I think feminism is the reason for the overpowered female characters

[Kanious]

This is the biggest bullshit i've heard about DBS in 2017.

There is no SJW crap in DBS, and the female characters has nothing to do with feminism [if it were i would be done with DBS]. There is not a single evidence that the series is being influenced by the "political correctness" bullshit. You are getting the wrong idea.

Just to say, i'm anti-SJW, i disagree a lot with the feminism movement, but... Caulifla and Kale became my favorite characters from DBS, and to me they're my favorite in the entire franchise only after Goku and Vegeta. I see no political correctness crap in them, and i can't understand how do you see this being applied in the anime. It just don't make any sense.

[Majin Jator]

The main characters have reached such a ridiculous level of power that any new character who aspires to be minimally relevant needs to have an equally ridiculous power level or quick and insane gains. I thought this was obvious and easily comprehended by anyone who has watched DB before.

[Timetraveller]

I speak from experience and from someone who grew up watching Toonami in the west. I'd say 90% of the DBZ fans at school were male and most of the people I know watching Super are also male. Do you have any current stats that say the DBS readership/viewership is split 50/50 between both genders?

I'll see your experience and raise you one super-fan wife.

The head-in-the-sand viewpoint that this is an exclusive boys' club is ridonkulous. Girls have been a huge part of this fandom both in the east and the west since forever. I've already outlined the entire readership gender shift in Japan partially spearheaded by Dragon Ball (alongside specifically Saint Seiya). This demographic split remains to this day, being one of the reasons for One Piece's massive, continued success (it appears to all genders of all ages). The most basic search for statistics gets you this one from 2005 referenced in various Wikipedia articles on the subject. Here's another more recent analysis with stats from 2012.

Dragon Ball Super is par for the course, doing all the same things it did before, and then some with regard to its viewership/readership/audience.

I never said it was an exclusive boy's club but my experience may be different from yours. I still don't think the female readership/viewership for Dragonball (in particular Z and Super) are even close to 50%. Out of curiosity does anyone NOT think the majority of DBZ fans are male? Not trying to start a war here.

Toei knows the money's in the merchandise. Female characters = capturing the female audience was my point.

Eiichiro Oda's known for the way he draws women. Almost all of the female characters in the show share the same mold (same body type with revealing designs). It's pretty easy to see which demographic his work is catered to even if there's a large female audience. I'm almost certain he's said this in an interview too.

[Yomi]

Can't even have female characters without it being accused of some ulterior motive; am I the only one who thinks they just exist because Toriyama wanted it?

[HeroR]

Can't even have female characters without it being accused of some ulterior motive; am I the only one who thinks they just exist because Toriyama wanted it?

Too simple.

[Saturnine]

Yeah, so like I said - just because something coincides with current trends in the West, doesn't mean it was caused by those trends, especially considering that DB comes from Japan, where the social atmosphere is altogether different.

Correlation does not imply causation - it's a simple truth that eludes so many.

[Scorpio Kardia]

I mean feminism in Dragon Ball!? The show where: Goku's wife is a housewife whose job is to nag Goku and make him food; Vegeta's wife is loud and easily irritable but since she's smart and good with technology other characters kind of tolerate her; Gohan's wife is a former girl fighter with an attitude turned into housewife and mom as soon as she got married and fell in love; Krillin's wife is a housewife who's only entering the tournament for money (screw wanting to protect your daughter); a dirty old man threatens to rape a female character because she seduced him and therefore he can't control himself; the only female god of destruction (out of 12) can only talk about love and how attractive Goku is; and so on and so on...

Now they introduce a brat who wants to get stronger at all costs and with a short temper (reminds you of someone else?), and they also introduce a character who is always crying about how weak and pathetic she is, and whose sole purpose is be noticed by her senpai. Boy oh boy, we are stepping into dangerous territory here, pretty soon little girls in Japan will start thinking they are worth a damn. I mean what's next a female president!?

You know I always did know that Akira Toriyama did have a feminist agenda. The signs were all there since the start of the series. I mean Goku (a man) getting punched a few times by two girls!? They are turning Goku into a cuck!!!

No but on a more serious note you have to be pretty insecure about yourself to associate Dragon Ball with feminism. Unless this thread was just meant to get a reaction from people, and then I'd say the creator is doing a pretty good job. If it wasn't then I suggest the YouTube comment sections might be more appropriate for this discussion. You'll find a lot of "alpha" bros there certainly willing to share such thoughts (although I think they are mostly like 10 to 13 year old's or kids with really crappy parents, or you know someone with very deep issues).

[BlueBasilisk]

Why wouldn't women want to watch a show with a predominantly male cast? Plenty of guys watch shows with large female casts. And even if you go the merchandising angle, I think merch for cute female characters is just as likely to appeal to a male audience as a female one and vice-versa. Toyotaro said they were getting letters from female fans praising how sexy Nozawa's take on Black was.

[Duo]

Akira Toriyama, truly an icon of feminism.

Far and away the greatest answer. I can't believe people are this upset about a character being strong, nevermind the fact Super Saiyan Ikari was ten times more absurd.

[MKCSTEALTH]

I think it had to do more with marketing and merchandising over feminism. Female Saiyans kind of blew up thanks to Heroes, and getting the opportunity to see them in the canon universe has been a big opportunity. Not only Kale, Caulifla, and Kefla, but any others we see in a future arc.

As for Ribrianne, she's a parody of the magical girl anime. I don't think she's really gained as much traction as the Saiyan girls have. I don't think she's even gotten a figure announced yet

[gofishus]

Nah, Toriyama was making strong independent female characters since the beginning. In 1980s Japan where feminism was / is nonexistent, he was a pioneer.

Bulma, Chi-chi, 18, Videl, Launch, Pan - all these female characters are strong willed and independent. The only female I can think about that was a stereotypical 'girly girl' is Marron from filler and Bulla in GT and neither of them are canon (well Bulla is but not her adult form).
Caulifla just follows the tradition and I guess Kale's personality is meant to contrast with Caulifla's.

[VegettoEX]

Nah, Toriyama was making strong independent female characters since the beginning. In 1980s Japan where feminism was / is nonexistent, he was a pioneer.

I... really wouldn't go that far. In the same series, the vast majority of these women either got written out entirely or were ultimately relegated to "wife" at best or "educated-minded mother" at worst.

[iamthelaw7]

I read an article that Weekly Shonen Jump revealed that 50% of their subscribers were women in 2012. Anime producers noticed this trend and wanted to cater more to the female audience. So maybe dragon ball wanted to cater more to the female audience too and incorporate more female fighters. People like strong female roles, even guys too, game of thrones is a good example. And in something that is typically male dominated, this probably incorporates showing that the girls can compete with the boys. Before this arc, DBS did a good job with Bulma as a strong female role, showing how her intelligence can add key contributions to the plot. She is also strong willed, is one of the few people that can get through to Goku and Vegeta, is good to her family, etc. She's fearless to the point that she went up and slapped Beerus, and even Beerus doesn't want to deal with her strong will anymore. Goku, Vegeta and Beerus all have shown that they respect her intelligence.

I think the idea of the first female super saiyans was generally a great idea. I think the biggest issue was the writing behind their power - it seemed rushed, lacked creativity etc. Which is unfortunate, too bad they didn't invest more writing into this, but hindsight has 20/20 vision. But there is still lots of time to develop them as a characters though and make them grow on people.

Caulifla acts like a saiyan - she loves to fight, is cocky and proud. Her personality fits in well, but like I said they rushed her powerups with the back tingles etc., which is unfortunate. Kale doesn't act like a saiyan at all. She is quiet and soft and then goes berserker, and I think they wanted to show that contrast to make her seem unique. I think her berserker state was meant to push some stereotypes of females - it's insanely muscly, manly, etc. But because her berserker state screams Broly, fan service enters into peoples' minds, which is also unfortunate for her character.

I understand why people don't like their writing. The rate at which they increase their power seems too rushed, but look at how many other characters were rushed into relevancy in this arc so they can fight along side Goku and Vegeta. I also think the fact that they are new and don't have loyal fanbases like Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan is a factor. Gohan just returned to fighting, trained with Piccolo for a few hours and now all of sudden can compete with SSB. But people are more willing to jump forward and defend that because he has a loyal and established fanbase, who are more willing to overlook the fact if his character receives bad writing. Goku and Vegeta visiting Planet Sadala might do a lot for the U6 saiyans.

I haven't seen anything to suggest that Ribrianne is meant to be a strong female role. Her wish most importantly showed me that I don't think she is meant to be a strong protagonist in this arc. Maybe it would best to either exhaust her time as a gag or actually try to make her a strong female character that will try to lead U2. She seems incredibly stagnant at this point, with too much screen time focused on a gag.

[MaskedRider]

I understand injecting politics into entertainment is the last thing people like you and me want OP unless it is supposed to be thought provoking such as Devilman's anti-war message but Kale, Caulifla and Ribrianne are NOT what you are making them out to be.

kale and Caulifla are Saiyans, of course they are going to be strong, not only that but they also come from a universe who is above U7 in the mortal ranking level while also having different evolution than Saiyans in their twin universe so its up to you to buy that explanation, I do. The same goes for Ribrianne, her universe is maybe above U6 in the mortal ranking level and can explain her strength.

I mean feminism in Dragon Ball!? The show where: Goku's wife is a housewife whose job is to nag Goku and make him food; Vegeta's wife is loud and easily irritable but since she's smart and good with technology other characters kind of tolerate her; Gohan's wife is a former girl fighter with an attitude turned into housewife and mom as soon as she got married and fell in love; Krillin's wife is a housewife who's only entering the tournament for money (screw wanting to protect your daughter); a dirty old man threatens to rape a female character because she seduced him and therefore he can't control himself; the only female god of destruction (out of 12) can only talk about love and how attractive Goku is; and so on and so on...

None of these is necessarily anti-feminist with the exception of Roshi and 18's reasoning to enter tournament about universal survival is certainly a poor one but I believe she does care while not explicitly stating it. I understand being a housewife is not ideal for characters but being in that role doesn't exclusively mean you can't use these characters if the story ever called for them such as when ChiChi attempted to fight in Dead Zone or Lord Slug. Let's bring an outside example - Lisa Lisa from JoJo who got married and had a baby but took it upon herself to avenge her husband's murder with her own strength and became the respected master of the art of hamon. Goku and Vegeta don't tolerate their wives because they are smart with technology or make food, an aspect as to why they love them its because they are strong willed. You can also see ChiChi and Bulma care much for their husbands too like when ChiChi ran toward Goku to make sure he was okay in the tournament with U6 and Bulma freaking out over Vegeta, her husband, Trunks, her son, and Goku, her friend, all in bad conditions; the love and care is returned by all parties but not shown in the most heterosexual romcom way people expect it to - this is Dragon Ball after all. Its not like Vegeta and Goku ignore them, its whack compared to reality but Goku does become a farmer in respect to ChiChi wanting Goku to develop a work ethic and career while Vegeta is constantly making sure Bulma is safe and satisfied in whatever regard; not because she isn't capable but its just basic love of wanting the best for your partner. Sure ChiChi nagged Goku but she is right to in addition to having Gohan and Goten study because they can't always rely on having money given to them - ChiChi is being a responsible parent whether people like that or not (Though I personally agree it can be overwhelming when the setting has the world in danger). Videl is whatever you make of her, I don't see what is wrong with her, she was pregnant in BoG, taking care of Pan in RoF and there is no reason to bring her in the tournament, fight with Black or Tournament of Power. Its not like she lost everything fighting, its just nothing to really bring it out unless they decided to cut away to Earth and there was a threat going on during the tournament that would allow Earthlings such as Yamcha, Satan, Bulma, ChiChi and Videl to team up and fight them off. Also screw that noise about Heles being attracted to beauty being bad, I'm on the same boat with her and love what she loves about what is beautiful and attractive thanks to artists like Hirohiko Araki or Yoshitaka Amano.

Oh and Mai. While still being a love interest to Trunks she does save him and attempted to do SOMETHING despite her human power against a Kai in a Sayain's body TWICE. It may not be the ideal but I'll take it instead of her jumping in the air and fighting Black herself in making Super even more of a laughing stock than it already is. I don't know, I never saw being a housewife or being in love as anti-feminist. I REALLY don't want to bring anecdotes in here but the women in my life don't mind the housewife life and they have careers too, its not like they are waiting for "prince charming" either.

[RedHeat]

The Dragon Ball community never stops to amaze me, for better or worst lmao.


No, if anything, sexism has roots in Dragon Ball. It was only recently in the history of DB that a big focus has been put on females characters.

[Faisal Shourov]

Feminism is cancerous and Japan isn't stupid enough to adopt this ideology, so don't fear unnecessarily. Super is introducing new female characters for fanservice only. Diversifying the cast has no relation to diversifying for the sake of politics. Tons of shonen anime/manga have strong female characters as well, the strongest character in entire Naruto series is a female.

[VegettoEX]

Feminism is cancerous and Japan isn't stupid enough to adopt this ideology

This statement is not reflective of Kanzenshuu as a website and is at odds with the ideals and mission of its community.

[sintzu]

sexism has roots in Dragon Ball.

How so ?

Feminism is cancerous and Japan isn't stupid enough to adopt this ideology

This statement is not reflective of Kanzenshuu as a website and is at odds with the ideals and mission of its community.

Feminism at its basic core is fighting for women's rights which is a great thing, I think we can all agree on that. But we can also agree or at least assume that the feminism Faisal is talking about isn't that at all, it's the type that goes after anyone with different viewes and calls them every name in the book. We can probably agree that feminism wasn't established to do that but has been taken advantage of in order to push an agenda that doesn't have much to do with women rights anymore.

[RedHeat]

sexism has roots in Dragon Ball.

How so ?

Feminism is cancerous and Japan isn't stupid enough to adopt this ideology

This statement is not reflective of Kanzenshuu as a website and is at odds with the ideals and mission of its community.

Feminism at its basic core is fighting for women's rights which is a great thing, I think we can all agree on that. But we can also agree or at least assume that the feminism Faisal is talking about isn't that at all, it's the type that goes after anyone with different viewes and calls them every name in the book. We can probably agree that feminism wasn't established to do that but has been taken advantage of in order to push an agenda that doesn't have much to do with women rights anymore.

There's a reason why it's called a "sausage fest"-- barely any female characters that have been introduced and none of them have had any prime roles (except maybe ChiChi, but she's just the comic relief these days). An argument can be made for 18, but she's been a non-character so far in Super.

[sintzu]

There's a reason why it's called a "sausage fest"-- barely any female characters that have been introduced and none of them have had any prime roles.

(except maybe ChiChi, but she's just the comic relief these days). An argument can be made for 18, but she's been a non-character so far in Super.

That doesn't make DB or Toriyama sexist. Sexist is supposed to be used against people who actually HATE women, not someone who doesn't write them in his kids' story because he most likely doesn't know how. Throwing that word around is exactly why Feminists have the bad reputation they have.

Another argument can be made for Launch, Bulma, Vedil...with the 2 you mentioned that's 5 characters so...what's the problem ? Although there are clearly femlae characters in the original manga but even if there wasn't, why does there need to be ? why does DB or any other work have to cater to EVERYONE ? There are plenty of groups that DB doesn't cater to so does that mean Toriyama is against them as well ? when you try to satisfy everyone, you satisfy no one. What Toriyama did and what every other good author does is target one group or demographic and make the best story around it.