Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

[Doctor.]

Every time I read "it makes no sense for this new character from this completely different universe with completely different rules, locations and methods of getting stronger to be this strong" I just have to roll my eyes. Seriously? Do you all lack imagination or something?

[TheMikado]

First let me say I 100000000% agree with the ways Toriyama was able to escalate his enemies, even though they increasingly became more and more “cheap” at least it made F-ing SENSE!!! Even Vegeta who as a controlled Oozaru was stronger than any other natural being in the universe short of Frieza and it makes sense why he consisdered himself second to only Frieza when Ginyu existed and it’s because mathematically he technically was.

Anyway as others have said we do not know why Jiren is exceptional. Even Buu really isn’t that strong with the exception of his regeneration abilities and Vegeta would have easily killed him... my point is if Jiren turns out to be some random alien without a backstory or reason for being so darn strong and literally only exists solely as the “strong” guy for Goku to fight, he will literally be the LAZIEST design antagonist both in design, background, personality and just all around awful that there has even been in shonen history. Hopefully he’s a genetic experiment who escaped or the genetic amalgamation of all the creatures of his universe. Something intriguing. I’m holding out hope but honestly it’s not looking good and he could easily go down as the most bland antagonist in shonen history.

[Doctor.]

First let me say I 100000000% agree with the ways Toriyama was able to escalate his enemies, even though they increasingly became more and more “cheap” at least it made F-ing SENSE!!! Even Vegeta who as a controlled Oozaru was stronger than any other natural being in the universe short of Frieza and it makes sense why he consisdered himself second to only Frieza when Ginyu existed and it’s because mathematically he technically was.

Anyway as others have said we do not know why Jiren is exceptional. Even Buu really isn’t that strong with the exception of his regeneration abilities and Vegeta would have easily killed him... my point is if Jiren turns out to be some random alien without a backstory or reason for being so darn strong and literally only exists solely as the “strong” guy for Goku to fight, he will literally be the LAZIEST design antagonist both in design, background, personality and just all around awful that there has even been in shonen history. Hopefully he’s a genetic experiment who escaped or the genetic amalgamation of all the creatures of his universe. Something intriguing. I’m holding out hope but honestly it’s not looking good and he could easily go down as the most bland antagonist in shonen history.

Jiren doesn't need a reason to be this strong.

He's from a different, new species, with their own powers, physiology and traits.
He's from a different, new universe, with no connections to ours (or universe 6). This universe has different locations. Different enemies and characters. Different dangers. Different lore. Different methods of getting stronger. Different everything.

Nobody asked why every alien was so much stronger than the humans because there was no need to. Look at Freeza; OP says "Someone needs to be the strongest, right?" so why can't that explanation apply to Jiren? Some characters don't need backstories. Jiren doesn't need one to explain why he's so strong; he may need one to make him interesting, because he's as interesting as a brick, but that's something else entirely.

[Jigurashi]

As other have pointed out, there is not know enough about Jiren's background to determine why he's so strong. But even in that case, do we need a backstory? Can't we just have a character in Dragon Ball who is very strong and doesn't need to rely on a gimmick for that to be the case? This seems like another case of making a mountain out a molehill.

We don't really need a backstory you're right about that. Most characters in DB don't usually ge them.

[Kinokima]

The funny thing is we already know Jiren isn't the strongest out there. He may be the strongest at this tournament. But we know there are stronger Universes that don't even have to participate. It would stand to reason that in those Universes there are characters even stronger than Jiren.

Also we don't know much about Jiren YET except he is one of the Pride Troopers so I assume he's actually a good guy. But as he's barely had any focus yet I don't think we can fault the series for not giving him a proper back story yet. I am assuming we will learn more about Jiren as this arc goes on. If not a back story at least more about his character. I feel it is bit premature to criticize.

[Lord Beerus]

Every time I read "it makes no sense for this new character from this completely different universe with completely different rules, locations and methods of getting stronger to be this strong" I just have to roll my eyes. Seriously? Do you all lack imagination or something?

I think it's more of case of fans just want to be spoon-fed every detail. Even if some of the detail they want are inconsequential.

[TheMikado]

First let me say I 100000000% agree with the ways Toriyama was able to escalate his enemies, even though they increasingly became more and more “cheap” at least it made F-ing SENSE!!! Even Vegeta who as a controlled Oozaru was stronger than any other natural being in the universe short of Frieza and it makes sense why he consisdered himself second to only Frieza when Ginyu existed and it’s because mathematically he technically was.

Anyway as others have said we do not know why Jiren is exceptional. Even Buu really isn’t that strong with the exception of his regeneration abilities and Vegeta would have easily killed him... my point is if Jiren turns out to be some random alien without a backstory or reason for being so darn strong and literally only exists solely as the “strong” guy for Goku to fight, he will literally be the LAZIEST design antagonist both in design, background, personality and just all around awful that there has even been in shonen history. Hopefully he’s a genetic experiment who escaped or the genetic amalgamation of all the creatures of his universe. Something intriguing. I’m holding out hope but honestly it’s not looking good and he could easily go down as the most bland antagonist in shonen history.

Jiren doesn't need a reason to be this strong.

He's from a different, new species, with their own powers, physiology and traits.
He's from a different, new universe, with no connections to ours (or universe 6). This universe has different locations. Different enemies and characters. Different dangers. Different lore. Different methods of getting stronger. Different everything.

Nobody asked why every alien was so much stronger than the humans because there was no need to. Look at Freeza; OP says "Someone needs to be the strongest, right?" so why can't that explanation apply to Jiren? Some characters don't need backstories. Jiren doesn't need one to explain why he's so strong; he may need one to make him interesting, because he's as interesting as a brick, but that's something else entirely.

I honestly don’t have a problem with him being this strong and it’s the least of his problems. The problem is his strength makes him inheritly exceptional when nothing else about him is. He doesn’t seem to possess any exceptional motivation, his physical appearance doesn’t seem exceptional in anyway. His personality doesn’t seem to show someone striving obsessively with power goals on mine. He can be strong but the sheer degree to which he’s exceptional is what the issue is. The magnitude of it seems to imply there would have to be something beyond it the surface of literally just being born incredibly strong from a race which we have no clue their strengths, but would think he we be an exception even among them. Jiren doesn’t feel right, he doesn’t feel like Hit at all for example. To be honest he doesn’t even feel like a Toriyama creation. Come to think of it do we have a Toriyama design from him?

[Lord Frieza]

A random alien......

Is that not what Goku is? In reality Goku has not right to be as powerful as he is, he's just another lifeform in the universe and when he was born he's was considered a weakling. Yet here we are all these years later and Goku is powerful enough to fight with the destroyer gods.

While Jiren's backstory is unknown to us as of right now, why is that Goku comeing this far in his own universe is accpetable yet its not for someone else? Not all the universes provide the right enviorment to produce warriors of Goku's level which is why there are different levels of warrior in the tournmant. However warriors like Toppo, Hit and Bergamo show that under the right circomstances such warriors can appear else were. But universes are complex and diverse things, with countless factors affecting all who live in them.

As we have seen some universes do not currently have the right inviorment to generate a warrior like Goku, but logic also dictates that other universes can produce warriors that are more powerful then him. In this case factors and events within Universe 11 allowed one of its mortals not only to reach Goku's level but also surpass him.

Edit : to show it visually......Edited again

1. Strongest biological being
2. Unnaturally powerful androids
3. Ancient magical and indestructible force of nature
4. The God of Destruction.
5: The legendery assasin from a twin universe.
6: An insain God of Creation.
7: A superior warrior from an alternate universe.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Your entire argument loses ALL steam as soon as you put this explanation for Freeza "i mean, at least someone has to be right?". Jiren is super strong because in your own words "at least someone has too be".

Dragon Ball is not deep. There does not be some deep reasoning behind things it's always been like that. Jiren is strong because Jiren is strong.

[GodVegetto91]

First let me say I 100000000% agree with the ways Toriyama was able to escalate his enemies, even though they increasingly became more and more “cheap” at least it made F-ing SENSE!!! Even Vegeta who as a controlled Oozaru was stronger than any other natural being in the universe short of Frieza and it makes sense why he consisdered himself second to only Frieza when Ginyu existed and it’s because mathematically he technically was.

Anyway as others have said we do not know why Jiren is exceptional. Even Buu really isn’t that strong with the exception of his regeneration abilities and Vegeta would have easily killed him... my point is if Jiren turns out to be some random alien without a backstory or reason for being so darn strong and literally only exists solely as the “strong” guy for Goku to fight, he will literally be the LAZIEST design antagonist both in design, background, personality and just all around awful that there has even been in shonen history. Hopefully he’s a genetic experiment who escaped or the genetic amalgamation of all the creatures of his universe. Something intriguing. I’m holding out hope but honestly it’s not looking good and he could easily go down as the most bland antagonist in shonen history.

Jiren doesn't need a reason to be this strong.

He's from a different, new species, with their own powers, physiology and traits.
He's from a different, new universe, with no connections to ours (or universe 6). This universe has different locations. Different enemies and characters. Different dangers. Different lore. Different methods of getting stronger. Different everything.

Nobody asked why every alien was so much stronger than the humans because there was no need to. Look at Freeza; OP says "Someone needs to be the strongest, right?" so why can't that explanation apply to Jiren? Some characters don't need backstories. Jiren doesn't need one to explain why he's so strong; he may need one to make him interesting, because he's as interesting as a brick, but that's something else entirely.

Freeza's case is different. For starters, Freeza isn't on Jiren's INSANELY high level. He was only SSJ1 first appearance level. And that's totally fine for the strongest biological being in the universe. Also, Freeza had some kind of backstory. He was hyped up months before to be a mutant of the already most powerful race of the universe. And while that may not be considered much, it's still reasonable for him to be on the level of the legendary super saiyan (other most powerful warrior in the universe).

But Jiren.. not only did he surpass that as a random biological alien, he is above unnaturally powerful androids, an ancient magical force of nature, and now perhaps even above a God of Destruction!
And before you say we may get another explanation as to how Jiren is that powerful..
Well, either they don't explain it at all. (This is what Toei tends to do), or the explanation will make no sense at all. Calling it.

[Gafonso6]

Ok I usually don't get in this type of discussion but now I really need to aks something.
When a new character appears and we know nothing about said character and he's realy strong, in a way that we've never seen. What is the problem? A new character that we know nothing about can be as strong as the plot wants it to be because it's a new character that we know nothing about!

[Doctor.]

Freeza's case is different. For starters, Freeza isn't on Jiren's INSANELY high level. He was only SSJ1 first appearance level. And that's totally fine for the strongest biological being in the universe.

Freeza was comparatively much stronger than Jiren is. Freeza's maximum powerlevel was 120 million. Goku, when the Freeza arc started, was only at 8 thousand. This means that Toriyama introduced a character 150,000 times stronger than Goku as Goku's next opponent. Jiren, meanwhile, is strong. But, as far as we know, he's "only" stronger than Kaioken x20, so he's at the very least 20 times stronger. 20+ to 150,000 is a huge difference. Freeza was a much bigger pill to swallow.

Also, Freeza had some kind of backstory. He was hyped up months before to be a mutant of the already most powerful race of the universe. And while that may not be considered much, it's still reasonable for him to be on the level of the legendary super saiyan (other most powerful warrior in the universe).

And Jiren has been hyped up for months as the strongest character of universe 11 and the Pride Troopers, who already have a character (Toppo) who is meant to be the next God of Destruction of the 11th universe. They're both the same, "someone has to be the strongest." In our universe, it was Freeza; in universe 11, it's Jiren.

But Jiren.. not only did he surpass that as a random biological alien, he is above unnaturally powerful androids, an ancient magical force of nature, and now perhaps even above a God of Destruction!

Right. Makes sense. He's from a completely different, random universe and we know nothing about him or his species. Just like Goku is that strong and has his story, Jiren is that strong and has his own story.

And before you say we may get another explanation as to how Jiren is that powerful..
Well, either they don't explain it at all. (This is what Toei tends to do), or the explanation will make no sense at all. Calling it.

And I'm saying they don't even need to explain it because Jiren's backstory is completely unknown to us and if you lack imagination to the point you can't even phantom how he's so strong, then that's your problem and nobody else's.

[HeroR]

Freeza's case is different. For starters, Freeza isn't on Jiren's INSANELY high level. He was only SSJ1 first appearance level. And that's totally fine for the strongest biological being in the universe.

Freeza was comparatively much stronger than Jiren is. Freeza's maximum powerlevel was 120 million. Goku, when the Freeza arc started, was only at 8 thousand. This means that Toriyama introduced a character 150,000 times stronger than Goku as Goku's next opponent. Jiren, meanwhile, is strong. But, as far as we know, he's "only" stronger than Kaioken x20, so he's at the very least 20 times stronger. 20+ to 150,000 is a huge difference. Freeza was a much bigger pill to swallow.

Also, Freeza had some kind of backstory. He was hyped up months before to be a mutant of the already most powerful race of the universe. And while that may not be considered much, it's still reasonable for him to be on the level of the legendary super saiyan (other most powerful warrior in the universe).

And Jiren has been hyped up for months as the strongest character of universe 11 and the Pride Troopers, who already have a character (Toppo) who is meant to be the next God of Destruction of the 11th universe. They're both the same, "someone has to be the strongest." In our universe, it was Freeza; in universe 11, it's Jiren.

But Jiren.. not only did he surpass that as a random biological alien, he is above unnaturally powerful androids, an ancient magical force of nature, and now perhaps even above a God of Destruction!

Right. Makes sense. He's from a completely different, random universe and we know nothing about him or his species. Just like Goku is that strong and has his story, Jiren is that strong and has his own story.

And before you say we may get another explanation as to how Jiren is that powerful..
Well, either they don't explain it at all. (This is what Toei tends to do), or the explanation will make no sense at all. Calling it.

And I'm saying they don't even need to explain it because Jiren's backstory is completely unknown to us and if you lack imagination to the point you can't even phantom how he's so strong, then that's your problem and nobody else's.

To add to this, Freeza being a mutant wasn’t even reveal until 2013, decades after Freeza’s introduction. So he was the strongest in the universe by a large margin just cause.

In fact, a lot of this post is hindsight since a Super Saiyan was called the strong being that ever existed. So there was no such thing as ‘just Super Saiyan 1 level’ during the Freeza Saga.

[TheMikado]

I don’t think it’s fair to say we don’t need to have a backstory. While it’s technically true that we don’t need it. It’s sure not going to make him compelling or interesting. I’d really like to know the story behind Jiren being so darn strong. Frieza was certainly a much bigger pill to swallow there’s now question about it. However we go there in several steps with Goku. Multiple plot devices, Zenkais, x20 kaioken, SSJ etc. and the enemies always progressed and one upped at the same stepping stone rates.

Nappa
Vegeta
Oozaru Vegeta

Multiple Freeza forms

Androids
Imperfect Cell
Semi perfect Cell
P Cell
SP Cell

Multiple Buus etc.

I have no idea what’s going to happen but it’s looks like we get Goku going from base to SSBxKkx20x SpiritBomb pretty early in the fight. He gets a new form, and then who knows from there. I think I’m every case we weren’t immediately severely outclassed from the get go, even though technically they always were. Maybe it’s a case where we aren’t use to the lack of main enemy power progression we are use to and that’s a fine argument. I think this is a case where we have to see how it plays out before drawing conclusions, but will admit if they don’t add more to Jiren, plus Goku is crazy out classed from the very beginning I can’t see how it would make an interesting or long fight.

[Kanassa]

It’s sure not going to make him compelling or interesting.

But that's not what's being discussed.

[Lord Frieza]

If we are going by tournamants alone...

Jackie has the benefit of being Roshie

Tien was, and to a digree still is, a practaclly unkown person when he first showed up. All we knew is that he's from the Crain School, that he wanted to become an assassin, that Tao was Crane's brother and that he hand a strong bond with chiaotzu. Thats all we ever leanred about his backstory, not counting filler. His character was reveled as the story progressed but his past is still practacley an enigma. Hell aside from the fact Jiren is more stoic and indifferent while Tien was cruel and evil, the two's introductions are almost identical. Both are from a rivel faction of Goku's current affiliation, both are best friends with another member of their team, both dont take to kindley Goku on first introduction and both are tall and bald . The only real difference is that Tien and Goku were roughly equal while Jiren has been built up as superior to Goku.

Piccolo had his fathers arc to back him up.

Appart from what got him into heaven and which part of the universe he comes from we no nothing about Pikkon.

and to round it off, we never leanred a kami damned thing about Hit until he started fighting Goku. He just sat there with his eyes closed.

So why must Jiren be different?

[ankokudaishogun]

There is precedent for a character being as strong as Jiren is though: Freeza.

This.

Also, people keep forgetting the Saiyan aren't NORMALLY much strong.
Vegeta, a super-elite Saiyan, was at his NORMAL best about 20k.

Saiyan were, mostly, CHUMPS by galactic standards. Everybody in Freeza's army on Namek was stronger, our Saiyans being able to reach such highs was a complete anomaly.

Also: Hit. Hit was stronger than Super Saiyan Blue Goku. Hit didn't have God Ki.

So why, exactly, somebody in another universe cannot be completely broken even without God Ki or transformations?

[TheMikado]

It’s sure not going to make him compelling or interesting.

But that's not what's being discussed.

I certainly can see where people would make the distinction but for me Jiren is played as being extraordinarily exception for his power. Even in a multiverse tournament among the strongest fighters of 8 universes. Yet at this point he holds no position or background worthy of this distinguishing exceptional trait. A member of the Pride troops but not its leader.

I know we love to use other characters as the measuring stick and in the more traditional style of Dragon exceptional characters who are introduced as exception typically had an exceptional position denoting it. Frieza as the emperor of the universe, Cell as the ultimate creation, and Buu as the destroyer of the universe. Even characters like Dabura held exceptional positions. And Beerus and Whis. To exhibit what I mean, we assume both the grand priest and Zeno bodyguards are exceptionally strong strictly and solely due to their positions and proximity to Zeno. It’s the style of Dragonball and Jiren doesn’t fit that mold. He’s exceptional just because and holds nothing to show for it at this point that we are aware of. Again this could change, but it’s odd and doesn’t feel like how characters, especially main antagonists are introduced or created by Toriyama. Again even Hit who is exceptional was given a position as the greatest assassin to show his exceptionalism.

[Kanassa]

It’s sure not going to make him compelling or interesting.

But that's not what's being discussed.

I certainly can see where people would make the distinction but for me Jiren is played as being extraordinarily exception for his power. Even in a multiverse tournament among the strongest fighters of 8 universes. Yet at this point he holds no position or background worthy of this distinguishing exceptional trait. A member of the Pride troops but not its leader.

I know we love to use other characters as the measuring stick and in the more traditional style of Dragon exceptional characters who are introduced as exception typically had an exceptional position denoting it. Frieza as the emperor of the universe, Cell as the ultimate creation, and Buu as the destroyer of the universe. Even characters like Dabura held exceptional positions. And Beerus and Whis. To exhibit what I mean, we assume both the grand priest and Zeno bodyguards are exceptionally strong strictly and solely due to their positions and proximity to Zeno. It’s the style of Dragonball and Jiren doesn’t fit that mold. He’s exceptional just because and holds nothing to show for it at this point that we are aware of. Again this could change, but it’s odd and doesn’t feel like how characters, especially main antagonists are introduced or created by Toriyama. Again even Hit who is exceptional was given a position as the greatest assassin to show his exceptionalism.

And? The thread is about whether Jiren makes 'sense' to be this strong.

[TheMikado]

But that's not what's being discussed.

I certainly can see where people would make the distinction but for me Jiren is played as being extraordinarily exception for his power. Even in a multiverse tournament among the strongest fighters of 8 universes. Yet at this point he holds no position or background worthy of this distinguishing exceptional trait. A member of the Pride troops but not its leader.

I know we love to use other characters as the measuring stick and in the more traditional style of Dragon exceptional characters who are introduced as exception typically had an exceptional position denoting it. Frieza as the emperor of the universe, Cell as the ultimate creation, and Buu as the destroyer of the universe. Even characters like Dabura held exceptional positions. And Beerus and Whis. To exhibit what I mean, we assume both the grand priest and Zeno bodyguards are exceptionally strong strictly and solely due to their positions and proximity to Zeno. It’s the style of Dragonball and Jiren doesn’t fit that mold. He’s exceptional just because and holds nothing to show for it at this point that we are aware of. Again this could change, but it’s odd and doesn’t feel like how characters, especially main antagonists are introduced or created by Toriyama. Again even Hit who is exceptional was given a position as the greatest assassin to show his exceptionalism.

And? The thread is about whether Jiren makes 'sense' to be this strong.

My point is using Toriyama’s standard storytelling method he doesn’t which makes me wonder if he was even created by Toriyama at all.

In universe, based on the precedents set for the series this character doesn’t make a lot of sense for him to be this strong and basically almost working as a beat cop. It’s an exaggeration of course but what I’m saying is he doesn’t follow Toriyamas typical style and thus based on the patterns we’ve seen falls outside those patterns.

Jiren as a Toriyama creation, based on what we know of him at this present time does not make sense as a Toriyama creation, unless he wasn’t actually created by Toriyama at all.