Are Caulifa and Kale popular characters? What is the general consensus?

[Asura]

As far as I can tell; the girls wouldn't have gotten so much screen time if they weren't proving to be a hit. Sure episodes are written and made a few months in advance, so i'll wait till the end of the arc to say for sure, but if they return in the near future it'll be without question they're loved.

I'm betting they'll be similar to Broly where everyone "supposedly" hates them but they'll be all over the place in games, merchandise, etc. and do incredibly well there.

[Timetraveller]

As far as I can tell; the girls wouldn't have gotten so much screen time if they weren't proving to be a hit. Sure episodes are written and made a few months in advance, so i'll wait till the end of the arc to say for sure, but if they return in the near future it'll be without question they're loved.

I'm betting they'll be similar to Broly where everyone "supposedly" hates them but they'll be all over the place in games, merchandise, etc. and do incredibly well there.

People like Broly. That's why they brought him back 3-4 times in different movies. It's the same reason they brought back Frieza. Everything is dictated by a character's popularity amongst fans. Kale is a Broly clone and people aren't going to like a Mary sue Broly as much as the original. It doesn't appease the Broly fans and just feels like a cheap way to exploit his popularity without actually bringing him back.

[Kastex]

I've read through a number of the comments in this thread and from what i can tell, it seems that most of the people that dislike caulifla/kale have shallow reasons for it. reasons based on misconceptions or straight up false information. sometimes even no reason at all.

i invite everyone to view my in depth analysis threads about these two characters.
viewtopic.php?t=39129
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=39348

[Kinokima]

As far as I can tell; the girls wouldn't have gotten so much screen time if they weren't proving to be a hit. Sure episodes are written and made a few months in advance, so i'll wait till the end of the arc to say for sure, but if they return in the near future it'll be without question they're loved.

I'm betting they'll be similar to Broly where everyone "supposedly" hates them but they'll be all over the place in games, merchandise, etc. and do incredibly well there.

I don’t like Broly but he is definitely popular. I won’t deny that. There is a new figure of him selling on Ami Ami and it’s no 1 for the day!

[RedHeat]

I've read through a number of the comments in this thread and from what i can tell, it seems that most of the people that dislike caulifla/kale have shallow reasons for it. reasons based on misconceptions or straight up false information. sometimes even no reason at all.

i invite everyone to view my in depth analysis threads about these two characters.
viewtopic.php?t=39129
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=39348

Yeah, well, that's why it's so easy to refute a lot of the arguments. I won't deny that some have legitimate reasons, but most of it bowls down to preconceived notions, personal bias/ignorance, prejudices, etc..

[JazzMazz]

I've read through a number of the comments in this thread and from what i can tell, it seems that most of the people that dislike caulifla/kale have shallow reasons for it. reasons based on misconceptions or straight up false information. sometimes even no reason at all.

i invite everyone to view my in depth analysis threads about these two characters.
viewtopic.php?t=39129
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=39348

Yeah, well, that's why it's so easy to refute a lot of the arguments. I won't deny that some have legitimate reasons, but most of it bowls down to preconceived notions, personal bias/ignorance, prejudices, etc..

I don't understand why your conflating personal bias with ignorance, they aren't mutually exclusive in the least. They are two completely different idea's. I could understand if you were conflating bias and prejudice, since they are both involved in determining a persons tastes, which at the end of the day is what determines what people do and don't like.

Personal bias and prejudice are what determine a persons like and dislike of pretty much everything. I don't see why thats a shallow reason to dislike characters.

[Timetraveller]

I've read through a number of the comments in this thread and from what i can tell, it seems that most of the people that dislike caulifla/kale have shallow reasons for it. reasons based on misconceptions or straight up false information. sometimes even no reason at all.

i invite everyone to view my in depth analysis threads about these two characters.
viewtopic.php?t=39129
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=39348

In depth analysis based entirely on speculation and headcanon? I appreciate the contribution to the forum but that doesn't really refute any of the reasons people dislike them as characters. It's basically a long letter detailing why you like them which is fine since it's based on personal preference and taste

[Kastex]

I've read through a number of the comments in this thread and from what i can tell, it seems that most of the people that dislike caulifla/kale have shallow reasons for it. reasons based on misconceptions or straight up false information. sometimes even no reason at all.

i invite everyone to view my in depth analysis threads about these two characters.
viewtopic.php?t=39129
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=39348

In depth analysis based entirely on speculation and headcanon? I appreciate the contribution to the forum but that doesn't really refute any of the reasons people dislike them as characters. It's basically a long letter detailing why you like them which is fine since it's based on personal preference and taste

hm, which part of my analysis is based on speculation and headcanon? my entire analysis is based on material from the show and any speculation from me is based purely on the analysis. nothing from my analysis or my speculation has been debunked despite not being updated in months.

[Asura]

As far as I can tell; the girls wouldn't have gotten so much screen time if they weren't proving to be a hit. Sure episodes are written and made a few months in advance, so i'll wait till the end of the arc to say for sure, but if they return in the near future it'll be without question they're loved.

I'm betting they'll be similar to Broly where everyone "supposedly" hates them but they'll be all over the place in games, merchandise, etc. and do incredibly well there.

People like Broly. That's why they brought him back 3-4 times in different movies. It's the same reason they brought back Frieza. Everything is dictated by a character's popularity amongst fans. Kale is a Broly clone and people aren't going to like a Mary sue Broly as much as the original. It doesn't appease the Broly fans and just feels like a cheap way to exploit his popularity without actually bringing him back.

I'd agree with you had you made this post a couple months ago, but luckily TOEI got that stupid shit out of their systems and made Kale into her own likeable character now, so I don't think in the future people will be hating her as a Broly clone, especially since she lost the Broly form.

I also don't really see Kale as a Mary Sue. I can understand the arguments for Caulifla being one but not really Kale.

[Asura]

I've read through a number of the comments in this thread and from what i can tell, it seems that most of the people that dislike caulifla/kale have shallow reasons for it. reasons based on misconceptions or straight up false information. sometimes even no reason at all.

i invite everyone to view my in depth analysis threads about these two characters.
viewtopic.php?t=39129
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=39348

In depth analysis based entirely on speculation and headcanon? I appreciate the contribution to the forum but that doesn't really refute any of the reasons people dislike them as characters. It's basically a long letter detailing why you like them which is fine since it's based on personal preference and taste

hm, which part of my analysis is based on speculation and headcanon? my entire analysis is based on material from the show and any speculation from me is based purely on the analysis. nothing from my analysis or my speculation has been debunked despite not being updated in months.

Well sure you can say it hasn't been debunked but saying stuff like Caulifla is 40 years old because her real age hasn't been revealed thus it "can't be debunked" doesn't really mean much or give any credence to your speculation/analysis.

And sorry for the double post, trying to edit in another quote to an existing post on mobile is a time consuming nightmare.

[RedHeat]

I've read through a number of the comments in this thread and from what i can tell, it seems that most of the people that dislike caulifla/kale have shallow reasons for it. reasons based on misconceptions or straight up false information. sometimes even no reason at all.

i invite everyone to view my in depth analysis threads about these two characters.
viewtopic.php?t=39129
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=39348

Yeah, well, that's why it's so easy to refute a lot of the arguments. I won't deny that some have legitimate reasons, but most of it bowls down to preconceived notions, personal bias/ignorance, prejudices, etc..

I don't understand why your conflating personal bias with ignorance, they aren't mutually exclusive in the least. They are two completely different idea's. I could understand if you were conflating bias and prejudice, since they are both involved in determining a persons tastes, which at the end of the day is what determines what people do and don't like.

Personal bias and prejudice are what determine a persons like and dislike of pretty much everything. I don't see why thats a shallow reason to dislike characters.

Not when you're trying to be objective. Sure, it's obvious that everyone has bias, but you let effect your reasoning skills then it becomes shallow.

[Kastex]

In depth analysis based entirely on speculation and headcanon? I appreciate the contribution to the forum but that doesn't really refute any of the reasons people dislike them as characters. It's basically a long letter detailing why you like them which is fine since it's based on personal preference and taste

hm, which part of my analysis is based on speculation and headcanon? my entire analysis is based on material from the show and any speculation from me is based purely on the analysis. nothing from my analysis or my speculation has been debunked despite not being updated in months.

Well sure you can say it hasn't been debunked but saying stuff like Caulifla is 40 years old because her real age hasn't been revealed thus it "can't be debunked" doesn't really mean much or give any credence to your speculation/analysis.

And sorry for the double post, trying to edit in another quote to an existing post on mobile is a time consuming nightmare.

true, but i never said that caulifla is 40 years old. i said that she is roughly 22-40 years old, accounting for as many things as i could to produce the most reasonable and logical estimate. for example i could have said that she's 2 years old or 100 years old but that wouldn't make any sense and there is no evidence to back that. i could have said that her age is between the range of 0-200 but that would be ridiculously obvious since we know the average lifespan of a u7 saiyan and u6 saiyan lifespans are likely not too drastically different. i suppose you are right that it can't be debunked since her actual age has not been stated yet, but this still falls within the range of truth for my statement, since it only proves that i was right about it not being debunked.
for anyone to suggest that my analysis or speculation is not accurate is wrong for the same reasons.

for me, the fun in the analysis and speculation was to provide practical information based on the material in absence of confirmed information, else it would be an analysis of the wiki, but in that case it would make more sense if the entire OP on that thread was a simple link to the wiki page. the only reason i was able to do an analysis is because that information was not in the wiki.

[Asura]

hm, which part of my analysis is based on speculation and headcanon? my entire analysis is based on material from the show and any speculation from me is based purely on the analysis. nothing from my analysis or my speculation has been debunked despite not being updated in months.

Well sure you can say it hasn't been debunked but saying stuff like Caulifla is 40 years old because her real age hasn't been revealed thus it "can't be debunked" doesn't really mean much or give any credence to your speculation/analysis.

And sorry for the double post, trying to edit in another quote to an existing post on mobile is a time consuming nightmare.

true, but i never said that caulifla is 40 years old. i said that she is roughly 22-40 years old, accounting for as many things as i could to produce the most reasonable and logical estimate. for example i could have said that she's 2 years old or 100 years old but that wouldn't make any sense and there is no evidence to back that. i could have said that her age is between the range of 0-200 but that would be ridiculously obvious since we know the average lifespan of a u7 saiyan and u6 saiyan lifespans are likely not too drastically different. i suppose you are right that it can't be debunked since her actual age has not been stated yet, but this still falls within the range of truth for my statement, since it only proves that i was right about it not being debunked.
for anyone to suggest that my analysis or speculation is not accurate is wrong for the same reasons.

for me, the fun in the analysis and speculation was to provide practical information based on the material in absence of confirmed information, else it would be an analysis of the wiki, but in that case it would make more sense if the entire OP on that thread was a simple link to the wiki page. the only reason i was able to do an analysis is because that information was not in the wiki.

Your estimation of her being 22 - 40 doesn't have much basis as proof and goes against what most people believe which is that she's probably more around 18. Like others have said your analysis falls more along the lines of headcanon simply because there's not much basis for most of the things you've come up with, and most of the time actually go against what is commonly agreed upon such as Caulifla being arrogant/cocky and a teen/very young adult where you think she's not either one of those things. So it doesn't do much good to say "Here's my analysis of these characters, read them to understand them" when your analysis isn't agreed upon by most people.

[precita]

Caulifa, Kale and Cabba are probably anywhere around 17-25 or so. They don't look any older than that.

[thegamer23]

They are not terrible carachters. It's the ridicolous overpower they're getting that's frustrating.

You may say, overpowered like Jiren?

Yeah, but we knew from the start that Jiren was a beast. The mortal stronger than a god. He's probably been training for ages, along with Belmond maybe, reaching incredible heights of power.

Kale & Caulifla discovered the SSJ base transformation just DAYS before the tournament. And now they can counter-attack an Ultra Instinct Goku?

No way.

[Kastex]

Well sure you can say it hasn't been debunked but saying stuff like Caulifla is 40 years old because her real age hasn't been revealed thus it "can't be debunked" doesn't really mean much or give any credence to your speculation/analysis.

And sorry for the double post, trying to edit in another quote to an existing post on mobile is a time consuming nightmare.

true, but i never said that caulifla is 40 years old. i said that she is roughly 22-40 years old, accounting for as many things as i could to produce the most reasonable and logical estimate. for example i could have said that she's 2 years old or 100 years old but that wouldn't make any sense and there is no evidence to back that. i could have said that her age is between the range of 0-200 but that would be ridiculously obvious since we know the average lifespan of a u7 saiyan and u6 saiyan lifespans are likely not too drastically different. i suppose you are right that it can't be debunked since her actual age has not been stated yet, but this still falls within the range of truth for my statement, since it only proves that i was right about it not being debunked.
for anyone to suggest that my analysis or speculation is not accurate is wrong for the same reasons.

for me, the fun in the analysis and speculation was to provide practical information based on the material in absence of confirmed information, else it would be an analysis of the wiki, but in that case it would make more sense if the entire OP on that thread was a simple link to the wiki page. the only reason i was able to do an analysis is because that information was not in the wiki.

Your estimation of her being 22 - 40 doesn't have much basis as proof and goes against what most people believe which is that she's probably more around 18. Like others have said your analysis falls more along the lines of headcanon simply because there's not much basis for most of the things you've come up with, and most of the time actually go against what is commonly agreed upon such as Caulifla being arrogant/cocky and a teen/very young adult where you think she's not either one of those things. So it doesn't do much good to say "Here's my analysis of these characters, read them to understand them" when your analysis isn't agreed upon by most people.

naturally, the kind of viewer who is above the average cut should make these kinds of assumptions for everyone. not long ago the majority of people thought that caulifla and goku would become romantic with each other. ridiculous. when the same people get together and think the character is a teenager of course there are similar odds that they are wrong (note: i am NOT saying that everyone that believes these things are average viewers. i simply mean that in cases like this, the general consensus is what the average viewer thinks. i also don't mean "average viewer" as being offensive. it just refers to the casual viewer.). i on the other hand actually viewed the material and took it apart, comparing it to other material from the same show and viewing it from different perspectives to come to a reasonable and logical deduction. compared to that, the average viewer simply looking at a character and judging it based on first impression without diving deeper is more worthy of being considered headcanon.

i provided ample reasoning why she is not arrogant/cocky (based on my provided definition), or a teen. i firmly believe she is a young adult, though my definition of "young adult" might be a bit different than yours.

[Asura]

Kale & Caulifla discovered the SSJ base transformation just DAYS before the tournament. And now they can counter-attack an Ultra Instinct Goku?

No way.

...What?

Where'd you get the idea from that they can counter attack UI Goku? Not only have they (obviously) never fought UI Goku, but Goku was able to easily take Caulifla 1v1 in only SSJ2. It took both of them attacking him just for him to go SSG and even then that was way overkill. Plus Goku is now exhausted after his fight with Jiren too and he's still able to overpower them.

Despite discovering the SSJ transformations just days before the tournament, Caulifla and Kale really are not that powerful. They are nowhere even near Goku/Vegeta/Freeza/Jiren/Toppo/Dyspo/Hit/etc.'s league. Even when Kale went berserk in 100 and was fighting Goku and "forced" him to go Blue, Goku didn't have a single scratch on him. She wasn't even doing damage.

Cabba's base was stated to be on the same level as Vegeta's base, and Caulifla is most likely stronger than Cabba, so is it really even that surprising that Caulifla and Kale are as powerful as they are in SSJ2/Berserk?

Kafla on the other hand is super strong, but we all know how overpowered and extremely vague potara is so it shouldn't come as some huge surprise and people shouldn't be that angry over it.

[GodVegetto91]

Here's an awesome review on Kale and Caulifla by the highly respectable Laughingstock Media. It seems even HE dislikes the way they are portrayed by Toei, and he backs it up with MANY good points.
https://youtu.be/PKG4I4rde3M

[GodKaio-Ken]

I'm betting they'll be similar to Broly where everyone "supposedly" hates them but they'll be all over the place in games, merchandise, etc. and do incredibly well there.

People like Broly. That's why they brought him back 3-4 times in different movies. It's the same reason they brought back Frieza. Everything is dictated by a character's popularity amongst fans. Kale is a Broly clone and people aren't going to like a Mary sue Broly as much as the original. It doesn't appease the Broly fans and just feels like a cheap way to exploit his popularity without actually bringing him back.

I'd agree with you had you made this post a couple months ago, but luckily TOEI got that stupid shit out of their systems and made Kale into her own likeable character now, so I don't think in the future people will be hating her as a Broly clone, especially since she lost the Broly form.

I also don't really see Kale as a Mary Sue. I can understand the arguments for Caulifla being one but not really Kale.

How has Kale become more likable at all? Being less annoying doesn't mean you've suddenly done something to make people like you. It just means you're annoying them slightly less.

Also why do people need facts to dislike a character? It's all taste...its like saying someone is wrong for not liking ketchup.

Caulifla I don't dislike honestly. I wish she grew slower but oh well.

[Asura]

People like Broly. That's why they brought him back 3-4 times in different movies. It's the same reason they brought back Frieza. Everything is dictated by a character's popularity amongst fans. Kale is a Broly clone and people aren't going to like a Mary sue Broly as much as the original. It doesn't appease the Broly fans and just feels like a cheap way to exploit his popularity without actually bringing him back.

I'd agree with you had you made this post a couple months ago, but luckily TOEI got that stupid shit out of their systems and made Kale into her own likeable character now, so I don't think in the future people will be hating her as a Broly clone, especially since she lost the Broly form.

I also don't really see Kale as a Mary Sue. I can understand the arguments for Caulifla being one but not really Kale.

How has Kale become more likable at all? Being less annoying doesn't mean you've suddenly done something to make people like you. It just means you're annoying them slightly less.

Also why do people need facts to dislike a character? It's all taste...its like saying someone is wrong for not liking ketchup.

Caulifla I don't dislike honestly. I wish she grew slower but oh well.

Being less unlikeable means you've become more likeable, but that's way oversimplifying her character. She's gone from a boring, shy, trope of a character mashed in with Broly references, and now has become her own character who believes in herself and is willing to fight. She's had a lot of positive character development, thus making her likeable.

I dunno what you mean by people needing facts to dislike a character, I never brought up anything like that in my post.