Tenshinhan, the support character

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GreatSaiyaJeff
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Tenshinhan, the support character

Post by GreatSaiyaJeff » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:06 am

So I have been mulling over this for a while but I figured I start a topic on this. In this recent arc, episode 98 was an episode dedicated to Krillin and episode 105 was dedicated to Roshi and had quite a significant role in 107. Tien however barely had spotlight on him during this part of the arc and really only half of 106 was dedicated to him but he still got outshined by Goku and Vegeta. However this made me think of the character as a whole. After the Saiyan arc, Tien has really just been a support player. He would do one big thing and then he's done. Like stopping Cell from absorbing 18 or Saving Gohan from Buu. It make me think that Toriyama likes the character but doesn't know what to do with him. So he will give him one big moment in an arc and then proceed with the story.

What do you guys think?
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Re: Tien, The Support Character

Post by The_Destroyer » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:29 am

His role in the ToP was to be Roshi's cheerleader.
I'm surprised his last words before falling off the ring weren't "sasuga muten roshi sama!"

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Re: Tien, The Support Character

Post by Hit-Man » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:01 am

Tien? Tien is a disgrace simply put. If someone were to mention his name in my house in the presence of me and my wife then I would kindly but firmly ask them to leave.
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Re: Tien, The Support Character

Post by Kinokima » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:41 am

Tien isn't a disgrace but as I mentioned in another thread he literally has no connection to the main cast anymore besides being a friend. His main connection is to Chiaotzu. They have a nice friendship but I don't think this is enough to make Tien a relevant character again. It's really the same issue with Yamcha (although he has humor going for him) who's main connection right now seems to be to Puar. Even if Tien and Yamcha were to get stronger how would they connect them to the main storyline?

Roshi does a bit better because he was the former teacher of Goku. I am not the biggest fan of Roshi because I hate the perverted jokes but I can also see why he is more relevant and why he got two spotlight episodes.

But Kuririn is the strongest and most developed of the human characters. He is married to one of the former antagonists and even has a daughter that makes me invested in Kuririn inthe way I just am not in the other human characters. He has a job as a police officer. He's Goku's best friend. This type of thing is what keeps a character interesting and relevant not just how strong they are.

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Re: Tien, The Support Character

Post by namekiansaiyan » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:44 am

Toriyama doesn't know what to with most characters even though it is staring everyone else in the face.

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Re: Tien, The Support Character

Post by omaro34 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:12 am

Hit-Man wrote:Tien? Tien is a disgrace simply put. If someone were to mention his name in my house in the presence of me and my wife then I would kindly but firmly ask them to leave.
The writers decided to go that route with his character you know. This isn't reality television.
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Re: Tien, The Support Character

Post by Torturephile » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:30 am

The Pilaf Gang have more relevancy than Tenshinhan at this point, and they were forgotten of for a long time.
From Super episode 113 thread:
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namekiansaiyan wrote:I seriously don't see why some of you like this episode when nothing happened and was basically filler.
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Re: Tien, The Support Character

Post by Jigurashi » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:40 am

The_Destroyer wrote:His role in the ToP was to be Roshi's cheerleader.
I'm surprised his last words before falling off the ring weren't "sasuga muten roshi sama!"
That's our Muten Roshi Sama. Lmao it's hilarious and saddening.

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Re: Tien, The Support Character

Post by supercat » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:04 pm

Worst character in the tournament by far. In terms of power and overall just as a character is terrible. What makes him worse than the other fodders is he wastes time. I wouldn't even want to see his boring, cheesy, pathetic techniques. Why not just have him join the other fodders and have him knocked out of the ring in a way that gets him out quick like when Narirama was on his rampage.

Seriously, he should just stay at his school of weaklings. I also would dislike seeing him close to Piccolo, unless it's Piccolo degrading him for being so weak. So glad they didn't train together in the RoSaT.

There really isn't much that can be done with Tien. There's no real power up he can get since his lifelong years of training were all wasted. His power level is what? Ginyu Force-tier after all that? :clap:

I also love how Tien really got put in his place by Roshi. That was as comical as his silly poses and that charade of foolishness right before he got eliminated. He's a coward weakling and will likely stay that way.

Tien should really only save the compliments for Goku, Vegeta, and Frieza. He should just talk about how great it is that Frieza is fighting on their side.

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Re: Tien, The Support Character

Post by omaro34 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:38 pm

supercat wrote:Worst character in the tournament by far. In terms of power and overall just as a character is terrible. What makes him worse than the other fodders is he wastes time. I wouldn't even want to see his boring, cheesy, pathetic techniques. Why not just have him join the other fodders and have him knocked out of the ring in a way that gets him out quick like when Narirama was on his rampage.

Seriously, he should just stay at his school of weaklings. I also would dislike seeing him close to Piccolo, unless it's Piccolo degrading him for being so weak. So glad they didn't train together in the RoSaT.

There really isn't much that can be done with Tien. There's no real power up he can get since his lifelong years of training were all wasted. His power level is what? Ginyu Force-tier after all that? :clap:

I also love how Tien really got put in his place by Roshi. That was as comical as his silly poses and that charade of foolishness right before he got eliminated. He's a coward weakling and will likely stay that way.

Tien should really only save the compliments for Goku, Vegeta, and Frieza. He should just talk about how great it is that Frieza is fighting on their side.
Are you a troll or something? You always say the same thing over and over. Beating a dead horse doesn't change the fact that it's still dead. We know Tien has been a disappointment.
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Re: Tien, The Support Character

Post by precita » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:06 pm

I would have prefered Fat Buu in the tournament over Tien. Surely Buu would have been more entertaining to watch and would have had some unique fighting before he went down.

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Re: Tien, The Support Character

Post by Kinokima » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:42 pm

supercat wrote:Worst character in the tournament by far. In terms of power and overall just as a character is terrible. What makes him worse than the other fodders is he wastes time. I wouldn't even want to see his boring, cheesy, pathetic techniques. Why not just have him join the other fodders and have him knocked out of the ring in a way that gets him out quick like when Narirama was on his rampage.

Seriously, he should just stay at his school of weaklings. I also would dislike seeing him close to Piccolo, unless it's Piccolo degrading him for being so weak. So glad they didn't train together in the RoSaT.

There really isn't much that can be done with Tien. There's no real power up he can get since his lifelong years of training were all wasted. His power level is what? Ginyu Force-tier after all that? :clap:

I also love how Tien really got put in his place by Roshi. That was as comical as his silly poses and that charade of foolishness right before he got eliminated. He's a coward weakling and will likely stay that way.

Tien should really only save the compliments for Goku, Vegeta, and Frieza. He should just talk about how great it is that Frieza is fighting on their side.

This type of character bashing is completely pointless. If you don't like a character here is a thought why not talk about a character you do enjoy instead of trying to bring down a character someone else might be fond of. Anyways Tien may not be a main character but his long history on Dragon Ball means he deserves and has earned his place in the TOP. Again not everything about a character has to be about his power level.

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Re: Tien, The Support Character

Post by Akyon » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:07 pm

...as someone who tried desperately to argue for the importance of Tien, it's hard to see what exactly Tien contributes at this point.

His character relationships lack a dynamic angle; Chiaoutzu, his only close friend, is such a flat character he's a prop at this stage, his relationship with Goku SHOULD be far more interesting than it is, but feels like a diet version of Goku's relationship with Piccolo, he has surprisingly little to do with Krillin and Piccolo despite fighting alongside them repeatedly, and he talks to everyone with the same detatched "oh hey I'm here too" style.

Tien lacks a vibrant personality, being essentially a background character at this point and not having any really over the top personality quirks since his redemption. He doesn't wish to interact with the others being a lone wolf type, but doesn't really have the power or intrigue to hook an audience in.

What Tien does have is a history...of being there and a big bag of attacks. Which are ignored entirely so he can be reduced to his trademark attack at every opportunity.

Alas he doesn't even have anything worth adding as a spectator. Krillin and Roshi nearly always seem to make the interesting observations whilst Tien at best gasps in shock at something so obvious the other humans all instantly know.

Yamcha, for all his memeing status at least has stronger connections with the main cast; he was Krillin's fellow training student for a while, Roshi's actual pupil, a connection with Bulma, Oolong and Puar and should by all rights have a more dynamic relationship potentially with Vegeta than Tenshinhan has. He also has some gags(making him a far more entertaining character than Tien could ever hope to be), an interest in something outside fighting(baseball) and even PUAR, his satellite character is more interesting than Tien's one. Hell; Puar has won more fights too than Chiaoutzu and he's not even a fighter.

At this stage if we're going for a character to be a filler on the team, you may as well bring in the infinitely more amusing, dynamic, intertwined with the cast and...yeah even slightly sympathetic Yamcha instead of Tenshinhan. At least the audience would be entertained a bit.
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Re: Tien, The Support Character

Post by Lionel » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:53 pm

I've stated this before in another topic but I feel like Tenshinhan does have the potential to become a more compelling character with the background and personality attributes we know him to possess. One is his deep-rooted associations to the Crane School, a hotly contested rival of the Turtle School. After the 22nd tournament, Tenshinhan came to his own conclusions about morality and intention. What Toriyama could have done is build upon that redemptive nature by meshing it together with his background in the Crane style -- scrub the stigma of murderous iniquity and unscrupulousness from the name while redeeming and building upon it in. How many times have we seen characters take advantage of the Taiyoken? A lot -- keep in mind that it was originally a Crane School ability. It demonstrates the value in which other cast members seem to hold for the Crane's supply of abilities. Tenshinhan should have been working to foster that reputation and enable the Crane School to grow into a respectable platform like the Turtle did.

The second involves Tenshinhan's weariness of the deuteragonists who followed in his proverbial footsteps. We know he's always displayed a certain degree of hesitation when it comes to trusting Vegeta and to a lesser extent, Piccolo. Maybe he feels that since they're originally enemies to the human race and the planet that they don't quite feel the same commitment as the cast who loved the Earth originally did. Maybe he's not comfortable with the idea of being entirely dependent on aliens for the survival of his friends and world. Regardless, Tenshinhan should be seizing upon opportunities to allay that weariness by building himself up into a capable contender once again who can fend for himself without needing others to protect him. But does Toriyama or Toei emphasise this attribute? No, not really. It's probably an inessential attribute of a subsidiary character who carries little to no weight in the series at this point.

You could ask about the significance of Vegeta's relationships to the other cast members that aren't Goku, Beerus, Whis, or the Brief Family. Does he know or even about the opinions about those that affiliate themselves with Goku? For the most part, no. But since he's deemed the "eternal rival" of Goku, leniency is given to him so that this interactive inadequacy isn't a detriment to him. The arc plots generally don't involve the non Goku/Vegeta cast members in any significant way. It's only been in the recent arc that others like Gohan have begun to make some headway. However, even then I'm skeptical about the long-term efficacies of these developments.

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Re: Tien, The Support Character

Post by Zagacious » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:01 pm

Kinokima wrote:
supercat wrote:Worst character in the tournament by far. In terms of power and overall just as a character is terrible. What makes him worse than the other fodders is he wastes time. I wouldn't even want to see his boring, cheesy, pathetic techniques. Why not just have him join the other fodders and have him knocked out of the ring in a way that gets him out quick like when Narirama was on his rampage.

Seriously, he should just stay at his school of weaklings. I also would dislike seeing him close to Piccolo, unless it's Piccolo degrading him for being so weak. So glad they didn't train together in the RoSaT.

There really isn't much that can be done with Tien. There's no real power up he can get since his lifelong years of training were all wasted. His power level is what? Ginyu Force-tier after all that? :clap:

I also love how Tien really got put in his place by Roshi. That was as comical as his silly poses and that charade of foolishness right before he got eliminated. He's a coward weakling and will likely stay that way.

Tien should really only save the compliments for Goku, Vegeta, and Frieza. He should just talk about how great it is that Frieza is fighting on their side.

This type of character bashing is completely pointless. If you don't like a character here is a thought why not talk about a character you do enjoy instead of trying to bring down a character someone else might be fond of. Anyways Tien may not be a main character but his long history on Dragon Ball means he deserves and has earned his place in the TOP. Again not everything about a character has to be about his power level.
Because this is a thread about Tien? It's not trolling or pointless, it's a legitimate criticism for how they're treating the character, which is horrible. I don't like or dislike Tien, but it's pretty obvious he was completely wasted, but for the most part so is Piccolo. Dragon Ball Z wasn't that great at making side characters relevant, but even DBZ could do that during the Cell arc by making a weaker character at least prolong Cell's rise to Perfect Form. He could have done way better in the Sniper episode but even then it was a weak showing. They've already shown they can do it with Roshi, although I'm not expecting something as big as the Roshi episodes, at least one episode of that quality with Tien would have been nice, same for Piccolo but I doubt we'll get that either.

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Re: Tien, The Support Character

Post by Kinokima » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:37 pm

Zagacious wrote:
Kinokima wrote:
supercat wrote:Worst character in the tournament by far. In terms of power and overall just as a character is terrible. What makes him worse than the other fodders is he wastes time. I wouldn't even want to see his boring, cheesy, pathetic techniques. Why not just have him join the other fodders and have him knocked out of the ring in a way that gets him out quick like when Narirama was on his rampage.

Seriously, he should just stay at his school of weaklings. I also would dislike seeing him close to Piccolo, unless it's Piccolo degrading him for being so weak. So glad they didn't train together in the RoSaT.

There really isn't much that can be done with Tien. There's no real power up he can get since his lifelong years of training were all wasted. His power level is what? Ginyu Force-tier after all that? :clap:

I also love how Tien really got put in his place by Roshi. That was as comical as his silly poses and that charade of foolishness right before he got eliminated. He's a coward weakling and will likely stay that way.

Tien should really only save the compliments for Goku, Vegeta, and Frieza. He should just talk about how great it is that Frieza is fighting on their side.

This type of character bashing is completely pointless. If you don't like a character here is a thought why not talk about a character you do enjoy instead of trying to bring down a character someone else might be fond of. Anyways Tien may not be a main character but his long history on Dragon Ball means he deserves and has earned his place in the TOP. Again not everything about a character has to be about his power level.
Because this is a thread about Tien? It's not trolling or pointless, it's a legitimate criticism for how they're treating the character, which is horrible. I don't like or dislike Tien, but it's pretty obvious he was completely wasted, but for the most part so is Piccolo. Dragon Ball Z wasn't that great at making side characters relevant, but even DBZ could do that during the Cell arc by making a weaker character at least prolong Cell's rise to Perfect Form. He could have done way better in the Sniper episode but even then it was a weak showing. They've already shown they can do it with Roshi, although I'm not expecting something as big as the Roshi episodes, at least one episode of that quality with Tien would have been nice, same for Piccolo but I doubt we'll get that either.
If you read my previous post on this topic I am not against legitimate criticism about the writing of Tien’s character and how he is used but I am against character bashing of any type which is exactly what that post I replied to was doing. Nothing in that post was legitimate criticism.


However If you want to see what well thought out legitimate criticism in this thread is then that is Akyon’s Post.

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Re: Tien, The Support Character

Post by Akyon » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:52 pm

Lionel wrote: You could ask about the significance of Vegeta's relationships to the other cast members that aren't Goku, Beerus, Whis, or the Brief Family. Does he know or even about the opinions about those that affiliate themselves with Goku? For the most part, no. But since he's deemed the "eternal rival" of Goku, leniency is given to him so that this interactive inadequacy isn't a detriment to him. The arc plots generally don't involve the non Goku/Vegeta cast members in any significant way. It's only been in the recent arc that others like Gohan have begun to make some headway. However, even then I'm skeptical about the long-term efficacies of these developments.
I'm not a big Vegeta fan but the key difference between Vegeta's limited relationships and Tenshinhan's are Vegeta's are strong connections with the central characters; Goku and Bulma who are inarguably the series protagonists, and Beerus and Whis are extremely central main characters as of Super. He's developed a new one with Cabba who seems to be being set up as one of Universe 6's biggest names next to Hit and of course his son was the central character of an arc too. Vegeta is very much involved through those limited relationships due to whom they're with.

Tenshinhan meanwhile has Chiaoutzu, Roshi, and arguably with Yamcha due to their little rivalry but unfortunately even his relationship with Goku seems like an informed friendship if you didn't know the history prior to coming in to Super.

I did love the rest of your ideas though, and the concern upon relying on space aliens for the survival of his world is a dynamic I'd REALLY like to see explored with Tien, who let's be real, is the only one who could potentially pull that off convincingly. Krillin is too enamoured with the saiyans and Piccolo, and Yamcha is far too laid back as a person to take advantage of such concerns. Roshi could be another option for this idea, but if it was given to Tenshinhan(and explored properly) he'd easily sail up to my top three characters with that idea alone.
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Re: Tien, The Support Character

Post by Olympian » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:13 pm

omaro34 wrote:
supercat wrote:Worst character in the tournament by far. In terms of power and overall just as a character is terrible. What makes him worse than the other fodders is he wastes time. I wouldn't even want to see his boring, cheesy, pathetic techniques. Why not just have him join the other fodders and have him knocked out of the ring in a way that gets him out quick like when Narirama was on his rampage.

Seriously, he should just stay at his school of weaklings. I also would dislike seeing him close to Piccolo, unless it's Piccolo degrading him for being so weak. So glad they didn't train together in the RoSaT.

There really isn't much that can be done with Tien. There's no real power up he can get since his lifelong years of training were all wasted. His power level is what? Ginyu Force-tier after all that? :clap:

I also love how Tien really got put in his place by Roshi. That was as comical as his silly poses and that charade of foolishness right before he got eliminated. He's a coward weakling and will likely stay that way.

Tien should really only save the compliments for Goku, Vegeta, and Frieza. He should just talk about how great it is that Frieza is fighting on their side.
Are you a troll or something? You always say the same thing over and over. Beating a dead horse doesn't change the fact that it's still dead. We know Tien has been a disappointment.
Is there a point to ask at this stage?

It`s the same broken record regarding non Saiyan characters.
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Re: Tien, The Support Character

Post by GreatSaiyaJeff » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:29 pm

To me if Toriyama was done with Tien, why not just have him retire like Yajirobe or Yamcha. It just seems like he has a soft spot for him, which is why he at least has a little moment. That is what perplexes me, if he wanted Tien to apart of this fully then give him more meat. However I think he has fondness for the character and tries to shoehorn him even if their is no real reason to do so.
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Re: Tien, The Support Character

Post by blackbewhite2k7 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:13 am

supercat wrote:Worst character in the tournament by far. In terms of power and overall just as a character is terrible.
(cough) Universe 3's Nigrishi...(cough, cough)

With 2 eliminations under his belt, Tien has easily had a better showing then roughly half of the other contestants who've came and went in this entire Tournament...

Seriously, though. Really is a broken record with you isn't it?

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