Why is Super Shenron named Super Shenron?

[Hakaishin Liquir]

Super Shenron's name doesn't make much sense tbh. Why is he named after Shenron even though he is much older than Shenron and is the original dragon? Shenron should be named after him, not the other way around.

[MaskedRider]

I don't remember the dialogue that was said in those episodes but I don't think it was said he was named after Shenron, I mean outside of universe its clear he is but in universe for all we know Earth's dragon is named after that golden colossal of a flying lizard.

[Zephyr]

He isn't 'named after Shenron', really. Shenron is just the dub's localization of his Japanese name: "Shen Long", which literally means "god dragon". Which really makes it seem more like a title than anything else, ala Kami or Kaio or Kaioshin. So "Super Shenron" is just "super god dragon".

I guess that doesn't entirely solve the problem, though. You'd think Shen Long should thus be "less awesome god dragon" or something.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I remember someone mentioned this somewhere, though I don't know how valid this is. If I'm wrong, please let me know.

I remember someone said that Porunga was also called "Super Shenlong" before his true name was revealed. It could be that the same is true of the dragon from the Super Dragon Balls, where it's basically a "Super" version of Shenlong. I mean, come on..... that thing IS pretty super compared to Earth's Shenlong.

[Meshack]

He isn't 'named after Shenron', really. Shenron is just the dub's localization of his Japanese name: "Shen Long", which literally means "god dragon". Which really makes it seem more like a title than anything else, ala Kami or Kaio or Kaioshin. So "Super Shenron" is just "super god dragon".

I guess that doesn't entirely solve the problem, though. You'd think Shen Long should thus be "less awesome god dragon" or something.

False. The name for Shenron in Japanese is 神龍 with the furi of シェンロン which is SHENRON. It’s suppose to be read as Shenron, not Shenlong. Even Japanese material use Shenron over Shen Long or Shenlong, so it’s not a dubism. It’s the same with Taopaipai, Gokuh, Tenshinhan, and others. Shenlong is the Chinese reading. We don’t call Gokuh, Wukong, or Tenshinhan, Tianjinfan, or Taopaipai, Taobaibai. This is a Japanese series with Chinese characters but Toriyama gave the furi for Divine Dragon for a reason. It’s Shenron, not Shenlong.

[Meshack]

Shenron is not a name. It means Divine Dragon (神龍). Since Super Shenron is on a larger scale than Shenron, Piccolo named him Super Shenron, meaning Super Divine Dragon. Shenron is 神龍 with the furi of シェンロン which is Shenron. Super Shenron is 超 (スーパー) 神龍 (シェンロン) which is Suupaa Shenron, meaning Super Divine Dragon like I said.

It’s similar to the Evil Dragons or Shadow Dragons. The first dragon is Iishinron (Syn Shenron) 一星龍 (イーシンロ) Īshinron, but his name means One-Star (Ichi sei) Dragon (ryū).

[MaskedRider]

False. The name for Shenron in Japanese is 神龍 with the furi of シェンロン which is SHENRON.

Shenron is not a name.

Can you clarify what you mean here. Were you meaning that its not a name but rather a title?

[dbgtFO]

Zarama is a Ryuujin(Dragon God) while "Super Shenlong" is Kami no Ryu(which basically means the same as Ryuujin, as we all know Kami means God).
In-universe it's just the characters being uncreative like with Super Saiyan 4 in GT. Out of universe it's probably the same, too bad we don't have a better name or they just went with titling him Kami no Ryuu.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Honestly, I wish Zarama WAS the dragon from the Super Dragon Balls in addition to their creator. It'd be an interesting idea, that the dragon itself is the creator of this wishing cycle and humbles himself to anyone who wants to make wishes beyond imagination.

[Meshack]

False. The name for Shenron in Japanese is 神龍 with the furi of シェンロン which is SHENRON.

Shenron is not a name.

Can you clarify what you mean here. Were you meaning that its not a name but rather a title?

All of the dragons are described as Divine Dragons, Shenron.

[VegettoEX]

He isn't 'named after Shenron', really. Shenron is just the dub's localization of his Japanese name: "Shen Long", which literally means "god dragon". Which really makes it seem more like a title than anything else, ala Kami or Kaio or Kaioshin. So "Super Shenron" is just "super god dragon".

I guess that doesn't entirely solve the problem, though. You'd think Shen Long should thus be "less awesome god dragon" or something.

False. The name for Shenron in Japanese is 神龍 with the furi of シェンロン which is SHENRON. It’s suppose to be read as Shenron, not Shenlong. Even Japanese material use Shenron over Shen Long or Shenlong, so it’s not a dubism. It’s the same with Taopaipai, Gokuh, Tenshinhan, and others. Shenlong is the Chinese reading. We don’t call Gokuh, Wukong, or Tenshinhan, Tianjinfan, or Taopaipai, Taobaibai. This is a Japanese series with Chinese characters but Toriyama gave the furi for Divine Dragon for a reason. It’s Shenron, not Shenlong.

This is not an accurate explanation of his name.

The reason he's given the シェンロン furigana is so you read the name with the (Japanese approximation of the) Chinese pronunciation instead of the native Japanese reading, which would be shin ryuu.

(The same way the furigana indicate a Chinese pronunciation instead of calling the little white clown gyouza, which is actually a joke made in-universe.)

Japanese cannot perfectly approximate the phoenetics of the Chinese reading of the name, and as such, シェンロン is what you get out of it, the same way their approximation of our English word "Trunks" is トランクス, which you then backwards-transliterate into "torankusu"...

But of could you don't actually use that because you know what the intended source word is. It's the same thing here: the intended pronunciation is the Chinese pronunciation. There's no need for us to go to Chinese by way of Japanese; we can go straight to the Chinese.

Thus, Shenlong.

Your understanding is a ways there, but not complete. I could go into detail on the other names you listed if need be.

[dbgtFO]

Just looked up the Funi dub's rendition of Zuno's info dump about the Super Dragon Balls and here he says that Zalama will come out of the balls once summoned...(2:00)
Whereas in the original he just repeats the term Kami no Ryu, as the one being summoned.
Looks like the script writers got mixed up with those terms both translating as Dragon God

[Meshack]

Just looked up the Funi dub's rendition of Zuno's info dump about the Super Dragon Balls and here he says that Zalama will come out of the balls once summoned...(2:00)
Whereas in the original he just repeats the term Kami no Ryu, as the one being summoned.
Looks like the script writers got mixed up with those terms both translating as Dragon God

I think they said they’re fixing it, but idk. I don’t watch dubs anymore

[Meshack]

He isn't 'named after Shenron', really. Shenron is just the dub's localization of his Japanese name: "Shen Long", which literally means "god dragon". Which really makes it seem more like a title than anything else, ala Kami or Kaio or Kaioshin. So "Super Shenron" is just "super god dragon".

I guess that doesn't entirely solve the problem, though. You'd think Shen Long should thus be "less awesome god dragon" or something.

False. The name for Shenron in Japanese is 神龍 with the furi of シェンロン which is SHENRON. It’s suppose to be read as Shenron, not Shenlong. Even Japanese material use Shenron over Shen Long or Shenlong, so it’s not a dubism. It’s the same with Taopaipai, Gokuh, Tenshinhan, and others. Shenlong is the Chinese reading. We don’t call Gokuh, Wukong, or Tenshinhan, Tianjinfan, or Taopaipai, Taobaibai. This is a Japanese series with Chinese characters but Toriyama gave the furi for Divine Dragon for a reason. It’s Shenron, not Shenlong.

This is not an accurate explanation of his name.

The reason he's given the シェンロン furigana is so you read the name with the (Japanese approximation of the) Chinese pronunciation instead of the native Japanese reading, which would be shin ryuu.

(The same way the furigana indicate a Chinese pronunciation instead of calling the little white clown gyouza, which is actually a joke made in-universe.)

Japanese cannot perfectly approximate the phoenetics of the Chinese reading of the name, and as such, シェンロン is what you get out of it, the same way their approximation of our English word "Trunks" is トランクス, which you then backwards-transliterate into "torankusu"...

But of could you don't actually use that because you know what the intended source word is. It's the same thing here: the intended pronunciation is the Chinese pronunciation. There's no need for us to go to Chinese by way of Japanese; we can go straight to the Chinese.

Thus, Shenlong.

Your understanding is a ways there, but not complete. I could go into detail on the other names you listed if need be.

Yes. Please go into detail with the other names. Japanese material don’t name Shenron as Shenlong even though they would be more aware of the “pun” or intended use than us. Other spellings such as Tianjinfan, Jiaozi, Taobaibai, Sun Wukong, Yi Xing Long (along with the other Evil Dragons), and others aren’t used either. Shouldn’t we go with what the Japanese pronunciation is over the Chinese because it is a Japanese series?

P.S. I already knew about the Chinese pronunciation stuff.

[VegettoEX]

Yes. Please go into detail with the other names. Japanese material don’t name Shenron as Shenlong even though they would be more aware of the “pun” or intended use than us. Other spellings such as Tianjinfan, Jiaozi, Taobaibai, Sun Wukong, Yi Xing Long (along with the other Evil Dragons), and others aren’t used either. Shouldn’t we go with what the Japanese pronunciation is over the Chinese because it is a Japanese series?

P.S. I already knew about the Chinese pronunciation stuff.

(Bolded emphasis my own)

I don't think that you do, because the examples you're citing don't line up with what you're arguing. Your understanding of different transliteration styles and pronunciation guides appears limited.

I would recommend listening to our podcast episode about Chinese names in the series and asking questions in another thread (perhaps that very podcast episode's feedback thread), as we have taken this a bit far from the intended topic.

[Meshack]

Yes. Please go into detail with the other names. Japanese material don’t name Shenron as Shenlong even though they would be more aware of the “pun” or intended use than us. Other spellings such as Tianjinfan, Jiaozi, Taobaibai, Sun Wukong, Yi Xing Long (along with the other Evil Dragons), and others aren’t used either. Shouldn’t we go with what the Japanese pronunciation is over the Chinese because it is a Japanese series?

P.S. I already knew about the Chinese pronunciation stuff.

(Bolded emphasis my own)

I don't think that you do, because the examples you're citing don't line up with what you're arguing. Your understanding of different transliteration styles and pronunciation guides appears limited.

I would recommend listening to our podcast episode about Chinese names in the series and asking questions in another thread (perhaps that very podcast episode's feedback thread), as we have taken this a bit far from the intended topic.

I don’t know if I’m saying it the correct way but I knew Shenron along with the other examples I mentioned are the Japanese pronunciation of the Chinese words. Basically what I’m saying is, why use Taobaibai or Shenlong when Japanese material use Taopaipai and Shenron?

[Herms]

Basically what I’m saying is, why use Taobaibai or Shenlong when Japanese material use Taopaipai and Shenron?

Because the Japanese materials do use "Shenlong". That's what シェンロン is. It's how you write "Shenlong" in Japanese. There's no other, different katakana spelling they could have used to spell "Shenlong". And on the flipside, there's no reason they would have used the katakana spelling シェンロン other than to indicate the Chinese name "Shenlong".

[Meshack]

Basically what I’m saying is, why use Taobaibai or Shenlong when Japanese material use Taopaipai and Shenron?

Because the Japanese materials do use "Shenlong". That's what シェンロン is. It's how you write "Shenlong" in Japanese. There's no other, different katakana spelling they could have used to spell "Shenlong". And on the flipside, there's no reason they would have used the katakana spelling シェンロン other than to indicate the Chinese name "Shenlong".

Oh, okay! Thanks Herms & VegettoEX!

[Cipher]

He isn't 'named after Shenron', really. Shenron is just the dub's localization of his Japanese name: "Shen Long", which literally means "god dragon". Which really makes it seem more like a title than anything else, ala Kami or Kaio or Kaioshin. So "Super Shenron" is just "super god dragon".

I guess that doesn't entirely solve the problem, though. You'd think Shen Long should thus be "less awesome god dragon" or something.

False. The name for Shenron in Japanese is 神龍 with the furi of シェンロン which is SHENRON. It’s suppose to be read as Shenron, not Shenlong. Even Japanese material use Shenron over Shen Long or Shenlong, so it’s not a dubism. It’s the same with Taopaipai, Gokuh, Tenshinhan, and others. Shenlong is the Chinese reading. We don’t call Gokuh, Wukong, or Tenshinhan, Tianjinfan, or Taopaipai, Taobaibai. This is a Japanese series with Chinese characters but Toriyama gave the furi for Divine Dragon for a reason. It’s Shenron, not Shenlong.

This is basically the stickiest thing in all of Dragon Ball translation though, isn't it?

Because "Shenron" (シェンロン) doesn't draw from any of the standard Japanese readings of the characters. It's specifically instructing the reader to use an approximated version of the Chinese pronunciation. The same thing is done for the Dragon Balls themselves, for the Evil Dragons in GT, for Tao Pai Pai (despite not being "bai bai"), etc.

This is specifically different from, say, Goku's name, which is laid out as "Gokuu" in the furigana.

There's really nothing wrong with either, but there's a serious case to be made for Shen-Long. Which, by the way, is impossible to represent using Japanese kana any other way than シェンロン. (Which then gets carried over into standard romaji as "shenron," but at that point it's been a serious game of phonetic-approximation telephone; the intent of approximating the Chinese reading seems clear.)

EDIT -- Got trigger-happy and quoted before reading the responses above. Just going to leave it to throw one more post onto the explanation pile.

Re: Topic: Because he looks more like a "Super" than a "Steve."

[Meshack]

He isn't 'named after Shenron', really. Shenron is just the dub's localization of his Japanese name: "Shen Long", which literally means "god dragon". Which really makes it seem more like a title than anything else, ala Kami or Kaio or Kaioshin. So "Super Shenron" is just "super god dragon".

I guess that doesn't entirely solve the problem, though. You'd think Shen Long should thus be "less awesome god dragon" or something.

False. The name for Shenron in Japanese is 神龍 with the furi of シェンロン which is SHENRON. It’s suppose to be read as Shenron, not Shenlong. Even Japanese material use Shenron over Shen Long or Shenlong, so it’s not a dubism. It’s the same with Taopaipai, Gokuh, Tenshinhan, and others. Shenlong is the Chinese reading. We don’t call Gokuh, Wukong, or Tenshinhan, Tianjinfan, or Taopaipai, Taobaibai. This is a Japanese series with Chinese characters but Toriyama gave the furi for Divine Dragon for a reason. It’s Shenron, not Shenlong.

This is basically the stickiest thing in all of Dragon Ball translation though, isn't it?

Because "Shenron" (シェンロン) doesn't draw from any of the standard Japanese readings of the characters. It's specifically instructing the reader to use an approximated version of the Chinese pronunciation. The same thing is done for the Dragon Balls themselves, for the Evil Dragons in GT, for Tao Pai Pai (despite not being "bai bai"), etc.

This is specifically different from, say, Goku's name, which is laid out as "Gokuu" in the furigana.

There's really nothing wrong with either, but there's a serious case to be made for Shen-Long. Which, by the way, is impossible to represent using Japanese kana any other way than シェンロン. (Which then gets carried over into standard romaji as "shenron," but at that point it's been a serious game of phonetic-approximation telephone; the intent of approximating the Chinese reading seems clear.)

EDIT -- Got trigger-happy and quoted before reading the responses above. Just going to leave it to throw one more post onto the explanation pile.

Re: Topic: Because he looks more like a "Super" than a "Steve."

Thanks Cipher!

But look at this: http://comic.dragonballcn.com/list/0.Dr ... -4/028.jpg