Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

[sintzu]

No, fuck no. Because when and if people don't like the character, people will call you a sexist misogynist asshole or if Toriyama doesn't write the character like people want him to, they will call him a sexiest misogynist asshole.



Keep gender politics out of dragon ball, lets go back to big muscular aliens beating the crap out of each other. Leave that stuff for Oda.

You're going to be called that regardless of what you do. If you don't have them you're called that, if you don't do them how they want you're called that, if fans like or hate them they're called that.

[Torturephile]

It's undeniable Dragon Ball is quite behind the curve in female exposure. No, I don't want it to be 'progressive' as Buzzfeed wants. However for modern anime we had quite a few primary female antagonists in many mainstream shows.

Don't read below if you haven't caught upto One Piece, if you're following the show

In the current arc Luffy will soon be fighting Big Mom, who has been a pretty great character honestly. I love her backstory and her unique sinister personality (and her powers too). I am finally again interested in One Piece after the drag Dressrosa Arc. After seeing her I believe a shonen anime can make decent female antagonist if they want (not like the garbage named Kaguya we had in Naruto)

Do you want to see a primary female antagonist, as Big Mom was? If so what and how do you expect her to be?

A lot of people got outraged when the whole videl spopovich thing happened. Same thing would happen if vegeta beat up some chick brutally.

17 beat the absolute crap out of Vikal, yet I didn't see any outrage

Because 17 simply beat up Vikal in a speedy manner and it was shown from a distance, and went for a quick knockout. Spopovich kept beating up Videl out of cold blood despite he could have ended it quickly. Also, that beatdown was shown in detail, and Videl was bleeding and crying at the end of the "fight".

[TheDipDap1234]

Maybe Marcarita..

[TheMikado]

So let's talk about the proper way to do a character versus the incorrect way.

A character, when being developed typically needs to have particular aspects for a specific reason.
It's interested because I was just reading about the Green Hornet production and the ethnicity of Kato, etc.

Basically the question becomes if you decide to make a character of a specific type for whatever reason the question should be why? What requirement are you trying to full-fill?

The qualities of a good antagonist are similar to a good protagonist so I will once again cite Toriyama's style and contrast it with how it is used currently.

1) Bulma - as a protagonist she has a motive. Finding a boyfriend with the Dragonballs. It is a defining aspect of her personality. However further she drives the story forward in multiple ways by her being uniquely female.
2) Chichi/Videl - Love interests, this has become their primary role. However their secondary role which was a "feminine" role was to have a doting and over protective father figure in the "typical" Father/daughter relationship.
Basically these characters, through Toriyama's writing, by virtual of being female were able to both move the plot forward while also not being excluded from being of value. At least not until they paired up...

A good female character/ protagonist or antagonist/ should not be interchangeably male.

As it stands now you could change one or both Kale and Caulifa to males and it would change the plot and overall story very little. Thus fair them being uniquely females adds absolutely nothing to the story.

In the case of One Piece, Big Mom both physically speaks the stresses of female standards with even her size as a youth coming into play. She also takes on the unfair standards of aging for women. Further her power imbues life into objects, essentially a "mother" figure. Something solely and uniquely female. Essentially her character, concept, and powers are attune to her gender and reflect it. The character overall, whether likable or not can be considered well conceived. Her various attributes play off of one another to develop a whole character where the parts are not easily interchangeable.

[Lionel]

We sort of already witnessed something like this in the form of a co-antagonist, i.e Future #18. Granted it's not quite the same as the pivotal antagonist being female. In fact, the only other female villain to appear in canon was Colonel Violet and her screentime literally amounted to one panel.

If the writing was good and the character is interesting then I don't see why not. I personally think it's going to be hard to top Freeza and Black/Zamasu, but anything is possible.

[TheMikado]

Even better we have Towa. She's an incredible antagonist.

She literally creates a Super being and becomes infatuated with her own creation that she marries and has a child with him.
She often finds herself at odds with him and when she deems him a failure she seeks to "fix" him rather than accept him as an independent being.

Ironically she reminds me of an evil Bulma, she is a brilliant scientist who builds her "dream" husband and then seeks to "fix" him when things between them begin to fall apart. It's an incredibly layered story to be honest with the fights being merely an aspect of overall story rather than "the" story.

[Grimlock]

Yes. I think a female antagonist would be cool in the series. Mainly if we're talking about Towa, of course. But we really need more female characters, and some of them being villains.

[TheMikado]

Well Android 21 also looks interesting and may have a well developed back story so that should be cool.

[GodKaio-Ken]

I didn't say japanese fans would care. Western fans care a lot more about that type of stuff.

DBS isn't made for Western audience, Toei doesn't care much about what people outside Japan think. Also there was never any outrage, One Piece and Naruto have been out there for 20 years and nothing happened with Naruto punched Kaguya or Sasuke stabbed Sakura. Naruto is reasonably popular in the West as well.

This is not true. Dragon Ball is a franchise that depends on it's worldwide appeal to sell merchandise.

Obviously Japanese audience is #1 but to say they don't care about others is flat out wrong.

[Totamo]

No, fuck no. Because when and if people don't like the character, people will call you a sexist misogynist asshole or if Toriyama doesn't write the character like people want him to, they will call him a sexiest misogynist asshole.



Keep gender politics out of dragon ball, lets go back to big muscular aliens beating the crap out of each other. Leave that stuff for Oda.

You're going to be called that regardless of what you do. If you don't have them you're called that, if you don't do them how they want you're called that, if fans like or hate them they're called that.

At least it wasn't in my face back then, I can't even go on twitter right now because of people arguing about why people really hate these characters. It angers me because I use dragon ball to get away from that. Everything else in America has been politicized, why do hell does this have to be?



If female characters in Super bring this nonsense with them, then fuck all of that. More buff dudes to punch is the way to go. Dragon ball was successful before this "diversity" Crap, it will be successful without this diversity crap. Anyone got a problem can go read fanfiction for all I care.


I'm sorry for my aggression but I'm just so sick of my entertainment being used for this same stupid nonsense everywhere to the point now I question every decision as a propaganda tool. Thank goodness Toriyama doesn't do this, too bad some of this fanbase does.


Its the only reason I hope that something bad happens to these female saiyans that it drives them all away from the show and i hate that I have that hope. These people are literally killing dragon ball for me right now.

[Faisal Shourov]

Is it even bad if I marathon the whole arc in a few days ?

Yes, it's still bad. I dropped the anime back in February 2015, never looked back (I even remember the month, I was that frustrated). If you keep watching the anime you will lose interest in the show, binge or not. Dressrosa Arc was a complete disaster. It's slow even in the manga too, the anime made it much worse. You see why One Piece ratings are down yet Sazae San keep pulling 11.0? Dressrosa has damaged the show a lot.

[Lord Beerus]

Why not? I've never taken gender into consideration in the first place when it comes to to type of villains that Dragon Ball has/had. I just normally want to be entertained by them. So more female major antagonist is certainly something I would welcome, as long as their character is handled properly with in the narrative. But Dragon Ball shouldn't be in a rush or feel obliged to do it.

[BlueVegerot]

In episode 100, Napapa was holding up Kale and there were quite a bit of people on twitter angry about that and talking about "rape vibes". In a tournament for survival. I doubt toriyama wants to open that pandora's box.

[Faisal Shourov]

In episode 100, Napapa was holding up Kale and there were quite a bit of people on twitter angry about that and talking about "rape vibes". In a tournament for survival. I doubt toriyama wants to open that pandora's box.

If it's public outrage you're worried about, vast majority of western audience of dragon ball is male, and the tiny female audience that exists aren't radical feminists (they wouldn't be able to watch the show for 500 episodes since it's extremely male-centric). I doubt vast majority of feminists even know about DBS. Even if they did, it doesn't matter in the slightest. It didn't matter for Naruto, it didn't matter for One Piece. Twitter and tumblr has no influence on anime production

[Meshack]

No, fuck no. Because when and if people don't like the character, people will call you a sexist misogynist asshole or if Toriyama doesn't write the character like people want him to, they will call him a sexiest misogynist asshole.



Keep gender politics out of dragon ball, lets go back to big muscular aliens beating the crap out of each other. Leave that stuff for Oda.

It’s not about “politics.” It’s about wanting a female antagonist in the series. You can have a female antagonist without it being connected to politics

[Meshack]

In episode 100, Napapa was holding up Kale and there were quite a bit of people on twitter angry about that and talking about "rape vibes". In a tournament for survival. I doubt toriyama wants to open that pandora's box.

Kale is a female of a warrior race. Kale loves to fight. There’s no problem with it

[Majin Jator]

A good female character/ protagonist or antagonist/ should not be interchangeably male.

As it stands now you could change one or both Kale and Caulifa to males and it would change the plot and overall story very little. Thus fair them being uniquely females adds absolutely nothing to the story. .

I'm not sure I'm getting your point here (honestly, not trying to be sarcastic). As I read it it seems like all characters must be males by default unless their feminity plays a part. If you mean that (again, I'm not sure) then I beg to differ, I'm ok with characters being females just because females exist and it would be weird not to have any new female character, and I'm ok too with the lack of "feminine" stereotypes. I actually like how the rest of the cast goes along with it without comments like "I don't want to fight a girl" or "you fight well..for a woman!" or any of that crap. I believe that actually does a better job standarizing female roles (even if that's not the intention, as we stablished in another post) than taking the CW's show route, with the characters pointing out how feminist is everything they do.

[Miracles]

It really doesn't matter the gender. As long as they are a good villain.

[DragonBallFoodie]

I wouldn't really mind. I'm thinking something like Princess Snake in early DBZ.

But if her being female is a major part of it (feminine wiles, seduction, angry wives beating her ass - I would actually like this part) then it would risk incurring flak from feminists. It's a catch-22 situation that maybe the franchise should avoid.

[pacz360]

No, fuck no. Because when and if people don't like the character, people will call you a sexist misogynist asshole or if Toriyama doesn't write the character like people want him to, they will call him a sexiest misogynist asshole.



Keep gender politics out of dragon ball, lets go back to big muscular aliens beating the crap out of each other. Leave that stuff for Oda.

Agreed