post by Simere » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:05 pm

Lionel wrote:Jiren's organisation appears to have a close association with someone who disintegrated a girl just for speaking up against their angelic attendant in the recent manga chapter.
Do you brandish weapons and threaten to kill people when you speak up?

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Re: Why the Spirit Bomb?

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:06 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:Why not use the Genki Dama? If Kaioken times twenty ain't doing the trick, then you're going to have to start pulling out all your aces in the hole in the hope to win.
I think the main issue people have is where does the energy come from? If its off stage isn't that cheating? Maybe Roshi and the Mafuba were a set up to show Zeno will let things slide...but how would you even gather it out of the arena?

I'm personally in wait and see mode. It could make sense or be another Genki Dama sword.

Side note...my phone changes Genki Dama to "Gecko Dems"
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Re: Why the Spirit Bomb?

Post by Lord Frieza » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:14 pm

1) it's Goku's most powerful attack inspite of its low kill count.

2) while the attack be reflected by pure hearted beings, nothing says it cannot hurt them. The fact everyone ducked for cover on Namek is pretty good evidence that when that thing blows everyone's in danger.

3) barring so unforeseen factor, even if Jiren is pure, he knows nothing about how it works.

4) with 10 of the strongest warriors from 8 universes, 12 GoD and 12 angels, not counting even stronger deities, being present, Goku can easily make a very powerful Genki Dama in a short space of time.

5) Going ssbkkx20 means he is throwing it as fast and as hard as he possibly can.

Sounds like a pretty good gamble to me. The only downside is that Ma Boee Jiren is such a beast all those factors mean nothing in the face of his power.

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Re: Why the Spirit Bomb?

Post by Lionel » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:24 pm

Simere wrote:
Lionel wrote:Jiren's organisation appears to have a close association with someone who disintegrated a girl just for speaking up against their angelic attendant in the recent manga chapter.
Do you brandish weapons and threaten to kill people when you speak up?
She was poised for execution anyway when Belmod confessed to his intentions being to destroy the planet. Marcarita described her as being "innocent", which I suppose by Hakaishin standards she may be. Moreover, brandishing a knife doesn't sound quite so bad in relation to what the likes of Ox King and Launch have done or were capable of doing, but do you see anyone killing them and having it go unabated?

I'm not sure Toppo could assume the role of Hakaishin with everything that it entails. If the Pride Troopers were true arbiters of justice then they wouldn't be associating with an entity who arbitrarily destroys worlds and kills entire species purely for whims. The Z-Warriors don't have any recourse on the matter but the Pride Troopers might, or at the very least they could stop associating with Belmod.

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Re: Why the Spirit Bomb?

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:26 pm

GodKaio-Ken wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:Why not use the Genki Dama? If Kaioken times twenty ain't doing the trick, then you're going to have to start pulling out all your aces in the hole in the hope to win.
I think the main issue people have is where does the energy come from? If its off stage isn't that cheating? Maybe Roshi and the Mafuba were a set up to show Zeno will let things slide...but how would you even gather it out of the arena?

I'm personally in wait and see mode. It could make sense or be another Genki Dama sword.

Side note...my phone changes Genki Dama to "Gecko Dems"
I'm thinking he'll get the energy from Whis, Kaioshin, Beerus and the rest of team Universe 7.

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